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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Augeo wrote: »
    But she said Jackson was having sex with the girl, from behind. Jackson denies this, the girl claims he was raping her.

    So the witness and the girl are both claiming that he penetrated her with his penis, Jackson denies this.

    I cannot fathom how a jury can take the eye witness account as a major reason of finding Jackson not guilty. If they found her credible than why seemingly ignore the penetratiion aspect of her account?

    Even if he DID penetrate her with his penis, that is not the same thing as rape. And there was zero DNA evidence of it - whereas Stuart Olding's semen was all over her.

    I actually think Paddy Jackson told the truth - he was too drunk to do anything other than finger her. If he was kneeling behind her and making rhythmic movements this could easily be mistaken for sex.

    Also the "sexual noises" and "moaning" described by the other girl outside the room.

    When she came in the room they stopped. This means presumably Paddy would have stopped what he was doing.
    The witness told the police in her statement: “I would not say the female was distressed”. This afternoon in Laganside Crown Court she said this remains her recollection “100 per cent.”

    She agreed with counsel for Mr Jackson, Brendan Kelly QC, that “there was no sign of any distress at all”.

    Before reaching the bedroom she said she was calling her friend’s name. She said she heard “moaning and noise” coming from the bedroom. She said the moaning did not sound “distressed”.

    On day 12 of the trial, Belfast Crown Court today heard Ms Florence describe the scene as she opened Mr Jackson’s bedroom door in search of the friend.

    She told the jury: “Paddy was like sitting on his knees, (the complainant) had her bum up against him having sex and her head was down towards Stuart’s middle.”

    Ms Florence, who said she had never met the rugby players before that night, later told police: “When I left the room I did not feel as if I had witnessed rape.”

    Dara Florence, who didn’t know at the time that her friend had gone to sleep upstairs, told the court she was only one in the house who was not drinking on the night.

    As she walked up the stairs she said she heard “some kind of noise, moaning, I thought it was Emily.

    “It wasn’t distressed or anything like that”

    She added it was a female and that: “I don’t know if I would describe it as sexual.”

    She was asked, she said, by Mr Jackson: “Do you want to join in?”

    “I said ‘no’,” Ms Florence said.

    “I closed the door, kind of laughed and turned around and said ‘I just seen a threesome’ and then we went downstairs.”

    I don't know about anyone else but this doesn't sound like rape at all and there is no way in hell I could convict based on that evidence from a sober witness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    Also it means all 3 with each other, with one at each end the only contact would usually be eye. And maybe a high five.

    Off-topic to the trial but on topic to this discussion.

    Once was asked by someone in work what my plans for the weekend were, told her two of my friends may be visiting and we will just go site seeing. When she found out they were both women she asked me deadpan seriously "ménage à trois?"

    I wish I had recorded my shocked and confused reaction while I stuttered out that we were just friends. She just nodded said ok and went back to work. Still can't believe how normal her question seemed to her haha!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    david75 wrote: »
    This’ll freak all you fragile Menimists out but there’s rallies tomorrow

    Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

    Belfast Courthouse
    Dublin, the Spire
    Limerick, Bedford Row

    Please RT.

    Ugh more pathetic attacks by the alphabet soup brigade on our legal systems because they don't get their way.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,268 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    david75 wrote: »
    This’ll freak all you fragile Menimists out but there’s rallies tomorrow

    Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

    Belfast Courthouse
    Dublin, the Spire
    Limerick, Bedford Row

    Please RT.

    The fcuk is a menimist?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    pjohnson wrote: »
    The fcuk is a menimist?

    Some new SJW buzzword by the sounds of it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    david75 wrote: »
    This’ll freak all you fragile Menimists out but there’s rallies tomorrow

    Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

    Belfast Courthouse
    Dublin, the Spire
    Limerick, Bedford Row

    Please RT.

    Think I'll walk the Sydney Harbour Bridge tomorrow in solidarity with the menimist movement. :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭Nermal


    If a case like this doesn't lead to anonymity for defendants, what will?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Bunny Colvin


    david75 wrote: »
    This’ll freak all you fragile Menimists out but there’s rallies tomorrow

    Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

    Belfast Courthouse
    Dublin, the Spire
    Limerick, Bedford Row

    Please RT.

    This isn't the OJ case. Nobody was hard done by. Maybe instead of taking part in rallies they should just respect the jury's verdict. I suppose they have an agenda and lots of sympathy to garner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,283 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    pjohnson wrote: »
    The fcuk is a menimist?

    Another term for Male Rights Activists (MRA).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Do you not accept the verdict?


    ? I don’t care either way tbh. I was just taking the piss out of a certain element here.


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  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    professore wrote: »
    Even if he DID penetrate her with his penis, that is not the same thing as rape. And there was zero DNA evidence of it - whereas Stuart Olding's semen was all over her.

    I actually think Paddy Jackson told the truth - he was too drunk to do anything other than finger her. If he was kneeling behind her and making rhythmic movements this could easily be mistaken for sex. .................

    I don't know about anyone else but this doesn't sound like rape at all and there is no way in hell I could convict based on that evidence from a sober witness.

    The same witness that was adament the lady was being penetrated by Jackson, though Jackson denies this. The witness is either credible or not IMO, bits of her account can't be deemed credible and other bits not so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Ugh more pathetic attacks by the alphabet soup brigade on the Northern Irish legal systems because they don't get their way.....

    FYP


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 300 ✭✭garbo speaks


    david75 wrote: »
    This’ll freak all you fragile Menimists out but there’s rallies tomorrow

    Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

    Belfast Courthouse
    Dublin, the Spire
    Limerick, Bedford Row

    Please RT.

    Makes sense; a weekday march where the only people marching will be wacko leftist, snowflake student nutjobs with no jobs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Fanny Wank


    I've said it more than once. I really hope I'm never on trial for a crime I didn't commit. Some of the people posting on this thread could be members of the jury FFS


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    This isn't the OJ case. Nobody was hard done by. Maybe instead of taking part in rallies they should just respect the jury's verdict. I suppose they have an agenda and lots of sympathy to garner.

    :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    david75 wrote: »
    This’ll freak all you fragile Menimists out but there’s rallies tomorrow

    Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

    Belfast Courthouse
    Dublin, the Spire
    Limerick, Bedford Row

    Please RT.
    Didn't take you for the type who would be into populist lynchmob vigilantism


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,314 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Do you not accept the verdict?

    Going by his first post he's part of the hashtag movement!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,241 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Debtocracy wrote: »
    Looking at social media, I feel very worried that a feminist zeigest could have made an example of these men.

    Feminist zeigest (sic)?

    It appears your fears were misplaced. The reality is it's extremely difficult to secure a conviction for this type of crime.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    david75 wrote: »
    This’ll freak all you fragile Menimists out but there’s rallies tomorrow

    Solidarity rallies to say #IBelieveHer tomorrow at half 12:

    Belfast Courthouse
    Dublin, the Spire
    Limerick, Bedford Row

    Please RT.
    Didn't take you for the type who would be into populist lynchmob vigilantism


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    pjohnson wrote: »
    The fcuk is a menimist?

    Apparently it's a word mentally defective people call any other people who don't agree with their made-up inferiority/victim complexes


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    FYP

    Not from what i'm reading on twitter many are making the same claims about the ROI justice system regardless of the jurisdiction this case was in


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    pjohnson wrote: »
    The fcuk is a menimist?


    I wasn’t sure either but I think it’s time it was embraced and taken back from the feminazis!

    I’m joking by the way. Menimists is funny though. They’re very fragile


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Bunny Colvin


    :pac:

    Less of that now or else I'll organise a rally. I might organise one for myself anyway, been a while since I had a good march on a Thursday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Not all at surprised by the judgement.

    I'd always suspected the woman in question was indulging in post "bad-sex" thinking to exculpate her own behaviour


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Stuart Oldings statement through his solicitor outside court is a lot classier than a lot of comments here.

    He apologised to the girl and acknowledged it was her perception. He doesn't agree with her perception, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he essentially admits nobody wins in this trial.

    People need to get into their heads that, while the jury said not guilty, they did not return a guilty verdict to the complainant for lying.

    I pray the posters here who make it sound so black and white never have a family member go through the same thing as the complainant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    david75 wrote: »
    ...Menimists is funny though. They’re very fragile

    My fuckin' brain is fragile after reading that word. As if we weren't bad enough, like! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Augeo wrote: »
    The same witness that was adament the lady was being penetrated by Jackson, though Jackson denies this. The witness is either credible or not IMO, bits of her account can't be deemed credible and other bits not so.

    In fairness when people walk in on sex they usually don't stare but quickly look away. It's completely possible she thought she saw more than she did. Especially with a bit of alcohol involved.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    baylah17 wrote: »
    Didn't take you for the type who would be into populist lynchmob vigilantism


    God no. I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. Just interesting seeing the polarisation events like this case causes. More and more extreme each time.
    Masculine fragility though I do find entertaining.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    py2006 wrote: »
    Eh, I am talking about rich and famous guys getting lots of female attention and opportunities.

    So because they are rich and famous they don't need to be respectful?

    Opportunity does not equal right. Maybe I picked your post up wrong but jesus wept it didn't make for good reading


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  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    meeeeh wrote: »
    In fairness when people walk in on sex they usually don't stare but quickly look away. It's completely possible she thought she saw more than she did. Especially with a bit of alcohol involved.

    she was sober iirc according to the poster I was quoting.
    She also admitted that she saw no active consent.


This discussion has been closed.
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