The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

jmayo · 29-03-2018 12:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely not. The Politics forum, last time I looked a few years ago, was nothing but an incredibly overcensored circle jerk for a coterie of economically rightwing and politically anglocentric sorts who killed all debate that didn't share their worldview. It was an echo chamber, with a very, very strong Fine Gael flavour. Your proposal is just another attempt to control what views should and should not be expressed - which is the very reason why the Politics forum has effectively died. Proposing a return to the very moderation that has effectively killed the Politics forum in the first place is, needless to say, not the solution.

I suppose I would be a Fine Gael supporter, never a member mind, and would have gotten in trouble for having a go at fianna fail supporters who post meltdown seemed to forget their posting history lauding the likes of bertie.

But the thing that got me about the Politics forum was how EU sycophantic it became.
Anyone that dared speak out about EU was admonished and belittled.
Now granted some posters just trotted out the line about how much we may have lost by giving away our fishing rights, but even if you stated you did not want a federalist EU controlled by Germany and France you were treated as a moron who didn't know what was good for you.

Then also there developed an almost smarmy attitude where threads were moved to Politics Cafe under the moniker about it not being worthy of discussion in the main Politics forum.

Deleted User wrote: »

The so-called "craven, limp-wristed moderation" is a million times better than a group of ideological soulmates who take themselves far, far too seriously running a forum into the ground by censoring posters with alternative views. No matter what you do with the Politics forum, people will avoid it for as long as they see the moderators are actively involved in punishing posters who don't share their views and, worse, who have the temerity to disagree with them in public. Grudges powered that whole forum.

This was the definitely Politics Cafe.
I, as you would well know, have strong views on a certain topic which probably makes me diametrically opposed to the opinion of all of the mods of the Politics Cafe past and present.
In some threads you had multiple mods offering their opinions.
One moment they were posting and the next moderating the actual thread.
Mods were even disparaging labeling other posters one moment and moderating the next.
How does that look on a thread when a moderator is engaged in such tactics.

Deleted User wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with this analysis.

This is the thing, we probably don't agree on most political subjects, but we can agree that political discussions can be curtailed by moderators who have vested interests and it ends up subverting discussion and driving away posters.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think I remember who you're referring to there and if I'm right the same Mod was somehow deemed worthy of overseeing threads discussing his employer as well - despite the fact that said employer has pretty strict terms about social media usage and how staff represent themselves (said Mod stopped replying to a PM discussion when I pointed this out...)
...

Yes and the same mod showed their true colours when calling into question the character of a fellow employee who had taken on their employer.

Chips Lovell · 29-03-2018 12:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The Politics forum, last time I looked a few years ago.....

You were posting in there yesterday.

Deleted User wrote: »

...which is the very reason why the Politics forum has effectively died. Proposing a return to the very moderation that has effectively killed the Politics forum in the first place is, needless to say, not the solution.

Don't know where you're getting this from. Post count has been growing for the past few years at least. Was up 50% last year.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 29-03-2018 12:58PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's the biggest single killer of a discussion I have come across. An established poster who acts like a troll, throwing incorrect statements, or even vile comments, into threads, refuses to engage when called out on them, and is rarely if ever admonished. Even when a Mod occasionally tells them to not post in the thread again (without a card) they have ignored the instruction and all that happens is the posts are removed when reported (without card or further sanction ). Some discussions recently gave been interesting and enjoyable but these people leave 'honest' contributors frustrated to the point that they let rip about it and end up carded or thread banned themselves.

Beasty · 29-03-2018 01:01PM

Zoey Famous Aftershave wrote: »

Even when a Mod occasionally tells them to not post in the thread again (without a card) they have ignored the instruction and all that happens is the posts are removed when reported (without card or further sanction )

How would you know what sanction has, or has not, been applied to a removed post?

KERSPLAT! · 29-03-2018 01:09PM

Beasty wrote: »

How would you know what sanction has, or has not, been applied to a removed post?

Yep. For the most part if you breach a thread ban you will be carded or banned from the forum itself. Neither would be visible if posts were removed.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 29-03-2018 01:21PM

Beasty wrote: »

How would you know what sanction has, or has not, been applied to a removed post?

Yes, true enough. But usually there'd be a Mod note. And they certainly weren't forum banned. But I take your point - it's just that it's very frustrating.

gandalf · 29-03-2018 01:36PM

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Yep. For the most part if you breach a thread ban you will be carded or banned from the forum itself. Neither would be visible if posts were removed.

You see I think this is part of the frustration for users of the forums. Threads disappearing and no visability of why and whether people have been infracted for crossing the line. Given its a delicate issue with a number of posters maybe a thread called AH moderators log could be setup here or in feedback and these kind of hidden actions can be listed in it by mods as they take action. It then gives a reference for those mods to give to people when they ask why X thread was deleted etc. It certainly would help with the transparency issues that seem to be cropping up.

Boom_Bap · 29-03-2018 01:42PM

gandalf wrote: »

You see I think this is part of the frustration for users of the forums. Threads disappearing and no visability of why and whether people have been infracted for crossing the line. Given its a delicate issue with a number of posters maybe a thread called AH moderators log could be setup here or in feedback and these kind of hidden actions can be listed in it by mods as they take action. It then gives a reference for those mods to give to people when they ask why X thread was deleted etc. It certainly would help with the transparency issues that seem to be cropping up.

A better option would be just to ask a mod of the forum if something happened if it hasn't been explicitly said on thread.
If a mod is to document everything they do, from my perspective it shows that there is no trust in the mods and will be another reason to add to the list of 'why not to be a mod'.

robarmstrong · 29-03-2018 01:48PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

A better option would be just to ask a mod of the forum if something happened if it hasn't been explicitly said on thread.
If a mod is to document everything they do, from my perspective it shows that there is no trust in the mods and will be another reason to add to the list of 'why not to be a mod'.

But if they document their actions it makes it better for a user perspective, the mods have a list of actions to reference rather than going seeping through threads to see what warnings/cards they handed out and where.

I don't think it shows there's no trust in the mods, I think it just shows that people want a log to be kept of people's wrongdoing, which is a fair point.

Skylinehead · 29-03-2018 01:52PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

But if they document their actions it makes it better for a user perspective, the mods have a list of actions to reference rather than going seeping through threads to see what warnings/cards they handed out and where.

I don't think it shows there's no trust in the mods, I think it just shows that people want a log to be kept of people's wrongdoing, which is a fair point.

You're assuming that people should be entitled to look at other users records...I'm not sure I agree. It could be open to abuse. We do have an automated log of actions for mod use, but it's internal use only.

KERSPLAT! · 29-03-2018 01:55PM

gandalf wrote: »

You see I think this is part of the frustration for users of the forums. Threads disappearing and no visability of why and whether people have been infracted for crossing the line. Given its a delicate issue with a number of posters maybe a thread called AH moderators log could be setup here or in feedback and these kind of hidden actions can be listed in it by mods as they take action. It then gives a reference for those mods to give to people when they ask why X thread was deleted etc. It certainly would help with the transparency issues that seem to be cropping up.

I know you were a mod before but I have no idea what you modded or if it was a busy forum. If it was busy you'll understand there's enough to be at without adding more.

Currently AH mods get a huge amount of reports of which all need to be reviewed, generally meaning a whole thread or a section needs to be reviewed for context. History of posters reviewed. If a post requires action they then need to advise the poster why and add post references for bans because Mod tools are crap and don't record posts for bans only the ban itself.

The guide, in AH anyway, is supposed to be any post that receives a card or ban would be left so posters know where the line is. This isn't always possible as some posts are way over the top and others need to be removed for legal reasons.

I enjoyed my time for the most part as a mod of AH, and then cmod, but jaysus towards the end it was an absolute nightmare. Why anyone would want the gig now I don't know. It used to be fun, that has been sucked out of it. Adding more work for a mod will kill it off even more, IMO.

....... · 29-03-2018 01:56PM

This post has been deleted.

Boom_Bap · 29-03-2018 01:58PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

But if they document their actions it makes it better for a user perspective, the mods have a list of actions to reference rather than going seeping through threads to see what warnings/cards they handed out and where.

I don't think it shows there's no trust in the mods, I think it just shows that people want a log to be kept of people's wrongdoing, which is a fair point.

I don't think that is a fair point, this is a discussion site, not a site to look for people's wrong doings. Anything a user posts should on a topic should be what is discussed, not their history of misdemeanors.

The amount of times that a thread has derailed due to someone bringing up something someone said and got reprimanded for on another forum is way too high.....not even as part of the actual discussion. There is a thread at the moment where a user is being talked about based on their history and the initials of their username now.....the topic is being ignored.

The mods/cmods/admins should be the only ones looking at people's wrong doings and history if there is action to be taken against them.

Anything that wants querying should be asked of the mods who I'm sure would be happy to help give as much information as allowed.

robarmstrong · 29-03-2018 02:01PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

You're assuming that people should be entitled to look at other users records...I'm not sure I agree. It could be open to abuse. We do have an automated log of actions for mod use, but it's internal use only.

How could it be open to abuse? Honestly, how do you think it could be open to abuse? Let's say user A calls user B a wanker because user B has been trolling. User A gets a warning but doesn't see any action taken towards user B. Which leads to animosity and a feeling that mods aren't taking actions.

There is no clear way to please everyone, but there are definitely improvements to be made.

gandalf · 29-03-2018 02:05PM

In my time on boards I modded Politics, Humanities, Soccer, Photography, Airsoft and was CMod of Society (obviously not all at the same time). I modded Politics during 911 and Soccer during the Saipan incident so yes I moderated high volumes. To be fair posting a single line in a thread does not add that much to the work load and it would address a lot of the transparency issues that exist ATM and are the source of bad feelings. It's just a suggestion and believe me I know the pain of moderation on this site. I wouldn't go back to it even if they were matching what I get paid by my current employer.

robarmstrong · 29-03-2018 02:07PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I don't think that is a fair point, this is a discussion site, not a site to look for people's wrong doings. Anything a user posts should on a topic should be what is discussed, not their history of misdemeanors.

The amount of times that a thread has derailed due to someone bringing up something someone said and got reprimanded for on another forum is way too high.....not even as part of the actual discussion. There is a thread at the moment where a user is being talked about based on their history and the initials of their username now.....the topic is being ignored.

The mods/cmods/admins should be the only ones looking at people's wrong doings and history if there is action to be taken against them.

Anything that wants querying should be asked of the mods who I'm sure would be happy to help give as much information as allowed.

I'm not saying the functionality of the site would change, I'm not saying it'll go from a discussion site to a "who did what and what happened over it" gossip site but there is what seems to be a lack of action by mods dealing with certain posters, it's been mentioned numerous times in this thread and all we get back is basically just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Clearly nothing did happen if one particular user keeps soapboxing across numerous threads?

Boom_Bap · 29-03-2018 02:09PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

I'm not saying the functionality of the site would change, I'm not saying it'll go from a discussion site to a "who did what and what happened over it" gossip site but there is what seems to be a lack of action by mods dealing with certain posters, it's been mentioned numerous times in this thread and all we get back is basically just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Clearly nothing did happen if one particular user keeps soapboxing across numerous threads?

If not done already, I'd suggest reporting one of the posts to alert the mods to it.
I'm fairly active and I even have no clue who you are talking about

....... · 29-03-2018 02:11PM

This post has been deleted.

robarmstrong · 29-03-2018 02:12PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

If not done already, I'd suggest reporting one of the posts to alert the mods to it.
I'm fairly active and I even have no clue who you are talking about

That's the problem, the posts have been reported, and all it ends in is a mod note telling them to stop soapboxing, they stop for a few pages then they go back at it again, so either there's a failure of communication somewhere or there's no repercussions. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see how often someone is punished for their carry on, but I want to know that they are being punished for it, otherwise we're back to the animosity between posters during a pretty good discussion!

I also hope that's sarcasm:D

Skylinehead · 29-03-2018 02:14PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

How could it be open to abuse? Honestly, how do you think it could be open to abuse? Let's say user A calls user B a wanker because user B has been trolling. User A gets a warning but doesn't see any action taken towards user B. Which leads to animosity and a feeling that mods aren't taking actions.

There is no clear way to please everyone, but there are definitely improvements to be made.

I just think that people will use the opportunity to bring up other peoples infractions as a tool in arguments, however irrelevant. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

As an aside, infractions are visible in users profiles. Bans aren't.

KERSPLAT! · 29-03-2018 02:14PM

gandalf wrote: »

In my time on boards I modded Politics, Humanities, Soccer, Photography, Airsoft and was CMod of Society (obviously not all at the same time). I modded Politics during 911 and Soccer during the Saipan incident so yes I moderated high volumes. To be fair posting a single line in a thread does not add that much to the work load and it would address a lot of the transparency issues that exist ATM and are the source of bad feelings. It's just a suggestion and believe me I know the pain of moderation on this site. I wouldn't go back to it even if they were matching what I get paid by my current employer.

We see it differently then. Adding that "single line" on top of all the other bits is a further step in the wrong direction. There aren't many jumping at the chance to mod AH any more and mods are dropping like flies.

Let mods focus on modding and not further admin work. Now if it was auto generated I might feel differently though like above I think it would be open to abuse and used as a stick to beat offending posters with.

McMurphy · 29-03-2018 02:14PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

How could it be open to abuse? Honestly, how do you think it could be open to abuse? Let's say user A calls user B a wanker because user B has been trolling. User A gets a warning but doesn't see any action taken towards user B. Which leads to animosity and a feeling that mods aren't taking actions.

There is no clear way to please everyone, but there are definitely improvements to be made.

Users infractions records should be visible to the user and mods/admins only.

Imagine the baiting and flaming that would go on if, say for example you had access to a posters action history, in a forum he or she has racked up a few actions on.

Knowing someone's on thin ice/probation or whatever would then be an open season invitation to attempt to get them over the edge to a forum ban etc.

Non runner.

gandalf · 29-03-2018 02:21PM

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

We see it differently then. Adding that "single line" on top of all the other bits is a further step in the wrong direction. There aren't many jumping at the chance to mod AH any more and mods are dropping like flies.

Let mods focus on modding and not further admin work. Now if it was auto generated I might feel differently though like above I think it would be open to abuse and used as a stick to beat offending posters with.

Yep I see it as a means to demonstrate to users that reporting posts works and also demonstrates to the user base that bad behaviour is dealt with. I take your point on more admin work and maybe it's something that could be coded into the banning process. As I said it's a suggestion on how to deal with a user frustration that has been articulated for years on numerous feedback threads.

robarmstrong · 29-03-2018 02:22PM

That's a load of bull.

We already have access to posters post history, all it would take is to go through it and pick out yourself right now if you really wanted to bait or flame.

Infractions should be visible, I received my infractions (some reversed for being unfair) and I've no problem with people viewing them regardless if they've been reversed or not.

Someone mentioned not many are jumping at the chance to mod AH, well I'd do it not a bother because the sheer amount of flaming and baiting and soapboxing that goes unpunished is ridiculous and it does need to be stamped out but I'm not a mod, so I can't help.

robarmstrong · 29-03-2018 02:30PM

gandalf wrote: »

Yep I see it as a means to demonstrate to users that reporting posts works and also demonstrates to the user base that bad behaviour is dealt with. I take your point on more admin work and maybe it's something that could be coded into the banning process. As I said it's a suggestion on how to deal with a user frustration that has been articulated for years on numerous feedback threads.

This.

Without it users will always think people are getting away unscathed when they're not. I've a good bit of knowledge regarding coding and websites (particular fluting about with vbulletin boards) so I'd gladly throw my hat in to help out in adding that into the process if it's required.

KERSPLAT! · 29-03-2018 02:33PM

I understand the points raised but I don't see this as a necessity.

Barry Badrinath · 29-03-2018 02:36PM

People here are blaming the Mods for the state of the place.

Its the posters that have this place in shyte, bunch of bastards.

seagull · 29-03-2018 02:49PM

Beasty wrote: »

How would you know what sanction has, or has not, been applied to a removed post?

I think there's an argument that if a deleted post is deemed to warrant further sanction against the poster, then there should be a note left to that effect. Similar to where a post is mod edited, and the poster is told not to post in the thread again. It would probably reduce frustrations if you see that an obnoxious post has resulted in the poster being banned, rather than just seeing the post gone.

Skylinehead · 29-03-2018 02:49PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

.

Infractions should be visible

They are.

robarmstrong · 29-03-2018 02:52PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

They are.

I can't view other peoples infractions, I know one lad in particular got an infraction but I can't view it on their profile for some reason?

The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18