Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

bilston · 14-03-2018 10:49AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Dubinusa wrote: »

Ulster will recover. The quality of the u20 players shows that. Remember, if the legal issues with Jackson and Olding never happened, ulster would be contending at a higher level. Unseen circumstances, that destroyed the make up of the team. Deysel has been crap, Diack is not up to standard, Bowe, Trimble and Henry are at the end of their careers. There are so many issues that need to be fixed and recruitment seems to be top of the list. I always thought that Piatau was a bad signing. I would have invested thst money into the pack. A lh and a 2nd row. The fans a right to be disgruntled because the team folds week in and week out. That is probably poor coaching. If it's not the coaching and it's the players attitude, then they need to be released.

There hasnt been an issue with quality of under 20 players in past and Ulster are still in the ****e. Ulster wouldnt necessarily be much better even with those 2 available.

We would be far better with Jackson in our team. People underestimate how good he was/is for us.

bilston · 14-03-2018 10:54AM

MJohnston wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

There's a significant question mark over it. His tenure was completely unsuccessful and I don't think he's a top head coach.

But I'm not sure many would have done much better. Ulster have been on the decline for a few years now including prior to his arrival. It coincides with injuries, unavailability of players, key players reaching the end of their careers and a decline in the standard of the NIQ players.

The arrival of Murphy and Moore is a boost. If they make a couple more shrewd signings, they could have the bones of a good team. A lot hinges on legal proceedings in Belfast in the next 5-6 days also. From reading UAFC, many on there expect those involved to be back with Ulster Rugby next season if all goes well this week.

I sincerely hope not, it would genuinely be the end of my support of the club.

Presumably we'll be able to discuss this a bit more freely in the next week or so, but whatever about my own personal feelings, I'd be surprised if they are at Ulster next season.

But Bryn has stated that Ulster will have an experienced 10 next season. Define experienced though? For example is Ross Byrne experienced?

prawnsambo · 14-03-2018 11:00AM

bilston wrote: »

Presumably we'll be able to discuss this a bit more freely in the next week or so, but whatever about my own personal feelings, I'd be surprised if they are at Ulster next season.

But Bryn has stated that Ulster will have an experienced 10 next season. Define experienced though? For example is Ross Byrne experienced?

38 caps is probably on the low side of experienced, but it includes some high-stakes matches in the Champions Cup. And big interpros.

14-03-2018 11:13AM

Anyone that thinks Bryn Cunningham's comments are ok need only to look at Peter O'Mahony's reaction to having his team mates questioned to understand why it's a bad idea, regardless of whether it's true or not.

Bryn isn't a player anymore and going by Ferris's comments it's entirely possible that he is viewed by the players as part of the problem.

There is absolutely no school of management that suggests publicly shaming your employees is a good management style. You create an environment where people excel or you take your share of the responsibility in that environment not being created.

He actually sounds as bad as some of the worst aspects of the fan base.

prawnsambo · 14-03-2018 11:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone that thinks Bryn Cunningham's comments are ok need only to look at Peter O'Mahony's reaction to having his team mates questioned to understand why it's a bad idea, regardless of whether it's true or not.

Bryn isn't a player anymore and going by Ferris's comments it's entirely possible that he is viewed by the players as part of the problem.

There is absolutely no school of management that suggests publicly shaming your employees is a good management style. You create an environment where people excel or you take your share of the responsibility in that environment not being created.

He actually sounds as bad as some of the worst aspects of the fan base.

Yeah, there's an element of him trying to be 'one of the lads' with those alleged comments. Just about the first thing you learn not to be in management 101.

MJohnston · 14-03-2018 11:34AM

Yeah I thought Cunningham's comments looked quite weaselly in how he appeared to throw some people under the bus in order to ingratiate himself with some angry fans. As a manager, he needs to be taking the blame, not fobbing things off, even if certain players are rubbish. Typical Bangor man!

awec · 14-03-2018 11:56AM

Time will tell. I guess with all this untold damage Ulster will struggle to sign any player in future.

Or maybe we’ll continue to sign players and this fuss will be shown to be nonsense.

Maybe some crap players will leave on the back of it. We’ll be gutted at that I’m sure.

prawnsambo · 14-03-2018 11:58AM

awec wrote: »

Time will tell. I guess with all this untold damage Ulster will struggle to sign any player in future.

Or maybe we’ll continue to sign players and this fuss will be shown to be nonsense.

Maybe some crap players will leave on the back of it. We’ll be gutted at that I’m sure.

I just think back to the Munster leaked emails and the fallout from that. I'm not sure how long it took to recover from it, but it was very damaging at the time and for a long time afterwards.

awec · 14-03-2018 11:59AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I just think back to the Munster leaked emails and the fallout from that. I'm not sure how long it took to recover from it, but it was very damaging at the time and for a long time afterwards.

Well we’ll see about that as well I guess.

I’m not concerned.

MJohnston · 14-03-2018 12:15PM

awec wrote: »

Time will tell. I guess with all this untold damage Ulster will struggle to sign any player in future.

Or maybe we’ll continue to sign players and this fuss will be shown to be nonsense.

Maybe some crap players will leave on the back of it. We’ll be gutted at that I’m sure.

Yeah, great if some crap players leave, but it suggests that Cunningham is a big part of the rot at the heart of the club. I'm genuinely surprised that doesn't bother you.

prawnsambo · 14-03-2018 12:18PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, great if some crap players leave, but it suggests that Cunningham is a big part of the rot at the heart of the club. I'm genuinely surprised that doesn't bother you.

I'm beginning to think that awec was the one at that meeting asking all those questions and posting them afterwards on UAFC.

14-03-2018 12:24PM

awec wrote: »

Well we’ll see about that as well I guess.

I’m not concerned.

You clearly are. You've been concerned about Ulster rugby for quite some time judging by your posts and you are right to be.

I'm not saying there is going to be immediate fallout from these comments. I'm saying that it's poor judgement and bad management to make those kinds of comments.

It's the type of poor judgement and bad management that Ulster appear to be suffering from over the last few years.

I'd be concerned about a director of operations showcasing such poor judgement publicly. I'd be drawing a line between this most recent example of poor decision making and the overall decline of the province.

molloyjh · 14-03-2018 12:25PM

awec wrote: »

Time will tell. I guess with all this untold damage Ulster will struggle to sign any player in future.

Or maybe we’ll continue to sign players and this fuss will be shown to be nonsense.

More things that nobody has said. What we have said is that this kind of thing will put players off. Not that Ulster will struggle to ever sign another player. Is it so hard for you to argue the points being made? Or are you so blinded by your frustrations at this point that you simply can't react rationally to the points being made?

Plus, you'll never, ever know about a player who immediately says no when approached so could never in any way measure the impact in those terms.

Either way the point is clearly that this is another reason for players not to join Ulster. And given where the province is right now the last thing they need is more reasons to look elsewhere.

awec wrote: »

Maybe some crap players will leave on the back of it. We’ll be gutted at that I’m sure.

Again, not the point at all. Everyone else seems to get this. How come you don't?

irishbucsfan · 14-03-2018 12:31PM

Awec:

awec · 14-03-2018 01:37PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You clearly are. You've been concerned about Ulster rugby for quite some time judging by your posts and you are right to be.

I'm not saying there is going to be immediate fallout from these comments. I'm saying that it's poor judgement and bad management to make those kinds of comments.

It's the type of poor judgement and bad management that Ulster appear to be suffering from over the last few years.

I'd be concerned about a director of operations showcasing such poor judgement publicly. I'd be drawing a line between this most recent example of poor decision making and the overall decline of the province.

I think you’re reaching.

You’re saying that Bryn Cunningham being honest about some poor players is part of the reason Ulster are poor.

That is total rubbish.

It is interesting to see the people who told us all along that the players need to take responsibility rather than just always blaming coaches have done a complete 180.

Anyway, time will tell. I’m willing to bet there’ll be no fall out, no exodus of players, no difficulty in signings in future. The uproar will be confined to boards.ie.

awec · 14-03-2018 01:39PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, great if some crap players leave, but it suggests that Cunningham is a big part of the rot at the heart of the club. I'm genuinely surprised that doesn't bother you.

Why does it suggest that?

Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. Who knows. He didn’t say anything factually incorrect. His assessment was spot on. It suggests there is at least one person who has a clue in the Ulster set up.

It would have been a far bigger deal if he had stood up and defended these wasters or refused to call a spade a spade. Had he done that he may as well just follow Kiss out the door.

prawnsambo · 14-03-2018 01:47PM

I think the beatings will continue until morale improves. On both fronts.

bilston · 14-03-2018 01:53PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think the beatings will continue until morale improves. On both fronts.

The beatings will continue for the rest of the season because we're rubbish. I honestly think there is a danger we could lose all our remaining games.

14-03-2018 01:59PM

awec wrote: »

I think you’re reaching.

You’re saying that Bryn Cunningham being honest about some poor players is part of the reason Ulster are poor.

I didn't say that. By all accounts those players should be made aware and most likely are aware that they aren't performing. There should be consequences for that.

I'm saying making those remarks in public is poor judgement and bad management. I'm not sure which part of that you consider reaching.

awec wrote: »

It is interesting to see the people who told us all along that the players need to take responsibility rather than just always blaming coaches have done a complete 180.

Who is doing this? The players absolutely need to take responsibility for their individual performances. The coaches need to take responsibility for collective performances. No one has given the players and no one has given the coaches a free pass on how things have gone this season.

The operations director is neither a coach nor a player. He is however a senior decision maker at Ulster Rugby. His decision to make those comments would be a concern for me. If that is the standard of decision making he brings to the role, I would be concerned about that.

awec wrote: »

Anyway, time will tell. I’m willing to bet there’ll be no fall out, no exodus of players, no difficulty in signings in future. The uproar will be confined to boards.ie.

And here is my point. I think you've been watching the fall out for years.

You've said it yourself plenty of times about Ulster's inability to attract talent north:

awec wrote:

And once again, as I've said about 100 times now, the only southern players who have done it have been low standard players who had no pro rugby contracts in the south.

I wonder why.

molloyjh · 14-03-2018 02:07PM

awec wrote: »

I think you’re reaching.

You’re saying that Bryn Cunningham being honest about some poor players is part of the reason Ulster are poor.

Again, this is not exactly what anyone has said. What they have said is that this kind of behaviour points to a culture that is not conducive to a successful organisation. The comments themselves are not directly impacting. The overall culture that led to the comments is.

awec wrote: »

It is interesting to see the people who told us all along that the players need to take responsibility rather than just always blaming coaches have done a complete 180.

This hasn't happened, regardless of how many times you say it. Nobody has ever said what you think they have

awec wrote: »

Anyway, time will tell. I’m willing to bet there’ll be no fall out, no exodus of players, no difficulty in signings in future. The uproar will be confined to boards.ie.

Nobody has said there will be an exodus. Nobody has said players will no longer move to Ulster. No matter how many times you say these things they are still irrelevant to the points being made.

Yeah_Right · 14-03-2018 02:55PM

awec wrote: »

I think you’re reaching.

You’re saying that Bryn Cunningham being honest about some poor players is part of the reason Ulster are poor.

That is total rubbish.

I assume you have an annual performance review in your job. How would you feel if a member of senior management at your work then discussed those performance reviews at an industry conference and actually named the staff that hadn't been performing that well. I'm pretty certain they would be fired.

Paul Smeenus · 14-03-2018 02:56PM

I propose we limit this conversation to people who were there, and heard exactly what Bryn said, rather than reading how someone paraphrased it on the ever-hysterical UAFC interwebz forum.

Unless you really can't bear to miss out on this conjecture-fuelled handwringing.

mfceiling · 14-03-2018 04:59PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I assume you have an annual performance review in your job. How would you feel if a member of senior management at your work then discussed those performance reviews at an industry conference and actually named the staff that hadn't been performing that well. I'm pretty certain they would be fired.

https://youtu.be/K2ZfWRbk0OQ

jacothelad · 14-03-2018 10:45PM

MJohnston wrote: »

I sincerely hope not, it would genuinely be the end of my support of the club.

Well, if they are available it would mean that they are without a stain on their character....Moralising is so easy from the audience seats. On what grounds would you sack them?

MJohnston · 14-03-2018 10:55PM

jacothelad wrote: »

Well, if they are available it would mean that they are without a stain on their character....Moralising is so easy from the audience seats. On what grounds would you sack them?

Can't talk about it until the trial is over.

Digifriendly · 14-03-2018 10:56PM

Lets just wait until the verdict before we say what we are going to do or not do re Ulster rugby.

Hands Like Flippers · 15-03-2018 12:42AM

Campbell played very well in the medallion final yesterday but lost to Ballymena 10 12.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-03-2018 10:08AM

jacothelad wrote: »

Well, if they are available it would mean that they are without a stain on their character....Moralising is so easy from the audience seats. On what grounds would you sack them?

Obviously there's no verdict yet but theres a rumour that a mistrial may be declared by the judge instead of a ruling of guilt or innocence.

If this is the case would Ulster fans want the two men back?

prawnsambo · 15-03-2018 10:12AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Obviously there's no verdict yet but theres a rumour that a mistrial may be declared by the judge instead of a ruling of guilt or innocence.

If this is the case would Ulster fans want the two men back?

That would normally result in a new trial.

Buer · 15-03-2018 10:19AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Obviously there's no verdict yet but theres a rumour that a mistrial may be declared by the judge instead of a ruling of guilt or innocence.

If this is the case would Ulster fans want the two men back?

Well, after proceedings being on ice for the last day or two, the court is back in session and closing statements are being delivered.

Looks like this will be put to the jury. A verdict isn't expected until late next week as the court isn't sitting on Monday or Tuesday, apparently.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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