Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Rodin · 01-04-2018 12:35AM

irishrebe wrote: »

Yes, because historically, society was so sexist that women weren't even referred to as people at all, most of the time. 'He' was the default pronoun. I suppose that's also women's fault, is it?

I don't recall saying anything was women's fault so your use of the word 'also' is null and void.

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:35AM

irishrebe wrote: »

Yes, because historically, society was so sexist that women weren't even referred to as people at all, most of the time. 'He' was the default pronoun. I suppose that's also women's fault, is it?

Really how did that work with languages that mescaline and feminine.

Rodin · 01-04-2018 12:35AM

irishrebe wrote: »

I'm saying you have to be seriously thick to believe that all cases of sexual assault (or any crime, really) lead to convictions.

No conviction? No crime.

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:37AM

irishrebe wrote: »

I'm saying you have to be seriously thick to believe that all cases of sexual assault (or any crime, really) lead to convictions.

OK, So in the last year could you give us a number of Trails that have not come to the right conclusion ? Why even have courts ?

hill16bhoy · 01-04-2018 12:37AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Lack of evidence is your problem.

Care to show some that indicates that our society is one where rape is considered normal and is tolerated?

Perhaps you are posting from some part of India or the middle East?

Yeah, the Hill 16 in my name is a reference to a hill just outside Bangalore rather than a terrace in Croke Park.

Another poster sort of made the point for me.

Things that do constitute rape are tolerated because those that tolerate them are so bloody ignorant that they don't even know what rape is.

Much of men's everyday sexual terminology is violent. "I destroyed her, I ploughed her, smashed her, pumped her".

The use of the word "bitch" or "bitches" or "sluts".

The use of animals to symbolise women. A pig on a spit as a symbol for what the defendants in the Belfast trail were doing. "Dog" and "cow" are regularised terms men use.

The notion that sex is something to be inflicted on a woman by a man.

The notion that it's fine to continually pester a woman who doesn't want your attention in the hope that she will "put out".

The notion that if a woman doesn't scream or fight, it can't be rape. Wrong.

The notion that if a woman asks their attacker in desperation to "at least use a condom", that amounts to consent. Wrong.

The notion that if a woman consents to kissing that that amounts to consent to sex. Wrong.

The deliberately mendacious assertions after this trial that the woman was "lying" and the disgusting, boorish clamour to publicly out her.

The constant belittling of women (and men) who felt the need to protest.

All of this and far more I haven't mentioned represents rape culture.

I know this because when I was my late teens and 20s I sadly laboured under quite a few of the misapprehensions and ignorant beliefs that I've just mentioned.

Silentcorner · 01-04-2018 12:37AM

emeraldwinter wrote: »

Where is this coming from ? Figures, Or is it it's not reported but actually reported but not taken to the police ?

I am working off the figures posted earlier by someone else, there were 2,500 reports of rape/sexual assault...59 made it to court...we have a conviction rate of about 6/7%...

I don't think it is too much of a stretch to think that half of these sexual assaults are not reported...

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:37AM

_Dara_ wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Of course it is. There are always saps around. Idiots like that don't represent all women any more than misogynist trolls speak for all men.

Well, you know, that person was still at the protest, waving that moronic banner. It’s a public act and people will comment on it.

As for us not all being a hive mind - I agree. But there has been a LOT of speaking of behalf of ALL women by many #IBelieveHer commentators across social media in the last few days. In that context, a banner that tars all men is problematic.

Social media, in particular, Twitter, is an echo chamber. It makes it seem like there's a hive mind when really it's a small group of people validating each other's opinions and winding each other up to get more and more extremist. What percentage of people are even heavy users of Twitter?

ShowMeTheCash · 01-04-2018 12:38AM

irishrebe wrote: »

So clever and yet can't do your own research or even a bit of googling? Since you seem to think I'm your butler, here's one definition.

You claimed to have studied law earlier, why are you giving me legislation from the state of Indiana in the USA?

Silentcorner · 01-04-2018 12:38AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Ok, so how would you go about changing the way a "small minority" of males and females speak about the opposite sex. Considering you view it as "Bravado" among friends and don't speak up?

The way I suggested is you included everyone that way you don't miss anyone, but yet you seem offended?

I'm giving you a possible solution whereas you are trying to deny a problem exists and won't provide an alternative solution?

You won't get any thanks for offering possible solutions to this lot....

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:40AM

Silentcorner wrote: »

I am working off the figures posted earlier by someone else, there were 2,500 reports of rape/sexual assault...59 made it to court...we have a conviction rate of about 6/7%...

I don't think it is too much of a stretch to think that half of these sexual assaults are not reported...

err was there not a figure given of 67% conviction given ?

Silentcorner · 01-04-2018 12:40AM

Curly Judge wrote: »

Unsubstantiated BS!
There may be a 100 girls who wake up the next morning and decide, retrospectively, that they have been raped.
Hardly the same thing?

So...rape doesn't exist then....right....

Silentcorner · 01-04-2018 12:41AM

irishrebe wrote: »

Yes, because historically, society was so sexist that women weren't even referred to as people at all, most of the time. 'He' was the default pronoun. I suppose that's also women's fault, is it?

up to not so long ago in this country rape was a crime committed against a man...the wife was his property...

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:43AM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

And neither would there have been if the victim had just been fingered. A more apt comparison would be if the situation was exactly the same and the victim was male. He got touchy feely and huggy, being extremely drunk, and one of the lads took it as a come-on and started sexual activity. Several more lads then entered the room and proceeded to have sex with the victim. He takes it to court and none of them are convicted because there's no proof he wasn't up for it. I wonder then would there be so much sympathy for the rugby lads? Seems to me that a lot of people struggle with having empathy for a victim in a situation they are statistically extremely unlikely to ever be in.

You have literally lost you mind! As has the other OP.

You main issue is you think these guys are guilty and should of been found guilty as this is the narrative you are taking.

But lets take this narrative, so if this was a gay man who has went back with 4 gay rugby players are you suggesting that men would have more sympathy for a guy saying he was raped than a woman?

I've lost my mind? I'm literally just suggesting a hypothetical scenario in which a man was in the same position rather than a woman. Rather funny you find it so extreme, and rather telling. No, I don't mean a gay man. I mean a straight man. What does sexual orientation matter if someone is too drunk to consent? Women, regardless of whether we're gay or straight, keep being told we shouldn't get drunk around men because they might want to rape us. Well, some men are gay. So would you agree that a straight man who goes back to a house party with men he doesn't know and ends up having sex with multiple men when drunk has no grounds to bring a rape case?

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:44AM

Rodin wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Yes, because historically, society was so sexist that women weren't even referred to as people at all, most of the time. 'He' was the default pronoun. I suppose that's also women's fault, is it?

I don't recall saying anything was women's fault so your use of the word 'also' is null and void.

Oh no, just your general attitude of 'poor men'. Were you not implying that the use of the male pronoun in the legal text was another way men are so oppressed and victimised by the legal system?

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:44AM

irishrebe wrote: »

I've lost my mind? I'm literally just suggesting a hypothetical scenario in which a man was in the same position rather than a woman. Rather funny you find it so extreme, and rather telling. No, I don't mean a gay man. I mean a straight man. What does sexual orientation matter if someone is too drunk to consent? Women, regardless of whether we're gay or straight, keep being told we shouldn't get drunk around men because they might want to rape us. Well, some men are gay. So would you agree that a straight man who goes back to a house party with men he doesn't know and ends up having sex with multiple men when drunk has no grounds to bring a rape case?

Did he consent in this case ?

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:45AM

emeraldwinter wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Yes, because historically, society was so sexist that women weren't even referred to as people at all, most of the time. 'He' was the default pronoun. I suppose that's also women's fault, is it?

Really how did that work with languages that mescaline and feminine.

I'm not sure if you're on a wind up or you really do have some sort of deficiency, so I'll leave this unanswered.

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:46AM

emeraldwinter wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

I've lost my mind? I'm literally just suggesting a hypothetical scenario in which a man was in the same position rather than a woman. Rather funny you find it so extreme, and rather telling. No, I don't mean a gay man. I mean a straight man. What does sexual orientation matter if someone is too drunk to consent? Women, regardless of whether we're gay or straight, keep being told we shouldn't get drunk around men because they might want to rape us. Well, some men are gay. So would you agree that a straight man who goes back to a house party with men he doesn't know and ends up having sex with multiple men when drunk has no grounds to bring a rape case?

Did he consent in this case ?

The lads said he did, he says he didn't.

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:46AM

irishrebe wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're on a wind up or you really do have some sort of deficiency, so I'll leave this unanswered.

You said society, I asked how that would work in France for example ?

01-04-2018 12:47AM

I will ask again, in your opinion, if a man and a woman who have consumed similar amounts of alcohol, leaving them intoxicated, decide to have sex, has that man raped the woman due to her not being able to consent?

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:47AM

irishrebe wrote: »

The lads said he did, he says he didn't.

Then that's why we have courts and evidence.

Curly Judge · 01-04-2018 12:47AM

Silentcorner wrote: »

So...rape doesn't exist then....right....

Of course, rape exists.
Where did I say otherwise?

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:48AM

emeraldwinter wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're on a wind up or you really do have some sort of deficiency, so I'll leave this unanswered.

You said society, I asked how that would work in France for example ?

Again, are you for real? How would it work in France? How do you think it worked in France?

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:49AM

irishrebe wrote: »

Again, are you for real? How would it work in France? How do you think it worked in France?

Easy women would be a feminine word. So how would it default to the male he ?

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I will ask again, in your opinion, if a man and a woman who have consumed similar amounts of alcohol, leaving them intoxicated, decide to have sex, has that man raped the woman due to her not being able to consent?

Depends on various factors. I'm dating a man who is 6'4 and well built. I'm 5'4-5'5 and skinny. If we share a bottle of vodka, which of us is going to end up worse off?

hill16bhoy · 01-04-2018 12:51AM

irishrebe wrote: »

Women, regardless of whether we're gay or straight, keep being told we shouldn't get drunk around men because they might want to rape us.

It's absolutely hilarious.

A lot of men go mad at the suggestion that they might be potential rapists.

But these same men tend to have the view that if a woman gets drunk and goes back to a house with a man, actually, scratch that, she doesn't even have to be drunk at all, she should apparently assume that she will be raped!

That is some double bind.

Silentcorner · 01-04-2018 12:53AM

Curly Judge wrote: »

Of course, rape exists.
Where did I say otherwise?

Read your post again...

More like 100 women wake up and decide retrospectively that they have been raped...implies explicitly that the 100 women in this country (50 of whom will report the crime to the gardai*) are all making it up....

You are a right charmer you are!!

*Those who do report a rape, are subjected to a very invasive body exam, very often miles away from home.

irishrebe · 01-04-2018 12:54AM

emeraldwinter wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Again, are you for real? How would it work in France? How do you think it worked in France?

Easy women would be a feminine word. So how would it default to the male he ?

Well obviously when women were specifically being referred to, then the female pronoun would be used, like in English. Any time a person in general was being referred to, the male pronoun was automatically used as the default. I don't think you understand the difference between masculine and feminine nouns and gender pronouns. Or much of anything, really.

emeraldwinter · 01-04-2018 12:54AM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Read your post again...

More like 100 women wake up and decide retrospectively that they have been raped...implies explicitly that the 100 women in this country (50 of whom will report the crime to the gardai*) are all making it up....

You are a right charmer you are!!

*Those who do report a rape, are subjected to a very invasive body exam, very often miles away from home.

Would it not be safer not to contaminate the evidence ?

hynesie08 · 01-04-2018 12:55AM

irishrebe wrote: »

Depends on various factors. I'm dating a man who is 6'4 and well built. I'm 5'4-5'5 and skinny. If we share a bottle of vodka, which of us is going to end up worse off?

Who's got a higher tolerance? Did one of you have a heavy meal? Or do you just assume women can't drink like men?

Silentcorner · 01-04-2018 12:55AM

emeraldwinter wrote: »

Would it not be safer not to contaminate the evidence ?

What are you on about?

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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