London murder rate overtakes New York for the first time ever

SharpshooterTom

NYC authorities efforts to make the city safer over recent decades looks its paying off. NYC obviously had huge issues with crime in the 80s with large parts of the city back then having a fierce reputation. I think 9/11 knock on effect has helped build up law enforcement resources and its clearly working.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-murder-rate-overtakes-new-york-for-first-time-ever-after-spate-of-fatal-stabbings-and-a3803566.html

London looks like its going backwards however, real shame.

Is it really now safer to visit New York as tourist than London?? According to the statistics it is.

Hande hoche!

The moped crime is a bit mad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un780lEbQZI

Kermit.de.frog

Pretty bad alright. Is this a nationality issue (is there a breakdown?)?

I know there were serious issues with acid attacks in recent years.

It's just if we are going to "learn from the mistakes" elsewhere it's probably best we know whether this is connected to multiculturalism or not.

mikemac2

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I think 9/11 knock on effect has helped build up law enforcement resources and its clearly working.
.

Maybe but huge strides were made before then too in the late 1990’s

quintana76

London has a Mayor who says that terrorism is just a normal part of modern urban life just like parking charges and that everyone should just get used to it. Most stabbing murders are acknowledged to be black on black. Very inconvenient that as it doesn't fit in with the liberal diversity agenda as espoused by the said Mayor. It also means that the Police are wasting time and effort searching elsewhere so as not be seen to focus on one particular community. It will only get worse.

TheValeyard

mikemac2 wrote: »

Maybe but huge strides were made before then too in the late 1990’s

Yeah, remember in school our teacher looking at the train shootings in the 80s NYC and how it lead to social change over the 90s and onwards.

silverharp

PC's are too pc

4068ac1elhodqr

Hande hoche! wrote: »

The moped crime is a bit mad.

Few of them Honda50 lads stopped rush hour traffic last week after spotting a shinny shinny camera on the Putney bridge.



It's also possibly the acid attack capital of the world (about x500 last year).
'37,443' recorded knife offences the tabloids say, that can't be right?

BattleCorp

I blame the guns. The UK should ban handguns. Oh wait.......

RayCun

Actually, more murders in New York this year than in London (50 to 48) , and London is slightly larger. But that doesn't sell papers, or appeal to islamophobes.

dxhound2005

Why is it a story if 180 people will be murdered in London this year? The average is around 170 over the years. Chicago with a much smaller population will be over 600.

If there are fewer murders in say June and July you can be sure the papers won't report that.

2 Scoops

RayCun wrote: »

Actually, more murders in New York this year than in London (50 to 48) , and London is slightly larger. But that doesn't sell papers, or appeal to islamophobes.

Lol, are people still using this word in 2018?

Here are London's crime statistics for the previous year from the Mayor of London's police office, youth homicide jumped 70% . London has more acid attacks per capita than any other city in the world.

https://www.london.gov.uk/moderngov/documents/s67144/05b%20-%20Appendix%201%20-%20MOPAC%20Quarterly%20Report.pdf

SnakePlissken

RayCun wrote: »

Actually, more murders in New York this year than in London (50 to 48) , and London is slightly larger. But that doesn't sell papers, or appeal to islamophobes.

Only 48 murders in 3 months? Ah sure nothing to debate here so.

RayCun

It's very simple.

People talk about the London murder rate when they want to suggest war with Muslims.

But you can't forget your ordinary, everyday racism either, so you have to call back to 'black on black' crime every now and again.

Some people will always be ready with a reason to hate and fear non-white people.

Yer Da sells Avon

2 Scoops wrote: »

Lol, are people still using this word in 2018?

Here are London's crime statistics for the previous year from the Mayor of London's police office, youth homicide jumped 70% . London has more acid attacks per capita than any other city in the world.

It seems that people are still using that word, yes. In fact, the report you posted says that Islamophobic hate crime has risen by 26%. Maybe people will stop using it when it decreases by 100%

silverharp

RayCun wrote: »

Actually, more murders in New York this year than in London (50 to 48) , and London is slightly larger. But that doesn't sell papers, or appeal to islamophobes.

yet guns are freely available in the US, without checking i'd have been inclined to say london would be half ny. Weaker policing in London might be a reason with political pressure not to stop and search

RayCun

2 Scoops wrote: »

Lol, are people still using this word in 2018?

I'm happy to stick with 'racists', to be honest, since that's what it boils down to, though there's always whinging when people use that word.

dav3

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Is it really now safer to visit New York as tourist than London?? According to the statistics it is.

No, what statistics are you using?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-murder-rate-new-york-overtakes-stabbing-a8283866.html

While London remains substantially the safer city overall, with less than half the homicides of New York last year, according to a new report a recent spike in knife cirme meant February was the first month the UK capital was home to more murders than the US city.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics eh?

SharpshooterTom

dav3 wrote: »

No, what statistics are you using?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-murder-rate-new-york-overtakes-stabbing-a8283866.html

Lies, damned lies, and statistics eh?

From the statistics quoted in the article in my OP.

February marked the first month the UK capital saw more murders than New York, with 15 dead (nine aged 30 or younger).

According to the report in the Sunday Times, London also suffered 22 fatal stabbings and shootings in March, higher than the 21 in the Big Apple.

Both cities have similarly sized populations of around 8.5m people. New York City's murder rate has decreased by around 87 per cent since the 1990s.

2 Scoops

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

It seems that people are still using that word, yes. In fact, the report you posted says that Islamophobic hate crime has risen by 26%. Maybe people will stop using it when it decreases by 100%

Or perhaps when parents and communities start taking some responsibility for the actions of their youth.

2 Scoops

RayCun wrote: »

I'm happy to stick with 'racists', to be honest, since that's what it boils down to, though there's always whinging when people use that word.

How are statistics racist?

Kermit.de.frog

RayCun wrote: »

I'm happy to stick with 'racists', to be honest, since that's what it boils down to, though there's always whinging when people use that word.

The acid attacks in London boroughs are carried out by people whose descent is the Asian sub-continent.

Is this a racist thing to say?

RayCun

2 Scoops wrote: »

How are statistics racist?

People are racists.

For example, people who cherrypick statistics.

Yer Da sells Avon

2 Scoops wrote: »

Or perhaps when parents and communities start taking some responsibility for the actions of their youth.

As can be seen on After Hours, a lot of Islamophobes and racists are adults, so it's not up to their parents to take responsibility for their actions.

RayCun

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The acid attacks in London boroughs are carried out by people whose descent is the Asian sub-continent.

Is this a racist thing to say?

If you focus on one particular type of crime because of the people who most often commit it, yeah, that's often due to racism.

dav3

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

From the statistics quoted in the article in my OP.

The answer is still no.

2 Scoops

RayCun wrote: »

People are racists.

For example, people who cherrypick statistics.

Scotland yard are racists?

They released statistics that showed two thirds of shootings and more than half of violent street crimes committed in London were perpetrated by black men. 67% of those caught by Police for gun crimes were black.

SharpshooterTom

dav3 wrote: »

The answer is still no.

Ok, no need to shoot the messenger, I'm just quoting the article from a London newspaper and that's what it says.

silverharp

chances are in either city a tourist wouldnt be in the areas where these crimes are likely to occur so its a moot point. the police in london need to get their act together and do what needs to be done

2 Scoops

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

As can be seen on After Hours, a lot of Islamophobes and racists are adults, so it's not up to their parents to take responsibility for their actions.

Do you think the large amounts of immigrants from Muslim majority countries into Europe in the past 5-10 years has had a positive or negative effect both culturally and socially?

It's a simple question really.

SharpshooterTom

silverharp wrote: »

chances are in either city a tourist wouldnt be in the areas where these crimes are likely to occur so its a moot point. the police in london need to get their act together and do what needs to be done

I think a lot of people on British forums I post on are moaning about Tory cuts to the police whereas NYC has cops literally everywhere.

Harry Palmr

The murders as in most cities are geographically and socially specific, so most people need not worry.

How many are killed in Foxrock in Dublin, how many in Darndale?

Kermit.de.frog

RayCun wrote: »

If you focus on one particular type of crime because of the people who most often commit it, yeah, that's often due to racism.

What are you talking about?

I must be missing something. Acid attacks are carried out in London by gangs of youths whose descent is families from the Asian subcontinent (Pakistan/Bangladesh mostly).

That is a statement of fact. Check the data from the Metropolitan police.

How is pointing this out racist?

By the way this is not some random type of petty crime. It is up there as the single most worrying and violent crime epidemic for Londoners in recent years.

People are not stupid. They know the communities from which that spread and they have every right to be concerned.

silverharp

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I think a lot of people on British forums I post on are moaning about Tory cuts to the police whereas NYC has cops literally everywhere.

could be, US police are good at data driven policing down to block level so they are good at snuffing out gang violence for example, maybe the police in london have their hands tied.

Dyr

The thing the bould Sadiq would want to be wary of is that there's a tipping point where the middle class go "f**k that" and clear off out of it and once that happens its very hard to reverse the trend

Harry Palmr

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I think a lot of people on British forums I post on are moaning about Tory cuts to the police whereas NYC has cops literally everywhere.

silverharp wrote: »

could be, US police are good at data driven policing down to block level so they are good at snuffing out gang violence for example, maybe the police in london have their hands tied.

The Unites States is practically a police state at this stage. The budgets they have are vast and so are the powers thanks to the Homeland act. Obviously being a federal country States and Cities all do their own thing

https://www.statista.com/chart/10593/how-much-do-us-cities-spend-on-policing/

New York City $4.9 bn

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2017/12/19/fact-sheet-police-funding-for-2018-19-explained/

London met 2017 £2,510 bn

Kermit.de.frog

Comparing police forces in the US to those in a far smaller place with far less resources like the UK is not a valid comparison in my opinion.

Harry Palmr

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Comparing police forces in the US to those in a far smaller place with far less resources like the UK is not a valid comparison in my opinion.

London v New York - about the same population, both rich with poor enclaves, both very mixed ethnically.

New York City $4.9 bn

London $3.51 bn

Kermit.de.frog

Harry Palmr wrote: »

London v New York - about the same population, both rich with poor enclaves, both very mixed ethnically.

New York is physically a bigger city, it has a grid road system which defacto makes policing less ponderous, it has more practical resources committed to fighting crime and can also rely on the Federal government (FBI etc).

Chalk and cheese compared to this part of the world.

Not saying London is not well policed by the way. It is. Just not the same, less resources.

The extent the US operates on a different plane in terms of scale and resources in this and so many things compared to the rest of the world is stark. It's not comparable.

France a much better place to compare directly with UK in my opinion.

SEPT 23 1989

New York was able to get its house in order long before the PC crap arrived

London hasn't a hope in today's climate

Yer Da sells Avon

2 Scoops wrote: »

Do you think the large amounts of immigrants from Muslim majority countries into Europe in the past 5-10 years has had a positive or negative effect both culturally and socially?

It's a simple question really.

I'll go for Option C, if that's ok. It has had a neutral effect. The vast majority of people, whatever their race or religion, are grand.

AllForIt

A commentator in the UK said that in the case of youth knife crime, apparently they are goading each other via youtube and social media which apparently aids these degenerates to more easily become aware of and find each other which is responsible in part at least for the increase in these crimes. Makes sense to me. Answer: take the phones of them, parents.

RayCun wrote: »

If you focus on one particular type of crime because of the people who most often commit it, yeah, that's often due to racism.

I know it's not helpful in a discussion forum to respond with "that a ridiculous point"...but just this once I'll say - that is a ridiculous point. It also irritated me quite a bit.

FTA69

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The acid attacks in London boroughs are carried out by people whose descent is the Asian sub-continent.

Is this a racist thing to say?

Well it's incorrect as a lot of them are black gang-related, some are moped robbers and some are white. The (white) boyfriend of some wan off Made in Essex or some sh*t was done for a horrendous one in a nightclub recently.

The notion that the use of acid and chemicals in attacks is a Muslim thing is untrue nowadays.

FTA69

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What are you talking about?

I must be missing something. Acid attacks are carried out in London by gangs of youths whose descent is families from the Asian subcontinent (Pakistan/Bangladesh mostly).

That is a statement of fact. Check the data from the Metropolitan police.

How is pointing this out racist?

By the way this is not some random type of petty crime. It is up there as the single most worrying and violent crime epidemic for Londoners in recent years.

People are not stupid. They know the communities from which that spread and they have every right to be concerned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/5d38c003-c54a-4513-a369-f9eae0d52f91

6% of acid suspects in London are Asian.

Kermit spoofing again.

AllForIt

FTA69 wrote: »

Well it's incorrect as a lot of them are black gang-related, some are moped robbers and some are white. The (white) boyfriend of some wan off Made in Essex or some sh*t was done for a horrendous one in a nightclub recently.

It's also true thought that some of these youths are not part of gangs. That is because they no longer need to be part of a gang to find trouble, they can just follow stuff and things on the internet as I mentioned in my last post.

Yer Da sells Avon

FTA69 wrote: »

Kermit spoofing again.

Not racist though. Remember that. The first rule of After Hours is that nothing is ever racist.

FTA69

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Not racist though. Remember that. The first rule of After Hours is that nothing is ever racist.

God forbid. No agenda of prejudice there whatsoever. The sad thing is that violence is a real concern in London and it's bad enough without people trying to crowbar their obvious dislike or distrust of some communities into it.

The majority of victims and perpetrators of knife crime in London are black from what I can gather (but all communities are represented in it, nobody is immune). A key reason for that in my opinion is that this sort of violence is concentrated in certain communities that have a disproportionately high population of black people and in those communities you're far more likely to find poverty, fatherlessness and the other societal factors that drive such crime.

That having been said, there's also a disturbing trend amongst sections of black youth to buy into a certain culture of machismo and the likes of social media and music can often perpetuate that. Many would suggest that this music is simply a reflection of reality but I'd contend it actively fuels it. I used to be a boxing coach in Walthamstow for two years and was constantly coming up against this attitude amongst the young lads. Likewise Im living with a West Indian woman and facing the prospect of raising a mixed race (which is the same as black essentially) child in an area with one of the worst gang issues in London.

It's worrying stuff.

JohnMc1

quintana76 wrote: »

London has a Mayor who says that terrorism is just a normal part of modern urban life just like parking charges and that everyone should just get used to it. Most stabbing murders are acknowledged to be black on black. Very inconvenient that as it doesn't fit in with the liberal diversity agenda as espoused by the said Mayor. It also means that the Police are wasting time and effort searching elsewhere so as not be seen to focus on one particular community. It will only get worse.

British Police are too busy locking up people for mean tweets [or tweeting the truth about Islam] to actually do their jobs.

JohnMc1

FTA69 wrote: »

God forbid. No agenda of prejudice there whatsoever. The sad thing is that violence is a real concern in London and it's bad enough without people trying to crowbar their obvious dislike or distrust of some communities into it.

When crimes increase as the population of a certain group/s grow you can't blame people for being weary about them. Especially when the Irish Govt wants to start importing them at a rate of 50K a year [as part of his 2040 plan]

no.8

RayCun wrote:

Actually, more murders in New York this year than in London (50 to 48) , and London is slightly larger. But that doesn't sell papers, or appeal to islamophobes.

YAWWWWN

Jamie2k9

Not a surprise when police powers have been reduced (and numbers cut) and of course the wonderful Mayor is more concerned about Trump coming than what's going on in his city.

Its like the police not been allowed to give chase to moped gangs with no helmets in case they kill the poor angles.

Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
chances are in either city a tourist wouldnt be in the areas where these crimes are likely to occur so its a moot point. the police in london need to get their act together and do what needs to be done

Not true, one or two have taken place in rather busy tourist areas.