Black out sex, my fault?

LegacyUser

Hi there,

I'm a boards user but going anon for this. I'm in a relationship but on Saturday night I went out with a friend to a pub and we got very drunk, I fully admit this. She was staying with me and she wanted to go home at about 3am but I wanted to stay on as we'd been chatting to a group of lads. So she left in a taxi and went back.

I admit that every once in a while (maybe once a year) I get black out drunk and can't remember what happens. So from about midnight to 6am I only have a handful of flashbacks. I remember being in a taxi but I don't remember who I was with, I have a vague feeling it was one of the guys I was chatting to. My friend filled in some of the gaps for me, and I found some text messages from her on my phone, she text me at about 3.45 and I replied saying that we were in a taxi, I didn't specify who. Anyway she told me that me and this guy arrived back to the house, so it was just the one, I couldn't even remember if there was anyone else in the taxi with me. So the next thing I remember is coming to at about 6am. I don't know if I woke up but all of a sudden I can start remembering again.

This guy that I was chatting to the night before was fully dressed and about to leave. I was still drunk even at this stage so my conversation with him is hazy in parts but I remember that he was very angry and I got very upset. Partially because I was still drunk and the realisation that I'd cheated, and also because he was being so vicious. He said that we had sex but that I fell asleep during it and he said quite a few rude things about me, like he wished he hadn't come back with me and that I'd given him a terrible blow job. All in all he was just an arse.

So I was crying and as he left he said he was sure he'd see me posting about how much I regret this on boards. So I'm worried that he knows my username. I have no idea who he could be or if he is on boards but I guess I must have mentioned something about it. I have a vague memory of having an argument with him about using a condom, but I couldn't find one in the bin or anywhere else so I assume one wasn't used. Because he was so rude, I wonder if he continued to have sex with me once I fell asleep, and I don't know if he ''finished'' or not. I felt very sore on Sunday and yesterday, more than I'd usually feel after having sex so I don't know if maybe we were just drunk and a bit carried away or if he was rough with me.

I have a lot of bruises on my legs and my back is sore as well as my foot and my hip. What worries me more though is that my neck feels sore and I have a bruise near my wrist. I assume I probably fell over but I'm worried about what he could have done to me that I can't remember. I know it's completely my fault for getting so drunk and I take responsibility for that and for cheating. I also know that I did bring him back home with me and I assume that I consented to have sex with him. I don't know how drunk he was to be fair to him, but I don't think he was as drunk as me. To be honest I feel a bit like I was taken advantage of and I feel freaked out that I don't know what was done to me.

When I went downstairs the next day I found my passport and my garda ID out on the counter and I wondered if he'd had a look at them and why he'd do that. I have a vague memory of him asking me to confirm that I was over 18, which is a bit odd as I'm in my late 20s, but there's no context to the memory. I feel so overwhelmed with guilt about what I've done to my partner and I'm also worried about STIs and pregnancy. I'm going to take emergency contraception and I'll go and get an STI check too. I admitted to my partner what happened today. I wasn't sure if I should or if it was just relieving my guilt but I felt that it was right to tell the truth. I'm just wondering what do people think? By the way, I know that drinking like this isn't healthy and I am seeing a therapist for my issues, not just drink related.

I've had sex in the past where I was quite drunk and blacked out and I knew myself it was my own fault, but in this instance I feel like this guy took advantage, there was something different about this situation and I'm wondering what others think.

Sorry for such a long post, just feeling so dreadful about all of this

Airyfairy12

If I was you id speak to a rape crisis centre.
This isnt your fault, yes getting black out drunk was silly and bringing a strange man back home with you was irresponsible but that doesnt justify what he did. He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position. I think for most normal people when they encounter someone whose as intoxicated as you were, their reaction is to protect the drunk person, make sure they get home ok... not have sex with or harass them. It does to me sound like you were taken advantage of.

Dog walker 1234

You are in a horrible situation. I think rape is a possibility, only you can decide that. You are doing the right things - emergency contraception and STI clinic. Telling you partner is also good. I hope you have support and guidance to help you deal with this.

mada82

Worrying that rape is being mentioned. Everything sounds consensual in your story.

Pelvis

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position.

No, that's no clear at all.

What does your friend say OP. It sounds like she was up when you got home with this guy? Can she shed any light on what state you were in?

It's a sensitive subject. The fact that you were both in the pub till near 4am, I would assume you were both drinking all night?

LegacyUser

Hi there everyone,

OP here again. Thanks for your replies, I appreciate it. I didn't really think of contacting the rape crisis centre because I feel a bit silly doing so, I don't know how to feel. I feel like something is off and wrong about the whole situation, that's my gut, but I don't have any proof and I can't remember what happened. It could well have been consensual sex but I really don't know, I mean I fell asleep/passed out at one stage, according to the guy, so surely he realised how drunk I was. There are large parts of the night I don't remember like I said, but I know he was drinking, so he could have been drunk. Having said that though he was up and dressed and leaving at 6am and he seemed to be fine whereas I still felt drunk for several hours later. Maybe he was still drunk though, I can't be 100% sure. I asked my friend there if she remembered what condition I was in when I got back but she can't. She was quite drunk herself and all she can remember is that she was asleep so I was banging on the door to be let in, and she let us in and went to bed. She also remembers hearing us talking downstairs but nothing else.

ted1

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If I was you id speak to a rape crisis centre.
This isnt your fault, yes getting black out drunk was silly and bringing a strange man back home with you was irresponsible but that doesnt justify what he did. He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position. I think for most normal people when they encounter someone whose as intoxicated as you were, their reaction is to protect the drunk person, make sure they get home ok... not have sex with or harass them. It does to me sound like you were taken advantage of.

If they were both drinking, explain how he “clearly took advantage “

Sounds more like buyers remorse.

strandroad

ted1 wrote: »

If they were both drinking, explain how he “clearly took advantage “

Sounds more like buyers remorse.

One thing is that if she remembers she wanted a condom and he went without it's like a recent case which resulted in a three year jail term.

OP please call or visit Rape Crisis Centre, they will help you to put things in perspective. It might be a nasty but consensual encounter and still make you feel horrible if too rough, unsafe etc.

rainbowtrout

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If I was you id speak to a rape crisis centre.
This isnt your fault, yes getting black out drunk was silly and bringing a strange man back home with you was irresponsible but that doesnt justify what he did. He clearly took advantage of someone in a very vulnerable position. I think for most normal people when they encounter someone whose as intoxicated as you were, their reaction is to protect the drunk person, make sure they get home ok... not have sex with or harass them. It does to me sound like you were taken advantage of.

There's actually no proof of that. He could have given her the bruises, she might have got them from falling over. He might have asked her age to protect himself in case she was underage, which implies that consent was given.

She said he was drunk too, but she doesn't know how drunk and she doesn't really remember anything herself aside from his nasty comments the next morning.

Airyfairy12

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's actually no proof of that. He could have given her the bruises, she might have got them from falling over. He might have asked her age to protect himself in case she was underage, which implies that consent was given.

She said he was drunk too, but she doesn't know how drunk and she doesn't really remember anything herself aside from his nasty comments the next morning.

I didn't say anything about her bruises.

She remembers arguing with him about a condom yet he didnt use one.
She has pain and discomfort indicating he was very rough with her.
He may have been drunk but he remembered the night, enough to humiliate her and throw things she did and said in her face in an attempt to upset her. Not only can she not remember much but she woke up drunk, she was much more intoxiacted than he was. He had the upper hand in this situation and he abused that.

368100

Jeez, can remember next to nothing , there's an assumption by the OP that she consented and there's rape accusations!!

I've posted in another thread how destructive a false claim can be, it can follow you for life......not withstanding that genuine rape cases are as destructive to the victim.

Taken advantage of?...maybe, rape? Cop yourselves on.

rainbowtrout

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I didn't say anything about her bruises.

She remembers arguing with him about a condom yet he didnt use one.
She has pain and discomfort indicating he was very rough with her.
He may have been drunk but he remembered the night, enough to humiliate her and throw things she did and said in her face in an attempt to upset her. Not only can she not remember much but she woke up drunk, she was much more intoxiacted than he was. He had the upper hand in this situation and he abused that.

Actually she said:

I have a vague memory of having an argument with him about using a condom, but I couldn't find one in the bin or anywhere else so I assume one wasn't used

Look I'm not trying to defend him, he does sound like a nasty piece of work from his comments, but she doesn't really remember anything from the night at all from when she got back to the house.

Most of her post is stuff she surmises that might have happened but has no proof either way unfortunately.

splinter65

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I didn't say anything about her bruises.

She remembers arguing with him about a condom yet he didnt use one.
She has pain and discomfort indicating he was very rough with her.
He may have been drunk but he remembered the night, enough to humiliate her and throw things she did and said in her face in an attempt to upset her. Not only can she not remember much but she woke up drunk, she was much more intoxiacted than he was. He had the upper hand in this situation and he abused that.

Being a nasty boor is not a crime. Having the upper hand in a consensual sexual encounter is not a crime.
Reporting an encounter that you regret but you have no true memory of as rape is possibly a crime.

OwlsZat

I think a rape centre would be able to tell you if your injuries were likely related to the sex or not. That seems to be the only unknown.

We all make mistakes and you've told the truth. Turn the negative energy into positive improvement!

GingerLily

splinter65 wrote: »

Being a nasty boor is not a crime. Having the upper hand in a consensual sexual encounter is not a crime.

Having the upper hand in something supposedly consensual? That does not even make sense.

The OP doesn't sound like she wants to report a crime, she wants to understand how to cope with a nasty man who took advantage of her (or had the upper hand as you say) when she was legally too drunk to consent.

Airyfairy12

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Actually she said:





Look I'm not trying to defend him, he does sound like a nasty piece of work from his comments, but she doesn't really remember anything from the night at all from when she got back to the house.

Most of her post is stuff she surmises that might have happened but has no proof either way unfortunately.

Just to clear something up I didnt say he raped her, I said he took advantage. The rape centre deals with all sorts of issues and can offer support to the OP. Either way regardless of if it was rape or not it sounds like an awful, traumatising experience. - The rape crises centre will help her with this. OP will need to get herself some medical checks just incase. The rape crises centre will help her with this too and they may be able to tell her if her injuries are caused from rape.

I dont care how summarized it is. What she said can be strong indication that she was taken advantage of. She was way more intoxicated than he was and he was absolutely aware of that. The fact he recounted the night to upset her and the fact she has pain and discomfort confirms that he had the upper hand in the situation.
Also he doesnt sound like the type to be mindful of the condom being left lying around - I cant imagine he would have bothered to dispose of it.

Neyite

Mod:

Sad that I should even have to say this, but can you all please remember there's a woman who's upset at the other end of your message. I shouldn't have to remind you all to keep the replies on topic, civil and helpful for the OP.

And if you could be a little bit kind to someone having a sh!t few days, that would be great. I've deleted the post that failed to meet those standards.

blacklilly

GingerLily wrote: »

Having the upper hand in something supposedly consensual? That does not even make sense.

The OP doesn't sound like she wants to report a crime, she wants to understand how to cope with a nasty man who took advantage of her (or had the upper hand as you say) when she was legally too drunk to consent.

What happens in a situations where both parties are legally too drunk to consent?

What is the definitaion of being “legally too drunk”.

You know this man may have massively regretted sleeping with the OP and this may go someway to explain his comments the following morning.

Rape is serious and a claim of rape in a situation such as the OP describes needs to be very carefully considered. If the OP truly believes that she was raped then I hope she gets justice but it’s shocking how quickly rape is mentioned when the OP herself seems to confirm that sex was consensual. There is also a possibility that a condom was used but flushed down a toilet.

Jenneke87

Hey there,
I'm really sorry this has happend to you. It must be a terrible and frightening experience, not knowing what happend that night and unless your memory returns somehow you'll never know. I can imagine you're sick with worry right now, which is completely understandable.
I'm happy to read you've taken some steps to prevent this from happening again. You mentioned he may have some of your details..has he tried to contact you since the incident? 
I'd fully echo previous advise given and to go and talk to someone. I hope that physically your bruises and pain have subsided somewhat now and that mentally you can get over this anguish. I wish you all the best.

qwerty13

It sounds like both of you were very drunk, and that neither of you were much able to consent to anything. Drinking till approx 4am, you got a taxi, and had sex by 6am.

I think, from what you’ve said, that he could equally accuse you of rape. You were both high intoxicated idiots. I don’t know about him, but you said that you cheated (no judgement about that, do whatever you want to do). Is it possible though that this is feeding into your sense of not only regret, but that you believe that you wouldn’t have done it had he not allegedly ‘forced’ the situation?

If anything, I think the lesson from this is to not go home with a paralytic idiot - and also don’t be that paralytic idiot either, no matter how infrequent it is (once a year or not).

You might classify this as victim blaming. And I’m not saying that you completely *aren’t* a victim. To me though (a woman) it sounds like you got utterly trashed drunk, didn’t know what you were doing, and now regret it. If I’m entirely honest, you need to look at your drinking and behaviour. If you genuinely really truly think that he was way more together than you, and took complete advantage, that’s awful. If you were both really drunk and stupid, that’s a reflection on both of you. I don’t think anyone here can advise you which situation is the real one.

And I would have thought the norm is to flush a used condom away.

Malayalam

I do feel mercy for you so the following is not meant cruelly. But just so you can avoid future torment.
At some point in the proceedings you knew you were getting in too deep and carried on regardless. Like when your friend was going home at 3 am, and you could have gone with her - ''but I wanted to stay on as we'd been chatting to a group of lads.'' Note the word ''wanted''. This is the part of the story where your self-preservation and self-responsibilty should have kicked in. You know it too, deep down. You chose to be reckless. Recklessness is not a sin but you have to own it. I did that once too when I was very young and very naive and - yes, reckless! - and I paid a heavy price.

It was bad idea for you both, bad awkward roughshod sex between two inebriated bodies wherein one was recklessly limp and the other was recklessly hard, a regrettable happening, but consensual it appears, thus not rape.

You are an active part of all this. Calling rape will only postpone the day when you will have to meet yourself - not to mention it could destroy someone elses life when all they did was about the same as you. It would be best to use the experience to look very seriously at your drinking to black out point. That's really what is going on here. It will only keep on getting you into this kind of torment and trouble. Mind yourself.

nermal15

No one has suggested that the OP report this man to the police, so everyone getting worked up about ‘false claims’ are really jumping the gun. Just because someone feels used, confused about a sexual experience and wants to call the Rape Crisis Centre for advice and support does not mean they are falsely accusing someone of anything. No matter what, this was a distressing experience for the OP and she deserves support and understanding.


OP, I hope you find someone unbiased to talk to about this who will give you some help. You are allowed to feel guilty for your part in what happened as well as feeling upset with how you were treated. Take care of yourself.

Side note: Condoms should not be flushed down the toilet.

mada82

Malayalam wrote: »

I do feel mercy for you so the following is not meant cruelly. But just so you can avoid future torment.
At some point in the proceedings you knew you were getting in too deep and carried on regardless. Like when your friend was going home at 3 am, and you could have gone with her - ''but I wanted to stay on as we'd been chatting to a group of lads.'' Note the word ''wanted''. This is the part of the story where your self-preservation and self-responsibilty should have kicked in. You know it too, deep down. You chose to be reckless. Recklessness is not a sin but you have to own it. I did that once too when I was very young and very naive and - yes, reckless! - and I paid a heavy price.

It was bad idea for you both, bad awkward roughshod sex between two inebriated bodies wherein one was recklessly limp and the other was recklessly hard, a regrettable happening, but consensual it appears, thus not rape.

You are an active part of all this. Calling rape will only postpone the day when you will have to meet yourself - not to mention it could destroy someone elses life when all they did was about the same as you. It would be best to use the experience to look very seriously at your drinking to black out point. That's really what is going on here. It will only keep on getting you into this kind of torment and trouble. Mind yourself.

Spot on.

qwerty13

Not trying to make you feel awful, but you chose to stay out ‘chatting to a group of lads’ after your friend left, you chose to bring this guy home with you, you chose to bang on the door until your friend let you in, and you chose to cheat.

Look, do whatever you want like, but if the guy was anywhere near as drunk as you say you were, why are you choosing to blame him? However, if you were on an entirely different level of inebriation to him, well that’s not good.

It seems like you don’t really know what, how or why stuff happened - but yet you’ve decided that it’s definitely his fault. Maybe you are right in that, I wasn’t there, I don’t know. I think it’s worth at least considering that there was a pair of you in it, and you had very drunk and crappy sex - and that you both regretted it pretty much straight away afterwards.

LegacyUser

Hi op here

Just to clear some things up. I have no intention to go to the guards about this. Like I said I can't remember what happened so I can't make any kind of claim. I wouldn't do it to him and I wouldn't put myself through it unless I had proof and I don't.


As for the condom, yes he could have flushed it down the toilet but I also looked for the wrapper and found none in the bedroom or in the bin. He could have taken it with him but I don't see why he would have.

Basically my gut feeling is that I was a lot more drunk than him, a position I put myself in but he took advantage when I was vulnerable and I feel used and violated. I've had drunk sex before which was perfectly consensual and I've had drunk black out sex that I assumed was consensual. It's just a feeling this time so I have no proof of anything and maybe he was just a rude guy who regretted what happened but I just have such an uneasy feeling. I know that I cheated and guilt is part of this too but it is something else. Like I said, I'm going to a therapist for my issues and I never said I was blameless in this. I fully accept I got drunk but for those who say that I chose to stay out, I have no memory of making this decision so surely I was in a very intoxicated state and not thinking clearly. Nobody feels more annoyed with me than I do about staying out. I'd give anything to go back in time and go home with my friend but I can't.

jon1981

confusedandworried wrote: »

Hi there,


I've had sex in the past where I was quite drunk and blacked out and I knew myself it was my own fault, but in this instance I feel like this guy took advantage, there was something different about this situation and I'm wondering what others think.

Sorry for such a long post, just feeling so dreadful about all of this

I'm not being rude but I guess what's different this time around was you being a relationship? you wanted to stay out with a load of lads having the craic drinking far beyond your capability and no doubt everyone was equally as drunk as you.


I've had hazy nights out in the past where I couldn't remember a thing and people the next day were telling me I was flying form and were astounded that I couldn't remember because I seemed fine at the time.

(I've learned not to drink as much on a night out any more)

Was it consensual? Who knows. But it's very possible you seemed fine at the time.

beefburrito

Drink's a curse, absolute curse.
It causes so much problems in society.

I don't drink myself, but if the Op is drinking too much and ending up being taken advantage of and getting into scenarios which isn't in their comfort zone, they could be doing without that....

Any guy or woman who'd take advantage of someone drunk needs a kick in the hole and put away,because they're a Fckn danger to society.

I gave up drinking in 03 I often woke up lying in puddles on road's, old farm house's and the odd beach.
I used to drink a lot alone and had no interest in getting laid or a big punchup outside the mobile chipper, I just sought oblivion....

Thankfully I wasn't rolled over washed away or done for trespassing.

I wish the OP luck and hope this is a wake up call.
It's not her fault, and her head's probably going overtime with anxiety and fear...

Wishing you well op

dellas1979

This is what I hate about posts like this. Its beyond unclear to the OP. "I thinks and cant remembers" arent enough to make an allegation against someone else.

You are not sure what happened at all. YOU put yourself in a position where you cant remember. You put yourself at high risk. You cant remember clearly.

Noone should ever touch anyone, but youve really not thought about yourself or your safety in all of this, and it is something to explore (as I think you are doing) with a councellor.

You are relying on hazy memory. And not much else.

Its time people took responsibility for their own welfare, and not use drink as an excuse for making allegations.

never_mind

Hi OP,

first of all, you need to continue to engage with your therapist in relation to your drinking. While I know you pre-empted this in your OP, it is clear that now is the time to really reflect on how alcohol is affecting your life. I am not saying that you are an alcoholic but that you need to seriously cut down - you are too old (late 20s?) to be getting black outs - you should have left that habit in college. When your friend went home you should have had the sense to go on ahead then and there... I mean she left at 3AM what more was there to do? Were you looking for a party or just wanted to continue the bants with the lads?

In your title you ask is it your fault. I don't think any of us, without actually being there, will be able to blame you, the man you slept with, or both of you for what happened. I think it's unfair to try to open up a big discussion about rape culture in this thread and that should be left for AH. I think you need to create an action plan for self-care that will make you feel better... something like:

1. Engage further with your therapist about drinking
2. Start a a new activity such as yoga or running
3. Get your STD results and act on them should you be positive for one of them
4. Break up with your OH and realise that you need to focus on you right now and not on the drama that is involved with 'cheating'
5. Reach out to friends and family
6. Moderate your drinking signifcantly (e.g. '4 drinks tops on a night out)

You might want to really consider how you are going to move forward with this. I am not condoning what he did but you have the power to ruin this man's life. You don't know if he raped you, you don't know if you did something untoward to him, but you say you consented so I would leave it at that and just move on. A similar situation happened to me and I realised that it was just a non-issue and to bin it. It was down to my drinking and I put myself in a scenario.

The main thing here is to look after yourself. Have baths. Watch movies. Eat chocolate. Go for walks. Have a cosy and chilled out Easter x

Xterminator

Hi Op

Basically my gut feeling is that I was a lot more drunk than him

- this is certainly not clear. not sure how you can make that assessment. it is just as possible he was more drunk than you.

but he took advantage when I was vulnerable and I feel used and violated

For all you remember; you took the same advantage of him, as he took of you. What you have is remorse, and that still feels cr4p.

I've had drunk sex before which was perfectly consensual and I've had drunk black out sex that I assumed was consensual

.
worrying, because there is a pattern here. This is probably the most important thing you have posted so far.

It's just a feeling this time so I have no proof of anything and maybe he was just a rude guy who regretted what happened

he was rude and unpleasant to you. he is probably a nasty piece of work. not the kind of person you would soberly choose to take home!

but I just have such an uneasy feeling. I know that I cheated and guilt is part of this too but it is something else. -

Cheating, is the only thing you are sure that did happen. i suspect that that makes you feel guilty and if you (in your mind) accuse him of taking advantage then that lessens your guilt?

I hope you can just give yourself some love and stop beating yourself up. use this as a wake up call to address your risky behaviour. You deserve better than this, you really do.

dellas1979

You are leaving yourself wide open to have bad things happen you. And then are even unsure if they have happened.

That's what I cant understand.

I love going out and (sometimes) getting tiddly, but I have a limit that I know and will stop (or drink water or food or whatever). I know this is not sometimes the case for people who drink till they blackout (so its either a learning curve to you for your alcohol tolerance or youve to come to terms with stopping drinking).

I just could/would never put myself in a situation where I didnt know what was going on, or that I couldnt (try) defend myself.

I have thought about this...and I'd be very fcuking pissed off at myself if I was comatose/cant remember in a bad situation, and couldnt fight back or stand up for myself. It also adds to the situation if police were called and I cannot remember what happened, if something happened. It lessens the impact of what someone did.

I just dont get it...

Are you allowed to walk down a dodgy street where a lot of crime happens? Yes. Should you walk down that street alone and have a higher risk of something happening to you?

Rezident

mada82 wrote: »

Worrying that rape is being mentioned. Everything sounds consensual in your story.

Indeed, this is how it happens. Reminds me of a well known psychologist who gave a similar example of a patient and he explained how if he was right wing he would have told her she behaved like a courtesan and it was basically her own fault, whereas if he was left wing he would have told her she was raped and encouraged her to take legal action. Scary how the same situation can be framed so differently by people with an agenda. Instead however, he just did his job properly and helped her.

OP- horrendous situation but you seem to be dealing with the aftermath very sensibly. I don't understand why he was angry - do you have any idea why he was angry? You never know with strangers.

gaynorvader

I think this is the symptom of the actual problem which is you aren't controlling your alcohol intake. Maybe try drastically cutting back and limiting yourself to a moderate amount, say one glass per hour or something similar? If you find you can't do this, and that once you have one in you you NEED to keep drinking, you are probably an alcoholic and I encourage you to seek help with it.

No judgement, my father is an alcoholic and was never abusive or irresponsible or anything you'd associate with alcoholism, but he could not NOT drink. He could give it up for lent or a fixed period of time like that, but once he started he basically wouldn't stop til the pub closed. He's been much happier in himself since he gave it up over 10 years ago, but he still says if he had a drink, he'd be right back where he was with it.

LegacyUser

Hello again, OP here,

With regards to my drinking, I don't drink that often, probably once a month or less, and I can have one or two drinks and leave it. However, I do use alcohol as a social lubricant and I can get very very drunk in a social setting to the point of blacking out, it used to be much worse in my teens and early twenties but now it happens about once a year, probably because I don't go out that much. I know I definitely need to watch what I drink, I'm thinking of giving myself a limit of 6 drinks on a night out to ensure something like this (or worse) doesn't happen to me again. I am very vulnerable when I drink like that because it's difficult to get me to go home and I do tend to go off with strangers without worrying about the consequences. However, I hardly go out and so it's not really the biggest issue in my life, I have a lot more going on, drinking to excess every once in a while is just a symptom of other problems. I binge eat, basically anything I like or enjoy I have difficulty regulating. I didn't want to reveal too much about myself but I have a life-threatening illness and my life expectancy is late 30s, so I have a lot on my plate with being chronically ill.

As for people saying that we could both have been equally as drunk or him even more so, well to be honest I doubt it. I can't rule it out but last I can remember he was drinking beer and I was drinking vodkas (not smart, I know) but even if he switched to spirits at some stage, he still wouldn't have been drinking spirits all night. I also didn't eat much that day, a couple of slices of toast for breakfast and for lunch, and nothing else (also not smart). So he most likely ate more than me too. Of course maybe he didn't eat for the entire day, I can't say anything with 100% certainty. However, he was up and dressed and had his wits about him at 6am to go to leave, when I came to and hadn't a clue what was going on or what had happened the night before. He had to fill me in on the fact that we had sex and I gave him a blow job, apparently, and if I believe what he says, I also fell asleep (or passed out) during sex. So he was sober enough to remember the night's events and I wasn't and he was also sober enough to stay awake for sex and I clearly wasn't. If my flashback of him asking for proof of my age is correct then he was far more sober than I was, I doubt I could have had such a clear thought. He was obviously trying to protect himself and I clearly wasn't trying to protect myself, though I suppose from my flashback it does seem that I was adamant about a condom, though there is no evidence that he used one and in my memory we were arguing about it.

As for the person who asked why he was so angry. Honestly I couldn't tell you. My friend told me that he said he had a girlfriend, so maybe he was angry with himself for cheating, maybe I bruised his ego by falling asleep during sex so he lashed out, maybe I was a massive pain in the arse. I can be very annoying when I get that drunk and I can sometimes get depressed or upset so who knows. He did say that he warned me that he was an asshole, great get out of jail clause there (not).

Legally speaking, if a woman is too intoxicated she can't consent. It doesn't apply to men even if they are just as intoxicated. Now, personally I don't think I agree with that law, I think if a man and a woman are just as drunk as each other and they have sex, well in my opinion you can't really say you didn't consent if the poor fella was as pissed as you. However, if a woman is a lot more drunk than a man and they have sex and he's aware that he's taking advantage, well legally speaking that's non-consensual sex, that's rape. Like I said, I can't say with 100% certainty that he wasn't as drunk as me, but I'd highly doubt it. Anyway, I'm not going to the guards about this so it doesn't matter either way.

Bambi985

Hi OP,

That's a lot you've got going on. Sorry to hear about your illness. Have you had therapy to cope with that or have you received any emotional support at all? I think that may be at the crux of your drinking and the compulsive behaviour with food etc.

I know you say drinking like this once a year doesn't constitute a problem, but I don't agree with that at all. You are drinking enough to lose complete control of your faculties and putting your life in danger. What happened to you is just tipping the iceberg of the level of risk you're attracting by blacking out and walking off with strangers - next time it could be a more violent assault, it could be death. It's unclear to me exactly how to classify what happened to you as the details are murky and you have absolutely no memory, but I've been as drunk as this and I've landed in this kind of situation before and it scared me enough into never, ever leaving myself that drunk and vulnerable again and never opting for casual sex with a stranger I met that night because it's not my style anyway. I simply don't do either of those things anymore.

Recent events will also show you how difficult it is to move forward legally when a crime has actually been committed in these circumstances and these are events that can emotionally scar you for life.

My advice would be to see a counsellor to deal with the emotional fallout and to address your compulsive drinking and eating as a matter of priority.

gaynorvader

confusedandworried wrote: »

Hello again, OP here,

...

Cool, doesn't sound like you're an alcoholic, but you still have a problem with your approach to alcohol. I think your idea of limiting your drinks is a good one and eating before drinking an even better one!

I'm not sure, and I don't think anyone other than the angry man can be on whether he did anything wrong or was too impaired to notice how drunk you were. As to why you feel yucky about this particular encounter. It could be that he was mad when he was leaving, criticised the sex, didn't seem very drunk to you, be mixed in with the guilt you feel, something else or some or all of the above.

I think I'd be marking it down mentally as a life lesson and watching my drinking going forward as you said.

jon1981

OP it sounds like you're (with the greatest respect) a liability to yourself and looking to place blame.

Drunkenness can't be proven so it's kind of neither here nor there who was more drunk and you do have a responsibility to yourself which you are ignoring, you have a history of this carry on. He may not have been aware he was taking advantage! You can't even remember! You might have given a signal of consent at the time, but who knows, you can't remember.

Also what kind of friend lets you get into this situation? Unless you're extremely difficult to reason with once you've gone past a certain stage of drunkenness. Take the advice of people from here and seek counselling/support. You have alot going on and this is just a symptom of much deeper issues it seems.

Isshelying

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I didn't say anything about her bruises.

She remembers arguing with him about a condom yet he didnt use one.
She has pain and discomfort indicating he was very rough with her.
He may have been drunk but he remembered the night, enough to humiliate her and throw things she did and said in her face in an attempt to upset her. Not only can she not remember much but she woke up drunk, she was much more intoxiacted than he was. He had the upper hand in this situation and he abused that.

No, she thinks he didnt use one. She cant remember one way or the other. Theres no evidence to say how drunk he was or that she didnt consent yet people are straight away jumping to accusations of rape.

On the face of it, the OP got blackout drunk, cheated on her partner and wants to use a get out clause rather than accept responsibility

GingerLily

He probably lashed out at your because he is angry at himself for doing something so scummy (when you have to check someone's ID, it's probably a sign that you shouldn't be there). He took advantage of you but didn't get what he wanted from the encounter and now he has to feel the guilt of cheating and using someone else.

You are right to feel mad OP, you need to protect yourself in future, there are a lot of nasty people out there.

jon1981

Being nasty does not equal breaking the law. Let's make that distinction

GingerLily

jon1981 wrote: »

Being nasty does not equal breaking the law. Let's make that distinction

He may have broken the law, but thats not what the OP wants to get advice on, so can you keep your posts on helping the OP, she's stated she isn't reporting a few times now.

jon1981

GingerLily wrote: »

He may have broken the law, but thats not what the OP wants to get advice on, so can you keep your posts on helping the OP, she's stated she isn't reporting a few times now.

You nor I are qualified to help the OP. The only advice the OP needs is to see a professional to help her understand the root cause of her behaviour and put in place corrective actions. There is more at play here than this once off incident.

GingerLily

jon1981 wrote: »

GingerLily wrote: »

He may have broken the law, but thats not what the OP wants to get advice on, so can you keep your posts on helping the OP, she's stated she isn't reporting a few times now.

You nor I are qualified to help the OP. The only advice the OP needs is to see a professional to help her understand the root cause of her behaviour and put in place corrective actions. There is more at play here than this once off incident.

This is an advice forum, where people come for advice, ask mods to close the thread if you feel that they cannot receive advice from unqualified persons.

You need to take your agenda away from PI

jon1981

GingerLily wrote: »

The OP doesn't sound like she wants to report a crime, she wants to understand how to cope with a nasty man who took advantage of her

I have an agenda? Your bias was there from the start.

To the OP, take a break from drinking. See a professional how can help you understand and deal with the underlying issues.

LegacyUser

OP here,

Thanks for the replies, the supportive and not so supportive. I do feel like everyone's heart is in the right place anyway. Let me expand a little bit, I am seeing a therapist for a variety of issues, and I have been doing so for the last three years and on and off since my early teens. Do I seem like a liability? Yeah, I guess I do. However, I had a breakdown in my early teens and spent those years getting black out drunk and trying to kill myself. As far as I'm concerned, I've come a long long way. Can I still be a bit self-destructive every once in a while? Yeah, obviously I can as this incidence shows. However, it's bad enough when I'm destroying myself, I don't need others hopping on the bandwagon, like this guy, I can do a good enough job of beating myself up, thanks. I know I have put myself in dangerous positions in the past, and I know I need to be more careful, and I accept responsibility for that. However, I think the guy that treated me like a piece of crap shouldn't have done so, and just because I put myself in the position of being drunk and very vulnerable doesn't mean he needed to take advantage.

Malayalam

confusedandworried wrote: »

Hello again, OP here,

I do use alcohol as a social lubricant

I can get very very drunk in a social setting to the point of blacking out,

I know I definitely need to watch what I drink

I am very vulnerable when I drink like that because it's difficult to get me to go home

I do tend to go off with strangers without worrying about the consequences.

I was drinking vodkas (not smart, I know)

I also didn't eat much that day(also not smart).

I can't say anything with 100% certainty.

I doubt I could have had such a clear thought.

I clearly wasn't trying to protect myself

I can't say with 100% certainty that he wasn't as drunk as me.

I'm not going to go back into the rape / not rape issue, though at the latter end of your comment here, you are clearly angling that it was rape. Rape is a word being thrown around a lot these days, and I find that a bit worrisome, as to be a rapist is to be a vile, evil, malevolent human being, and it is no casual accusation.


However, in your title of your post you ask ''My fault?''. Go back to that fundamental question. Why are you asking it? What is your intention? I mean from a deeper psychological point of view. What narrative are you trying to achieve? Is this narrative helpful, truthful, useful?

If you read your own words - the words I have taken from your longer comment - you clearly can see that you know that you have to accept your portion of the ''fault'' in this encounter. It is not 100% your fault, it is not 100% his fault, but you own your portion of the fault. This is not to be cruel, this is something we all have to do, awkward, and embarrassing and ugly as it sometimes is to see ourselves. As a young girl I was brutally assaulted by a complete stranger on a beach in a foreign country - a life or death situation - and obviously it was the attackers decision to leap upon me and drag me away. But I had been utterly foolish, drinking a little too much and walking home completely alone in the dark in a lonely, unknown place. It is not the same as I had not put myself into an intimate place with him, but I never ever did that again. That is, I never drank too much, or left myself vulnerable and alone.

If you don't own your portion, you will do this again. So, mind yourself.

jon1981

Malayalam wrote: »

However, in your title of your post you ask ''My fault?''. Go back to that fundamental question. Why are you asking it? What is your intention? I mean from a deeper psychological point of view. What narrative are you trying to achieve? Is this narrative helpful, truthful, useful?

Respecting how open the OP has been. The only argument she remembers having is over the use of a condom, not whether she wanted to have sex.

Malayalam

jon1981 wrote: »

Respecting how open the OP has been. The only argument she remembers having is over the use of a condom, not whether she wanted to have sex.

I don't understand the content of this comment.

My intention really is to offer some advice for the OP going forward. One of the worst things people do is hook themselves into a victim narrative and fail to learn self-reliance, self-responsibility, etc. Sure, it works, maybe I was raped, it will hold together for a percentage of the listeners, it will not be ''my fault''. And so on. It can form a context or a box for holding the experience. But in the long run how will that help the OP, when it is clearly as a result of excess drinking that she is leaving herself vulnerable to what could probably be best called opportunistic sexual partners. It is better to learn and arm onself with the wisdom gained from experience, rather than to obfuscate. Just my opinion. I was not in any way disrespecting the OP.

Emme

OP I am sorry this happened to you. It sounds like he took advantage. Even if it wasn't rape talking to the RCC would be no harm and they might point you in the direction of counselling.

In an ideal world people would not have sex without consent. It is not an ideal world. Women are (mostly) the weaker sex. In a world like this, like it or not, it is our responsiblity to ensure that we do not let ourselves be put into vulnerable positions. If we do get raped and report it there is a chance we will not be believed and if it goes to court there is a chance the rapist will not be convicted and we will be called liars.

I am a bit older than most here and I remember more innocent times when some men might try to push things but most seemed happy to take no for an answer. The only porn available was in imported magazines. We had less money so couldn't afford to drink as much.

The women in my family gave me advice which seemed extreme at the time - don't wear very revealing clothes, don't leave your group of friends at the end of the night unless you are getting into a taxi home. Don't chase a man, don't take drinks from strange men, don't get drunk, don't let men do anything beyond kissing and don't let them put their hands inside your clothes. Extreme advice but following some of it, especially the drink related advice might help women to protect themselves.

Life is not fair, men are usually stronger than women and porn has led some men to believe that the acts portrayed are normal and all women's bodies should be hairless and compact like that of porn actors. People seem to drink more now and that can have consequences.

Recent events has shown that the world is still quite misogynistic and unfair as it is, women have to be on their guard.

I would advise the OP not to drink as much on nights out and to be aware of what is going on all the time. If you want to take somebody home be aware that it can go wrong. Use condoms when having unprotected sex unless you are in a committed relationship.

Malayalam

Emme wrote: »

OP I am sorry this happened to you. It sounds like he took advantage. Even if it wasn't rape talking to the RCC would be no harm and they might point you in the direction of counselling.

In an ideal world people would not have sex without consent. It is not an ideal world. Women are (mostly) the weaker sex. In a world like this, like it or not, it is our responsiblity to ensure that we do not let ourselves be put into vulnerable positions. If we do get raped and report it there is a chance we will not be believed and if it goes to court there is a chance the rapist will not be convicted and we will be called liars.

I am a bit older than most here and I remember more innocent times when some men might try to push things but most seemed happy to take no for an answer. The only porn available was in imported magazines. We had less money so couldn't afford to drink as much.

The women in my family gave me advice which seemed extreme at the time - don't wear very revealing clothes, don't leave your group of friends at the end of the night unless you are getting into a taxi home. Don't chase a man, don't take drinks from strange men, don't get drunk, don't let men do anything beyond kissing and don't let them put their hands inside your clothes. Extreme advice but following some of it, especially the drink related advice might help women to protect themselves.

Life is not fair, men are usually stronger than women and porn has led some men to believe that the acts portrayed are normal and all women's bodies should be hairless and compact like that of porn actors. People seem to drink more now and that can have consequences.

Recent events has shown that the world is still quite misogynistic and unfair as it is, women have to be on their guard.

I would advise the OP not to drink as much on nights out and to be aware of what is going on all the time. If you want to take somebody home be aware that it can go wrong. Use condoms when having unprotected sex unless you are in a committed relationship.

I am somewhat older too and remember all that advice. It should perhaps be revived. Some of the younger generation seem to think that every eventuality can be legislated for, that rights are there to be protected disregarding responsibilities, and that all aspects of biology can be shoe-horned within the remit of the all-pervading state. It is unfortunate, as such would essentially generate an authoritarian dystopia - maybe people would have to apply for permission to have sex and have digital records of all erotic interaction so that Big Brother could keep the animal appropriately on a leash. Because that is the root issue - we are humans with mighty brains (and, I believe, souls) but we are also creatures with animal instincts. We have to wise up and be aware in the jungle.

Pelvis

Emme wrote: »

OP I am sorry this happened to you. It sounds like he took advantage. Even if it wasn't rape talking to the RCC would be no harm and they might point you in the direction of counselling.

In an ideal world people would not have sex without consent. It is not an ideal world. Women are (mostly) the weaker sex. In a world like this, like it or not, it is our responsiblity to ensure that we do not let ourselves be put into vulnerable positions. If we do get raped and report it there is a chance we will not be believed and if it goes to court there is a chance the rapist will not be convicted and we will be called liars.

I am a bit older than most here and I remember more innocent times when some men might try to push things but most seemed happy to take no for an answer. The only porn available was in imported magazines. We had less money so couldn't afford to drink as much.

The women in my family gave me advice which seemed extreme at the time - don't wear very revealing clothes, don't leave your group of friends at the end of the night unless you are getting into a taxi home. Don't chase a man, don't take drinks from strange men, don't get drunk, don't let men do anything beyond kissing and don't let them put their hands inside your clothes. Extreme advice but following some of it, especially the drink related advice might help women to protect themselves.

Life is not fair, men are usually stronger than women and porn has led some men to believe that the acts portrayed are normal and all women's bodies should be hairless and compact like that of porn actors. People seem to drink more now and that can have consequences.

Recent events has shown that the world is still quite misogynistic and unfair as it is, women have to be on their guard.

I would advise the OP not to drink as much on nights out and to be aware of what is going on all the time. If you want to take somebody home be aware that it can go wrong. Use condoms when having unprotected sex unless you are in a committed relationship.

Blaming porn and women wearing revealing clothes...

Yes, you are from a different time.