London murder rate overtakes New York for the first time ever

RayCun · 02-04-2018 08:18AM

Dr Brown wrote: »

People laughed at Enoch Powell but he has been proven right.

If people had listened to Enoch Powell London would not be the way it is today.

People didn't laugh, they told that racist ****head to **** off.

pleas advice · 02-04-2018 08:47AM

First time EVER though? I doubt it

Shenshen · 02-04-2018 09:20AM

Dr Brown wrote: »

People laughed at Enoch Powell but he has been proven right.

If people had listened to Enoch Powell London would not be the way it is today.

I could be wrong, but to as far as I know New York is a far more diverse city than London, and - with regards to Enoch Powell's particular preferences - has a much higher black population.
And yet, as per the OP's article, it's now the safer city.

So if that makes you think Enoch Powell was right, you'll have to give me a few more details on your thought process and how you reached that particular conclusion?

Ralf and Florian · 02-04-2018 09:26AM

RayCun wrote: »

Actually, more murders in New York this year than in London (50 to 48) , and London is slightly larger. But that doesn't sell papers, or appeal to islamophobes.

Who mentioned Islam?

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 09:27AM

Shenshen wrote: »

I could be wrong, but to as far as I know New York is a far more diverse city than London, and - with regards to Enoch Powell's particular preferences - has a much higher black population.
And yet, as per the OP's article, it's now the safer city.

So if that makes you think Enoch Powell was right, you'll have to give me a few more details on your thought process and how you reached that particular conclusion?

Nah London is more multicultural than New York, it has a wider degree of diversity amongst nationalities and the majority of the city was born abroad.

You're spot on about Powell though, horrible bigoted bastard that he was. He also ended up a Unionist MP in Ireland presiding over institutional sectarianism. Lovely chap.

Shenshen · 02-04-2018 09:39AM

FTA69 wrote: »

Nah London is more multicultural than New York, it has a wider degree of diversity amongst nationalities and the majority of the city was born abroad.

You're spot on about Powell though, horrible bigoted bastard that he was. He also ended up a Unionist MP in Ireland presiding over institutional sectarianism. Lovely chap.

Sorry, but that just doesn't tally with the facts.

New York :

White : 44.7%
Black : 26.6%
Asian : 9.8%
Hispanic : 27%

London :

White : 59.8%
Asian : 18.5%
Black : 13.3%
Mixed : 4.9%
Other : 3.44%

Now, granted, New York's biggest minority is bigger than London's, and it certainly would be interesting to look into the breakdown of each of those groups. But London is still a majority white city, New York hasn't been for a while.

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 09:48AM

The majority of blacks and Latinos in New York are are American born and bred, non-Americans make up around a quarter of New York but non-British make up the majority of London with a greater diversity amongst the nationalities that make up that majority. I would say a city that is majority foreign could be classed as more multicultural than one which isn't.

Obviously there's two ways of looking at it but 'multicultural' doesn't apply to skin colour alone.

Icepick · 02-04-2018 09:57AM

quintana76 wrote: »

London has a Mayor who says that terrorism is just a normal part of modern urban life just like parking charges and that everyone should just get used to it. Most stabbing murders are acknowledged to be black on black. Very inconvenient that as it doesn't fit in with the liberal diversity agenda as espoused by the said Mayor. It also means that the Police are wasting time and effort searching elsewhere so as not be seen to focus on one particular community. It will only get worse.

not true

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/the-police-gangs-unit-behind-a-dramatic-knife-crime-drop-in-one-london-borough-a3802096.html

paw patrol · 02-04-2018 09:58AM

London's current problem is that the mayor is using his position as a stepping stone for bigger political roles...he has taken his eye off the ball and has been seduced by his media platform into giving opinions far beyond his brief.
He has an erection for Donald Trump for example. I'd ask what has Donald Trump got to do with running London?
None.
Yet our hero Khan is continually spouting nonsense about Trump in the media when he should be running his city.

boombang · 02-04-2018 09:58AM

I'm always amazed by the lack of ability of the media to deal honestly about the issues of race and violent crime in London. In particular, there seems to be a major aversion to talking about the role of black youth in crime.

Previous post says London is 13.3% black, whereas another source quoted indicates 38% of the acid attack perps are black. That seems pretty disproportionate to me, but nobody wants to touch that issue apart from racists. This then means you've got no ability to deal with the issue in an honest and constructive manner.

I went to a boys comprehensive school in London in the 1990s. Nobody wanted to talk about the behaviour problems in black boys when they hit age 15. I think that PC censorship is bad for everybody, black boys included.

dav3 · 02-04-2018 10:17AM

paw patrol wrote: »

Yet our hero Khan is continually spouting nonsense about Trump in the media when he should be running his city.

What a strange turn of phrase for an Irish forum. Have you forgotten where you are again?

Shenshen · 02-04-2018 10:21AM

FTA69 wrote: »

The majority of blacks and Latinos in New York are are American born and bred, non-Americans make up around a quarter of New York but non-British make up the majority of London with a greater diversity amongst the nationalities that make up that majority. I would say a city that is majority foreign could be classed as more multicultural than one which isn't.

Obviously there's two ways of looking at it but 'multicultural' doesn't apply to skin colour alone.

Interesting statement, I've been trying for nearly an hour now to find a breakdown of the population of New York by nationality rather than by race alone, but with no success.

What I did find are numbers for London - out of a total population of 8.8 million, 3.2 are "foreign-born" . Unfortunately, this doesn't then go into any sort of detail as to where "foreign" is, but tied together with another set of statistics on the same page, I would estimate it to break down into the top 10 non-nationals roughly as follows:

Polish : 262k
Indian : 107k
Irish : 100k
Portuguese : 68k
Romanian : 66k
Italian : 61k
Lithuanian : 55k
Pakistani : 53k
French : 51k
Spain : 46k

It is certainly multi-cultural, but with a very, very distinct European slant nevertheless.

kevinandrew · 02-04-2018 10:22AM

London has seen its Metropolitan Police force slashed in recent months, it's on course to be its smallest in two decades and has seen stations around the capital shut in favour of a more centralised operation. My local borough has gone from having three dedicated stations to just one and now that is at risk of closure in favour of a "tri-borough" hub which would be expected to look after three London boroughs on its own!

I'm no fan of Sadiq Kahn but he's been warning about the effect these government cuts would have on the capital since last summer, the Home Secretary Amber Rudd responded by telling the Met to just get on with it instead of moaning about cuts. Cheers love, really helpful.

We need more police, with stronger powers and the proper resources to protect, deter and detain. Right now the well publicised cuts are leaving London wide open for criminals, gangs and violence. If London is in for a long hot summer, the Met is seriously going to struggle as crime rates tend to rise in summer months, particularly if the weather is very good.

Yamanoto · 02-04-2018 10:22AM

RayCun wrote: »

People didn't laugh, they told that racist ****head to **** off.

A Gallup poll, taken some weeks after Powell's speech, showed 74% of respondents in agreement with his position. He was scoffed at by the political classes for sure, but even steadfast Labour supporters in blue collar trades endorsed his calls to put an end to mass immigration.

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 10:36AM

Shenshen wrote: »

Interesting statement, I've been trying for nearly an hour now to find a breakdown of the population of New York by nationality rather than by race alone, but with no success.

What I did find are numbers for London - out of a total population of 8.8 million, 3.2 are "foreign-born" . Unfortunately, this doesn't then go into any sort of detail as to where "foreign" is, but tied together with another set of statistics on the same page, I would estimate it to break down into the top 10 non-nationals roughly as follows:

Polish : 262k
Indian : 107k
Irish : 100k
Portuguese : 68k
Romanian : 66k
Italian : 61k
Lithuanian : 55k
Pakistani : 53k
French : 51k
Spain : 46k

It is certainly multi-cultural, but with a very, very distinct European slant nevertheless.

How old are those figures because the main talking point over here the past while in regards to the city's demographics is that British people are a minority.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

wexie · 02-04-2018 10:45AM

FTA69 wrote: »

How old are those figures because the main talking point over here the past while in regards to the city's demographics is that British people are a minority.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

I'd be curious to see the breakdown of crime statistics for the 10 largest decreases mentioned in that article.

MayoSalmon · 02-04-2018 10:45AM

Lefty Mayor Khan can be blamed for that

Shenshen · 02-04-2018 10:54AM

FTA69 wrote: »

How old are those figures because the main talking point over here the past while in regards to the city's demographics is that British people are a minority.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

As per the webpage I linked to, 21st of Feb 2017

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 10:56AM

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Lefty Mayor Khan can be blamed for that

Can we blame massive Tory cuts to policing as well as youth services and education as well or is that not simplistic enough?

dav3 · 02-04-2018 10:56AM

FTA69 wrote: »

The majority of blacks and Latinos in New York are are American born and bred, non-Americans make up around a quarter of New York but non-British make up the majority of London with a greater diversity amongst the nationalities that make up that majority. I would say a city that is majority foreign could be classed as more multicultural than one which isn't.

Obviously there's two ways of looking at it but 'multicultural' doesn't apply to skin colour alone.

FTA69 wrote: »

How old are those figures because the main talking point over here the past while in regards to the city's demographics is that British people are a minority.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

Are you on a wind up here or are you being serious?

Ulysses Gaze · 02-04-2018 11:04AM

FTA69 wrote: »

Can we blame massive Tory cuts to policing as well as youth services and education as well or is that not simplistic enough?

That is a factor.

But Khan and Met Police Chief Cressida Dick have decided to employ 900 police officers in a Hate Crime Unit to investigate online and physical hate crimes.

Would they not be better redeploying at least 75% of those officers onto the streets of London to investigate murders, stabbings, acid attacks and physical assaults?

Billy86 · 02-04-2018 11:10AM

So if London's murder rate continues for the rest of the year, they'll wind up on an estimated 180 murders. Out of a population of 7.8mn, that's a murder rate of 2 per 100,000, which is less than half of Dublin's in 2017 (5.4 per 100,000 - down from 7 per 100,000 in 2016, and this is before the whole scandal of Gardai underestimating numbers).

Surely our "law and order" posters won't try to completely ignore this or shift the goalposts, but they seem to wish Dublin was more like Sadiq Khan's London.

Oops69 · 02-04-2018 11:13AM

i find an undercurrent of aggression in London over the last few years , barely under the surface , if anything goes wrong like an unexpected queue at a tube station or unexpected traffic jam , things can get heated very quickly.

RayCun · 02-04-2018 11:14AM

FTA69 wrote: »

How old are those figures because the main talking point over here the past while in regards to the city's demographics is that British people are a minority.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

No, that would be you equating "British" and "white British". Not revealing at all.

About 36% of Londoners are foreign born (2011), exactly the same as New York (2009).

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 11:22AM

dav3 wrote: »

Are you on a wind up here or are you being serious?

Sorry, non-white British people are a minority in the city, should clarify that as it's an important difference.

Dyr · 02-04-2018 11:36AM

RayCun wrote: »

No, that would be you equating "British" and "white British". Not revealing at all.

About 36% of Londoners are foreign born (2011), exactly the same as New York (2009).

If they're foreign born then they're not Londoners then are they?

Spud gobblers don't get off the train in Connolly and just become Dubs do they?

Billy86 · 02-04-2018 11:42AM

Bambi wrote: »

If they're foreign born then they're not Londoners then are they?

Spud gobblers don't get off the train in Connolly and just become Dubs do they?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/londoner

Londoner
NOUN
A native or inhabitant of London.
‘the constantly changing lifestyles of Londoners’
Pronunciation

I know tonnes of people (including both my parents) who moved from the country to Dublin and would now consider themselves to be more from Dublin than their home county.

02-04-2018 11:52AM

Billy86 wrote: »

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/londoner

Londoner
NOUN
A native or inhabitant of London.
‘the constantly changing lifestyles of Londoners’
Pronunciation

I know tonnes of people (including both my parents) who moved from the country to Dublin and would now consider themselves to be more from Dublin than their home county.

Context matters.

If you're talking about traffic, "Londoners despair at the increased toll fees.", is fine to describe the inhabitants of a city.

The people you know from other countries simply shouldn't say they're from Dublin if they're asked where they're from, since place of birth is the actual context, just like the stats here.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 02-04-2018 11:54AM

Bambi wrote: »

If they're foreign born then they're not Londoners then are they?

Spud gobblers don't get off the train in Connolly and just become Dubs do they?

A cosmopolitan city doesn’t think like that. New Yorkers are people living in New York.

Harry Palmr · 02-04-2018 11:56AM

Billy86 wrote: »

So if London's murder rate continues for the rest of the year, they'll wind up on an estimated 180 murders. Out of a population of 7.8mn, that's a murder rate of 2 per 100,000, which is less than half of Dublin's in 2017 (5.4 per 100,000 - down from 7 per 100,000 in 2016, and this is before the whole scandal of Gardai underestimating numbers).

Surely our "law and order" posters won't try to completely ignore this or shift the goalposts, but they seem to wish Dublin was more like Sadiq Khan's London.

Sure given the latest story regarding Garda fiction it's hard to know how many people have been officially murdered here

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0328/950562-cso-crime-statistics/

London murder rate overtakes New York for the first time ever

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