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Self driving buses, trains, trucks etc

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    There was a phantastic experiment in Germany in the 70's, the Cabinentaxi.
    It would have been a fully automated public transport system where you would go to the station, enter your destination and a small cabin would bring you there without stopping.<snip>
    If find it deeply sad that this genius idea never took off.
    calm the jets, Deutsche Bahn announced just yesterday that a road based small autonomous bus/ taxi will be trialled this winter to link a rail station and a nearby town in Bavaria.
    Just like above in the 1970s, you specify where you need to go and it brings you there! But without the limitations of tracks.

    It was being tested since last year at a business park in Berlin and is now ready to go on the public roads.
    http://www.deutschebahn.com/en/Digitalization/Autonomous_driving.html

    image-1085789-860_poster_16x9-jsfl-1085789.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭brokenarms


    I can just imagine what would happen to a self driving 27 bus in Jobstown.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    brokenarms wrote: »
    I can just imagine what would happen to a self driving 27 bus in Jobstown.

    Would it self-destruct?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭MGWR


    Don't know about the rest of you, but I am looking forward to seeing driverless buses, trains, taxis and luas

    It's really not as far away as people think
    Any particular reason why? What's the appeal?

    Those are vehicles I'd never get in, if they don't have a backup driver. The GIGO principle still stands. I've never gotten on London's Docklands system and don't ever plan to. Road vehicles are an absolute no-no.

    Besides, automated trains have been around since the 1960s. PATCO in the USA (Philadelphia) and London's Victoria Line are examples. I prefer the ones that still have a driver that can take over. And of course, most planes cruise on autopilot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    MGWR wrote: »
    Any particular reason why? What's the appeal?

    Those are vehicles I'd never get in, if they don't have a backup driver. The GIGO principle still stands. I've never gotten on London's Docklands system and don't ever plan to. Road vehicles are an absolute no-no.

    Besides, automated trains have been around since the 1960s. PATCO in the USA (Philadelphia) and London's Victoria Line are examples. I prefer the ones that still have a driver that can take over. And of course, most planes cruise on autopilot.

    +1

    The whole concept of driverless trains/buses etc. is driven by a penny pinching mentality where employees are seen as a liability rather than an asset. CIE are going to love the idea. If only we could have robots managing the company we would be onto something! :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭plodder


    otoh, driverless taxis could be a consumer's dream. Some people enjoy the chat of course. So, maybe there will be some automation there too

    "Hey Alexa, what did you think of the game last night ....?"


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    plodder wrote: »
    otoh, driverless taxis could be a consumer's dream. Some people enjoy the chat of course. So, maybe there will be some automation there too

    "Hey Alexa, what did you think of the game last night ....?"

    Not to mention that a driverless taxi programmed by a 5-year-old would probably follow the rules of the road better than a human one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    +1

    The whole concept of driverless trains/buses etc. is driven by a penny pinching mentality where employees are seen as a liability rather than an asset. CIE are going to love the idea. If only we could have robots managing the company we would be onto something! :D

    Or by people who see the millions of lost hours on the commute, the absolute carnage on the road daily, the waste of having private cars doing nothing 95% of the time and the huge efficiencies to be gained from having a networked transport infrastructure:p


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    possibly belongs more in a general 'future of cars' thread; a little wishful thinking here i guess:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/23/owning-car-thing-of-the-past-cities-utopian-vision?CMP=fb_gu


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I'm not sure if it is wishful thinking. Improvements in combustion-driven vehicles have been incremental for practically all of the time they've been around. The current version of a given vehicle offering a tiny, if even noticeable change over the last. It's only over longer timescales of 20-30 years that the sum of these changes becomes obvious.

    So traditionally we assume that change comes slowly where vehicles are concerned. New safety features take decades to become ubiquitous, upgrades like tape to cd to mp3 to bluetooth are long, drawn-out affairs. The majority of vehicles on the road at present probably still have CD players. Because there's no major value in changing vehicle just to get a new stereo or spending €200 on a new stereo for an old car.

    But that doesn't mean change is always going to be slow. Mobile phones offer the perfect example where the entire model can shift drastically inside of a decade. Indeed, the birth of the automobile industry was a similar seismic shift. In the US, vehicle ownership rates went from ~5% to 50% in about 2 decades. That's in a world with no satellites, internet or even any real commercial air traffic.

    Likewise, autonomous vehicles and the prioritisation of public transport in cities, has the potential to completely rewrite the landscape of transportation. Could you imagine if the number of households with no permanent vehicle went from 15.2% to 50% by 2030? 2030 sounds like a long time away, but it's not really. If autonomous vehicles land with the same bang we saw the smartphone hit, and/or cities started completely locking out private vehicles in favour of public transport, we could easily see a shift that large in a small timeframe.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    possibly belongs more in a general 'future of cars' thread; a little wishful thinking here i guess:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/23/owning-car-thing-of-the-past-cities-utopian-vision?CMP=fb_gu

    You can already see it very clearly in Manhattan. Most people there, despite their wealth, don't own a car. Walk, subway and the new big one Uber Pool (sharing a "taxi" with other people along the way).

    Younger people there really have no interest in owning a car, just too much trouble and cost. Much easier to pull your phone out of you pocket, press a button and jump in the back of the black SUV that pulls up 2 minutes later.

    Singapore has just announced today that they will not allow any new cars be bought or introduced from next February. You can replace an existing car, but if you don't already have one, then you simply can't buy one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    bk wrote: »
    Singapore has just announced today that they will not allow any new cars be bought or introduced from next February. You can replace an existing car, but if you don't already have one, then you simply can't buy one.

    Probably won't make much difference seeing as it costs $40k to get a car license


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭I love Sean nos


    eeguy wrote: »
    the waste of having private cars doing nothing 95% of the time
    That'll still exist. Might drop a bit as commuting journeys double, but for it to truly go away, private car ownership would have to end.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Uber and Volvo strike deal for 24,000 self-drive cars

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42055841

    Putting aside the issues Uber has with running in Ireland and other locations, things are moving forward with the development of the autonomous fleet.

    Next up, buses (here's hoping)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy



    Wow, it'll be interesting to see what happened here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko



    I wonder if the other 100 road deaths caused by motorists in the USA on that particular day will get anything like the same level of coverage and analysis?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Seems like the lady crossed the street away from the pedestrian crossing. A tragic accident that can happen with any type of vehicle.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I wonder if the other 100 road deaths caused by motorists in the USA on that particular day will get anything like the same level of coverage and analysis?
    no, because they're not historic like this. but you knew that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    While there are still a lot of flaws that need to be ironed out before mainstreaming autonomous vehicles, I am still 100% in favor of it given the benefits it will bring.

    It is clear from all of those against this idea that there is a vested interest in blocking the introduction of autonomous vehicles.

    Some Safety Benefits (assuming it isn't completely sentient):
    • No breaking red lights
    • Driving the correct direction assigned to the road
    • No road rage
    Some Social Benefits:
    • Being able to go for a night out with some friends in a previously inaccessible region and having a driver-less vehicle bring you home at next to no cost.
    • As an unlicensed driver, you could still have a driver-less car bring you to work without the worry of v-shaped commutes from the public transport alternative.
    • Elderly people with compromised mobility or vision would get back their independence as a result of driver-less vehicle.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    They were saying back in 2016 that self driving vehicles be common by 2020 I have yet to see one, it's now 2018. So I don't think their on for their target.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Knowing the compo culture if self driving cars ever make an appearance here people will be trying to walk into them in order to claim and get compo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    They were saying back in 2016 that self driving vehicles be common by 2020 I have yet to see one, it's now 2018. So I don't think their on for their target.

    Well there's a few thousand on the go in the US.

    Still 2 years to go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    eeguy wrote: »
    Still 2 years to go.

    21.5 months actually


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    21.5 months actually

    Well Uber bought 24000 cars from Volvo this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Seems like the lady crossed the street away from the pedestrian crossing. A tragic accident that can happen with any type of vehicle.
    she apparently walked out of the shadows straight in front of the car which didnt leave enough time to brake "even" if the car was driven by a human (with a slower reaction time)

    I still am very sceptical how good a self driving car will work in European cities with more pedestrians and cyclists , but this accident doesnt seem to be the cars fault.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    They were saying back in 2016 that self driving vehicles be common by 2020 I have yet to see one, it's now 2018. So I don't think their on for their target.

    I don't think they will be common by 2020 and I don't think I've heard anyone claim that. Perhaps you confused it with available retail as expensive option on very high end brand new cars or perhaps just a lower level of driver assistance (already available on a bunch of high end cars like Tesla, BMW, etc).

    However I've seen many around the streets and roads of California. Very weird to drive by them and will take a while to get used to them.

    I've heard there is talk of starting to test some on Irish country roads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Knowing the compo culture if self driving cars ever make an appearance here people will be trying to walk into them in order to claim and get compo.
    They're riddled with cameras and recording equipment.

    And the ones not built by Uber are a lot better at detecting errant pedestrians.

    I'm sure a few people will try for compo claims, but after some video footage from five different cameras and data showing that the vehicle started slowing 5ms after the pedestrian dived out in front of it, it'll become clear that there's no cash cow in it.

    It will surprise people how quickly these vehicles appear and how far ahead the technology is than they think it is.

    Most people think it's where Uber apparently have it; where it can't see a pedestrian in a shadow. Realistically it's way ahead of that.

    But this is a good case because it might wake up legislators to the need for regulation in this area to ensure that not just any cowboys can deploy autonomous vehicles onto the road.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    seamus wrote: »
    They're riddled with cameras and recording equipment.

    And the ones not built by Uber are a lot better at detecting errant pedestrians.

    I'm sure a few people will try for compo claims, but after some video footage from five different cameras and data showing that the vehicle started slowing 5ms after the pedestrian dived out in front of it, it'll become clear that there's no cash cow in it.

    It will surprise people how quickly these vehicles appear and how far ahead the technology is than they think it is.

    Most people think it's where Uber apparently have it; where it can't see a pedestrian in a shadow. Realistically it's way ahead of that.

    But this is a good case because it might wake up legislators to the need for regulation in this area to ensure that not just any cowboys can deploy autonomous vehicles onto the road.

    I am reminded of the first collision between a car and a tram. The Garda first went to the car driver who explained it was all the trams fault. He then went to the tram driver and asked 'What happened?' The tram driver pressed a button and pointed at a TV screen and said 'Watch!'. Case closed.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes I was thinking of how Dublin Bus busses are covered in cameras and they agressively pursue cases in court since they self insure. As a result most fraudsters don't try it on with them.

    The way self driving cars work is that they are covered in cameras and radar and it is all constantly being recorded to computer, including all telemetrics of what the car was doing. Be very foolish to jump in front of them.


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