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Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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Comments

  • #1832
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    $ausage$ wrote: »
    Big difference in being found not guilty and innocent

    Would you feel the same if what you got up to behind closed doors was broadcast to the world? Nobody is completely innocent when under the microscope.

    They committed no crime. They should be welcomed back


  • #1833
    joseywhales
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Well technically they did nothing wrong apart from some adolescent texting. I'd put that not far off the spectrum of young lads in their early twenties. Their actions were a bit selfish, they didn't show much care or concern at the time for the complainant but again who am I to judge, I've known plenty of people at that age with very little empathy. I think the big question is if they are mentally tough enough to bear it and keep playing, not to mention the possible abuse and general coldness they will receive. Maybe even teammates will be more distant. Jackson seems pretty mentally tough.


  • #1834
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    whatawaster wrote: »
    All that has come out in this trial imo is that they are not particularly pleasant lads.

    If you followed the trial closely, there was very little from Paddy Jackson in those text messages. It was largely McIlroy and partly Olding. Jackson's involvement was minimal.

    But he is the biggest name in the mess and this is seen by many as the Jackson rape trial.

    Nobody is coming out of this a winner. It's a complete losing situation for all.


  • #1835
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    $ausage$ wrote: »
    Yeh because they don't have business managers or agents working for them to do that when they are busy with other things.....

    These things do not happen in isolation from the player. I doubt where they will play next if they don't go to jail is at the forefront of their minds. Besides, Jackson at least is not free to sign another contract yet.

    What club with an iota of sense is going to start negotiating contracts for a player on trial for rape anyway!?


  • #1836
    $ausage$
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭$ausage$


    They were found not guilty in the courts yes, but we will NEVER know what really happened so no point wasting time any more on it.


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  • #1837
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Most of the immature texts were from the third defendant anyway, who no longer plays for Ulster

    Edit Buer beat me to it!


  • #1838
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    $ausage$ wrote: »
    Big difference in being found not guilty and innocent

    In practice yes but legally they have been innocent the entire time, the job of the trial is to prove guilt.


  • #1839
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Synode wrote: »
    They committed no crime. They should be welcomed back

    It's not the world we live in and they won't be welcomed back at all by a significant number of people. The genie is out of the bottle on this one and the lads are going to have to suffer the consequences of that regardless of whether it's right or not right down to Harrison who did very little and was just thrown in to the mix by association.

    They've come through a massively public rape trial. Their lives are never going back to where they were either personally or professionally.


  • #1840
    $ausage$
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭$ausage$


    just a question on this but do the 4 guys get their legal fees paid by someone else now? If not DAM! I am sure that is some hit to the pocket all be it better than being behind bars.


  • #1841
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    $ausage$ wrote: »
    just a question on this but do the 4 guys get their legal fees paid by someone else now? If not DAM! I am sure that is some hit to the pocket all be it better than being behind bars.

    The state will pay it as they took the case


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  • #1842
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Given the absolute shít show on twitter and elsewhere I'm actually glad the mods kept this out of the forum whether for legal reasons or otherwise.

    It's been a very nasty trial with large groups of people incapable of showing any empathy to either side.


  • #1843
    MJohnston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,742 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I'm basing my distaste for them entirely on the statements they made both to the police and in court. I don't think they have a place at a club like Ulster which tries to present itself as family friendly, and that's just my opinion. You're free to have a different opinion, but please don't start lecturing me on how they should be considered to be squeaky clean just because they weren't convicted, or how I'm overstating their "locker room talk".


  • #1844
    launish116
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭launish116


    $ausage$ wrote: »
    just a question on this but do the 4 guys get their legal fees paid by someone else now? If not DAM! I am sure that is some hit to the pocket all be it better than being behind bars.
    Had heard one of the Barristers was wanting £100,000 up front before even looking at the case for the defence. You'd like they get something back after that verdict.


  • #1845
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Given the absolute shít show on twitter and elsewhere I'm actually glad the mods kept this out of the forum whether for legal reasons or otherwise.

    It's been a very nasty trial with large groups of people incapable of showing any empathy to either side.

    Twitter is a disgrace in general but highlighted on this case. The lads were guilty walking in the door to some and to others she's a liar and should be locked up. No middle ground


  • #1846
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    The state will pay it as they took the case

    Surely that would only apply for court appointed defence? I'd be surprised if the state had to pick up the tab for the any barristers Jackson et al would pick.


  • #1847
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Buer wrote: »
    It's not the world we live in and they won't be welcomed back at all by a significant number of people. The genie is out of the bottle on this one and the lads are going to have to suffer the consequences of that regardless of whether it's right or not right down to Harrison who did very little and was just thrown in to the mix by association.

    They've come through a massively public rape trial. Their lives are never going back to where they were either personally or professionally.

    Absolutely not true. Their lives can and should go back to where they were. They done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. It's a disgrace that a case like that even went to trial with such little evidence


  • #1848
    OldRio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭OldRio


    $ausage$ wrote: »
    They were found not guilty in the courts yes, but we will NEVER know what really happened so no point wasting time any more on it.

    Innocent. Move on and save your moral outrage for the next 'juicy' newspaper scandal.


  • #1849
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I'm basing my distaste for them entirely on the statements they made both to the police and in court. I don't think they have a place at a club like Ulster which tries to present itself as family friendly, and that's just my opinion. You're free to have a different opinion, but please don't start lecturing me on how they should be considered to be squeaky clean just because they weren't convicted, or how I'm overstating their "locker room talk".

    People make extremely inappropriate remarks amongst friends they know will take it as dark humour. People brag and boast and can be dismissive of the opposite sex (I've heard plenty from both both men and women over the years).

    It's incredibly juvenile but had there been no rape trial and those comments had come out I've no doubt they would still be playing for Ulster and would have gone on some 'respect' coaching course to satisfy the public.


  • #1850
    MJohnston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,742 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    OldRio wrote: »
    Innocent. Move on and save your moral outrage for the next 'juicy' newspaper scandal.

    Not guilty does not equal innocent. So many people get this wrong.


  • #1851
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Synode wrote: »
    Absolutely not true. Their lives can and should go back to where they were. They done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. It's a disgrace that a case like that even went to trial with such little evidence

    What should happen and what can/will happen are rarely the same thing.

    I think it is plausible that they could end up back at Ulster but Buer is absolutely correct, their lives most definitely are not going back to where they were.


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  • #1852
    joseywhales
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    launish116 wrote: »
    $ausage$ wrote: »
    just a question on this but do the 4 guys get their legal fees paid by someone else now? If not DAM! I am sure that is some hit to the pocket all be it better than being behind bars.
    Had heard one of the Barristers was wanting £100,000 up front before even looking at the case for the defence. You'd like they get something back after that verdict.
    He was worth every penny


  • #1853
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Not guilty does not equal innocent. So many people get this wrong.

    There's not a soul in the world who's innocent. Bar maybe children but even they're sneaky gits :pac:


  • #1854
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Surely that would only apply for court appointed defence? I'd be surprised if the state had to pick up the tab for the any barristers Jackson et al would pick.

    Maybe, I find it hard to believe they'll have to pay for a case they didn't want or initiate and were found innocent in. They may pay the excess for the top barristers with the state taking up what it would've cost had they gone with assigned barristers


  • #1855
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,741 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Will Ulster Rugby make a statement on the verdict today? I suppose that'll be the telltale sign of whether they'll be returning or not.

    I'd imagine they'll want to stay away from Belfast and the limelight for a while. Although found not-guilty, with cases like this it's really a trial by social media, and people will have their opinions regardless of the result of the verdict.

    The remainder of this season will be a write off regardless, and I'd imagine if they were to return that Ulster would keep them at arm's length from the setup until the noise all dies down.


  • #1856
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Not guilty does not equal innocent. So many people get this wrong.

    Mod: We will not go down this road. He is not guilty of rape. That is the only relevant fact. Anything that is possibly defamatory will not be allowed. Keep your judgements on character to yourself. That goes for everyone.


  • #1857
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Synode wrote: »
    Absolutely not true. Their lives can and should go back to where they were. They done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. It's a disgrace that a case like that even went to trial with such little evidence

    You actually think their lives are going to return to how they were and they're not going to have their lives changed forever?


  • #1858
    joseywhales
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Ulster would be crazy to let jackson go, he could be the difference between champions cup rugby and challenge cup rugby for the next 3 years....oh and of course he is innocent.


  • #1859
    MJohnston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,742 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Deleted User wrote: »
    People make extremely inappropriate remarks amongst friends they know will take it as dark humour. People brag and boast and can be dismissive of the opposite sex (I've heard plenty from both both men and women over the years).

    It's incredibly juvenile but had there been no rape trial and those comments had come out I've no doubt they would still be playing for Ulster and would have gone on some 'respect' coaching course to satisfy the public.

    This is basically a hypothetical though and mostly irrelevant to me - those comments did come out, so now we have to individually process how we feel about the content of them (and other aspects of the case, not just the WhatsApp messages).


  • #1860
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Buer wrote: »
    You actually think their lives are going to return to how they were and they're not going to have their lives changed forever?

    Yes. This will all be forgotten very quickly when the mob's attention turns elsewhere


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  • #1861
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Jackson's solicitor read a statement just now, alluding to PJ getting back on the rugby pitch and representing his province and his country again. Not 100% sure, but I don't think his province is called Exeter.


This discussion has been closed.
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