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Relentless taunting and bullying that leads to suicide.

2456

Comments

  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tyson Harsh Cylinder wrote: »
    I agree. But you also have to worry about the kind of kids/teenagers who seem to see nothing wrong in targeting someone in a really vicious way and not even relenting when their target tries to take their own life; instead almost seeing it as some kind of 'win' and boasting and jeering about it on social media. There has to be something seriously wrong with kids who instigate that kind of thing, and their followers who keep going along with it, even when it has obviously taken a very, very serious turn.

    You know, I've met many of those who bullied me as adults, and they actually grew up into decent people. Oh, sure, some people are assholes for life, but childhood/teenage periods are too complicated to be so simplistic about what happens. The bullies i have known in my life, for the most part, had loads of **** going on that pushed them to pass on their pain on to other people. Quite often **** that their parents or teachers pushed on to them.

    My problem isn't so much with Children or teens being mean. That goes with the territory of growing up as people discover the difference between their parents values, societys values and the values we develop for ourselves. Often through experimentation.

    The focus should be on educating children/teens in how to protect themselves, and to learn the inner 'balance' that life often requires. This attempt to make everything safe is short-sighted and doomed to failure. It's creating a system of victims. Better to teach children to be independent, realistically aware of the dangers in the world, and for them to have the ability to react to those dangers.

    Pretending that life as a teen isn't hard is not preparing them for the challenges they'll face both pre-adult and once they become adults, since the bullying/peer pressure often increases into university.

    And it's going to get worse as the technology progresses. VR will change the SM landscape once it gets properly up and running... and that has the potential to be accessible virtually everywhere.


  • #33
    RoboRat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    I went through hell as a kid with bullying, I got beaten so badly once I was off school for 6 weeks. I am so glad social media wasn't around when I was a kid.

    The only positive is that if you can come through it, you end up being far stronger mentally than the bully's. I still see some of the culprits every now and then and they have piled on the weight and live crap lives. Ironically, I wouldn't have a pop in revenge as there is no point, they can see it themselves, there is no need to say anything.

    If that was happening to either of my kids, I would have no hesitation to call around to the kids parents and explain quite clearly that if it continued, there would be consequences - their kids are their responsibility, as are mine. I am also ensuring that my kids also learn self defence as I have been training for nearly a decade and it does wonders for your self esteem, confidence and as a result, how you hold yourself. People think twice about saying something if they think you can make them eat their words.


  • #34
    Malayalam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    That is a good aspiration. In real life it may (will) be much harder to enforce, especially once they get past 14 or so. Maybe younger, for some. They will go behind your back as they get older if you are too strict, that's just a fact. The battles with modern children have to be carefully picked. It is better to talk regularly and bluntly with them about electronic bullying. Serious on-the-level stuff about the nature of different interactive mediums and their effect on the psyche. Keep up to date with your children, not by policing their devices until they are 18, but by communication, eye to eye. They will all be teased, it's inevitable - horrid photos, crazy admirers, silly pranks, neurotic stalkers, kids trying out their humour bone and ending up being just mean - and that teasing can occasionally feel incredibly magnified because of the medium. It can escalate to bullying - what begins as teasing sometimes becomes worse as the herd smells blood. Or a bully finds their mark. You have to teach them not to ever be available to be a bullies mark. The only defense is that they become very tough minded. They should feel utter contempt for bullies- a kind of ironic hardness of attitude, they should understand the mechanics of it all. How some people have that much hurt in them that they need to hurt others. How some people are psychopathic by inclination, and don't care for others pain. How to bully another is a lowly, pathetic, contemptible act, absolutely not a sign of strength. It's a pity to have to develop these aspects in our beloved children, but it is necessary, otherwise they are defenseless. Social media will be part of their lives regardless of what we want or think.
    They should also have outside activities that make them feel super-good about themselves. Empowered. Valued. Self-sufficient. We found martial arts fitted that bill - boys and girls. But whatever works for the individual child.


  • #35
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You know, I've met many of those who bullied me as adults, and they actually grew up into decent people. Oh, sure, some people are assholes for life, but childhood/teenage periods are too complicated to be so simplistic about what happens. The bullies i have known in my life, for the most part, had loads of **** going on that pushed them to pass on their pain on to other people. Quite often **** that their parents or teachers pushed on to them.

    My problem isn't so much with Children or teens being mean. That goes with the territory of growing up as people discover the difference between their parents values, societys values and the values we develop for ourselves. Often through experimentation.

    The focus should be on educating children/teens in how to protect themselves, and to learn the inner 'balance' that life often requires. This attempt to make everything safe is short-sighted and doomed to failure. It's creating a system of victims. Better to teach children to be independent, realistically aware of the dangers in the world, and for them to have the ability to react to those dangers.

    Pretending that life as a teen isn't hard is not preparing them for the challenges they'll face both pre-adult and once they become adults, since the bullying/peer pressure often increases into university.

    And it's going to get worse as the technology progresses. VR will change the SM landscape once it gets properly up and running... and that has the potential to be accessible virtually everywhere.

    I see what you're saying and I agree that many teens who bully go on to be decent adults. But there's levels of bullying, and situations where a teenager knows that they have driven another teenager to attempt suicide and continue to taunt and jeer at that teenager have gone beyond anything that can be dismissed as 'teenagers being teenagers', 'they're just going through a difficult time themselves' etc. There is something fundamentally disturbed, inhuman and deeply nasty about that kind of behaviour.


  • #36
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,237 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Malayalam wrote: »
    ...We found martial arts fitted that bill - boys and girls. But whatever works for the individual child.

    A fourteen-year-old with a second-degree black belt in Taekwon-Do and who is capable of shoving the average teenager's head up his or her arse within seconds, presents a very different proposition psychologically to a cyber-bully. :pac::pac::pac:


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  • #37
    one armed dwarf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 947 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    I feel this has been a thing since forever. Back in 03 or so when all my classmates and friends were setting up Bebo accounts they asked me all the time to sign up and I didn't want to because I noticed other kids getting bullied on it by the same people who would bully me. After school was like a kind of psychological refuge from that **** so bringing it online sounded like a special kind of hell.


  • #38
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    OSI wrote: »
    Yes, literally no one has ever been bullied or committed suicide as a result of a bullying induced mental state before the arrival of Facebook. Not one.

    That is a quantum leap that has no connection with anything raised in this thread.

    Maybe check stats on this though; or are you saying that no one commits suicide because of social media? Have a work with google about this , please.

    Social media widens the field for bullies. It opens a worldwide arena. No longer "just " school or work bullying .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_and_suicide

    Are not our young people worth saving and protecting?


  • #39
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    I understand that there are no laws to deal with online abuse and verbal bullying I think that needs to be reviewed sooner rather than later.

    However there is a law against physical abuse, if someone was putting out cigarettes on my daughter I'd be making sure the gardai were dealing with it in a very serious manner.


  • #40
    Malayalam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    jimgoose wrote: »
    A fourteen-year-old with a second-degree black belt in Taekwon-Do and who is capable of shoving the average teenager's head up his or her arse within seconds, presents a very different proposition psychologically to a cyber-bully. :pac::pac::pac:

    Yes. :) It is interesting to see that as social media use has increased there has been a similar surge in MMA and various schools of self defense. Perhaps not unconnected.


  • #41
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Graces7 wrote: »
    That is a quantum leap that has no connection with anything raised in this thread.

    Maybe check stats on this though; or are you saying that no one commits suicide because of social media? Have a work with google about this , please.

    Social media widens the field for bullies. It opens a worldwide arena. No longer "just " school or work bullying .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_and_suicide

    Are not our young people worth saving and protecting?

    That is not what was being said. Wiki? Great. Ask it were there suicides brought on by bullying and ostracisation before Facebook, because that was the point being made.


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  • #42
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Children are basically wild animals. Empathy for one's fellow-creatures and manners come with maturity and an understanding that if you act like an asshole you will be treated as such. In the old days, if a youngster was acting like that towards another person their father would say something like "What am I after rearing?!?! If I catch you behaving like that again I'll kick the head clean off you, you little shit!!". Nowadays, due to technology they have free-reign and this sort of thing is virtually impossible to detect and put a stop to in good time.

    SOME children are.


  • #43
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I agree with you to some extent but unless you follow them around 24/7 you won't stop them accessing stuff like this anyway.

    Better to teach them how to handle it IMO.


  • #44
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    I think bullying has always happened but that social media and the online element is different and cannot be compared to what people dealt with previously. All of what happened in the past is still there plus the online bullying.

    I think the behaviour of many adults - many of whom consider themselves respectable members of society - online is deplorable. The same person who likes a Pieta House link and retweets Darkness into Light one minute is engaging in nasty personal attacks in online comments sections or groups the next. Making nasty personal comments publicly online is normalised. And it's people of all ages and social classes. And they get so defensive about it when called out on it in person - as if their online comments aren't real.

    Spewing bile and making personal attacks seems to be accepted as the norm in online discourse. Lots of people seem to have a complete disconnect in how they behave in person versus online. I don't think it's in any way surprising that many young people engage in bullying online and through social media.


  • #45
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    Graces7 wrote: »
    That is a quantum leap that has no connection with anything raised in this thread.

    Maybe check stats on this though; or are you saying that no one commits suicide because of social media? Have a work with google about this , please.

    Social media widens the field for bullies. It opens a worldwide arena. No longer "just " school or work bullying .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_and_suicide

    Are not our young people worth saving and protecting?

    This is true but you are better to teach your kids to develop coping strategies than to try to turn back the clock to the 1980s. Most platforms allow you to block people.


  • #46
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Tessa Millions Ankle wrote: »
    I think bullying has always happened but that social media and the online element is different and cannot be compared to what people dealt with previously. All of what happened in the past is still there plus the online bullying.

    I think the behaviour of many adults - many of whom consider themselves respectable members of society - online is deplorable. The same person who likes a Pieta House link and retweets Darkness into Light one minute is engaging in nasty personal attacks in online comments sections or groups the next. Making nasty personal comments publicly online is normalised. And it's people of all ages and social classes. And they get so defensive about it when called out on it in person - as if their online comments aren't real.

    Spewing bile and making personal attacks seems to be accepted as the norm in online discourse. Lots of people seem to have a complete disconnect in how they behave in person versus online. I don't think it's in any way surprising that many young people engage in bullying online and through social media.

    Yes, I totally agree with this. Even on ordinary chat forums you will see people engaging in totally unprovoked nastiness and sneering, putting other people down for fun, ganging up on a poster whose views they don't agree with and resorting to personal spiteful comments if they're losing an argument. It's depressing to see this kind of behaviour from adults, and then reading another post where they refer to their children and you realise they're actually parents (not that I'm saying that kind of behaviour is acceptable from any adult, but you wonder how they're raising their children when you see their own behaviour on line).


  • #47
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    professore wrote: »
    This is true but you are better to teach your kids to develop coping strategies than to try to turn back the clock to the 1980s. Most platforms allow you to block people.

    You see all this as progress? Interesting idea.


  • #48
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Tyson Harsh Cylinder wrote: »
    Yes, I totally agree with this. Even on ordinary chat forums you will see people engaging in totally unprovoked nastiness and sneering, putting other people down for fun, ganging up on a poster whose views they don't agree with and resorting to personal spiteful comments if they're losing an argument. It's depressing to see this kind of behaviour from adults, and then reading another post where they refer to their children and you realise they're actually parents (not that I'm saying that kind of behaviour is acceptable from any adult, but you wonder how they're raising their children when you see their own behaviour on line).

    Yep. A jungle indeed.


  • #49
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    Graces7 wrote: »
    You see all this as progress? Interesting idea.

    Of a sort. Progress is not universally positive. There are some great things that come with the internet too. At least my kids don't have to worry about being felt up or worse by a priest, a real concern for teenagers of my vintage.


  • #50
    Whispered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    I think every generation of parents face a "new" fear for their kids and for the most part the kids navigate admirably. My biggest fear for my boy is how to teach him to protect his mental health in an increasingly confusing world.

    I've seen the aftermath of bullying, well before social media became so prevalent. You cannot control how others speak to you/about you so you have to control your reaction. How to teach that to a child though..... it is a complicated question.


  • #51
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,292 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    We had social media as a teenager. It's not as big now but just be careful of them using older dives/friends devices/having multiple accounts/ using different names. Just based on my experience parents who over monitored things kids ran into more trouble.


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  • #52
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    I'm usually a tight bastard but I gave a few euro to her Gofundme page.


  • #53
    Ashbourne hoop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    Some good points made on a very interesting topic. If you or your children are being bullied on-line get screen grabs of all the content, if its your children this relies on them telling you about the bullying. That is where having an honest relationship with your children comes in, and yes I know that's an ideal scenario. Report the abuse to the gardaí without delay. They, for the most part, take this very seriously when its reported to them, as I posted previously it is a criminal offence, but most don't bother reporting. Cyber bullying is a horrible part of growing up now, and there should be zero tolerance of it. Educate yourself about social media, as I'm trying to do at the moment re Snapchat, which to be honest, I don't see the point of, yes I know that's a generation thing.


  • #54
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Tyson Harsh Cylinder wrote: »
    It's terrible to think that even though the Gardaí knew what was going on, there is absolutely no law whatsoever to prevent this type of behaviour and the awful consequences that follow.

    I really hope this poor mother achieves her aim of getting some kind of law introduced to counter this increasing phenomenon of some young people behaving like absolute animals, emotionally savaging someone to death just for kicks.

    The general problem is that it's kids that do this stuff and you can't lock up kids.
    And kids who do this in a lot of cases cannot be controlled by their parents so really what do you do.


  • #55
    Mrhuth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭Mrhuth


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Some people are just ****s. They were bullying and taunting when I was a teen, and there's going to be people doing it long after I'm dead.

    I wish there was some way to teach teens how to protect themselves from these muppets. For most of us, we learn how to do so in our twenties after the worst of it is finished.

    Send them to the gas chamber, that's all they deserve.


  • #56
    jluv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭jluv


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    We have four daughters, none of whom will be getting a smartphone until she is well into her teens. Even then, phones will be turned off and left downstairs between 9 pm and 9 am. Passwords to all devices and social media accounts will be joint property of kids and parents until they turn 18.[/quote]
    My nephew and niece 10 and 14 have smartphone. Any app they join have to have parental approval and they have to "friend" or whatever their dad. My sister switches off the WiFi in their house from 8pm to 8am (except when I'm kid sitting cos I'd lose my life!) Responsible parenting but unfortunately not every kid has that and the irresponsible parent will throw the smartphone at the kid to keep them out of their hair.
    My son was bullied at school over 10 years ago and pre all kids having smartphones. I'd never have guessed from his behaviour. Fortunately my cousins kid told her and she told me. When put to my son he said yes he was physically and name calling. I was horrified he didn't tell me! I asked him why not. His reply was that there is nothing you can do mother and so I just look at them as the pieces of crap that they are. I wanted to go fighting as the mother bear I am but he asked me not to. However that summer he asked to change schools and thanks to my cousins heads up I of course said yes (if I didn't have that info I might possibly had said no) and he found like minded excellent friends that he still has today.


  • #57
    drillyeye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 408 ✭✭drillyeye


    In a new world of infinite information, people will create their own reality, picking and choosing what they like, joining the hivemind of the deluded.

    These micro-realities will be controlled from the outside by a small subset of intelligentsia, guiding the plebeian masses to whichever "truth" they see fit.

    If you have children, keep them off the internet. Teach them from afar and allow them to see how easily people can be controlled. They will either be controlled, or be a controller, parents must pick before they are subsumed into false micro-realities.

    Theres also the added bonus of not being bullied to death too!


  • #58
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,292 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I had social media as a teenager because I'm 26 obviously it wasn't as big as it now. Most people my age were left at it to be honest and there wasn't a whole lot of bullying on it. The odd thing happened such as people hacking people's accounts but their wasn't much bullying.
    There was the odd bit of bullying at school as well. I got slightly bullied at times but what I found worked was just to laugh it off and I sort of befriended them but I was well able for them.
    Some people however weren't as lucky. One guy really got picked on by people at school and he really kept to himself. He was sort of like Marcus out of About A Boy.(If you know the film and just need a bit of confidence)The other guy who got badly bullied sort of brought it on himself. He used make up lies and pick fights with people and wasn't able to take it.
    However the school in general was okay and hasn't really being effected by suicide compared to others in the area.
    One thing I do notice now is kids/teenagers get told that ever disagreement is bullying/trolling. Certain online influencers are always talking about being trolled/bullied over having a difference of opinion with somebody and this isn't a good thing to be teaching kids/teenager. There is a difference between this and bullying in my opinion.


  • #59
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    So do not take your phone to bed with you! Social media is not compulsory.  Switch it off. You are doing this to yourself

    What a stupid comment. I'm a 32-year-old woman, I know social media isn't compulsory. How do you think it is for a teenager these days? From what my cousins say, they're damned if they use it and damned if they don't. People can still talk about them and say cruel things via Snapchat etc. They tell me they'd rather be in the loop than not. Imagine people looking at you and sniggering at you in class and you haven't even any idea why because it's related to something someone put online.


  • #60
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,087 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Graces7 wrote: »
    facebook needs to be closed down, And kids meanwhile need to stop using it.

    Kids pretty much have stopped using Facebook Except (scarily) for looking for jobs. It's pretty much the preserve of oldersters and job hunters now.




    And I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the story in the original article.

    Young woman with a physical disability is doing just fine until she turns 18. Then she starts going out (it doesn't say explicitly, but I assume clubbing) with a new set of friends and they turn out to be ****s.

    Yeah - so where were her original friends? Why'd she stop going out with them and start hanging out with people who were cruel to her? I can understand it from school kids: they have no choice who they go to school with. But once you turn 18 you have a lot more choices, and at least the beginnings of enough brain cells to use them.

    I reckon there's a whole 'nother side to the story.


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  • #61
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I understand that there are no laws to deal with online abuse and verbal bullying I think that needs to be reviewed sooner rather than later.

    However there is a law against physical abuse, if someone was putting out cigarettes on my daughter I'd be making sure the gardai were dealing with it in a very serious manner.
    I think you may be mistaken as online abuse and verbal bullying would seem to fall within the scope of section 10 of the non fatal offences against the person act - link :
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/10/enacted/en/html


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