The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

drillyeye · 02-04-2018 08:41PM

gctest50 wrote: »

MISSION HAS FAILED

ATTEMPT SHUTDOWN THREAD PROCEDURE

What don't you see, when the poster I'm replying to has literally broadcast their ill intentions? That, naturally, only came after the wild goose chase of pretending to have a conversation.

But then again, you're just another one of "them"! (Cue nefarious music!)

Fooking group-think!

Kurtosis · 02-04-2018 08:52PM

Well drillyeye, in the interests of getting the discussion back on topic, could you link to or restate what you think the government should have done as I asked earlier?

Kurtosis wrote: »

Yes I'm afraid I still do not follow what you would like the government to have done. Could you maybe spell out exactly what you would like to have seen?

To my mind the government have laid out their position in the general scheme linked earlier.

drillyeye wrote: »

In another post I did already.
I don't see how people can be entirely comfortable with uninformed voting.

Kurtosis wrote: »

Could you point me in the direction of where you described this? Thanks.

BabysCoffee · 02-04-2018 08:58PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well the anti.choice are one step ahead on getting their posters up. Powerful posters also.

The pro choice need to wake up.

I plan to get out with a local canvas and do leaflet drops etc. I've also made a donation on the Together for Yes page. I am forgoing my daily coffee and will donate the money I save on this to the campaign on a weekly basis up to the referendum. Every little bit helps.

Hopefully the prochoice posters will get up soon.

drillyeye · 02-04-2018 09:01PM

Kurtosis wrote: »

Well drillyeye, in the interests of getting the discussion back on topic, could you link to or restate what you think the government should have done as I asked earlier?

Look, I'll tell you this. After other posters were "just asking questions" and turned out to be about as genuine as Italian leather made in Thailand.....

I'm stepping out of this. You could be just the same. Maybe not. But I've wasted enough time on it.

I'm un-following.

nice_guy80 · 02-04-2018 09:06PM

every pole on the N4 has been done
I'm going to report them for false message

1 in 5 babies are aborted in the UK
THEY ARE FOETUSES!

Zerbini Blewitt · 02-04-2018 09:08PM

Just reading the past few pages, it is almost inevitable as the voting day approaches that the tried and trusted modus operandi hysteria of the women-are-incubators side will raise to a crescendo – and the calm discussion of the citizen’s assembly will seem a half-remembered, distant memory (or so they think).

I lived thru the 8th campaign in ’83 but as a 14 year old I couldn’t articulate for over a decade or more the nauseating stupidity of what I had witnessed & had to listen to - from the various pre-historic religious lunatics and other assorted authoritarian liars in the different pro-life groups.

This article will give people who weren’t there, a small sense of what that profoundly shameful & disgraceful campaign was like:-

www.joe.ie/life-style/story-of-the-8th-how-right-wing-catholic-groups-staged-a-remarkable-political-coup

The past is a different country and of course it will not happen exactly like that in this campaign but I think anyone undecided should have no tolerance for ignorant hysteria any more from the pro-life / forced-incubation side.

Kurtosis · 02-04-2018 09:09PM

drillyeye wrote: »

Look, I'll tell you this. After other posters were "just asking questions" and turned out to be about as genuine as Italian leather made in Thailand.....

I'm stepping out of this. You could be just the same. Maybe not. But I've wasted enough time on it.

I'm un-following.

Well I've been nothing but respectful in my responses to you, it's a pity you won't afford me the same courtesy. So much for wanting a legitimate conversation.

drillyeye · 02-04-2018 09:13PM

Kurtosis wrote: »

Well I've been nothing but respectful in my responses to you, it's a pity you won't afford me the same courtesy. So much for wanting a legitimate conversation.

You see, even here, you are questioning the legitimacy of my intentions. You haven't been rude or anything, but you're revealing that insight all the same, that you're only here to delegitimise anything I have to say.

I might be wrong, but indications say otherwise.

That's it, maybe I'll hit the in-follow button quick enough this time.

January · 02-04-2018 09:17PM

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/author-of-savita-halappanavar-report-says-8th-amendment-contributed-to-her-death-810432.html

Savita died as a direct result of the 8th amendment not from sepsis the author into the report on her death has stated.

Edit sorry only seeing the date of this article now... Must have slipped by when it was published but there we go.

captbarnacles · 02-04-2018 09:19PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

every pole on the N4 has been done
I'm going to report them for false message

1 in 5 babies are aborted in the UK
THEY ARE FOETUSES!

And foetuses from Irish women included in that which they will be fine with although the irony will be completely lost on them.

thee glitz · 02-04-2018 09:21PM

Loadsa people replied to my earlier posts, feckin loads. And I've been busy and it's not easy on mobile and there's plenty worthy of a reply that I haven't got to (yet, anyway), so sorry about that.

amdublin · 02-04-2018 09:21PM

January wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/author-of-savita-halappanavar-report-says-8th-amendment-contributed-to-her-death-810432.html

Savita died as a direct result of the 8th amendment not from sepsis the author into the report on her death has stated.

Like it seems so simple doesn't it. The miscarriage caused the sepsis. Not all miscarriages cause sepsis.

But if a termination had been done when she asked, the sepsis could/would never have even had the chance off occurring.

But legally the termination could not occur because the heart beat was still (faintly) present?

Kurtosis · 02-04-2018 09:21PM

drillyeye wrote: »

You see, even here, you are questioning the legitimacy of my intentions. You haven't been rude or anything, but you're revealing that insight all the same, that you're only here to delegitimise anything I have to say.

I might be wrong, but indications say otherwise.

That's it, maybe I'll hit the in-follow button quick enough this time.

Well it's a reasonable conclusion to draw when you reject a genuine offer to continue debating the topic. If you change your mind and do want to actually discuss the facts of the situation, the offer stands.

amdublin · 02-04-2018 09:24PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I plan to get out with a local canvas and do leaflet drops etc. I've also made a donation on the Together for Yes page. I am forgoing my daily coffee and will donate the money I save on this to the campaign on a weekly basis up to the referendum. Every little bit helps.

Hopefully the prochoice posters will get up soon.

A while back I signed up for an "8 for 8 campaign". I started a standing order for €8 to go to support repealing the 8th amendment for 8 months.

I'll be getting out canvassing soon once I have some exams out of the way

gctest50 · 02-04-2018 09:26PM

drillyeye wrote: »

What don't you see, when the poster I'm replying to has literally broadcast their ill intentions? That, naturally, only came after the wild goose chase of pretending to have a conversation.

But then again, you're just another one of "them"! (Cue nefarious music!)

Fooking group-think!

drillyeye wrote: »

....Fooking group-think!

Group-think ?

Which is safer ? :

a) person goes abroad for (medical) procedure

or

b) same person goes abroad for same (medical) procedure in a bit of a hurry

BabysCoffee · 02-04-2018 09:26PM

Zerbini Blewitt wrote: »

Just reading the past few pages, it is almost inevitable as the voting day approaches that the tried and trusted modus operandi hysteria of the women-are-incubators side will raise to a crescendo – and the calm discussion of the citizen’s assembly will seem a half-remembered, distant memory (or so they think).

I lived thru the 8th campaign in ’83 but as a 14 year old I couldn’t articulate for over a decade or more the nauseating stupidity of what I had witnessed & had to listen to - from the various pre-historic religious lunatics and other assorted authoritarian liars in the different pro-life groups.

This article will give people who weren’t there, a small sense of what that profoundly shameful & disgraceful campaign was like:-

www.joe.ie/life-style/story-of-the-8th-how-right-wing-catholic-groups-staged-a-remarkable-political-coup

The past is a different country and of course it will not happen exactly like that in this campaign but I think anyone undecided should have no tolerance for ignorant hysteria any more from the pro-life / forced-incubation side.

https://www.joe.ie/life-style/story-of-the-8th-how-right-wing-catholic-groups-staged-a-remarkable-political-coup-614595?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onsite_share

"Long before a fully formed PLAC delegation, comprised of gynaecologists, doctors and lawyers, met with Fitzgerald and Haughey, the first anti-abortion foot soldiers were travelling the country."

I've just started reading and I have goosebumps. It sounds so sinister.....

gctest50 · 02-04-2018 09:33PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

.........

I've just started reading and I have goosebumps. It sounds so sinister.....

more of the same :

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/why-ireland-became-the-only-country-in-the-democratic-world-to-have-a-constitutional-ban-on-abortion-1.1907610

John O’Reilly (COSC) explicitly regarded a successful anti-abortion amendment as a prelude to action against contraception and “illegitimacy”: “The campaign for a pro-life amendment would enjoy widespread support now and the success of the campaign would serve to halt the permissive tide in other areas.”

The most successful single issue movement in the history of the State, the Pro-Life Amendment Campaign (PLAC), was established in January 1981 by 13 organisations:
the Congress of Catholic Secondary School Parents’ Associations;
the Irish Catholic Doctors’ Guild;
the Guild of Catholic Nurses;
the Guild of Catholic Pharmacists;
the Catholic Young Men’s Society;
the St Thomas More Society;
the Irish Pro-Life Movement;
the National Association of the Ovulation Method (“natural” contraception endorsed by the Catholic church);
the Council of Social Concern (COSC);
the Irish Responsible Society;
the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children;
the St Joseph’s Young Priests Society (young Catholic priests, that is);
and the Christian Brothers Schools Parents’ Federation.

The initial meeting was chaired by the head of a 14th organisation that was immensely influential on the campaign behind the scenes, the secretive, all-male brotherhood the Order of the Knights of Columbanus.

ArmaniJeanss · 02-04-2018 09:55PM

Zerbini Blewitt wrote: »

www.joe.ie/life-style/story-of-the-8th-how-right-wing-catholic-groups-staged-a-remarkable-political-coup

That's a fantastic read (just in case anyone see's that it's joe.ie and doesn't bother).

thee glitz · 02-04-2018 10:13PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

I don't know if any of the pro choice side are pretending to be concerned about rape victims, FFA etc as you claim. I seriously doubt that they are pretending, especially not those posting on here. but I certainly am not pretending I am concerned for them and what they have to go through, not to mention getting basic health care denied because a person is pregnant. Nothing is trivial when faced with such a situation.

Sorry to hear something terrible happened to someone close to you. I'm saying that they don't particularly care, pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming to do so while pushing for a regime more liberal than required to help them.

Nettle Soup · 02-04-2018 10:20PM

Does any prolife person honestly believe the abortion issue can be dealt with sufficiently within the confines of the constitution?

thee glitz · 02-04-2018 10:25PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Does any prolife person honestly believe the abortion issue can be dealt with sufficiently within the confines of the constitution?

No idea, but I'd like to see it discussed.

Water John · 02-04-2018 10:28PM

No, they don't, but no is still their answer.

gctest50 · 02-04-2018 10:31PM

You can see one of the things that was really driving it :

Farming Humans - take away their babies and sell them, and keep them for work :

The Irish Responsible Society, of which five key PLAC (Pro-Life Amendment Campaign ) leaders were members, was the Irish branch of the group led by the English right-wing Catholic activist Valerie Riches

The first action of her Irish followers was to campaign against a small State grant to the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre.

Its next campaign was against the removal of the stigma of illegitimacy from children born out of wedlock.

http://littleatoms.com/penance-industry

As recently as the 1980s and 1990s, though, I remember witnessing at first hand, this world, where fervent religiosity melded with an invisible, and profitable economy.

Like thousands of women in 20th century Ireland, Elsie was put in a convent for a life sentence.

Her crime?

Having a child out of wedlock.

January · 02-04-2018 10:35PM

thee glitz wrote: »

No idea, but I'd like to see it discussed.

Well. You're pro life. What's your view.

amdublin · 02-04-2018 10:46PM

That article.

Why are some people so intent on controlling other people's bedroom activity and wombs.

Sigh.

https://www.joe.ie/life-style/story-of-the-8th-how-right-wing-catholic-groups-staged-a-remarkable-political-coup-614595?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onsite_share

Annasopra · 02-04-2018 10:48PM

thee glitz wrote: »

Sorry to hear something terrible happened to someone close to you. I'm saying that they don't particularly care, pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming to do so while pushing for a regime more liberal than required to help them.

Who is "they"? I genuinely know hundreds of pro choice people who who care about what happens to victims of rape, who are genuinely concerned about their welfare, about what they might go through in unwanted pregnancy, about the possible trauma that might cause during pregnancy and even after they make a decision to have the baby e.g. post natal depression. Of course not every victim of rape wants to abort, but some do make that decision and the idea that they should forced against their will to go through the full 9 months if it is an unwanted pregnancy is abhorrent. I just cant figure who "they" is. Are you talking me and all the other pro choice posters here. I havent seen anyone here used victims of rape in a pro choice agenda. In fact it is the opposite many people are pro choice because they care and are compssionate towards women who find themselves in difficult circumstances.

PopePalpatine · 02-04-2018 10:52PM

gctest50 wrote: »

You can see one of the things that was really driving it :

Farming Humans - take away their babies and sell them, and keep them for work :

Replying with "#LoveBoth" would just be too easy, like Homer beating up the Krusty Burglar.

02-04-2018 11:00PM

thee glitz wrote: »

Sorry to hear something terrible happened to someone close to you. I'm saying that they don't particularly care, pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming to do so while pushing for a regime more liberal than required to help them.

This doesn't make any sense to me, maybe it's the fact that I'm tired. But your saying that the pro choice side don't actually care about these women and are using them just so they can have abortion on demand?

Sorry but that myth has been debunked already as far as I'm concerened. What hasn't been debunked is the PLC side insisting that we don't need to repeal as the health care and assistance that these women receive is fine as long as another child is brought into the world.

Martina1991 · 02-04-2018 11:06PM

thee glitz wrote:

I'm saying that they don't particularly care, pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming to do so while pushing for a regime more liberal than required to help them.

Who the hell is they.

Most people who are pro choice are so because they care about the lives of women effected by the 8th.

It's the pro life side that have shown here to be lacking in compassion.

thee glitz · 02-04-2018 11:12PM

January wrote: »

Well. You're pro life. What's your view.[/quote]

My view is that I've no knowledge of constitutional law or skills in drafting it to be able to propose an amendment that would allow for abortion where reasonably necessary, but also prevent legislation allowing it where not, just that I'd like to see it discussed by those best placed to do so.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Who is "they"? I genuinely know hundreds of pro choice people who who care about what happens to victims of rape, who are genuinely concerned about their welfare, about what they might go through in unwanted pregnancy, about the possible trauma that might cause during pregnancy and even after they make a decision to have the baby e.g. post natal depression. Of course not every victim of rape wants to abort, but some do make that decision and the idea that they should forced against their will to go through the full 9 months if it is an unwanted pregnancy is abhorrent. I just cant figure who "they" is. Are you talking me and all the other pro choice posters here.

"They" is loads of people here.

I havent seen anyone here used victims of rape in a pro choice agenda.

It's a pro-choice tactic, visible in this thread. Sometimes coupled with rape for added distress.

In fact it is the opposite many people are pro choice because they care and are compssionate towards women who find themselves in difficult circumstances.

How is that the opposite? They show that they don't particularly care about rape victims, FFA etc by not seeking that proposed legislation be more restrictive.

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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