PRL at it again

LeinsterDub · 02-04-2018 6:28pm #1

So PRL are at it again and there is talk of changing the European Cup.

Downsizing the European Champions Cup has been proposed as a way to protect player welfare if the Premiership is ring-fenced with more than 12 teams...

There is a feeling that the Champions Cup has lost its aura with more than half of the Premiership taking part this season and fewer European matches would allow for an expanded top flight in England without adding to player workload.

Interesting this feeling seems to have manifested itself in a year when the English clubs where poor. Perhaps they can just jump to the no winning rule now and save us prolonged debate about structures.

[URL] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/02/champions-cup-rugby-premiership-wrangle[/url]

awec · 02-04-2018 6:55pm

This would not be surprising given the league is their cash cow. France probably the same.

Reality is the European cup is more important to pro14 sides than English or French.

sydthebeat · 02-04-2018 7:23pm

So the pro 14 and top 14, with a greater number of teams, don't have an issue with the schedule.

But the English, with 12 teams, can't manage to be able to handle it.

Perhaps they should look at changing their own system of club v country first.

LeinsterDub · 02-04-2018 7:30pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

So the pro 14 and top 14, with a greater number of teams, don't have an issue with the schedule.

But the English, with 12 teams, can't manage to be able to handle it.

Perhaps they should look at changing their own system of club v country first.

A pro 14 conference model could work really well in England

swiwi_ · 02-04-2018 7:36pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

So the pro 14 and top 14, with a greater number of teams, don't have an issue with the schedule.

But the English, with 12 teams, can't manage to be able to handle it.

Perhaps they should look at changing their own system of club v country first.

Doubt the English union would have the money to buy up the clubs.

As much as people like scorning the French and English I have to say a European final involving only Pro 14 sides I would find a tad less interesting. Not sure I’d be that fussed about yet another Munster and Leinster derby.

pickarooney · 02-04-2018 7:38pm

Yeah, let's have Saracens v Toulon every year

swiwi_ · 02-04-2018 7:39pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Yeah, let's have Saracens v Toulon every year

That’s not what I said...

Let’s have a Pro 14 vs a French or English club every year.

Shefwedfan · 02-04-2018 7:42pm

PRL are a joke at this stage, They half ruined the Heineken cup because of the changes....

It was all ok for a few years as the UK clubs got to semi's/finals etc

This year they have fallen off, England had poor performance in 6 nations and now the answer is hit the European cup again...

Maybe the French, Welsh, Italian and South Africans should just break away and dump them. The Aviva Permiership is pi** poor rugby anyway.

I am sure BT wont be too happy if they start messing around again, they have bought the right to Champions Cup for the next few seasons for a few quid

thomond2006 · 02-04-2018 7:50pm

.ak · 02-04-2018 7:50pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Doubt the English union would have the money to buy up the clubs.

As much as people like scorning the French and English I have to say a European final involving only Pro 14 sides I would find a tad less interesting. Not sure I’d be that fussed about yet another Munster and Leinster derby.

The last time we met in Europe was 2009.

It's a rare gem, and trust me, there would be fireworks. Nothing like the usual pro14 derby.

Having said that, I do agree I think the allure of beating the top club from another country on neutral ground in a European final.

The Lost Sheep · 02-04-2018 8:10pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Doubt the English union would have the money to buy up the clubs.

As much as people like scorning the French and English I have to say a European final involving only Pro 14 sides I would find a tad less interesting. Not sure I’d be that fussed about yet another Munster and Leinster derby.

Munster and Leinster last played in europe 9 years ago. I dont see how the final being from sides from same league is less interesting especially when its just the second time its happened for this league and first time a pro 14 side has made this final since 2012

Neil3030 · 02-04-2018 8:14pm

Just so I'm clear here - this is good for rugby in Romania and Georgia how?

Dubinusa · 02-04-2018 8:21pm

Sarries winning was not a problem!! Now that they have no semi finalists they get pissy.
Next year Exeter will be a handful as will Sarries. Much ado about bullcrap.

ScrubsfanChris · 02-04-2018 8:58pm

Former Former · 02-04-2018 9:00pm

Think a collective relaxation is needed here. That article is so incredibly vague that it's borderline meaningless. It doesn't say who has proposed this scaling-back, how much support there is for it, or how it would actually contribute to a meaningful reduction in workload.

It also ignores the fact that a new TV deal has recently been agreed so any changes could only begin in 2022, by which time a whole lot more water will have passed under the bridge.

In short, I would pay very little attention to it and I certainly wouldn't jump on it as toys being thrown out of the pram or saying PRL are a joke.

thomond2006 · 02-04-2018 9:02pm

Where's IBF? Surely his Spidey Sense has been alerted to this thread.

thomond2006 · 02-04-2018 9:04pm

Former Former wrote: »

In short, I would pay very little attention to it and I certainly wouldn't jump on it as toys being thrown out of the pram or saying PRL are a joke.

Don't deny me a chance to thanks whore.

bilston · 02-04-2018 9:08pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Where's IBF? Surely his Spidey Sense has been alerted to this thread.

The post count for IBF and Molloy is about to go through the roof

LeinsterDub · 02-04-2018 9:09pm

Former Former wrote: »

Think a collective relaxation is needed here. That article is so incredibly vague that it's borderline meaningless. It doesn't say who has proposed this scaling-back, how much support there is for it, or how it would actually contribute to a meaningful reduction in workload.

It also ignores the fact that a new TV deal has recently been agreed so any changes could only begin in 2022, by which time a whole lot more water will have passed under the bridge.

In short, I would pay very little attention to it and I certainly wouldn't jump on it as toys being thrown out of the pram or saying PRL are a joke.

They threw the old competition under the bus during a TV deal. They allegedly signed a new deal while the old deal was still in place hence why we have BT and Sky.

While I take your point regarding the source being vague it was this kind of kite flying that turned out to be true last time.

irishbucsfan · 02-04-2018 9:12pm

Former Former wrote: »

Think a collective relaxation is needed here. That article is so incredibly vague that it's borderline meaningless. It doesn't say who has proposed this scaling-back, how much support there is for it, or how it would actually contribute to a meaningful reduction in workload.

It also ignores the fact that a new TV deal has recently been agreed so any changes could only begin in 2022, by which time a whole lot more water will have passed under the bridge.

In short, I would pay very little attention to it and I certainly wouldn't jump on it as toys being thrown out of the pram or saying PRL are a joke.

It's nonsense but people just love it.

Who cares about a complete lack or ignorance of facts, they want their big bad guys that they can make jokes about and pretend their decisions are down to Irish teams winning.

It's the closest equivalent some people get to the popcorn-munching superhero movie experience, so let them have at it. Let them eat cake.

pickarooney · 02-04-2018 9:15pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

That’s not what I said...

Let’s have a Pro 14 vs a French or English club every year.

We had just that this weekend. I'm not sure either game would have been a worthy final.

Neil3030 · 02-04-2018 9:16pm

Yeah, at the moment it's just one consideration to combat a larger top flight. But I really can't see the Premiership expanding to 14 teams in a ring-fenced league. It will create a glut of meaningless fixtures outside of those involving a handful of teams each year. Unless they have very strong financial incentives for final league position. In which case they may as well just keep the relegation format.

prawnsambo · 02-04-2018 9:18pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's nonsense but people just love it.

Who cares about a complete lack or ignorance of facts, they want their big bad guys that they can make jokes about and pretend their decisions are down to Irish teams winning.

It's the closest equivalent some people get to the popcorn-munching superhero movie experience, so let them have at it. Let them eat cake.

What's the equivalent to bread in your analogy?

irishbucsfan · 02-04-2018 9:22pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

What's the equivalent to bread in your analogy?

I hadn't thought that far ahead and regretted it when I did!

Maybe it's the act of actually waiting for even a single quote, a single name, or anything of any remote significance. That should probably be the staple diet.

LeinsterDub · 02-04-2018 9:27pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I hadn't thought that far ahead and regretted it when I did!

Maybe it's the act of actually waiting for even a single quote, a single name, or anything of any remote significance. That should probably be the staple diet.

The Guardian is a well respected paper of record. This is most likely a calculated PR move by PRL in their on going battle with their union.

pickarooney · 02-04-2018 9:27pm

Who needs bread when you have circuses?

prawnsambo · 02-04-2018 9:31pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Who needs bread when you have circuses?

You have to have both. According to the Romans anyway. But we're getting our historical references all mixed up.

irishbucsfan · 02-04-2018 9:39pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The Guardian is a well respected paper of record. This is most likely a calculated PR move by PRL in their on going battle with their union.

I thought it was the Telegraph that was their mouthpiece. I believe the Guardian is under the control of Hydra, but it's certainly possible they are working together. This might be a big PR move ahead of the next Avengers movie.

LeinsterDub · 02-04-2018 10:06pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I thought it was the Telegraph that was their mouthpiece. I believe the Guardian is under the control of Hydra, but it's certainly possible they are working together. This might be a big PR move ahead of the next Avengers movie.

You said above you weren't going to take part in this conversation. Perhaps you should take your own advice if you're just going to talk nonsense.

Try_harder · 02-04-2018 11:13pm

Someone scared the investors

https://twitter.com/mikepullen1969/status/980923619042910208?s=21

Dubinusa · 02-04-2018 11:24pm

Losing millions every year!!! Apparently only 2 clubs in the pl are somewhat fiscally responsible.
Gobshytes

03-04-2018 12:43am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I hadn't thought that far ahead and regretted it when I did!

Maybe it's the act of actually waiting for even a single quote, a single name, or anything of any remote significance. That should probably be the staple diet.

Yes, waiting until we get more information before completely flying off the handle is generally a good idea alright!

swiwi_ · 03-04-2018 5:30am

.ak wrote: »

The last time we met in Europe was 2009.

It's a rare gem, and trust me, there would be fireworks. Nothing like the usual pro14 derby.

Having said that, I do agree I think the allure of beating the top club from another country on neutral ground in a European final.

Yeah, I'm in no way pro the English and French clubs or anti the Pro 14. I just think the whole point of the European Cup is to have competitive sides from across all of the leagues.

I think the quality of rugby this season from the English & French clubs has generally been pretty poor, especially considering how much money they throw on salaries. The first 2 semi-finals were pretty drab affairs - it was great grit from Munster, but they offered very little on attack, and needed Conway's brilliance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

If Leinster and Munster do meet, I would expect a fairly one-sided final - at the moment Munster are more of a team where many of the players who in themselves are not particularly brilliant do manage to play well together for each other, but I don't think that would be enough against Leinster's class - if you're a Leinster fan how many Munster players make your side? Murray definitely, Earls I would say, possibly a hooker, and POM/CJS would be in the mix too, but it's not like Leinster is weak in the back row.

In any case, I would say for either Munster or Leinster, beating Toulon or Saracens in a final would probably bring more satisfaction than beating Scarlets for example.

swiwi_ · 03-04-2018 5:34am

Personally, I would be delighted if the English & French unions bought up their clubs en masse. It's what should have happened (or at least central contracts) in 1995, and it's the reason there's so much wage inflation, and why the SH (but also the Pro 14) continue to lose players en masse to the English & French club scene...without necessarily bring a much better standard of rugby.

prawnsambo · 03-04-2018 8:12am

swiwi_ wrote: »

Personally, I would be delighted if the English & French unions bought up their clubs en masse. It's what should have happened (or at least central contracts) in 1995, and it's the reason there's so much wage inflation, and why the SH (but also the Pro 14) continue to lose players en masse to the English & French club scene...without necessarily bring a much better standard of rugby.

It's probably hurt the ENglish clubs more than the French ones. Ten years ago, the French clubs had budgets in excess of €30 million. The sugar daddies seem to have stayed in for the long haul and they appear to be able to afford their massive wage bills. And there isn't a massive gap to the next division in terms of budgets either.

But the English clubs are trying to compete with that within a salary cap and that's tended to reduce squad sizes as the salaries go up. Which is then having a knock on effect on injuries and squad depth.

molloyjh · 04-04-2018 12:59pm

From what I can see on this these are just exploratory talks about how to manage the possibility of ring fencing the AP. Which is the bit I find funniest after we were told for years about how our league was inferior and gave us unfair advantages because we didn't have relegation.

I also find it somewhat interesting that, according to the reports, the whole idea of player welfare is an issue for possible expansion to 14 teams and that the only answer to that (as per the reports) is to get everyone else to change to suit them as opposed to look at how their set-up is structured for the answers.

It could all be complete nonsense of course. Or all completely true and none of it come to pass. The idea that the Champions Cup has lost it's "allure" is also amusing. I wonder is that just creative writing or did it come from somewhere? The English clubs were the primary instigators of this new format and have done well out of it. If this is a more widely held belief amongst the AP clubs then they should be collectively told where to go.

Even if any of this does materialise into an actual demand for change, I can't see it getting any support. The French manage their players by not giving a toss about most away games, so player welfare isn't an issue for them. I can't see why they would agree to a reduction in income so that the English could focus on their own league. Why would anyone agree to that? Other than the Welsh of course.....

PRL at it again

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