Man cleared of murdering trespasser in home with garden shears

pilly · 15-03-2018 03:24PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Someone is in your child's bedroom in the middle of the night. What are you going to do? Answer that. Actually answer it instead of just saying 'keyboard warrior' over and over.

I would pick the child up and protect them. I might throw something at a person.

I certainly wouldn't kill them because there is no need to kill someone.

By the way I think I've said keyboard warrior once so cool the jets son.

You're very worked up about this hypothetical boogeyman in your childs room.

15-03-2018 03:28PM

pilly wrote: »

I would pick the child up and protect them. I might throw something at a person.

I certainly wouldn't kill them because there is no need to kill someone.

By the way I think I've said keyboard warrior once so cool the jets son.

You're very worked up about this hypothetical boogeyman in your childs room.

You'd just go in there in your nightie and go ''excuse me sir, I'll just fetch this infant here if you don't mind''. All sounds very calm and cordial. Fair play.

BattleCorp · 15-03-2018 03:34PM

Omackeral wrote: »

You'd just go in there in your nightie and go ''excuse me sir, I'll just fetch this infant here if you don't mind''. All sounds very calm and cordial. Fair play.

My missus in her nighty would be a very effective burglar deterrent.

Or a picture of me in a mankini posted at the front gate.

pilly · 15-03-2018 03:37PM

Omackeral wrote: »

You'd just go in there in your nightie and go ''excuse me sir, I'll just fetch this infant here if you don't mind''. All sounds very calm and cordial. Fair play.

Now that's not what I said is it?

It's certainly a lot more civilised than sticking half a shears through both of someone's lungs.

Anyway, as I say this is all fantasy land.

I'd love to hear back here after someone has actually killed another person about how great they feel about it.

dan1895 · 15-03-2018 03:40PM

No one said they would feel great.
No one wants to do it.
No one would enjoy it.
They just said they would do it. We can do extraordinary things when it comes to defending our loved ones.

GarIT · 15-03-2018 03:42PM

pilly wrote: »

Now that's not what I said is it?

It's certainly a lot more civilised than sticking half a shears through both of someone's lungs.

Anyway, as I say this is all fantasy land.

I'd love to hear back here after someone has actually killed another person about how great they feel about it.

Theres a huge difference between doing something in a heated situation and wanting not to go to jail for it when you felt you were protecting yourself and doing something because you wanted to. I haven't see anybody advocating that they want to kill burgulars, sometimes doing **** you don't want to do is in your best intrerests and you shouldn't be punished for it.

15-03-2018 03:42PM

pilly wrote: »

I'd love to hear back here after someone has actually killed another person about how great they feel about it.

Doubt many would feel good about it. Probably feel horrible and have PTSD. They'd also feel intruded on and would have loads of legal issues too. Hardly a walk in the park scenario. Any sane person would much rather it diodn't happen at all. People saying they'd do what it takes etc is not the same as people foaming at the mouth setting traps for would-be burglars.

cursai · 15-03-2018 03:46PM

Kill'em all!!! Hang them high!!!

LollipopJimmy · 15-03-2018 03:52PM

Wasn't this change in legislation brought to the forefront because of Padraig Nally and what happened with Frog Ward?

Kinda ironic if so that the first case where this has been applied got a traveller off the hook.

pilly · 15-03-2018 03:54PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Doubt many would feel good about it. Probably feel horrible and have PTSD. They'd also feel intruded on and would have loads of legal issues too. Hardly a walk in the park scenario. Any sane person would much rather it diodn't happen at all. People saying they'd do what it takes etc is not the same as people foaming at the mouth setting traps for would-be burglars.

I'm not bothered going back over the thread to find all the quotes but the general gist is "someone breaks into my house, deserves to be dead", "should be able to tie them up and then shoot them in the head", "should be able to beat them until their dead because it's not safe just to render them unconscious", as you well know because you've been following the thread too.

Now all of those things are against the law as they should be because they're fcuking psycho.

There's many ways to stop someone harming you or your family without killing them.

retro:electro · 15-03-2018 03:55PM

If you enter my house in the middle of the night, motivated by attempts to steal and threaten, id do whatever I could to protect myself.
Come at me and attack me and you’re getting stabbed with the nearest scissors.
Don’t want to be stabbed to death? Don’t break into someone’s house and lunge at them trying to attack them.

pilly · 15-03-2018 03:55PM

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Wasn't this change in legislation brought to the forefront because of Padraig Nally and what happened with Frog Ward?

Kinda ironic if so that the first case where this has been applied got a traveller off the hook.

I think it's hilarious the amount of traveller loving people AH has all of a sudden. :rolleyes:

dan1895 · 15-03-2018 04:01PM

pilly wrote: »

I'm not bothered going back over the thread to find all the quotes but the general gist is "someone breaks into my house, deserves to be dead", "should be able to tie them up and then shoot them in the head", "should be able to beat them until their dead because it's not safe just to render them unconscious", as you well know because you've been following the thread too.

Now all of those things are against the law as they should be because they're fcuking psycho.

There's many ways to stop someone harming you or your family without killing them.

People said that they should be allowed to do it. No one said that they want to do it.

As someone stated above, if you are forced to act in a way that you don't want to in order to defend yourself or your family you shouldn't be worried about the authorities penalising you afterwards.

Gravelly · 15-03-2018 04:01PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Those people are putting themselves in legal jeopardy if they actually use an offensive weapon kept in the bedroom for this purpose on a burglar - it suggests premeditation.

I would suggest at least pretending that the bat is in your bedroom because your kids leave stuff everywhere. No-one will believe it, but the jury will pretend to.

Some things I was told by someone with an involvement in the legal business:

If you shoot a burglar on your property, it would be good if he has one of your kitchen knives in his hand when the Gardaí arrive. It would also be good if your gun cleaning kit was to hand, as your gun should be locked away unless, say, you happened to be cleaning it when the burglar called.

If you keep a baseball bat or hurley in your bedroom, keep a baseball or slíotar there too. That way you can show you were practising, not keeping an offensive weapon. If there happens to be a knife in your bedroom, make sure that piece of wood you like to whittle in bed is nearby.

The Gardaí should be able to clearly see the window the intruder broke as he violently entered your property.

dan1895 · 15-03-2018 04:02PM

pilly wrote: »

I think it's hilarious the amount of traveller loving people AH has all of a sudden. :rolleyes:

I think your disappointed that this hasn't descended into a traveller bashing thread so you can get up on your high horse and preach to us all.

Gravelly · 15-03-2018 04:05PM

pilly wrote: »

I'd love to hear back here after someone has actually killed another person about how great they feel about it.

Doubt anyone outside a psychopath would feel good about it, but I'd rather live with the death of a law-breaking stranger than the death of one of my loved ones, and there's no way of knowing what the stranger that's broken into your house at night is capable of.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

pilly · 15-03-2018 04:11PM

dan1895 wrote: »

I think your disappointed that this hasn't descended into a traveller bashing thread so you can get up on your high horse and preach to us all.

No, not disappointed at all, just think the hypocrisy is hilarious. Please point to a single post of mine on Boards that ever defended a traveller. Thank you.

LollipopJimmy · 15-03-2018 04:13PM

pilly wrote: »

I think it's hilarious the amount of traveller loving people AH has all of a sudden. :rolleyes:

What has that got to do with what I said? I never expressed an opinion either way?

dan1895 · 15-03-2018 04:16PM

pilly wrote: »

No, not disappointed at all, just think the hypocrisy is hilarious. Please point to a single post of mine on Boards that ever defended a traveller. Thank you.

Its just how your coming across. I don't care if you've defended them in the past or not.

15-03-2018 04:19PM

pilly wrote: »

I'm not bothered going back over the thread to find all the quotes but the general gist is "someone breaks into my house, deserves to be dead", "should be able to tie them up and then shoot them in the head", "should be able to beat them until their dead because it's not safe just to render them unconscious", as you well know because you've been following the thread too.

Not the same as enjoying it, relishing it and hoping it happens. Most normal people just wanna be left alone in their own home. If some piece of sh*t doesn't respect that and ends up dead as a result of it, so fcuking what. I won't cry for them. That's why Frog Ward is dead. It's the person who's hand is forced I feel for. Padraig Nally was forced to sleep in a shed over scumbags terrorising him in his own sanctuary. Made to feel like a dog. If didn't enter the man's property with bad intentions, he'd be alive today. Same as any other would-be intruding tramp who decides to be an affront to ordinary decent folks.

I feel the exact same way about toe rags killed in stolen cars. F*ck them, they deserve it. Leave people's stuff alone and it wouldn't happen. I'd feel sorry for the poor person who's property is destroyed and has to go through all the rigmarole of replacing and fixing things.

15-03-2018 04:20PM

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Wasn't this change in legislation brought to the forefront because of Padraig Nally and what happened with Frog Ward?

Kinda ironic if so that the first case where this has been applied got a traveller off the hook.

twasnt a hook twas a shears

LollipopJimmy · 15-03-2018 04:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

twasnt a hook twas a shears

Evidently yer man didn't get off the shears

Zubeneschamali · 15-03-2018 04:30PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Oh yes, I know. The kids have left a hurley, a hockey stick and a baseball bat in my bedroom at various times over the years.

I am just pointing out that if anyone does have cause to use a weapon on a burglar, a maglite is much better that a Commando knife you bought from a shop saying you wanted something to kill burglars with.

I'd imagine that's why the defendant in this case had a broken garden tool to hand and not a machete.

Just because the law says it is OK to defend your home does not mean it is OK to plan murder.

BattleCorp · 15-03-2018 04:39PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Just because the law says it is OK to defend your home does not mean it is OK to plan murder.

Having an implement in your bedroom that could be used for self defence doesn't man that you are planning murder.

....... · 15-03-2018 04:45PM

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....... · 15-03-2018 04:46PM

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Zubeneschamali · 15-03-2018 04:49PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Having an implement in your bedroom that could be used for self defence doesn't man that you are planning murder.

A maglite, true. A baseball bat when neither you nor anyone you know ever played baseball - problematic.

A camouflaged ceramic Commando knife - sorry buddy, that's an offensive weapon. Having one of those by your bed and then killing an intruder with it would certainly give the impression that you were planning exactly that.

BattleCorp · 15-03-2018 04:54PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A maglite, true. A baseball bat when neither you nor anyone you know ever played baseball - problematic.

A camouflaged ceramic Commando knife - sorry buddy, that's an offensive weapon. Having one of those by your bed and then killing an intruder with it would certainly give the impression that you were planning exactly that.

To use your phrase 'offensive weapon', there are many ways to explain why an offensive weapon was kept in your bedroom.

"I collect knives your honor. I have done for years and years. I have this one since I was 8. My dear old Dad who is now deceased got it for me for my 8th birthday. It's my hobby. I keep them in my bedroom because I don't want the kids to go near them."

Now, as a firearms owner, if I keep my gun in the bedroom instead of the gunsafe as I'm legally mandated to do, then that's a different story.

Zubeneschamali · 15-03-2018 04:55PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Suppose I am walking down the street with my shopping, and I am set upon by 3 lads. I happen to have just bought a hammer, and I defend myself with it, killing one of the lads. The others run off. I am in a good place to claim self defence and reasonable force.

Now suppose I am walking down the street, I am set upon by 3 lads and I produce 2 ceramic knives I have concealed in leather pouches strapped under my clothes and kill one of the lads with one.

Now I am not in such a good place since I was walking about with concealed offensive weapons, evidently planning and prepared to unleash lethal violence.

Likewise, if I am confronted by an intruder and I grab a nearby item and belt him one, I may be good. If I have an offensive weapon to hand, it is evidence that I have prepared in advance, made a plan. A story that the intruder "came right at me" may get less credence, it looks more like I was lying in wait.

rustynutz · 15-03-2018 05:02PM

pilly wrote: »

I'm not bothered going back over the thread to find all the quotes but the general gist is "someone breaks into my house, deserves to be dead", "should be able to tie them up and then shoot them in the head", "should be able to beat them until their dead because it's not safe just to render them unconscious", as you well know because you've been following the thread too.

Now all of those things are against the law as they should be because they're fcuking psycho.

There's many ways to stop someone harming you or your family without killing them.

I'm sorry, but that sounds incredibly naive, you are assuming the person that has broken into your house is sane and reasonable, and that if disturbed they will make their way to the nearest exit without any fuss. The reality is, they are more likely try and hurt or kill you, than not, particularly if you are in a doorway, or in their path for escape. While you make an attempt to hit them, or whatever non lethal force you are suggesting, they will be fighting back, and are probably more used to being in this situation than you are so more likely to win.

I am 6'2 and trained in self defence and I can tell you that the last thing I would be doing is getting into a fist fight, or wrestling match with an (possibly armed, and/or high) intruder. Unless they ran for the nearest exit (unlikely) I would be attacking with whatever the nearest weapon is to hand, not out of some Hardman blood lust, but because this reduces the risk of the intruder hurting me or my family.

I don't think its any harm to have thought about what you would do in this scenario in advance, however unlikely it is to happen, rather than trying to figure it out for the first time when the intruder is already in your home.

Man cleared of murdering trespasser in home with garden shears

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