Black out sex, my fault?

LegacyUser · 27-03-2018 02:23PM #1

Hi there,

I'm a boards user but going anon for this. I'm in a relationship but on Saturday night I went out with a friend to a pub and we got very drunk, I fully admit this. She was staying with me and she wanted to go home at about 3am but I wanted to stay on as we'd been chatting to a group of lads. So she left in a taxi and went back.

I admit that every once in a while (maybe once a year) I get black out drunk and can't remember what happens. So from about midnight to 6am I only have a handful of flashbacks. I remember being in a taxi but I don't remember who I was with, I have a vague feeling it was one of the guys I was chatting to. My friend filled in some of the gaps for me, and I found some text messages from her on my phone, she text me at about 3.45 and I replied saying that we were in a taxi, I didn't specify who. Anyway she told me that me and this guy arrived back to the house, so it was just the one, I couldn't even remember if there was anyone else in the taxi with me. So the next thing I remember is coming to at about 6am. I don't know if I woke up but all of a sudden I can start remembering again.

This guy that I was chatting to the night before was fully dressed and about to leave. I was still drunk even at this stage so my conversation with him is hazy in parts but I remember that he was very angry and I got very upset. Partially because I was still drunk and the realisation that I'd cheated, and also because he was being so vicious. He said that we had sex but that I fell asleep during it and he said quite a few rude things about me, like he wished he hadn't come back with me and that I'd given him a terrible blow job. All in all he was just an arse.

So I was crying and as he left he said he was sure he'd see me posting about how much I regret this on boards. So I'm worried that he knows my username. I have no idea who he could be or if he is on boards but I guess I must have mentioned something about it. I have a vague memory of having an argument with him about using a condom, but I couldn't find one in the bin or anywhere else so I assume one wasn't used. Because he was so rude, I wonder if he continued to have sex with me once I fell asleep, and I don't know if he ''finished'' or not. I felt very sore on Sunday and yesterday, more than I'd usually feel after having sex so I don't know if maybe we were just drunk and a bit carried away or if he was rough with me.

I have a lot of bruises on my legs and my back is sore as well as my foot and my hip. What worries me more though is that my neck feels sore and I have a bruise near my wrist. I assume I probably fell over but I'm worried about what he could have done to me that I can't remember. I know it's completely my fault for getting so drunk and I take responsibility for that and for cheating. I also know that I did bring him back home with me and I assume that I consented to have sex with him. I don't know how drunk he was to be fair to him, but I don't think he was as drunk as me. To be honest I feel a bit like I was taken advantage of and I feel freaked out that I don't know what was done to me.

When I went downstairs the next day I found my passport and my garda ID out on the counter and I wondered if he'd had a look at them and why he'd do that. I have a vague memory of him asking me to confirm that I was over 18, which is a bit odd as I'm in my late 20s, but there's no context to the memory. I feel so overwhelmed with guilt about what I've done to my partner and I'm also worried about STIs and pregnancy. I'm going to take emergency contraception and I'll go and get an STI check too. I admitted to my partner what happened today. I wasn't sure if I should or if it was just relieving my guilt but I felt that it was right to tell the truth. I'm just wondering what do people think? By the way, I know that drinking like this isn't healthy and I am seeing a therapist for my issues, not just drink related.

I've had sex in the past where I was quite drunk and blacked out and I knew myself it was my own fault, but in this instance I feel like this guy took advantage, there was something different about this situation and I'm wondering what others think.

Sorry for such a long post, just feeling so dreadful about all of this

Airyfairy12 · 27-03-2018 09:28PM

If I was you id speak to a rape crisis centre.
This isnt your fault, yes getting black out drunk was silly and bringing a strange man back home with you was irresponsible but that doesnt justify what he did. He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position. I think for most normal people when they encounter someone whose as intoxicated as you were, their reaction is to protect the drunk person, make sure they get home ok... not have sex with or harass them. It does to me sound like you were taken advantage of.

Dog walker 1234 · 27-03-2018 09:48PM

You are in a horrible situation. I think rape is a possibility, only you can decide that. You are doing the right things - emergency contraception and STI clinic. Telling you partner is also good. I hope you have support and guidance to help you deal with this.

mada82 · 27-03-2018 10:03PM

Worrying that rape is being mentioned. Everything sounds consensual in your story.

Pelvis · 27-03-2018 10:10PM

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position.

No, that's no clear at all.

What does your friend say OP. It sounds like she was up when you got home with this guy? Can she shed any light on what state you were in?

It's a sensitive subject. The fact that you were both in the pub till near 4am, I would assume you were both drinking all night?

LegacyUser · 27-03-2018 10:29PM

Hi there everyone,

OP here again. Thanks for your replies, I appreciate it. I didn't really think of contacting the rape crisis centre because I feel a bit silly doing so, I don't know how to feel. I feel like something is off and wrong about the whole situation, that's my gut, but I don't have any proof and I can't remember what happened. It could well have been consensual sex but I really don't know, I mean I fell asleep/passed out at one stage, according to the guy, so surely he realised how drunk I was. There are large parts of the night I don't remember like I said, but I know he was drinking, so he could have been drunk. Having said that though he was up and dressed and leaving at 6am and he seemed to be fine whereas I still felt drunk for several hours later. Maybe he was still drunk though, I can't be 100% sure. I asked my friend there if she remembered what condition I was in when I got back but she can't. She was quite drunk herself and all she can remember is that she was asleep so I was banging on the door to be let in, and she let us in and went to bed. She also remembers hearing us talking downstairs but nothing else.

ted1 · 27-03-2018 10:30PM

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If I was you id speak to a rape crisis centre.
This isnt your fault, yes getting black out drunk was silly and bringing a strange man back home with you was irresponsible but that doesnt justify what he did. He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position. I think for most normal people when they encounter someone whose as intoxicated as you were, their reaction is to protect the drunk person, make sure they get home ok... not have sex with or harass them. It does to me sound like you were taken advantage of.

If they were both drinking, explain how he “clearly took advantage “

Sounds more like buyers remorse.

strandroad · 27-03-2018 10:37PM

ted1 wrote: »

If they were both drinking, explain how he “clearly took advantage “

Sounds more like buyers remorse.

One thing is that if she remembers she wanted a condom and he went without it's like a recent case which resulted in a three year jail term.

OP please call or visit Rape Crisis Centre, they will help you to put things in perspective. It might be a nasty but consensual encounter and still make you feel horrible if too rough, unsafe etc.

rainbowtrout · 27-03-2018 10:48PM

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If I was you id speak to a rape crisis centre.
This isnt your fault, yes getting black out drunk was silly and bringing a strange man back home with you was irresponsible but that doesnt justify what he did. He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position. I think for most normal people when they encounter someone whose as intoxicated as you were, their reaction is to protect the drunk person, make sure they get home ok... not have sex with or harass them. It does to me sound like you were taken advantage of.

There's actually no proof of that. He could have given her the bruises, she might have got them from falling over. He might have asked her age to protect himself in case she was underage, which implies that consent was given.

She said he was drunk too, but she doesn't know how drunk and she doesn't really remember anything herself aside from his nasty comments the next morning.

Airyfairy12 · 27-03-2018 10:54PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's actually no proof of that. He could have given her the bruises, she might have got them from falling over. He might have asked her age to protect himself in case she was underage, which implies that consent was given.

She said he was drunk too, but she doesn't know how drunk and she doesn't really remember anything herself aside from his nasty comments the next morning.

I didn't say anything about her bruises.

She remembers arguing with him about a condom yet he didnt use one.
She has pain and discomfort indicating he was very rough with her.
He may have been drunk but he remembered the night, enough to humiliate her and throw things she did and said in her face in an attempt to upset her. Not only can she not remember much but she woke up drunk, she was much more intoxiacted than he was. He had the upper hand in this situation and he abused that.

27-03-2018 11:01PM

Jeez, can remember next to nothing , there's an assumption by the OP that she consented and there's rape accusations!!

I've posted in another thread how destructive a false claim can be, it can follow you for life......not withstanding that genuine rape cases are as destructive to the victim.

Taken advantage of?...maybe, rape? Cop yourselves on.

rainbowtrout · 27-03-2018 11:03PM

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I didn't say anything about her bruises.

She remembers arguing with him about a condom yet he didnt use one.
She has pain and discomfort indicating he was very rough with her.
He may have been drunk but he remembered the night, enough to humiliate her and throw things she did and said in her face in an attempt to upset her. Not only can she not remember much but she woke up drunk, she was much more intoxiacted than he was. He had the upper hand in this situation and he abused that.

Actually she said:

I have a vague memory of having an argument with him about using a condom, but I couldn't find one in the bin or anywhere else so I assume one wasn't used

Look I'm not trying to defend him, he does sound like a nasty piece of work from his comments, but she doesn't really remember anything from the night at all from when she got back to the house.

Most of her post is stuff she surmises that might have happened but has no proof either way unfortunately.

splinter65 · 27-03-2018 11:08PM

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I didn't say anything about her bruises.

She remembers arguing with him about a condom yet he didnt use one.
She has pain and discomfort indicating he was very rough with her.
He may have been drunk but he remembered the night, enough to humiliate her and throw things she did and said in her face in an attempt to upset her. Not only can she not remember much but she woke up drunk, she was much more intoxiacted than he was. He had the upper hand in this situation and he abused that.

Being a nasty boor is not a crime. Having the upper hand in a consensual sexual encounter is not a crime.
Reporting an encounter that you regret but you have no true memory of as rape is possibly a crime.

OwlsZat · 27-03-2018 11:12PM

I think a rape centre would be able to tell you if your injuries were likely related to the sex or not. That seems to be the only unknown.

We all make mistakes and you've told the truth. Turn the negative energy into positive improvement!

GingerLily · 27-03-2018 11:16PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Being a nasty boor is not a crime. Having the upper hand in a consensual sexual encounter is not a crime.

Having the upper hand in something supposedly consensual? That does not even make sense.

The OP doesn't sound like she wants to report a crime, she wants to understand how to cope with a nasty man who took advantage of her (or had the upper hand as you say) when she was legally too drunk to consent.

Airyfairy12 · 27-03-2018 11:21PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Actually she said:

Look I'm not trying to defend him, he does sound like a nasty piece of work from his comments, but she doesn't really remember anything from the night at all from when she got back to the house.

Most of her post is stuff she surmises that might have happened but has no proof either way unfortunately.

Just to clear something up I didnt say he raped her, I said he took advantage. The rape centre deals with all sorts of issues and can offer support to the OP. Either way regardless of if it was rape or not it sounds like an awful, traumatising experience. - The rape crises centre will help her with this. OP will need to get herself some medical checks just incase. The rape crises centre will help her with this too and they may be able to tell her if her injuries are caused from rape.

I dont care how summarized it is. What she said can be strong indication that she was taken advantage of. She was way more intoxicated than he was and he was absolutely aware of that. The fact he recounted the night to upset her and the fact she has pain and discomfort confirms that he had the upper hand in the situation.
Also he doesnt sound like the type to be mindful of the condom being left lying around - I cant imagine he would have bothered to dispose of it.

Neyite · 27-03-2018 11:23PM

Mod:

Sad that I should even have to say this, but can you all please remember there's a woman who's upset at the other end of your message. I shouldn't have to remind you all to keep the replies on topic, civil and helpful for the OP.

And if you could be a little bit kind to someone having a sh!t few days, that would be great. I've deleted the post that failed to meet those standards.

blacklilly · 27-03-2018 11:24PM

GingerLily wrote: »

Having the upper hand in something supposedly consensual? That does not even make sense.

The OP doesn't sound like she wants to report a crime, she wants to understand how to cope with a nasty man who took advantage of her (or had the upper hand as you say) when she was legally too drunk to consent.

What happens in a situations where both parties are legally too drunk to consent?

What is the definitaion of being “legally too drunk”.

You know this man may have massively regretted sleeping with the OP and this may go someway to explain his comments the following morning.

Rape is serious and a claim of rape in a situation such as the OP describes needs to be very carefully considered. If the OP truly believes that she was raped then I hope she gets justice but it’s shocking how quickly rape is mentioned when the OP herself seems to confirm that sex was consensual. There is also a possibility that a condom was used but flushed down a toilet.

Jenneke87 · 27-03-2018 11:50PM

Hey there,
I'm really sorry this has happend to you. It must be a terrible and frightening experience, not knowing what happend that night and unless your memory returns somehow you'll never know. I can imagine you're sick with worry right now, which is completely understandable.
I'm happy to read you've taken some steps to prevent this from happening again. You mentioned he may have some of your details..has he tried to contact you since the incident?
I'd fully echo previous advise given and to go and talk to someone. I hope that physically your bruises and pain have subsided somewhat now and that mentally you can get over this anguish. I wish you all the best.

qwerty13 · 28-03-2018 02:28AM

It sounds like both of you were very drunk, and that neither of you were much able to consent to anything. Drinking till approx 4am, you got a taxi, and had sex by 6am.

I think, from what you’ve said, that he could equally accuse you of rape. You were both high intoxicated idiots. I don’t know about him, but you said that you cheated (no judgement about that, do whatever you want to do). Is it possible though that this is feeding into your sense of not only regret, but that you believe that you wouldn’t have done it had he not allegedly ‘forced’ the situation?

If anything, I think the lesson from this is to not go home with a paralytic idiot - and also don’t be that paralytic idiot either, no matter how infrequent it is (once a year or not).

You might classify this as victim blaming. And I’m not saying that you completely *aren’t* a victim. To me though (a woman) it sounds like you got utterly trashed drunk, didn’t know what you were doing, and now regret it. If I’m entirely honest, you need to look at your drinking and behaviour. If you genuinely really truly think that he was way more together than you, and took complete advantage, that’s awful. If you were both really drunk and stupid, that’s a reflection on both of you. I don’t think anyone here can advise you which situation is the real one.

And I would have thought the norm is to flush a used condom away.

Malayalam · 28-03-2018 07:55AM

I do feel mercy for you so the following is not meant cruelly. But just so you can avoid future torment.
At some point in the proceedings you knew you were getting in too deep and carried on regardless. Like when your friend was going home at 3 am, and you could have gone with her - ''but I wanted to stay on as we'd been chatting to a group of lads.'' Note the word ''wanted''. This is the part of the story where your self-preservation and self-responsibilty should have kicked in. You know it too, deep down. You chose to be reckless. Recklessness is not a sin but you have to own it. I did that once too when I was very young and very naive and - yes, reckless! - and I paid a heavy price.

It was bad idea for you both, bad awkward roughshod sex between two inebriated bodies wherein one was recklessly limp and the other was recklessly hard, a regrettable happening, but consensual it appears, thus not rape.

You are an active part of all this. Calling rape will only postpone the day when you will have to meet yourself - not to mention it could destroy someone elses life when all they did was about the same as you. It would be best to use the experience to look very seriously at your drinking to black out point. That's really what is going on here. It will only keep on getting you into this kind of torment and trouble. Mind yourself.

nermal15 · 28-03-2018 08:23AM

No one has suggested that the OP report this man to the police, so everyone getting worked up about ‘false claims’ are really jumping the gun. Just because someone feels used, confused about a sexual experience and wants to call the Rape Crisis Centre for advice and support does not mean they are falsely accusing someone of anything. No matter what, this was a distressing experience for the OP and she deserves support and understanding.

OP, I hope you find someone unbiased to talk to about this who will give you some help. You are allowed to feel guilty for your part in what happened as well as feeling upset with how you were treated. Take care of yourself.

Side note: Condoms should not be flushed down the toilet.

mada82 · 28-03-2018 08:36AM

Malayalam wrote: »

I do feel mercy for you so the following is not meant cruelly. But just so you can avoid future torment.
At some point in the proceedings you knew you were getting in too deep and carried on regardless. Like when your friend was going home at 3 am, and you could have gone with her - ''but I wanted to stay on as we'd been chatting to a group of lads.'' Note the word ''wanted''. This is the part of the story where your self-preservation and self-responsibilty should have kicked in. You know it too, deep down. You chose to be reckless. Recklessness is not a sin but you have to own it. I did that once too when I was very young and very naive and - yes, reckless! - and I paid a heavy price.

It was bad idea for you both, bad awkward roughshod sex between two inebriated bodies wherein one was recklessly limp and the other was recklessly hard, a regrettable happening, but consensual it appears, thus not rape.

You are an active part of all this. Calling rape will only postpone the day when you will have to meet yourself - not to mention it could destroy someone elses life when all they did was about the same as you. It would be best to use the experience to look very seriously at your drinking to black out point. That's really what is going on here. It will only keep on getting you into this kind of torment and trouble. Mind yourself.

Spot on.

qwerty13 · 28-03-2018 09:04AM

Not trying to make you feel awful, but you chose to stay out ‘chatting to a group of lads’ after your friend left, you chose to bring this guy home with you, you chose to bang on the door until your friend let you in, and you chose to cheat.

Look, do whatever you want like, but if the guy was anywhere near as drunk as you say you were, why are you choosing to blame him? However, if you were on an entirely different level of inebriation to him, well that’s not good.

It seems like you don’t really know what, how or why stuff happened - but yet you’ve decided that it’s definitely his fault. Maybe you are right in that, I wasn’t there, I don’t know. I think it’s worth at least considering that there was a pair of you in it, and you had very drunk and crappy sex - and that you both regretted it pretty much straight away afterwards.

LegacyUser · 28-03-2018 09:51AM

Hi op here

Just to clear some things up. I have no intention to go to the guards about this. Like I said I can't remember what happened so I can't make any kind of claim. I wouldn't do it to him and I wouldn't put myself through it unless I had proof and I don't.

As for the condom, yes he could have flushed it down the toilet but I also looked for the wrapper and found none in the bedroom or in the bin. He could have taken it with him but I don't see why he would have.

Basically my gut feeling is that I was a lot more drunk than him, a position I put myself in but he took advantage when I was vulnerable and I feel used and violated. I've had drunk sex before which was perfectly consensual and I've had drunk black out sex that I assumed was consensual. It's just a feeling this time so I have no proof of anything and maybe he was just a rude guy who regretted what happened but I just have such an uneasy feeling. I know that I cheated and guilt is part of this too but it is something else. Like I said, I'm going to a therapist for my issues and I never said I was blameless in this. I fully accept I got drunk but for those who say that I chose to stay out, I have no memory of making this decision so surely I was in a very intoxicated state and not thinking clearly. Nobody feels more annoyed with me than I do about staying out. I'd give anything to go back in time and go home with my friend but I can't.

jon1981 · 28-03-2018 10:11AM

confusedandworried wrote: »

Hi there,

I've had sex in the past where I was quite drunk and blacked out and I knew myself it was my own fault, but in this instance I feel like this guy took advantage, there was something different about this situation and I'm wondering what others think.

Sorry for such a long post, just feeling so dreadful about all of this

I'm not being rude but I guess what's different this time around was you being a relationship? you wanted to stay out with a load of lads having the craic drinking far beyond your capability and no doubt everyone was equally as drunk as you.

I've had hazy nights out in the past where I couldn't remember a thing and people the next day were telling me I was flying form and were astounded that I couldn't remember because I seemed fine at the time.

(I've learned not to drink as much on a night out any more)

Was it consensual? Who knows. But it's very possible you seemed fine at the time.

beefburrito · 28-03-2018 10:14AM

Drink's a curse, absolute curse.
It causes so much problems in society.

I don't drink myself, but if the Op is drinking too much and ending up being taken advantage of and getting into scenarios which isn't in their comfort zone, they could be doing without that....

Any guy or woman who'd take advantage of someone drunk needs a kick in the hole and put away,because they're a Fckn danger to society.

I gave up drinking in 03 I often woke up lying in puddles on road's, old farm house's and the odd beach.
I used to drink a lot alone and had no interest in getting laid or a big punchup outside the mobile chipper, I just sought oblivion....

Thankfully I wasn't rolled over washed away or done for trespassing.

I wish the OP luck and hope this is a wake up call.
It's not her fault, and her head's probably going overtime with anxiety and fear...

Wishing you well op

dellas1979 · 28-03-2018 10:49AM

This is what I hate about posts like this. Its beyond unclear to the OP. "I thinks and cant remembers" arent enough to make an allegation against someone else.

You are not sure what happened at all. YOU put yourself in a position where you cant remember. You put yourself at high risk. You cant remember clearly.

Noone should ever touch anyone, but youve really not thought about yourself or your safety in all of this, and it is something to explore (as I think you are doing) with a councellor.

You are relying on hazy memory. And not much else.

Its time people took responsibility for their own welfare, and not use drink as an excuse for making allegations.

never_mind · 28-03-2018 11:00AM

Hi OP,

first of all, you need to continue to engage with your therapist in relation to your drinking. While I know you pre-empted this in your OP, it is clear that now is the time to really reflect on how alcohol is affecting your life. I am not saying that you are an alcoholic but that you need to seriously cut down - you are too old (late 20s?) to be getting black outs - you should have left that habit in college. When your friend went home you should have had the sense to go on ahead then and there... I mean she left at 3AM what more was there to do? Were you looking for a party or just wanted to continue the bants with the lads?

In your title you ask is it your fault. I don't think any of us, without actually being there, will be able to blame you, the man you slept with, or both of you for what happened. I think it's unfair to try to open up a big discussion about rape culture in this thread and that should be left for AH. I think you need to create an action plan for self-care that will make you feel better... something like:

1. Engage further with your therapist about drinking
2. Start a a new activity such as yoga or running
3. Get your STD results and act on them should you be positive for one of them
4. Break up with your OH and realise that you need to focus on you right now and not on the drama that is involved with 'cheating'
5. Reach out to friends and family
6. Moderate your drinking signifcantly (e.g. '4 drinks tops on a night out)

You might want to really consider how you are going to move forward with this. I am not condoning what he did but you have the power to ruin this man's life. You don't know if he raped you, you don't know if you did something untoward to him, but you say you consented so I would leave it at that and just move on. A similar situation happened to me and I realised that it was just a non-issue and to bin it. It was down to my drinking and I put myself in a scenario.

The main thing here is to look after yourself. Have baths. Watch movies. Eat chocolate. Go for walks. Have a cosy and chilled out Easter x

Xterminator · 28-03-2018 02:18PM

Hi Op

Basically my gut feeling is that I was a lot more drunk than him

- this is certainly not clear. not sure how you can make that assessment. it is just as possible he was more drunk than you.

but he took advantage when I was vulnerable and I feel used and violated

For all you remember; you took the same advantage of him, as he took of you. What you have is remorse, and that still feels cr4p.

I've had drunk sex before which was perfectly consensual and I've had drunk black out sex that I assumed was consensual

.
worrying, because there is a pattern here. This is probably the most important thing you have posted so far.

It's just a feeling this time so I have no proof of anything and maybe he was just a rude guy who regretted what happened

he was rude and unpleasant to you. he is probably a nasty piece of work. not the kind of person you would soberly choose to take home!

but I just have such an uneasy feeling. I know that I cheated and guilt is part of this too but it is something else. -

Cheating, is the only thing you are sure that did happen. i suspect that that makes you feel guilty and if you (in your mind) accuse him of taking advantage then that lessens your guilt?

I hope you can just give yourself some love and stop beating yourself up. use this as a wake up call to address your risky behaviour. You deserve better than this, you really do.

dellas1979 · 28-03-2018 03:35PM

You are leaving yourself wide open to have bad things happen you. And then are even unsure if they have happened.

That's what I cant understand.

I love going out and (sometimes) getting tiddly, but I have a limit that I know and will stop (or drink water or food or whatever). I know this is not sometimes the case for people who drink till they blackout (so its either a learning curve to you for your alcohol tolerance or youve to come to terms with stopping drinking).

I just could/would never put myself in a situation where I didnt know what was going on, or that I couldnt (try) defend myself.

I have thought about this...and I'd be very fcuking pissed off at myself if I was comatose/cant remember in a bad situation, and couldnt fight back or stand up for myself. It also adds to the situation if police were called and I cannot remember what happened, if something happened. It lessens the impact of what someone did.

I just dont get it...

Are you allowed to walk down a dodgy street where a lot of crime happens? Yes. Should you walk down that street alone and have a higher risk of something happening to you?

Black out sex, my fault?

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