Russian Foreign Policy Megamix

Emme · 27-03-2018 4:44pm #1

Ireland spent centuries fighting for freedom only to follow blindly in the footsteps of other countries when it comes to the current controversy over Russia. I think that Ireland is considering expelling a Russian Diplomat out of fear of the US and the EU and not from any problems with Russia. It's a shame.

SCOOP 64 · 27-03-2018 7:05pm

I think some people will not be happy with it because its backing the UK more them anything else.

Gatling · 27-03-2018 7:48pm

Emme wrote: »

. I still think he should not have been expelled.

And why exactly should he not be expelled

johnnyskeleton · 27-03-2018 7:56pm

Mod note:

Folks, please read the charter. This is a forum for serious debate. The explusion of a diplomat is a serious issue. Having a go at the OP is not. Link dumps are not acceptable, nor are off top race baiting comments/trolling.

I've deleted a dozen posts and changed the name of the thread. So lets start again.

OP, you too will need to read the charter and provide a more detailed analysis of your position if you want more meaningful debate.

Podge_irl · 27-03-2018 11:09pm

Why do you believe it is blind following? If your viewpoint is that any backing up of our closest ally and partner in international matters is wrong then I would suggest that it is blind opposition that you are looking for.

Several of the countries currently involved in diplomatic actions against Russia are far from renowned for their willingness to cross Putin and put Russian financial interests at risk. Maybe, perhaps, they are all just agreed that a country has gone too far in committing such a hostile action on neighboring European soil?

Infini · 28-03-2018 12:23am

Some would like to say there's no proof that Russia did it and that its a setup etc. While I'm not one to completely disagree right now considering the information that is out there right now there are some facts that seriously reinforce the case that it's Russia who did it and why it's led to this...

1) Putin was recorded as saying "spys will choke on their 30 silvers" several years back. (ie. he has motive)
2) This isnt the first time because the last time it was Litvinenko who was killed with Radioactive Polonium.
3) This was with a nerve agent that has been identified as a Soviet weapon.
4) Serveral Russian's have been found dead in suspicious circumstances recently as well.

On top of that we've had over the last few years other issues of Russia basically being being a dick...

1) Cyber-attacks on various countries from Russia.
2) Running Military Aircraft past EU Air-borders with their transponders switched off.
3) The infamous Russian interference in the US elections by hacks and other BS
4) Interference in Ukraine and the shooting down of a civilian airliner with a Russian SAM.
5) Lets not forget that carryon with Georgia too that didnt exactly go over very well.

Basically what's happened this week is basically Europe and North America saying "Right thats it enough of this shyte". The lying and constant carryon is basically destroyed their believability and left them in a position of others basically saying "Unless you can prove otherwise, your the only one with the motive to do this".

Honestly I dont have an issue with Russian people but there's plenty of them in the Russian Government that are pissed over losing the Cold War and being Reduced to a regional power rather than a superpower. The problem is at this stage they're not doing themselve's any favours at all by continuing to act like this. Some say that the US is the one placing NATO etc in former Soviet countries but to be honest its probably because those countries are unnerved by Russia from history and just want protection from them.

Honestly if Russia wants to be great again they REALLY need to back up and realise that they're not going to get anywhere by being the "Russian Troll Federation" and constanly pissing everyone off and scaring the shyte out of others. They also need to stop with the pointless murders because its gotten too far out of hand.

StringerBell · 28-03-2018 12:43am

Gatling wrote: »

And why exactly should he not be expelled

That's not really how those things work is it? Shouldn't the question be why should he be expelled and some form of evidence to show it is the correct decision?

This has been a cluster **** of a response from the countries who have rushed to judgement before an investigation has been concluded.

Also not to be too Irish/English ****e about it but are British intelligence really who we should be basing foreign policy decisions on. They of the WMDs in Iraq (we promise) fame?

mcmoustache · 28-03-2018 1:09am

StringerBell wrote: »

That's not really how those things work is it? Shouldn't the question be why should he be expelled and some form of evidence to show it is the correct decision?

This has been a cluster **** of a response from the countries who have rushed to judgement before an investigation has been concluded.

Also not to be too Irish/English ****e about it but are British intelligence really who we should be basing foreign policy decisions on. They of the WMDs in Iraq (we promise) fame?

The official at the Russian Embassy in Ballsbridge, south Dublin, has been ordered to leave the country within a fortnight following a decision by the Department of Foreign Affairs to withdraw his diplomatic status.

Criminal charges cannot be brought against the man because of diplomatic immunity, which protects officials attached to foreign embassies.
The details from six genuine Irish passports were used on fake documents supplied to a Russian spy ring based in the US.

The agents had worked undercover in the US for a decade before being caught in an FBI operation involving intercepted phone calls last June.

Forging our passports? That's a paddlin'.

StringerBell · 28-03-2018 8:51am

Ok, so if he was doing stuff he should not have been doing why not expel him before now?

Christy42 · 28-03-2018 10:17am

Emme wrote: »

Ireland spent centuries fighting for freedom only to follow blindly in the footsteps of other countries when it comes to the current controversy over Russia. I think that Ireland is considering expelling a Russian Diplomat out of fear of the US and the EU and not from any problems with Russia. It's a shame.

Are we not allowed to agree with the actions of other countries? Are we banned from doing anything the UK does? How can we show our independence?

As for problems with Russia, well that chemical agent was deployed to a neighbouring country. It also shows we are not blindly following the Russian narrative here to the Russians. Showing solidarity is no bad thing (not that Russia will notice us expelling someone).

Thomas__. · 28-03-2018 12:29pm

Emme wrote: »

Ireland spent centuries fighting for freedom only to follow blindly in the footsteps of other countries when it comes to the current controversy over Russia. I think that Ireland is considering expelling a Russian Diplomat out of fear of the US and the EU and not from any problems with Russia. It's a shame.

I think that Ireland has been put into a tricky situation and therefore is acting along with the other EU countries to follow up the decision of the whole Community of the EU. What sort of some ramifications out of that might be remains to be seen.

James Brown · 28-03-2018 2:16pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Ok, so if he was doing stuff he should not have been doing why not expel him before now?

Might have something to do with this:

Russian companies sanctioned over Ukraine linked to Ireland
A number of major Russian companies that are subject to the sanctions introduced following Russia’s assault on Ukraine in 2014 have connections with Ireland due to the role it plays in the global funds industry.
The fund operations remain legal despite European Union and US sanctions, although their ability to provide services to their Russia counterparts may have been hit by the introduction of sanctions.
Some of the Russian companies concerned are very close to the Kremlin and the Russian president Vladimir Putin.
The Irish companies tend to have few if any employees despite the enormous transactions they are involved with, and usually pay very little in tax.
However, they contribute to the Irish economy by way of the fees paid for the provision of professional services.
A recent study from Trinity College Dublin estimated that 125 Russian-linked companies have raised €103 billion through Irish funds operations since 2007.
One of the major operations based here is that of Rosneft International Finance. Based in the East Point Business Park, Dublin 3, it is a subsidiary of the massive Rosneft oil company, which is itself the subject of the EU and US sanctions.

Rosneft chief executive Igor Sechin is considered one of Mr Putin’s closest allies and is on the US sanctions list.
Rosneft’s assets include assets that used to belong to Yukos, the since broken-up oil and gas conglomerate whose former owner, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, was at one stage Russia’s richest oligarch. He fell foul of Mr Putin’s regime and was jailed for a number of years before being released after lobbying by the German government.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/russian-companies-sanctioned-over-ukraine-linked-to-ireland-1.3440975

Be interesting to see is this support merely window dressing. Can't see Fine Gael kicking out the Russian wealthy using Ireland to launder shuffle money around.
It's tantamount to say, saying "Given the racist, dangerous, reckless rhetoric and policies articulated by Donald Trump, if it comes about that he becomes the President of the United States, I’m asking would we continue to facilitate US troops at Shannon airport?" and your next in line doing him a solid for business purposes.

Phoebas · 28-03-2018 2:23pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Ok, so if he was doing stuff he should not have been doing why not expel him before now?

We're not strong enough to take unilateral action against Russia, so Russian military aircraft are able, for example, to fly into Irish controlled airspace with their transponders turned off with complete impunity.

charlie14 · 28-03-2018 6:43pm

Thomas__. wrote: »

I think that Ireland has been put into a tricky situation and therefore is acting along with the other EU countries to follow up the decision of the whole Community of the EU. What sort of some ramifications out of that might be remains to be seen.

Austria, a member of the EU, were in the same position as Ireland and refused to expel Russian diplomats. The reason they gave was
"Austria is a neutral country and sees itself as a bridge builder between East and West".
As a neutral country ourselves it may have been something we would have been wise to considered ourselves for a variety of reasons with this issue. Not the least of them that the country we are backing in this is leaving the EU without much care to the economic difficulties it will cause this country while have been sending trade missions too Russia in an attempt to alleviate those economic difficulties.

StringerBell · 30-03-2018 7:46pm

The biggest laugh of the lot is surely Coveney, and Ireland by extension getting the hump now that Russia have expelled an Irish official. "No justification for this"

Mother of God.

charlie14 · 30-03-2018 7:59pm

StringerBell wrote: »

The biggest laugh of the lot is surely Coveney, and Ireland by extension getting the hump now that Russia have expelled an Irish official. "No justification for this"

Mother of God.

Especially after his explanation on expelling that Russian diplomat.

The selection process appears to have been the use of eeny meeny miny moe

Nitrogan · 30-03-2018 8:07pm

Emme wrote: »

Ireland spent centuries fighting for freedom only to follow blindly in the footsteps of other countries when it comes to the current controversy over Russia. I think that Ireland is considering expelling a Russian Diplomat out of fear of the US and the EU and not from any problems with Russia. It's a shame.

In the past we'd have been so afraid of the republican #cause, no government would have the nuts to be seen on the same side with the UK on something like this.

It's a true first expression of diplomatic free will.

listermint · 30-03-2018 9:01pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Especially after his explanation on expelling that Russian diplomat.

The selection process appears to have been the use of eeny meeny miny moe

Except it wasn't they asked the Guards.

Why spread waffles ? What does it get you ?

blanch152 · 30-03-2018 10:09pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Austria, a member of the EU, were in the same position as Ireland and refused to expel Russian diplomats. The reason they gave was
"Austria is a neutral country and sees itself as a bridge builder between East and West".
As a neutral country ourselves it may have been something we would have been wise to considered ourselves for a variety of reasons with this issue. Not the least of them that the country we are backing in this is leaving the EU without much care to the economic difficulties it will cause this country while have been sending trade missions too Russia in an attempt to alleviate those economic difficulties.

Where does Ireland's foreign policy interests lie in all of this?

Should we ally ourselves with a rogue country Russia?

Should we show solidarity with the UK, showing them the benefits of working closely with their EU colleagues?

Should we show our EU colleagues that we intend to remain at the heart of the EU project?

Only one answer, and thankfully we made the right decision.

charlie14 · 30-03-2018 11:02pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Where does Ireland's foreign policy interests lie in all of this?

Should we ally ourselves with a rogue country Russia?

Should we show solidarity with the UK, showing them the benefits of working closely with their EU colleagues?

Should we show our EU colleagues that we intend to remain at the heart of the EU project?

Only one answer, and thankfully we made the right decision.

At present we have trade missions in Russia attempting to plug the hole that is going to be left in our economy due to Britain leaving the EU.

We can show solidarity to Britain until the cows come home, but when it comes to them leaving the EU, it will not make a blind bit of difference.
They are determined and could care less how it effects Ireland.

The only action the EU as a collective took over the Skripal incident was to recall their Russian ambassador.
Any country, EU members included, that expelled Russian diplomats did so unilaterally.
Ireland doing so had nothing to do with it being collective EU policy.
Our only obligation to EU policy was endorsing what actually was EU policy.The re-calling of the ambassador to Russia.
Imho as a supposedly neutral state that is what we should have done rather than expelling a diplomat.

Mumha · 30-03-2018 11:57pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Where does Ireland's foreign policy interests lie in all of this?

Should we ally ourselves with a rogue country Russia?

Should we show solidarity with the UK, showing them the benefits of working closely with their EU colleagues?

Should we show our EU colleagues that we intend to remain at the heart of the EU project?

Only one answer, and thankfully we made the right decision.

Yes 100% agree. And it did reflect our own interests, as Russia is intent on screwing all western democracies.

NBC's excellent Richard Engel has a documentary on NBC tonight as a follow-up to Putin's attempted murder of ex Russian spy and his daughter. He interviewed another ex Russian spy who said he was tipped off by someone still inside the Kremlin that he is one of EIGHT others on a Putin death list, along with the courageous Bill Browder and Christopher Steele.

I suspect British Intel had this info too and that was what probably informed Theresa May's hard response to this attempted assassination, as a warning to Putin to back off. No doubt Leo and the other leaders would have been filled in as well.

charlie14 · 31-03-2018 12:05am

listermint wrote: »

Except it wasn't they asked the Guards.

Why spread waffles ? What does it get you ?

If you want to hear real waffle listen to Coveney`s explaination.

They asked the army as well and between the three of them fro Coveney`s explaination of who was selected it was basically a case of eeny meeny miny moe as to who went.

derossi · 31-03-2018 1:33am

Do you think there is information you are not aware of?

blanch152 · 31-03-2018 2:04am

charlie14 wrote: »

At present we have trade missions in Russia attempting to plug the hole that is going to be left in our economy due to Britain leaving the EU.

We can show solidarity to Britain until the cows come home, but when it comes to them leaving the EU, it will not make a blind bit of difference.
They are determined and could care less how it effects Ireland.

The only action the EU as a collective took over the Skripal incident was to recall their Russian ambassador.
Any country, EU members included, that expelled Russian diplomats did so unilaterally.
Ireland doing so had nothing to do with it being collective EU policy.
Our only obligation to EU policy was endorsing what actually was EU policy.The re-calling of the ambassador to Russia.
Imho as a supposedly neutral state that is what we should have done rather than expelling a diplomat.

If you think trade with Russia is more important than attempting to persuade the UK to reverse Brexit or working with the EU to get the best Brexit for Ireland, then you are simply nuts.

The only sane option for Ireland was to expel a Russian diplomat.

Nitrogan · 31-03-2018 1:06pm

Really there'll be a lot more known Russian intelligence agents the US and UK would like Ireland to expel, but we're apologetically removing one because everyone else is.

It's a lame response, it looks weak and encourages Russia to use Ireland as a back door to the UK. When the UK and US has to put their resources on monitoring Russian agents in Ireland when we aren't willing or able then inevitably they'll be operating in Ireland.

No one wants that, yet some political groups entice it by trying to set Ireland up as a neutral/staging post for both sides.

Ireland should be making a point by at least warning against this and threatening more spy expulsions.

charlie14 · 31-03-2018 1:17pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If you think trade with Russia is more important than attempting to persuade the UK to reverse Brexit or working with the EU to get the best Brexit for Ireland, then you are simply nuts.

The only sane option for Ireland was to expel a Russian diplomat.

If you think the UK is simply going to just reverse Brexit then you are sadly mistaken I`m afraid.
The best possible outcome for Ireland on Brexit was fudged in December by Ireland allowing the negotiations to move to Phase 2 when we actually had the publicly stated backing of the EU that talks would not progress until we were fully satisfied on the border issue.
The friction-less border idea has been dismissed by the EU even prior to December as "magic thinking" and this backstop idea of no border either North/South or East/West is a nonsense considering the EU rules and regulations governing the Single Market and Customs Union

The EU do not, nor can they, legally rule on sovereignty.
If the UK insists on their sovereignty over the 6 counties then there is no options but a border.
In fact Tony Conneely RTE`s Europe editor of news and current affairs has highlighted that from the outset on the border issue, EU negotiators have looked at the GFA as the only area where they have any involvement in the border issue.

After the December fudge, the can of the border has been being kicked down the road towards a final draft agreement, where if all other issues are settled between Britain and the EU other than the border, then Ireland has two options.
Accept an external EU border and all it entails, or veto the final draft which would result in a hard Brexit which our EU partners would not be pleased with I imagine.

Nitrogan · 31-03-2018 2:50pm

charlie14 wrote: »

If you think the UK is simply going to just reverse Brexit then you are sadly mistaken I`m afraid.
The best possible outcome for Ireland on Brexit was fudged in December by Ireland allowing the negotiations to move to Phase 2 when we actually had the publicly stated backing of the EU that talks would not progress until we were fully satisfied on the border issue.
The friction-less border idea has been dismissed by the EU even prior to December as "magic thinking" and this backstop idea of no border either North/South or East/West is a nonsense considering the EU rules and regulations governing the Single Market and Customs Union

The EU do not, nor can they, legally rule on sovereignty.
If the UK insists on their sovereignty over the 6 counties then there is no options but a border.
In fact Tony Conneely RTE`s Europe editor of news and current affairs has highlighted that from the outset on the border issue, EU negotiators have looked at the GFA as the only area where they have any involvement in the border issue.

After the December fudge, the can of the border has been being kicked down the road towards a final draft agreement, where if all other issues are settled between Britain and the EU other than the border, then Ireland has two options.
Accept an external EU border and all it entails, or veto the final draft which would result in a hard Brexit which our EU partners would not be pleased with I imagine.

I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with Russia other than the autonomy of small countries like Ireland to choose to act as part of a collective with real impact on an aggressive threat like modern Putinist Russia.

If that's what was meant.

charlie14 · 31-03-2018 5:53pm

Nitrogan wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with Russia other than the autonomy of small countries like Ireland to choose to act as part of a collective with real impact on an aggressive threat like modern Putinist Russia.

If that's what was meant.

It was meant as whatever action we, or the rest of the EU member states, take in solidarity towards Britain as regards Russia, it will not make a blind bit of difference to Britain in regards to Brexit which the poster seems to believe it will.
You have only to look at Britain`s Foreign Secretary and his White Cliffs of Dover comments barely a day after he acknowledged the solidarity they had shown.

James Brown · 02-04-2018 3:32pm

Nitrogan wrote: »

In the past we'd have been so afraid of the republican #cause, no government would have the nuts to be seen on the same side with the UK on something like this.

It's a true first expression of diplomatic free will.

Have you heard of the UN?

I just wonder what the point of the Russian expulsion was. We still have Russian financial bodies with connections to Putin operating within Ireland. Surely we'd show more moral fiber by expelling all Israeli diplomats; they forged Irish passports and are currently murdering Palestinians?

Mumha · 02-04-2018 9:08pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Have you heard of the UN?

I just wonder what the point of the Russian expulsion was. We still have Russian financial bodies with connections to Putin operating within Ireland. Surely we'd show more moral fiber by expelling all Israeli diplomats; they forged Irish passports and are currently murdering Palestinians?

Well we certainly need to end those Russian financial bodies in Ireland. If/When the UK goes ahead with Brexit, Ireland will be of even more interest to the Russians and their dirty money. No good will come of having further financial interactions with them.

Chips Lovell · 03-04-2018 11:17am

Hi everyone,
Please don't forget the charter, especially:

Please remember that we are not a blog, a news feed nor an announcement forum - if you are not willing to discuss what you post, then please don't post it.

and

When posting or linking to a video please provide a summary of the content as not everybody has access to video sites or the time to view them.

James Brown · 03-04-2018 2:52pm

Mumha wrote: »

Well we certainly need to end those Russian financial bodies in Ireland. If/When the UK goes ahead with Brexit, Ireland will be of even more interest to the Russians and their dirty money. No good will come of having further financial interactions with them.

For the Russian billions that flow through Ireland, little tax they pay and few staff they employ, it's a curious thing to allow continue in the face of this stance. Maybe there's some mutual back scratching going on we don't know about? Likely we can't be seen to play favorites and fain legitimacy; whats good for Apple is good for Putin friendly money exchange groups?

Mumha · 03-04-2018 3:37pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

For the Russian billions that flow through Ireland, little tax they pay and few staff they employ, it's a curious thing to allow continue in the face of this stance. Maybe there's some mutual back scratching going on we don't know about? Likely we can't be seen to play favorites and fain legitimacy; whats good for Apple is good for Putin friendly money exchange groups?

Maybe there's some kompromat on Irish politicians too !

Seriously though, it's pretty shameful that Bill Browder had to give up trying to get the Irish government to bring in a Magnitsky Act into law in Ireland. Especially as you can bet we are not immune from threats to our democracy, from Russia. It would be relatively cheap to target a low electorate country, which is also a EU member.

James Brown · 03-04-2018 6:19pm

Mumha wrote: »

Maybe there's some kompromat on Irish politicians too !

Seriously though, it's pretty shameful that Bill Browder had to give up trying to get the Irish government to bring in a Magnitsky Act into law in Ireland. Especially as you can bet we are not immune from threats to our democracy, from Russia. It would be relatively cheap to target a low electorate country, which is also a EU member.

I can't see the Pulse system putting up much of a fight

Dohnjoe · 06-04-2018 9:47am

Was a fairly active thread on the Skripal case on After Hours, now locked, this seems to be the only relevant thread on boards right now (unless I've missed something)

It seems that the Kremlin is very keen to get Yulia back to Russia - not sure how she will feel about that. Her cousin is suddenly quite vocal with the press. Whatever happens, she is a political pawn now

Also Moscow is still going hell for leather on the disinformation campaign, but have been rejected at the OPCW and UN. If it turns out they have carried out this attack - their low intl credibility is only going to take a further hit after all the antics

Elmer Blooker · 06-04-2018 11:31am

Mumha wrote: »

Well we certainly need to end those Russian financial bodies in Ireland. If/When the UK goes ahead with Brexit, Ireland will be of even more interest to the Russians and their dirty money. No good will come of having further financial interactions with them.

If you have information regarding "dirty money" have you passed it on to the Revenue Commissioners and the CAB?
I hope you have passed on your information as I'm all in favour in the confiscation of ill gotten gains while the rest of us pay our taxes!

Gatling · 06-04-2018 11:39am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Was a fairly active thread on the Skripal case on After Hours, now locked, this seems to be the only relevant thread on boards right now (unless I've missed something)

It seems that the Kremlin is very keen to get Yulia back to Russia - not sure how she will feel about that. Her cousin is suddenly quite vocal with the press. Whatever happens, she is a political pawn now

Also Moscow is still going hell for leather on the disinformation campaign, but have been rejected at the OPCW and UN. If it turns out they have carried out this attack - their low intl credibility is only going to take a further hit after all the antics

I love how they managed to broadcast a staged phone call on russian TV while they sat in the UN security council trying to make sure they got as much misinformation out as they could while playing the victim in all of this .
It's gotten to the stage of they continue to try control the UNSC while blocking any attempts of UNSC investigations

Dohnjoe · 06-04-2018 11:51am

Gatling wrote: »

I love how they managed to broadcast a staged phone call on russian TV while they sat in the UN security council trying to make sure they got as much misinformation out as they could while playing the victim in all of this .
It's gotten to the stage of they continue to try control the UNSC while blocking any attempts of UNSC investigations

Just about every other representative at the UN, or the OPCW meeting knows exactly what is going on here.. they just have to sit through it knowing none of it is aimed at them

cnocbui · 06-04-2018 11:53am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Was a fairly active thread on the Skripal case on After Hours, now locked, this seems to be the only relevant thread on boards right now (unless I've missed something)

It seems that the Kremlin is very keen to get Yulia back to Russia - not sure how she will feel about that. Her cousin is suddenly quite vocal with the press. Whatever happens, she is a political pawn now

Also Moscow is still going hell for leather on the disinformation campaign, but have been rejected at the OPCW and UN. If it turns out they have carried out this attack - their low intl credibility is only going to take a further hit after all the antics

I hope Yulia has been informed by those presumably liaising with and protecting her that her cousin Viktoria is working for the FSB and to be very careful.

Gatling · 06-04-2018 11:59am

cnocbui wrote: »

I hope Yulia has been informed by those presumably liaising with and protecting her that her cousin Viktoria is working for the FSB and to be very careful.

Didn't they say when her cousin arrives at the hospital next week she would have 2 russian diplomats with her , despite Yulia not asking to speak to Russian diplomats

Dohnjoe · 06-04-2018 12:20pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I hope Yulia has been informed by those presumably liaising with and protecting her that her cousin Viktoria is working for the FSB and to be very careful.

Viktoria has suggested that Yulia and Sergei weren't affected by a nerve agent but suffered fish poisoning, an "accident". It's fairly obvious what's happening here, It goes without saying how important it is for Moscow to get Yulia back on hometurf for propaganda and intelligence purposes

Dohnjoe · 06-04-2018 12:50pm

If anyone wants an idea of how mental this case might be - there are sources claiming (including Russian media sources) that Yulia Skripals fiancee/boyfriend is a member of the FSB and that Yulia herself worked at the US embassy in Moscow. Not just that, but the man's mother allegedly worked for and was "high-up" in Russian intelligence.

demfad · 06-04-2018 1:55pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

If you have information regarding "dirty money" have you passed it on to the Revenue Commissioners and the CAB?
I hope you have passed on your information as I'm all in favour in the confiscation of ill gotten gains while the rest of us pay our taxes!

I saw credible accounts under oath in the US congress of Russian money laundering through Doonbeg. I passed it on to the media and the relevant Garda department. (Garda National Economic Crime Bureau,)

Dohnjoe · 06-04-2018 1:58pm

Pretty big news: Sergei is no longer in critical condition and is recovering

Hopefully he will be well enough to help with the investigation - not good news for the would-be assassins

cnocbui · 06-04-2018 2:42pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Viktoria has suggested that Yulia and Sergei weren't affected by a nerve agent but suffered fish poisoning, an "accident". It's fairly obvious what's happening here, It goes without saying how important it is for Moscow to get Yulia back on hometurf for propaganda and intelligence purposes

Who needs mass spectrometers and gas chromatographs when you have the FSB (Viktoria) to diagnose the problem from a distance without samples.

Remarkable how two police officers were also poisoned by this fish without ever eating it.

All just trying to drown out the truth with noise.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 06-04-2018 2:53pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Pretty big news: Sergei is no longer in critical condition and is recovering

Hopefully he will be well enough to help with the investigation - not good news for the would-be assassins

Not good news for the nerve gas theory either. Of course if either of them come out on the Russian side then they will be dismissed as stoodges. Or as we have seen already as FSB.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 06-04-2018 2:55pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Who needs mass spectrometers and gas chromatographs when you have the FSB (Viktoria) to diagnose the problem from a distance without samples.

Remarkable how two police officers were also poisoned by this fish without ever eating it.

All just trying to drown out the truth with noise.

So because Sergia’s cousin is now not on ball with the Russian conspiracy theory she’s definitely FSB?

mcmoustache · 06-04-2018 2:58pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Not good news for the nerve gas theory either. Of course if either of them come out on the Russian side then they will be dismissed as stoodges. Or as we have seen already as FSB.

Maybe I haven't been keeping up with the Russian talking points but I thought that the current one was "OK, it was novichok but it could have been anyone".

Are they now claiming that it wasn't novichok?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 06-04-2018 3:11pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Maybe I haven't been keeping up with the Russian talking points but I thought that the current one was "OK, it was novichok but it could have been anyone".

Are they now claiming that it wasn't novichok?

I wouldn’t know what Russians are claiming since I don’t follow any Russians sites. Not even RT. Hopefully politics is moderated better than AH and these kinds of well poisonnng arguments are properly moderated, so I’ve reported that post.

I do however read Craig Murray’s excellent blog and in his latest post he in fact does throw some doubt on it. Now I’m not the expert but then neither are the pro neo conservative posters here.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk

cnocbui · 06-04-2018 3:23pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

So because Sergia’s cousin is now not on ball with the Russian conspiracy theory she’s definitely FSB?

Actually it's a matter of quite a number of things she has said that have turned out to be inaccurate and untrue. You don't find it odd that a phone conversation she supposedly had with Yulia was recorded in high quality and then broadcast on Russian TV? Do you think it normal behaviour for relatives to record private phone conversations without telling the person they are speaking with and to then give them to the media?

If I get a spare moment I might compile a list of things Viktoria is alleged to have said and how those compare with the truth.

Just for starters and off the top of my head, she is the source of the allegation that Yulia was engaged to the son of a senior female FSB officer who didn't want them to marry, and likely is the culprit.

Dohnjoe · 06-04-2018 3:36pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Not good news for the nerve gas theory either.

The hospital staff and specialists have treated the pair for nerve gas poisoning. Porton Down have confirmed nerve gas. The entire basis of the case revolves around it's presence. The OPCW is on the scene right now independently testing the samples

Yulia or Sergei Skripal living or dying have no bearing on that theory. That's dosage/contact/delivery

It's going to be earth-shattering news if this all turns out to be bad fish, put it that way.

Russian Foreign Policy Megamix

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