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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #7832
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    RuMan wrote: »
    Ur the one ranting about "depravity" and sounding like a Priest from the 1950's!

    I'll be happy if our top 2 outhalfs are selected based on form on the rugby field rather then who sent the worst private messages. !

    You haven't a clue RU.. It'll never be a question of the best 2 outhalves if Jackson is no. 2. There'll be marches outside the Aviva, sponsors will pull the plug. Money ffs. A huge majority don't want him near the Ulster or Irish team. He's dispensable.

    I'll tell you one thing a priest from the 1950s would buy and sell you, you haven't a clue about the bigger picture of team selection.


  • #7833
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    You haven't a clue RU.. It'll never be a question of the best 2 outhalves if Jackson is no. 2. There'll be marches outside the Aviva, sponsors will pull the plug. Money ffs. A huge majority don't want him near the Ulster or Irish team. He's dispensable.

    I'll tell you one thing a priest from the 1950s would buy and sell you, you haven't a clue about the bigger picture of team selection.

    I know all about employment Law father


  • #7834
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    You haven't a clue RU.. It'll never be a question of the best 2 outhalves if Jackson is no. 2. There'll be marches outside the Aviva, sponsors will pull the plug. Money ffs. A huge majority don't want him near the Ulster or Irish team. He's dispensable.

    I'll tell you one thing a priest from the 1950s would buy and sell you, you haven't a clue about the bigger picture of team selection.

    Where is there any proof of this?

    The men were put through the wringer and they were innocent of the charges. I would say there is a good deal of sympathy for them atm.


  • #7835
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    'Boundaries of bantering' are set by those bantering. That is why you are blissfully unaware and think those around you are paragons of virtue.

    People since Socrates have been decrying the crassness of youth. That is what all involved in this sorry shambles are, young people who will turn out fine, just like the majority of us.

    I am in my mid 50's. Why that is important I know not.

    If your in your mid 50s Francie, jaysus you're a lost cause:D I wouldn't agree with your opinion but that's ok, you were forthright and honest.

    I'm 42, don't want to sound boastful but trained lots of young men. I feel what i outline is the way to go. It's different times today.

    I don't want to vilify the chaps but you have to be careful. I don't want Paddy Jackson's career to end for Ireland, but it will. And if the lads are truly innocent it's a travesty.


  • #7836
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Where is there any proof of this?

    The men were put through the wringer and they were innocent of the charges. I would say there is a good deal of sympathy for them atm.

    Well Ulster didn't want to play on Easter Sunday v Munster in 2012 due to their 'religious ethos'. Also women follow rugby maybe as much as gaa. Most polls show large percentages of women, especially, and there'll be men too who don't want them to play for Ulster and Ireland. Exeter or France.


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  • #7837
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Sure, and some people can get very upset/hysterical after sex and it does mean they were raped.

    So what?.

    Previous posters had suggested that her being hysterical made it likely that she was raped.

    All freshpopcorn was doing was saying that's not necessarily the case based on experience. Fair point IMO, but you may not have seen the previous posts?


  • #7838
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    If your in your mid 50s Francie, jaysus you're a lost cause:D I wouldn't agree with your opinion but that's ok, you were forthright and honest.

    I'm 42, don't want to sound boastful but trained lots of young men. I feel what i outline is the way to go. It's different times today.

    I don't want to vilify the chaps but you have to be careful. I don't want Paddy Jackson's career to end for Ireland, but it will. And if the lads are truly innocent it's a travesty.

    Ever hear of a fella called Tiger Woods. I watched him all evening play averagely and have the entire focus on him. Sponsored up and the crowds loving him.

    Would Tiger's previous behaviour(which he was manifestly and unequivocally guilty of) fit in with your moral code? Yet....


    * As regards my age, I have always tended to live and let live. I don't try and morally control people. Has worked for me so far. My advice to a 42 yr old. Chill out.


  • #7839
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Off here lads. Nice debating.

    Take care.


  • #7840
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ever hear of a fella called Tiger Woods. I watched him all evening play averagely and have the entire focus on him. Sponsored up and the crowds loving him.

    Would Tiger's previous behaviour(which he was manifestly and unequivocally guilty of) fit in with your moral code? Yet....


    * As regards my age, I have always tended to live and let live. I don't try and morally control people. Has worked for me so far. My advice to a 42 yr old. Chill out.

    Tiger lost millions in sponsorship (and the only thing he was guilty of was cheating on his wife).

    He has also undergone counselling to help with his addiction and he really hasn't been the same player since. He is really just infamous now.


  • #7841
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,212 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Your more worked up and upset than me. Will you need counselling when 'Jacko' never plays again for Ireland?

    Ryle Nugent 'and now coming on for the injured Sexton we have Paddy Jackson!! Listen to the noise in the stadium! Paddy hasn't played in 2 and a half years since he stared on the Tour to South Africa, which Ireland lost, South Africa were beaten subsequently in the autumn of 2016 by Italy'.

    Never fear Jacko's here!! Apparent from all the other little issues he's going to be very rusty. I think Carberry, Ross Byrne and even Ian Keatley are better bets for the no. 2 role to Sexton.

    Ryle Nugent. I thought RTE lost the rights? Is he moving to TV3 or Sky?

    The Boks in SA is a different team to the Boks away. Also they've in a steady decline for the past couple of years losing players to the NH constantly.

    Byrne has a ways to go to get in the Irish squad. It'll probably take a few injuries. He's third choice at Leinster. Should move to another province. Keatley is just too up and down to be regular at test level. Once again, it'll probably take a few injuries.


    ****. Sorry. Forgot this wasn't the rugby forum.


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  • #7842
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ever hear of a fella called Tiger Woods. I watched him all evening play averagely and have the entire focus on him. Sponsored up and the crowds loving him.

    Would Tiger's previous behaviour(which he was manifestly and unequivocally guilty of) fit in with your moral code? Yet....


    * As regards my age, I have always tended to live and let live. I don't try and morally control people. Has worked for me so far. My advice to a 42 yr old. Chill out.

    Ah Francie. You disappoint me.. Tiger was never accused of rape :D Very different sports. You don't have a team ethos to protect.

    #teamofus

    Francie rest assured i'm relaxed, i guarantee you'd enjoy a few pints with me.. You wouldn't end up in a threesome with me though :D Maybe you'd get lucky yourself! Love lads on the net given advice to lads they don't know.

    You can have great craic and respect all.

    'Morally control people'. No! Try and prevent cases like the Belfast Rape Case and protect the young..Sometimes morality comes into that Francie.


  • #7843
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Ryle Nugent. I thought RTE lost the rights? Is he moving to TV3 or Sky?

    The Boks in SA is a different team to the Boks away. Also they've in a steady decline for the past couple of years losing players to the NH constantly.

    Byrne has a ways to go to get in the Irish squad. It'll probably take a few injuries. He's third choice at Leinster. Should move to another province. Keatley is just too up and down to be regular at test level. Once again, it'll probably take a few injuries.


    ****. Sorry. Forgot this wasn't the rugby forum.

    Agreed. It was a bit of a jokey post. I couldn't think of any commentator off the top of my head who'd do justice to Jacko's entry.


  • #7844
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jm08 wrote: »
    Tiger lost millions in sponsorship (and the only thing he was guilty of was cheating on his wife).

    He has also undergone counselling to help with his addiction and he really hasn't been the same player since. He is really just infamous now.

    You think Tiger isn't making a living from golf?

    These guys are only guilty of offending a few conservative holier than I moralisers. Or have I missed something?


  • #7845
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Ah Francie. You disappoint me.. Tiger was never accused of rape :D Very different sports. You don't have a team ethos to protect.

    #teamofus

    Francie rest assured i'm relaxed, i guarantee you'd enjoy a few pints with me.. You wouldn't end up in a threesome with me though :D Maybe you'd get lucky yourself! Love lads on the net given advice to lads they don't know.

    You can have great craic and respect all.

    'Morally control people'. No! Try and prevent cases like the Belfast Rape Case and protect the young..Sometimes morality comes into that Francie.

    Was Tiger respecting women when he was getting his jollies?

    Where are all the defenders of womankind on the golf courses?

    Stopping banter isn't going to stop rape. Which this case was not.


  • #7846
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    RuMan wrote: »
    I know all about employment Law father

    Jesus you are deluded.. go get a paternity test.

    Jacko will not play again for Ireland. Apart from the commercial, it won't be worth the hassle.

    What planet are you currently living on? Pluto, Jupiter, Uranus?


  • #7847
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Was Tiger respecting women when he was getting his jollies?

    Where are all the defenders of womankind on the golf courses?

    Stopping banter isn't going to stop rape. Which this case was not.

    This is a rape case though Francie. Do you understand? The stigma, even for the innocent is always there.

    Can you see Jackson play for Ireland?


  • #7848
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Over and out, honestly. Any of us can only state our points so many times. Boring and stale after that.


  • #7849
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    This is a rape case though Francie. Do you understand? The stigma, even for the innocent is always there.

    Can you see Jackson play for Ireland?

    You seem delighted about that.

    From what I have heard, the PSNI recommendation, the BBC naming them before charge, I genuinely hope that these guys never have to worry about a wage check again.
    And I hope they sue a couple of people who find it so easy to insinuate they raped somebody.

    Playing for Ireland would be a bonus after that. The slowness of the IRFU to react suggests to me that they will not be strongarmed by the hysterical mob antics.


  • #7850
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You think Tiger isn't making a living from golf?

    These guys are only guilty of offending a few conservative holier than I moralisers. Or have I missed something?

    Yea, I think you are missing something. Tiger is self employed, the lads are not and the people who employ them are heavily reliant on sponorship.

    These are the losses that Tiger suffered for his infidelities.
    In the days and months following Woods' admission of multiple infidelities, several companies re-evaluated their relationships with him. Accenture, AT&T, Gatorade and General Motors completely ended their sponsorship deals, while Gillette suspended advertising featuring Woods.[95][238][239] TAG Heuer dropped Woods from advertising in December 2009 and officially ended their deal when his contract expired in August 2011.[95][240] Golf Digest suspended Woods' monthly column beginning with the February 2010 issue.[241] In contrast, Nike continued to support Woods, as did Electronic Arts, which was working with Woods on the game Tiger Woods PGA Tour Online.[242] A December 2009 study estimated the shareholder loss caused by Woods' affairs to be between $5 billion and $12 billion.[243]

    Tiger checked into a clinic to cure his sex addiction.

    Now, back in Belfast we know of PJ was in a threesome on the Monday night with Olding and on the Tuesday night with McIlroy. Then there is the incredible amounts of alcohol they were putting away.

    Not a great lifestyle for wood be role models.


  • #7851
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    I'll message you in November Francie and we will see.

    Please differentiate between wanting young innocent men to play but that being made impossible, in my opinion by the overall situation.


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  • #7852
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jm08 wrote: »
    Yea, I think you are missing something. Tiger is self employed, the lads are not and the people who employ them are heavily reliant on sponorship.

    These are the losses that Tiger suffered for his infidelities.



    Tiger checked into a clinic to cure his sex addition.

    Now, back in Belfast we know of PJ was in a threesome on the Monday night with Olding and on the Tuesday night with McIlroy. Then there is the incredible amounts of alcohol they were putting away.

    Not a great lifestyle for wood be role models.

    Of course he lost money. He was GUILTY.

    The lads in Belfast are not guilty of rape.
    They are guilty of a bit of lewd banter.


  • #7853
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Think Tiger was the one who got raped in that relationship.

    Has anyone seen the divorce settlement . Holy Christ._.


  • #7854
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,661 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Agreed. It was a bit of a jokey post. I couldn't think of any commentator off the top of my head who'd do justice to Jacko's entry.

    Ryle Nugent has left RTE-he was always seen as 'the rugby guy'-who did everything to hold onto the tv rights...then lost them. After that, I think RTE were like 'whats the point of keeping this guy on?' So was quietly shoved.
    TV3 have the rights now-but I couldn't name a single presenter of sports on their channel.

    I think it would be very difficult for a sports commentator to comment on the games if PJ and Olding returned. International sports teams tend to be under stricter supervision when compared to, say, local clubs like GAA or whatever.


  • #7855
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RabbleRouser2k wrote: »
    Ryle Nugent has left RTE-he was always seen as 'the rugby guy'-who did everything to hold onto the tv rights...then lost them. After that, I think RTE were like 'whats the point of keeping this guy on?' So was quietly shoved.
    TV3 have the rights now-but I couldn't name a single presenter of sports on their channel.

    I think it would be very difficult for a sports commentator to comment on the games if PJ and Olding returned. International sports teams tend to be under stricter supervision when compared to, say, local clubs like GAA or whatever.

    Why would it be difficult?

    Commentators commentate on games all the time where 'stars' have behaved badly.
    And that is all these guys have done.


  • #7856
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,661 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why would it be difficult?

    Commentators commentate on games all the time where 'stars' have behaved badly.
    And that is all these guys have done.

    Generally speaking, rape cases-even with an acquittal, can make people uncomfortable. (Unfortunate for the guy who knows he is as innocent as you or I of such a crime).
    Most other behaviours, even Tiger Woods affairs and drug addiction, has been better received because the acts were consensual. He lost a lot of sponsors, however, and his EA games deal was ended.

    Even Ched Evans, after an acquittal, has still had problems too. And he did not get justice the first time.

    Considering how heated the Jackson and Olding case got (via media coverage and the protests)-it would be very difficult. Woods didn't get that sort of reception, Evans did-and still has a hostility from certain media folks.

    It's unfortunate-and PJ and Olding's 'regret' of the night wasn't just because of any apparent upset to the complainant. They knew that it was potentially the end of their Irish playing career.


  • #7857
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Of course he lost money. He was GUILTY.

    The lads in Belfast are not guilty of rape.
    They are guilty of a bit of lewd banter.

    The only thing that Tiger was guilty of was a lifestyle that featured multiple sexual partners. He didn't even send a few lewd texts that objectified his sexual partners. In your reckoning, it was no ones business what he got up to, yet most of his sponsors dropped him like a hot potato. Hard to believe they would do that unless they felt that there was a problem with his lifestyle and not his golf.

    You think Kingspan or Vodafone are going to be happy to see their logos displayed on their chests bearing in mind the lifestyle choices of the pair (multiple sexual partners fueled by excessive alcohol intake).


  • #7858
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Personal morals. A lot of the so called 'alternative' lifestyles you wouldn't see animals behave like that. A lot of it is depravity. F*cking eadgits thinking they're pornstars and probably not enjoying it as much as one on one sex.

    Probably? Hmm sound like ur trying and failing to convince urself there


  • #7859
    sightband
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 670 ✭✭✭sightband


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    F*cking eadgits thinking they're pornstars and probably not eeadgitnjoying it as much as one on one sex.

    I know there’s probably not a definite oxford dictionary for ‘eejit’...but what the f*ck is ‘eadgit’ if that’s what it’s supposed to be?


  • #7860
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Yeah, so much so that they tell their best friends, end up making a complaint to the police, then in a witness stand for 8 days getting aggressively questioned by barristers on the most intimate details of their lives in a public court setting.

    Sounds legit.

    And apparently the girl who disapproved of the other girls being "slutty" and is in photos getting ready to leave then not only takes part in a threesome but is the sole instigator of it.


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  • #7861
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    And apparently the girl who disapproved of the other girls being "slutty" and is in photos getting ready to leave then not only takes part in a threesome but is the sole instigator of it.

    Yep. Looking more and more likely that the PSNI didn't have any problems here.


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