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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #7742
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    RuMan wrote: »
    Consensual acts and private messages. Nothing to do with you

    Nor you, nor anyone else in the thread, and yet here we all are.


  • #7743
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    The whatsapp/text messages show a lack of character in some of the defendants. It illustrates that they live in a sports group bubble, with exaggerated opinions of their importance and a sense of entitlement. I'm sick listening to this 'lads banter' BS. If this type of thinking, using others, degrading them becomes common place, society will suffer the consequences of men who don't know how to behave in a group, adhere to pack mentality, and in effect are cowards on their own.

    Stuart Olding is coming out far better than Jackson out of this and appears to have realised that while the sexual behaviour may have been consensual his attitude to the night's behaviour was totally wrong.

    As regards the charge or rape, the accused were found not guilty. Are their problems with the process, yes. To go over old ground again, the excessive amount of time on the stand and questioning of the complainant, the NI system of naming the accused.

    To conclude, better education on consent, communication, respect, equality among females and males. Drink Awareness for all. Stay with good friends when out if possible.

    If you're a sports person representing, county, province and country you have to be especially aware of your actions. Also online, as like it or not, you are representing a section of population. You spend time coaching kids and are in the role model status. That's the price of fame and achievement, and it's et off by many positive effects on your lifestyle, endorsements, ability to play infront of thousands of people, making your hobby your job, ability to find work after your career ends etc.

    Really, if they had a WhatsApp conversation in there discussing global warming would that show deep character and a sense of purpose?

    Or would you take it as a snapshot and base judgement on a more comprehensive pool of information?


  • #7744
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    There were four men on trial and if you were one of them you wouldnt be complaining about their accuser being asked questions.

    If it took four weeks of questioning the woman then so be it, her claim has cost Jackson and Olding their reputations, their careers, their families have been through the mill, they have legal bills of thousands of pounds to pay.

    As a sportsperson you do not have to be aware of your actions in the privacy of your own home, this is not part of any employment contract you sign. There is nothing illegal about consensual threesomes, its no one elses business but your own and if anyone is bothered by that they need to spice up their own sex lives.


  • #7745
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tretorn wrote: »
    I think facebook and social media and the wanting to have attention have a lot to do with what happened.

    Some young women are drama queens, they like nothing more than being the centre of attention and making a sensational rape accusation against three well known rugby players is definitely going to get you omg, hugs hun and so on and so forth. You get to like the attention and the more outlandish the claim is, ie three rugby ****ing players, reduced to two shortly afterwards, men arriving in rooms masturbating and totally naked, forced oral sex while someone elses hand is forced completely inside you. It has all the hallmarks of a badly written book describing a rape, the only problem is the book hasnt been proof read for inconsistencies.

    That's pure speculation. Where's your proof that a majority of young women behave like this?

    And if you have proof for that how can you be certain this individual girl acted like this?

    What happened that night is more than likely a grey area for all parties, with differing views of what happened. Very disingenuous to suggest the girl planned it.


  • #7746
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    jm08 wrote: »
    What do you think of Blaine McIlroy referring to her as a 'Belfast Slut' in a text message with a photo attachment of her with her 2 friends (photo taken by P Jackson)?

    Better than death threats for a defence counsel anyway


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  • #7747
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    jm08 wrote: »
    What do you think of Blaine McIlroy referring to her as a 'Belfast Slut' in a text message with a photo attachment of her with her 2 friends (photo taken by P Jackson)?

    What do you think of the woman referring to women at a private party as sluts.

    She didnt even know these women, they had never set eyes on her before.


  • #7748
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tritium wrote: »
    Really, if they had a WhatsApp conversation in there discussing global warming would that show deep character and a sense of purpose?

    Or would you take it as a snapshot and base judgement on a more comprehensive pool of information?


    When fellas go on with all that macho rubbish it's a sure sign of immaturity and a lack of character.

    Top Shaggers, Spit Roast etc.. Would they grow up for FS. Proper education and parenting as opposed to having parents who are loaded would have helped them a lot.


  • #7749
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    wonga77 wrote: »
    I can't believe some of ye are still biting

    Can't be still biting when it's your first bite:D


  • #7750
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    It'll be interesting to see the reasons why the PSNI allegedly didn't feel a prosecution was not warranted.


  • #7751
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Nor you, nor anyone else in the thread, and yet here we all are.

    I already said that.
    Anyway time to move on. Lets hope Jacko can get his form back and provide a real alternative at No 10 for Ireland as we begin building for the rugby football world cup.


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  • #7752
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    tretorn wrote: »
    What do you think of the woman referring to women at a private party as sluts.

    She didnt even know these women, they had never set eyes on her before.

    I'll reply when RuMan responds to my question first.


  • #7753
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,815 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    One thing this trial really showed me was how prude some people are when it comes to sexual stuff. Some people(women more so) would lead you to believe nobody would never take part in any kind of kinky sex willingly. This isn't reality in my experience.


  • #7754
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    jm08 wrote: »
    I'll reply when RuMan responds to my question first.

    I already said private messages are none of my business. Unlike the vile abuse to Dara Florence these messages werent sent to the woman


  • #7755
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    It'll be interesting to see the reasons why the PSNI allegedly didn't feel a prosecution was not warranted.

    One of the reasons was probably the different versions the woman gave regarding the nights events.

    The big issue though was Dara Florence, there were a lot of phone calls about her evidence but eventually someone must have decided to charge the men anyway.

    There was absolutely no chance of a conviction once Dara said what she saw so everything from that day to this was a complete waste of time.


  • #7756
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,935 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    So both Blane and Jacko asked Dara to be with them.
    From Dara - the sole sober person.

    All evidence so far of the men approachinh he the women and the women rejecting them.
    Rory and Blane exchange a text 'did she go after him, I don't remember'. About the complainant.

    Yet in court they suddenly said that she was fixated on him and crying because rejected. Hmmmm


    That bit in bold is just so wrong.

    All the evidence was that the men asked Dara and Dara rejected him. As a woman who was so clear on consent, how come she wasn't able to say that what saw was non-consensual? Her evidence introduces sufficient doubt to ensure that there wouldn't be a conviction.


  • #7757
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    One thing this trial really showed me was how prude some people are when it comes to sexual stuff. Some people(women more so) would lead you to believe nobody would never take part in any kind of kinky sex willingly. This isn't reality in my experience.

    Right we get it...you're a legend...you do come across as smooth enough to be a legend!

    But where is anyone being prudish?

    Whatever happens in the privacy of one's life is one's business.

    But this trial has cost millions of pound, the most high profile trial in living memory, so something went wrong.

    If you look at the her state of mind when she left that room, the question most people are asking themselves is, did she seem like someone who had consented to everything that just happened.


  • #7758
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    When fellas go on with all that macho rubbish it's a sure sign of immaturity and a lack of character.

    Top Shaggers, Spit Roast etc.. Would they grow up for FS. Proper education and parenting as opposed to having parents who are loaded would have helped them a lot.

    This class ****e again. Yeah the prosecution did a fine job of blackening then based on their background

    No one is doubting there was plenty of immaturity that night by the way. Some of us just don’t see it as all one way. For example I don’t think a young lady sexually hitting on a lad who is too drunk to consent to anything is mature. Oddly some people give her a pass for that because she doesn’t have a penis


  • #7759
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tretorn wrote: »
    NAGDEFI wrote: »


    Where in my post did I say the majority of young women behave like anything, can you not read.

    I said some women are drama queens, they like drama and they like being the centre of attention.

    I didnt say anything was planned but dont forget that the woman and her friend had a very strange conversation a week previously about rapists and the best way to deal with them, ie blackmail or stab them. This to anyones mind is a very odd conversation, most women would say they would report a crime and not speculate about committing another crime, ie blackmailing someone who raped them.

    Come off it. You basically said this young woman was a drama queen who made up the story.

    The chat about rape the week before with her friend was probably coincidental. I'm sure girls talk about rape. Your interpretation of that message isn't what i read.


  • #7760
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Some coincidence.


  • #7761
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tritium wrote: »
    This class ****e again. Yeah the prosecution did a fine job of blackening then based on their background

    No one is doubting there was plenty of immaturity that night by the way. Some of us just don’t see it as all one way. For example I don’t think a young lady sexually hitting on a lad who is too drunk to consent to anything is mature. Oddly some people give her a pass for that because she doesn’t have a penis

    There's a major difference between a young girl flirting and rape, if as she ALLEGED, occurred.

    Class my ass. Good parenting can take place by people on the dole, middle classes, the professions etc.


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  • #7762
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    RuMan wrote: »
    I already said that.
    Anyway time to move on. Lets hope Jacko can get his form back and provide a real alternative at No 10 for Ireland as we begin building for the rugby football world cup.

    Oh well, if RuMan says it's time to move on...


  • #7763
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    RuMan wrote: »
    I already said that.
    Anyway time to move on. Lets hope Jacko can get his form back and provide a real alternative at No 10 for Ireland as we begin building for the rugby football world cup.

    Yeah, about that, it’s not going to happen.


  • #7764
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    RuMan wrote: »
    I already said that.
    Anyway time to move on. Lets hope Jacko can get his form back and provide a real alternative at No 10 for Ireland as we begin building for the rugby football world cup.

    'Jacko' as you affectionately call him, has as much chance at playing at out half for Ireland as me or you.

    Regardless of if he was praying in his bedroom with the complainant that night, he's soiled goods. And that is really sad if he is truly innocent.

    Just think of the reaction if he was on the panel for the Autumn Internationals. Joe Schmidt or any manager doesn't want that sh*t storm. A man who likes to control the controllables isn't going to bring in that uncontrollable mess.


  • #7765
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    There's a major difference between a young girl flirting and rape, if as she ALLEGED, occurred.

    Class my ass. Good parenting can take place by people on the dole, middle classes, the professions etc.

    You were the one who mentioned parents who were loaded! You’ve bought into the ****e and don’t even realize it ffs

    That’s a hell of an if btw given they were found not guilty. It’s not so much of a difference if consensual sexual activity, initiated by her happened as ALLEGED by Jackson


  • #7766
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The posting history of some of the contributors to this is interesting also a bit creepy.


  • #7767
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    One thing this trial really showed me was how prude some people are when it comes to sexual stuff. Some people(women more so) would lead you to believe nobody would never take part in any kind of kinky sex willingly. This isn't reality in my experience.

    It's hard to judge Fresh. Generational i'd say.

    I'd say the last 20 years, since 1998, easy access to porn, coupled with a general liberation has led to under 40s being more.. 'kinky' :) Of course you get people of all ages, but predominantly younger. I'm 42 and kinda on the cusp of the 2 groups. Some of my friends find it crazy carry on others the norm.


  • #7768
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,815 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Right we get it...you're a legend...you do come across as smooth enough to be a legend!

    But where is anyone being prudish?

    Whatever happens in the privacy of one's life is one's business.

    But this trial has cost millions of pound, the most high profile trial in living memory, so something went wrong.

    If you look at the her state of mind when she left that room, the question most people are asking themselves is, did she seem like someone who had consented to everything that just happened.

    It's the vibe I get off some people who says oh no woman would never have group sex or agree to be treated like that during sex.
    I can just base this on personal experience from myself and friends. Sometimes people regret their sexual encounters afterwords wither straight away or the next morning for what ever reason.


  • #7769
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tritium wrote: »
    You were the one who mentioned parents who were loaded! You’ve bought into the ****e and don’t even realize it ffs

    That’s a hell of an if btw given they were found not guilty. It’s not so much of a difference if consensual sexual activity, initiated by her happened as ALLEGED by Jackson

    I did realise, as sometimes when people are overly preoccupied with the financial side of things they lose sight of the basics of morality. Sometimes those in socially deprived areas are involved in drugs. No societal group is better than the other.

    The law of the land found the men not guilty. But most reasonable people, including yourself, know full well that most involved didn't know what was going on that night. Amount of drink, parties feeling there was consent, a party feeling there wasn't. All very grey. Dara Florence 50 seconds of judgement. Did she know the rugby lads well??? Maybe she was a credible witness?? I don't know,you don't know, the people themselves mightn't know.

    They were found not guilty by the law. But people always have their own opinions in the back of their minds.


  • #7770
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    I did realise, as sometimes when people are overly preoccupied with the financial side of things they lose sight of the basics of morality. Sometimes those in socially deprived areas are involved in drugs. No societal group is better than the other.

    The law of the land found the men not guilty. But most reasonable people, including yourself, know full well that most involved didn't know what was going on that night. Amount of drink, parties feeling there was consent, a party feeling there wasn't. All very grey. Dara Florence 50 seconds of judgement. Did she know the rugby lads well??? Maybe she was a credible witness?? I don't know,you don't know, the people themselves mightn't know.

    They were found not guilty by the law. But people always have their own opinions in the back of their minds.

    Very wrong to start assuming things about witnesses who gave evidence under oath. Unless of course you know something that the PSNI don't. Perhaps you should let them know.


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  • #7771
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    It's the vibe I get off some people who says oh no woman would never have group sex or agree to be treated like that during sex.
    I can just base this on personal experience from myself and friends. Sometimes people regret their sexual encounters afterwords wither straight away or the next morning for what ever reason.

    "The vibe you get off people!!"....right...so it's the vibe we are working off now, not what anyone actually says....

    How often does that regret end up in a court case, doing huge damage to 5 young lives?


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