Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

sporina · 29-03-2018 12:52PM

no know here knows what really went on that night - all we know is the evidence that was submitted in court - and the jurors gave an unanimous verdict - so I don't know why people are giving their own twist on things..

blanch152 · 29-03-2018 12:52PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That witness was the key. In any court case, where there is a "he said, she said" situation, any third-party evidence, whether eyewitness or forensic, carries significant weight.

mayolady14 · 29-03-2018 12:53PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

L

The complainant has the option of bringing a civil case to the courts for the stress and other suffering incurred from being raped. This case would be decided upon by a judge under the balance of probabilities and only monetary penalties could be exacted.

When considering reaction to rape I hate the idea of a passive rape victim simply because you can't prove it. Fight and you will always have defensive wounds to show force. Not saying that it's only rape you fight but it's much easier to prove if you do.

Unless you’ve been a victim of sexual violence please stop telling victims how to behave ðŸ‘ðŸ¼ All well and good acting like you’d be the perfect victim but you honestly don’t know what you’d do if it actually happened to you

Mr.H · 29-03-2018 12:54PM

Sidebaro wrote: »

We agree on something.

Post #488, you never answered me? I feel you're not going to. No retort?

is that Post #488 to me?? Because I am sorry I cant remember that far back. I assumed you were talking to someone else but this isnt the first time you mentioned that post

Sidebaro · 29-03-2018 12:55PM

Mr.H wrote:

The only thing false is the outrage here that these innocent men were set free.

Take your own advice, move on from that. Deal with the questions put to you that aren't about that. Stop cherry picking what you want to answer. Post #488. About the 10th time I've alerted you to it. Always ignore me and pick out the idiots posts for easy replies so you can appear clever and righteous

retro:electro · 29-03-2018 12:56PM

optogirl wrote: »

This sums up my frustration with this trial

If I was a juror I’d be pretty pissed off that all my reasoning, committed time and energy and measuring up of evidence and arguments was reduced to such bias and petty measures and being used as a fcuking meme to pass around on social media to point score.
And don’t even get me started on the “theory on Twitter... point”.

Isshelying · 29-03-2018 12:56PM

The scary thing is any man here could find themselves in the same position as the 4 men here. Even when they are found innocent, they're still guilty. It's little wonder men are so bothered about this.

Would the #ibelieveher crowd be as dismissive of due process if it was their son, brother or father being persecuted even after acquittal?

As regards the way they treated the woman that night, it has to be noted that many women enjoy being spitroasted and used in a submissive manner. You only need to look at sites like FetLife to see how widespread it is. There's nothing degrading in it when its safe, sane and consensual but try telling that to the ardent feminists who believe no woman could enjoy it.

Im not saying that was the case that night but on the surface it appears to be. She regretted her actions afterwards and tried to put on a show of being forced into it rather than admitting the slightly embarassing truth that she was an active and willing participant. When she realised in the cold sober light of day that other people knew what she had done, she initiated reptutation damage control.

Sidebaro · 29-03-2018 12:56PM

Uncharted wrote:

Uurggh. All the best with your self loathing and faux outrage. I'm going for lunch.

Yes! I won a fight on the internet! Hoorah

facehugger99 · 29-03-2018 12:58PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Suspended sentence, fines, community service. Host of non- custodial option available.

blanch152 · 29-03-2018 12:58PM

optogirl wrote: »

This sums up my frustration with this trial

The problem with that list, is that it is a list made up by an observer, who extracted and summarised part, and only part of the evidence. It is the jury who sat through weeks of all the evidence and made up their mind.

The Talking Bread · 29-03-2018 12:58PM

Sidebaro wrote: »

Mr.H wrote:

The only thing false is the outrage here that these innocent men were set free.

Take your own advice, move on from that. Deal with the questions put to you that aren't about that. . Post #488. About the 10th time I've alerted you to it. s

So we have seen. He isn't replying FFS

AudreyHepburn · 29-03-2018 12:58PM

Sidebaro wrote: »

Both are about women's rights. Fairly easy connection to make if you try hard enough?

But the trial did not impinge in any way on her rights. She got the fair trial she was entitled to.

Or do you think a woman’s right should being able to accuse a man of rape and have him put away no questions asked?

languagenerd · 29-03-2018 12:58PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

All across social media platforms people are saying that them being found not guilty doesn't make them innocent.

If ever there was a trial that showed us why those accused of such crimes as these should not be named in the media, it's this one.

To be fair, I think a lot of that is to counter all the people saying "When is she going to be named now that her lies are exposed?!" "I assume this ***** will be arrested now for lying and wasting police time", "The lads better sue her for defamation and lost earnings now!" etc. Yesterday's verdict says "It has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt that the four men did what they were accused of", but it does not mean "It was proven that the girl lied.". If a case was taken against her for false allegations/perjury etc, it would likely have the same outcome. Not enough evidence to prove it either way. I think everyone needs to remember that as much as they need to accept the verdict.

I definitely agree that they shouldn't be named - if the case was held in the Republic, they wouldn't have been named, there would have been no public gallery and much less live reporting. I think this case has been really damaging for a lot of people, including a lot of rape victims who had no involvement in it.

jammiedodgers · 29-03-2018 12:59PM

optogirl wrote: »

This sums up my frustration with this trial

"88% of porn contains violence against women"

First of all that statistic is complete bull****.
Second of all, what in the name of jaysus has that got to do with this trial?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 29-03-2018 01:00PM

mayolady14 wrote: »

Unless you’ve been a victim of sexual violence please stop telling victims how to behave ðŸ‘ðŸ¼ All well and good acting like you’d be the perfect victim but you honestly don’t know what you’d do if it actually happened to you

Not sexual violence but I have been a victim of violence. I've been hit by a car and told that there was no evidence I'd been hit by a car. I'd had someone swing at me with a knife and been told it's a pity I didn't let them stab me because it would be an easier case to get a sentence.

Let's not pretend that sexual violence is the only type of crime in the world and that only victims can comment.

I'm just talking about evidence and making something obvious. If you lie there it becomes your word against there's as to whether it's consensual. If several people see the incident it looks consensual. That's all I am saying. It's regrettable that that's what happens in the world but evidence makes convictions happen.

Sidebaro · 29-03-2018 01:00PM

Mr.H wrote:

is that Post #488 to me?? Because I am sorry I cant remember that far back. I assumed you were talking to someone else but this isnt the first time you mentioned that post

No worries, you don't have to remember, you can just go back to that specific post. Awaiting your reply eagerly!

29-03-2018 01:01PM

top shaggers..

{sigh..}

like..jesus christ..

Depp · 29-03-2018 01:02PM

retro:electro wrote: »

If I was a juror I’d be pretty pissed off that all my reasoning, committed time and energy and measuring up of evidence and arguments was reduced to such bias and petty measures and being used as a fcuking meme to pass around on social media to point score.
And don’t even get me started on the “theory on Twitter... point”.

between that and the porn bit it loses all credibility, what possible relevance could how violent porn is have on the facts of this case?

Sidebaro · 29-03-2018 01:02PM

Isshelying wrote:

The scary thing is any man here could find themselves in the same position as the 4 men here. Even when they are found innocent, they're still guilty. It's little wonder men are so bothered about this.

The scary thing is any woman could find themselves in the same position as the woman here. It's little wonder women are so bothered about this.

mayolady14 · 29-03-2018 01:03PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Not sexual violence but I have been a victim of violence. I've been hit by a car and told that there was no evidence I'd been hit by a car. I'd had someone swing at me with a knife and been told it's a pity I didn't let them stab me because it would be an easier case to get a sentence.

Let's not pretend that sexual violence is the only type of crime in the world and that only vixtims can comment.

I'm just talking about evidence and making something obvious. If you lie there it becomes your word against there's as to whether it's consensual. If several people see the incident it looks consensual. That's all I am saying. It's regrettable that that's what happens in the world but evidence makes convictions happen.

Completely different I’m sorry now and I appreciate they’re traumatic events but you honestly don’t know what you would do if you were raped. I was taller and stronger than the man who raped me and I still froze and didn’t fight. Stop telling people how to be victims and start believing victims it’s not rocket science

blanch152 · 29-03-2018 01:03PM

mayolady14 wrote: »

Unless you’ve been a victim of sexual violence please stop telling victims how to behave ðŸ‘ðŸ¼ All well and good acting like you’d be the perfect victim but you honestly don’t know what you’d do if it actually happened to you

You don't know whether s/he has been a victim of sexual violence.

Being a victim doesn't give someone any more credibility to speak out.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 29-03-2018 01:04PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The biggest issue is having to clear a "beyond a reasonable doubt" hurdle. Almost impossible where it's one person's word against another's ( or 4 others).

If there was a third option of allowing a jury to convict on the balance of probabilities, with a lesser sentence associated with this conviction.

.

There is no lesser sentence. You may serve less time, but you will be associated with this type of crime for the rest of your time. For this reason, the burden of proof has to be high

mayolady14 · 29-03-2018 01:06PM

blanch152 wrote: »

You don't know whether s/he has been a victim of sexual violence.

Being a victim doesn't give someone any more credibility to speak out.

Not about credibility to speak out. It’s about everyone who says “you should fight your attacker” “if it was me I’d scream the house down” when you don’t have a ****ing clue what you’d do in that situation because you’ve never been in it. It pisses me off that people think they can tell victims how to behave or not believe a victim because she didn’t act how they would’ve.

Sidebaro · 29-03-2018 01:06PM

AudreyHepburn wrote:

But the trial did not impinge in any way on her rights. She got the fair trial she was entitled to.

Not 100% sure but I think that post of mine was explaining to somebody who asked what the hashtag for repeal and iBelieveher had in common. I didn't mention women's right in relation to the trial.

AudreyHepburn wrote:

Or do you think a womanâ€™s right should being able to accuse a man of rape and have him put away no questions asked?

So, obviously as a result of what I wrote above, I don't believe this. Nor would I believe it anyway. That's a ridiculous concept. Very foolish question from you.

pleas advice · 29-03-2018 01:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

top shaggers..

{sigh..}

like..jesus christ..

lock 'em up so, I've seen enough

Hector Savage · 29-03-2018 01:08PM

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

I am protesting because she was interrogated for 8 days. Seriously what do women want? Instant rape conviction for any accused man?

Yes, thats what some dangerous feminists like Louise O Neill and Una Mullaly want - and they have been given platforms like the Irish Examiner to spout this nonsense.

Permabear · 29-03-2018 01:09PM

This post has been deleted.

Isshelying · 29-03-2018 01:12PM

Sidebaro wrote: »

The scary thing is any woman could find themselves in the same position as the woman here. It's little wonder women are so bothered about this.

You mean a situation where she hasnt been raped??

CIARAN_BOYLE · 29-03-2018 01:12PM

mayolady14 wrote: »

Completely different I’m sorry now and I appreciate they’re traumatic events but you honestly don’t know what you would do if you were raped. I was taller and stronger than the man who raped me and I still froze and didn’t fight. Stop telling people how to be victims and start believing victims it’s not rocket science

Violence is violence. Crime is crime. Adrenaline does crazy **** to people. Freezing is a honest reaction. I'm sorry that you suffered.

I'm not telling anyone how to be victims.

I'm saying that evidence is needed to convict people and that in a case of word vs word reasonable doubt comes into play, the easiest way to produce additional evidence is that sexual consent was not present is defensive wounds form a struggle.

What did one witness say, that they just saw a consenual threesome. It's very hard to get evidence to convict someone for rape out of that. I don't know what happened that night in Belfast. I do know there was not enough evidence to convict anyone of rape.

If a rape did occur I am disappointed that there is not enough evidence to convict rapists.

If a rape did not occur I am glad that no one has to falsely face prison.

Fortunately or unfortunately a jury has unanimously decided to declare that the four men involved are not guilty.

In my mind if a jury says not guilty then we can't consider a rape to have occurred. In my mind therefore Paddy Jacson .Stuart Olding and the other individuals involved are only guilty of being little ****s and that is not a crime,

Will I Am Not · 29-03-2018 01:14PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

There’s a protest at The Spire organised by Ruth Coppinger. I heard one girl being interviewed from there, f*ck me, these clichéd, purple haired, snarling feminists do actually exist here

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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