London murder rate overtakes New York for the first time ever

Harry Palmr · 01-04-2018 10:29PM

The murders as in most cities are geographically and socially specific, so most people need not worry.

How many are killed in Foxrock in Dublin, how many in Darndale?

Kermit.de.frog · 01-04-2018 10:31PM

RayCun wrote: »

If you focus on one particular type of crime because of the people who most often commit it, yeah, that's often due to racism.

What are you talking about?

I must be missing something. Acid attacks are carried out in London by gangs of youths whose descent is families from the Asian subcontinent (Pakistan/Bangladesh mostly).

That is a statement of fact. Check the data from the Metropolitan police.

How is pointing this out racist?

By the way this is not some random type of petty crime. It is up there as the single most worrying and violent crime epidemic for Londoners in recent years.

People are not stupid. They know the communities from which that spread and they have every right to be concerned.

silverharp · 01-04-2018 10:32PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I think a lot of people on British forums I post on are moaning about Tory cuts to the police whereas NYC has cops literally everywhere.

could be, US police are good at data driven policing down to block level so they are good at snuffing out gang violence for example, maybe the police in london have their hands tied.

Dyr · 01-04-2018 10:37PM

The thing the bould Sadiq would want to be wary of is that there's a tipping point where the middle class go "f**k that" and clear off out of it and once that happens its very hard to reverse the trend

Harry Palmr · 01-04-2018 10:38PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I think a lot of people on British forums I post on are moaning about Tory cuts to the police whereas NYC has cops literally everywhere.

silverharp wrote: »

could be, US police are good at data driven policing down to block level so they are good at snuffing out gang violence for example, maybe the police in london have their hands tied.

The Unites States is practically a police state at this stage. The budgets they have are vast and so are the powers thanks to the Homeland act. Obviously being a federal country States and Cities all do their own thing

https://www.statista.com/chart/10593/how-much-do-us-cities-spend-on-policing/

New York City $4.9 bn

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2017/12/19/fact-sheet-police-funding-for-2018-19-explained/

London met 2017 £2,510 bn

Kermit.de.frog · 01-04-2018 10:44PM

Comparing police forces in the US to those in a far smaller place with far less resources like the UK is not a valid comparison in my opinion.

Harry Palmr · 01-04-2018 10:48PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Comparing police forces in the US to those in a far smaller place with far less resources like the UK is not a valid comparison in my opinion.

London v New York - about the same population, both rich with poor enclaves, both very mixed ethnically.

New York City $4.9 bn

London $3.51 bn

Kermit.de.frog · 01-04-2018 10:52PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

London v New York - about the same population, both rich with poor enclaves, both very mixed ethnically.

New York is physically a bigger city, it has a grid road system which defacto makes policing less ponderous, it has more practical resources committed to fighting crime and can also rely on the Federal government (FBI etc).

Chalk and cheese compared to this part of the world.

Not saying London is not well policed by the way. It is. Just not the same, less resources.

The extent the US operates on a different plane in terms of scale and resources in this and so many things compared to the rest of the world is stark. It's not comparable.

France a much better place to compare directly with UK in my opinion.

SEPT 23 1989 · 01-04-2018 11:01PM

New York was able to get its house in order long before the PC crap arrived

London hasn't a hope in today's climate

Yer Da sells Avon · 01-04-2018 11:22PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

Do you think the large amounts of immigrants from Muslim majority countries into Europe in the past 5-10 years has had a positive or negative effect both culturally and socially?

It's a simple question really.

I'll go for Option C, if that's ok. It has had a neutral effect. The vast majority of people, whatever their race or religion, are grand.

AllForIt · 01-04-2018 11:48PM

A commentator in the UK said that in the case of youth knife crime, apparently they are goading each other via youtube and social media which apparently aids these degenerates to more easily become aware of and find each other which is responsible in part at least for the increase in these crimes. Makes sense to me. Answer: take the phones of them, parents.

RayCun wrote: »

If you focus on one particular type of crime because of the people who most often commit it, yeah, that's often due to racism.

I know it's not helpful in a discussion forum to respond with "that a ridiculous point"...but just this once I'll say - that is a ridiculous point. It also irritated me quite a bit.

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 12:00AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The acid attacks in London boroughs are carried out by people whose descent is the Asian sub-continent.

Is this a racist thing to say?

Well it's incorrect as a lot of them are black gang-related, some are moped robbers and some are white. The (white) boyfriend of some wan off Made in Essex or some sh*t was done for a horrendous one in a nightclub recently.

The notion that the use of acid and chemicals in attacks is a Muslim thing is untrue nowadays.

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 12:02AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What are you talking about?

I must be missing something. Acid attacks are carried out in London by gangs of youths whose descent is families from the Asian subcontinent (Pakistan/Bangladesh mostly).

That is a statement of fact. Check the data from the Metropolitan police.

How is pointing this out racist?

By the way this is not some random type of petty crime. It is up there as the single most worrying and violent crime epidemic for Londoners in recent years.

People are not stupid. They know the communities from which that spread and they have every right to be concerned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/5d38c003-c54a-4513-a369-f9eae0d52f91

6% of acid suspects in London are Asian.

Kermit spoofing again.

AllForIt · 02-04-2018 12:04AM

FTA69 wrote: »

Well it's incorrect as a lot of them are black gang-related, some are moped robbers and some are white. The (white) boyfriend of some wan off Made in Essex or some sh*t was done for a horrendous one in a nightclub recently.

It's also true thought that some of these youths are not part of gangs. That is because they no longer need to be part of a gang to find trouble, they can just follow stuff and things on the internet as I mentioned in my last post.

Yer Da sells Avon · 02-04-2018 12:04AM

FTA69 wrote: »

Kermit spoofing again.

Not racist though. Remember that. The first rule of After Hours is that nothing is ever racist.

FTA69 · 02-04-2018 12:13AM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Not racist though. Remember that. The first rule of After Hours is that nothing is ever racist.

God forbid. No agenda of prejudice there whatsoever. The sad thing is that violence is a real concern in London and it's bad enough without people trying to crowbar their obvious dislike or distrust of some communities into it.

The majority of victims and perpetrators of knife crime in London are black from what I can gather (but all communities are represented in it, nobody is immune). A key reason for that in my opinion is that this sort of violence is concentrated in certain communities that have a disproportionately high population of black people and in those communities you're far more likely to find poverty, fatherlessness and the other societal factors that drive such crime.

That having been said, there's also a disturbing trend amongst sections of black youth to buy into a certain culture of machismo and the likes of social media and music can often perpetuate that. Many would suggest that this music is simply a reflection of reality but I'd contend it actively fuels it. I used to be a boxing coach in Walthamstow for two years and was constantly coming up against this attitude amongst the young lads. Likewise Im living with a West Indian woman and facing the prospect of raising a mixed race (which is the same as black essentially) child in an area with one of the worst gang issues in London.

It's worrying stuff.

JohnMc1 · 02-04-2018 12:18AM

quintana76 wrote: »

London has a Mayor who says that terrorism is just a normal part of modern urban life just like parking charges and that everyone should just get used to it. Most stabbing murders are acknowledged to be black on black. Very inconvenient that as it doesn't fit in with the liberal diversity agenda as espoused by the said Mayor. It also means that the Police are wasting time and effort searching elsewhere so as not be seen to focus on one particular community. It will only get worse.

British Police are too busy locking up people for mean tweets [or tweeting the truth about Islam] to actually do their jobs.

JohnMc1 · 02-04-2018 12:40AM

FTA69 wrote: »

God forbid. No agenda of prejudice there whatsoever. The sad thing is that violence is a real concern in London and it's bad enough without people trying to crowbar their obvious dislike or distrust of some communities into it.

When crimes increase as the population of a certain group/s grow you can't blame people for being weary about them. Especially when the Irish Govt wants to start importing them at a rate of 50K a year [as part of his 2040 plan]

no.8 · 02-04-2018 01:01AM

RayCun wrote:

Actually, more murders in New York this year than in London (50 to 48) , and London is slightly larger. But that doesn't sell papers, or appeal to islamophobes.

YAWWWWN

Jamie2k9 · 02-04-2018 01:05AM

Not a surprise when police powers have been reduced (and numbers cut) and of course the wonderful Mayor is more concerned about Trump coming than what's going on in his city.

Its like the police not been allowed to give chase to moped gangs with no helmets in case they kill the poor angles.

Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
chances are in either city a tourist wouldnt be in the areas where these crimes are likely to occur so its a moot point. the police in london need to get their act together and do what needs to be done

Not true, one or two have taken place in rather busy tourist areas.

bobbysands81 · 02-04-2018 01:07AM

Says nothing to me about my life.

no.8 · 02-04-2018 01:09AM

RayCun wrote:

I'm happy to stick with 'racists', to be honest, since that's what it boils down to, though there's always whinging when people use that word.

Always convenient to throw the thread off and use the racist card again. I think it's a crime to be a white male these days, honestly.
GTF back on topic or leave the thread please (with some level of respect and dignity remaining).

no.8 · 02-04-2018 01:13AM

RayCun wrote:

If you focus on one particular type of crime because of the people who most often commit it, yeah, that's often due to racism.

Oh so let's just ignore certain types of crime because it offends you. If its a type of crime associated typically with Caucasian males, then by all means publish that. Hypocrisy at its highest level

Franz Von Peppercorn · 02-04-2018 01:14AM

Interesting that these attacks are blamed on Asians or Islam. Neither is true

Yer Da sells Avon · 02-04-2018 01:15AM

no.8 wrote: »

I think it's a crime to be a white male these days, honestly.

"These days, if you say you're English, you get arrested and thrown in jail..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI

drillyeye · 02-04-2018 01:15AM

London is a dump, the way most cities are allowed to head these days. Its only natural that its ahead of the curve.

Dr Brown · 02-04-2018 01:18AM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

NYC authorities efforts to make the city safer over recent decades looks its paying off. NYC obviously had huge issues with crime in the 80s with large parts of the city back then having a fierce reputation. I think 9/11 knock on effect has helped build up law enforcement resources and its clearly working.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-murder-rate-overtakes-new-york-for-first-time-ever-after-spate-of-fatal-stabbings-and-a3803566.html

London looks like its going backwards however, real shame.

Is it really now safer to visit New York as tourist than London?? According to the statistics it is.

People laughed at Enoch Powell but he has been proven right.

If people had listened to Enoch Powell London would not be the way it is today.

2 Scoops · 02-04-2018 01:29AM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I'll go for Option C, if that's ok. It has had a neutral effect. The vast majority of people, whatever their race or religion, are grand.

Then imo you're living in cloud cuckoo land. It is by far the biggest problem Europe has faced post war. I see no positives, only crime, street gangs, unemployment, parallel communities and terrorism. There is a correlated link between rising crime rates in European countries and immigration, studies as recent as January in Germany prove that.

We all have to have heart, a lot of these people were dealt a bad hand, I get that, but Western value and culture needs to remain and despite these neo Marxist authoritarians in positions of power pretending such problems don't exist, the majority of Europeans want to end it. You are entitled to what you believe, we live in a free society.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/08/europes-fear-of-muslim-immigration-revealed-in-widespread-survey.html

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-04-2018 01:29AM

Much of it is gang related, though some are just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, like the last chap just walking home in Wandsworth.
12 in just the last 19 days, and 31 since 2018.

Commissioner (Ms. Dick), implies its all due to social media sites
- not budget cuts, or the reduction in stop n search, or having less bobbies on the streets then?

cooperguy · 02-04-2018 01:42AM

no.8 wrote: »

Oh so let's just ignore certain types of crime because it offends you. If its a type of crime associated typically with Caucasian males, then by all means publish that. Hypocrisy at its highest level

No, but concentrating on one type of crime increase when all crime is increasing is clearly a biased view.

London murder rate overtakes New York for the first time ever

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