UK: Up to 1,000 children ‘drugged, beaten and raped’ in Telford grooming scandal

end of the road · 12-03-2018 06:53PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

This is totally ****ed up. the disdain shown towards these girls by the authorities is disgusting. It's indefensible and it's no wonder that the usual suspects who minimise, down play and deflect from these issues are nowhere to be seen in this thread

that's because nobody minimizes, downplays and deflectss from these issues. you will find nobody defending what is happening on this thread or any other threads discussing said issues.

ceadaoin. · 12-03-2018 06:57PM

end of the road wrote: »

that's because nobody minimizes, downplays and deflectss from these issues. you will find nobody defending what is happening on this thread or any other threads discussing said issues.

One person has already done the whole "what about Ireland/Catholic church" thing on this thread. Yes that was bad and a completely shameful part of Irish history too but is completely irrelevant to this discussion which has its own particular set of circumstances and causes.

And course, that sentence was the most important one to reply to from my entire post about the horrific abuse of a young girl and how she was failed over and over again for years.

Irish Praetorian · 12-03-2018 06:59PM

weisses wrote: »

Brexit ... Best thing that happened

Right because clearly what events like telford show is that britain's migrant population should feature fewer Poles and Belgians and more Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

If youre being sarcastic do pardon me for not realizing.

Wheeliebin30 · 13-03-2018 08:27AM

What a ****ed up world.

Makes you despair reading stuff like this.

pilly · 13-03-2018 12:25PM

I know this will be an unpopular view but these girls parents have a lot to answer for.

It seems to me that more and more young girls in the UK are allowed to do what they want and it's very dangerous.

As a parent who struggled with a teenage daughter running wild I know it's a struggle but at no stage did I give up and say "ah go on, do what you want".

Experience_day · 13-03-2018 12:32PM

pilly wrote: »

I know this will be an unpopular view but these girls parents have a lot to answer for.

It seems to me that more and more young girls in the UK are allowed to do what they want and it's very dangerous.

As a parent who struggled with a teenage daughter running wild I know it's a struggle but at no stage did I give up and say "ah go on, do what you want".

Nice deflection. No the issue isn't the parents or the girls. Its the importation and acceptance without question of backward religions and cultures....

pilly · 13-03-2018 12:33PM

Experience_day wrote: »

Nice deflection. No the issue isn't the parents or the girls. Its the importation and acceptance without question of backward religions and cultures....

I am not trying to deflect whatsoever. I've no time for scumbags of any type.

Are you trying to say that parents aren't responsible for their children whatsoever????

splinter65 · 13-03-2018 12:38PM

pilly wrote: »

I am not trying to deflect whatsoever. I've no time for scumbags of any type.

Are you trying to say that parents aren't responsible for their children whatsoever????

Most of these girls were in “care”. I use the word loosely.
Nobody “cared” about these girls in any real sense. The people charged with “caring” for them were all kowtowing to PCness in not offending the religious minority for fear of being lambasted by the liberal left. Cops social workers teachers, the whole lot. Terrified of having the finger pointed at you over your racism.

RDM_83 again · 13-03-2018 12:43PM

pilly wrote: »

I know this will be an unpopular view but these girls parents have a lot to answer for.

It seems to me that more and more young girls in the UK are allowed to do what they want and it's very dangerous.

As a parent who struggled with a teenage daughter running wild I know it's a struggle but at no stage did I give up and say "ah go on, do what you want".

Maybe some of them but we know from other cases that the parents were actually arrested for confronting their abusers.
Also AFAIK related to this scandal some of the abusers actually commited murder.

Grayson · 13-03-2018 12:57PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Most of these girls were in “care”. I use the word loosely.
Nobody “cared” about these girls in any real sense. The people charged with “caring” for them were all kowtowing to PCness in not offending the religious minority for fear of being lambasted by the liberal left. Cops social workers teachers, the whole lot. Terrified of having the finger pointed at you over your racism.

Don't dump it all on the "liberal left". Those kids were in care and the right give very few fcuks about them too. Children in that situation in the UK are even more worse off because of a decade of Tory cuts to their services.
In fact, the only time the right seem to cry out about children in care is when they have been targeted by asian paedophiles.

The fact is that we need to do a lot more to help needy children, both in the UK and Ireland. We need to make sure that the organisations that deal with them are properly funded and have the proper oversight.

What happened to the kids in the OP is horrible and we need to make sure that children have whatever help they need, for whatever reasons.

MilesMorales1 · 13-03-2018 01:04PM

Grayson wrote: »

Don't dump it all on the "liberal left". Those kids were in care and the right give very few fcuks about them too. Children in that situation in the UK are even more worse off because of a decade of Tory cuts to their services.
In fact, the only time the right seem to cry out about children in care is when they have been targeted by asian paedophiles.

The fact is that we need to do a lot more to help needy children, both in the UK and Ireland. We need to make sure that the organisations that deal with them are properly funded and have the proper oversight.

What happened to the kids in the OP is horrible and we need to make sure that children have whatever help they need, for whatever reasons.

I absolutely agree. This is a systemic failure from labour and conservatives, and from the system in general. Nobody did their jobs, then we think its ok to point and laugh at these badly damaged and neglected people when they show up on stuff on like Jeremy Kyle.

ancapailldorcha · 13-03-2018 01:10PM

Have to say that I'm pretty enraged at far left Green MP Caroline Lucas using this to push her agenda:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/973286189888393217

pilly · 13-03-2018 01:10PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Maybe some of them but we know from other cases that the parents were actually arrested for confronting their abusers.
Also AFAIK related to this scandal some of the abusers actually commited murder.

Don't know what murder has to do with what I said??

I'm not saying parents are responsible for bringing these scumbags to justice, maybe I put it the wrong way.

I'm saying parents are responsible for keeping their own children safe from harm. Now I accept that it's not always possible and you can't be with them 24/7 but a common thread in these cases appears to be that the girls involved were able to spend a huge amount of time hanging out with these scum, drinking and taking drugs.

As others have said some of these children were in care which is actually worse because the people meant to be "caring" for them were supposed to be paid professionals.

I'm not saying that there's not a problem with the lack of respect some cultures have for women and young girls what I'm saying is it's a bigger problem than that and society as a whole is to blame for letting children be in dangerous positions.

Mutant z · 13-03-2018 02:46PM

What ever happened to law and order is that going to be thrown away in the name of political correctness and cultural sensitivities.

13-03-2018 02:55PM

pilly wrote: »

Don't know what murder has to do with what I said??

I'm not saying parents are responsible for bringing these scumbags to justice, maybe I put it the wrong way.

I'm saying parents are responsible for keeping their own children safe from harm. Now I accept that it's not always possible and you can't be with them 24/7 but a common thread in these cases appears to be that the girls involved were able to spend a huge amount of time hanging out with these scum, drinking and taking drugs.

As others have said some of these children were in care which is actually worse because the people meant to be "caring" for them were supposed to be paid professionals.

I'm not saying that there's not a problem with the lack of respect some cultures have for women and young girls what I'm saying is it's a bigger problem than that and society as a whole is to blame for letting children be in dangerous positions.

How long do you go at a time without contacting your daughter? Does she get an hour or two a week without you knowing exactly where she is? That's all it takes at the start. The grooming can start at a younger age and once they're 16/17 and allowed more freedom they've already been pulled in. Some in care, sure some parents won't pay "enough" attention.

I do find it fantastic though how "society" and "the elites" oh and the "system" and parents are all thrown out here. Usually people who throw out anything other than vilifying rapists are called "apologists" or "victim-blamers" but when it doesn't suit the narrative people will jump whereever.

Mutant z · 13-03-2018 03:02PM

Why doesnt anyone listen to those who dont think open borders are a good idea when you keep allowing unsavoury people into a country this happens and before anyone starts im well aware there are Irish scumbags but that doesnt justify importing even more in it definitely doesn't.

ceadaoin. · 13-03-2018 03:13PM

pilly wrote: »

I know this will be an unpopular view but these girls parents have a lot to answer for.

It seems to me that more and more young girls in the UK are allowed to do what they want and it's very dangerous.

As a parent who struggled with a teenage daughter running wild I know it's a struggle but at no stage did I give up and say "ah go on, do what you want".

If you read the report I posted yesterday you'll see that at least in the cases of the girls looked at in that, the parents contacted police and social services on numerous occasions. They supported their daughter through abortions and miscarriages, told the police everything and they did nothing. They got their daughter counseling where she disclosed the abuse and still nothing was done. I don't think they were the only ones who tried to get help. Another was murdered in a house fire along with her daughter by one of the perpetrators. At least two fathers were arrested trying to remove their daughters from their abusers. What else would you expect them to do if no one is listening? They must have been at their wits end. I'm sure some parents didn't do anything to stop what happened, we are know that abusers know to target the most vulnerable kids, but lots did and it's unfair to say they are to blame.

13-03-2018 03:18PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

If you read the report I posted yesterday you'll see that at least in the cases of the girls looked at in that, the parents contacted police and social services on numerous occasions. They supported their daughter through abortions and miscarriages, told the police everything and they did nothing. They got their daughter counseling where she disclosed the abuse and still nothing was done. Another mother was murdered along with her daughter by one of the perpetrators. At least two fathers were arrested trying to remove their daughters from their abusers. What else would you expect them to do if no one is listening? They must have been at their wits end. I'm sure some parents didn't do anything to stop what happened, we are know that abusers know to target the most vulnerable kids, but lots did and it's unfair to say they are to blame.

Hence the "some". My point was that for these scum to start getting into kids doesn't take bad parenting (though can make it easier). Take a 14 year old, talk to her for an hour every few weeks. Once she's 15/16 take her for a spin once a month. Have alcohol around. Fairly simple stuff.
Parents will likely find out too late if at all.

ceadaoin. · 13-03-2018 03:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hence the "some". My point was that for these scum to start getting into kids doesn't take bad parenting (though can make it easier). Take a 14 year old, talk to her for an hour every few weeks. Once she's 15/16 take her for a spin once a month. Have alcohol around. Fairly simple stuff.
Parents will likely find out too late if at all.

Sorry I replied to the wrong post there . Edited now.

Completely agree with you

Mutant z · 13-03-2018 03:24PM

We live in a world where the perpetrators rights are considered to be more important than the victims how messed up is that.

pilly · 13-03-2018 05:15PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

If you read the report I posted yesterday you'll see that at least in the cases of the girls looked at in that, the parents contacted police and social services on numerous occasions. They supported their daughter through abortions and miscarriages, told the police everything and they did nothing. They got their daughter counseling where she disclosed the abuse and still nothing was done. I don't think they were the only ones who tried to get help. Another was murdered in a house fire along with her daughter by one of the perpetrators. At least two fathers were arrested trying to remove their daughters from their abusers. What else would you expect them to do if no one is listening? They must have been at their wits end. I'm sure some parents didn't do anything to stop what happened, we are know that abusers know to target the most vulnerable kids, but lots did and it's unfair to say they are to blame.

I did not say parents were to BLAME, no-one is to blame but the scum who carried out the crime.

What I said what they've a lot to answer for.

You said yourself that abusers are known to go for the vulnerable kids so don't tell me there's not a grain of truth in saying that parents and society have to take more steps to protect our children.

And I will agree with others that this includes being careful of who we let into our country.

13-03-2018 05:17PM

pilly wrote: »

I did not say parents were to BLAME, no-one is to blame but the scum who carried out the crime.

What I said what they've a lot to answer for.

You said yourself that abusers are known to go for the vulnerable kids so don't tell me there's not a grain of truth in saying that parents and society have to take more steps to protect our children.

do you have teenage children?

pilly · 13-03-2018 05:22PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

If you read the report I posted yesterday you'll see that at least in the cases of the girls looked at in that, the parents contacted police and social services on numerous occasions. They supported their daughter through abortions and miscarriages, told the police everything and they did nothing. They got their daughter counseling where she disclosed the abuse and still nothing was done. I don't think they were the only ones who tried to get help. Another was murdered in a house fire along with her daughter by one of the perpetrators. At least two fathers were arrested trying to remove their daughters from their abusers. What else would you expect them to do if no one is listening? They must have been at their wits end. I'm sure some parents didn't do anything to stop what happened, we are know that abusers know to target the most vulnerable kids, but lots did and it's unfair to say they are to blame.

I'm not being sarcastic now but I don't see that report. Perhaps you could link it again? I've genuinely looked back over your posts.

pilly · 13-03-2018 05:23PM

Aegir wrote: »

do you have teenage children?

I've have 3 grown children who were teenagers once, yes.

Pepefrogok · 13-03-2018 05:26PM

Muslims are vastly overrepresented in rape over all, they make up 12% of the prison population in the UK, near three times their percentage of population, this is a serious problem that needs investigated! The head in the sand attitude won't cut it anymore!

Rory28 · 13-03-2018 05:31PM

The only deserving punishment is to paralyse them from the neck down and let them rot in a cell until the bed sores get them.

ceadaoin. · 13-03-2018 06:08PM

pilly wrote: »

I'm not being sarcastic now but I don't see that report. Perhaps you could link it again? I've genuinely looked back over your posts.

It's in my post yesterday at 17.38

http://sscb.safeguardingsomerset.org.uk/download/3307/

This is from another case, not Telford btw but it seems to be a similar operation. Look at the missed opportunities section, particularly in relation to "child Q". Her parents asked for help and reported the abuse to police and social services on multiple occasions and nothing was done. Even when the child herself disclosed the abuse to a counselor, the information wasn't passed on to police or social services. Yet when the abuser alleged once that he was being racially abused by his victim, she was charged with a hate crime and brought to court. If that's not sending a message to these girls that they will be punished if they report these crimes then I don't know what is. I'd imagine there are many similar stories.

I agree that yes, there were some girls whose parents were neglectful, but even where they weren't they were actively denied help. Abuse and grooming can happen to any child, even one from a "good family". The main fault here lies with the local police and authorities (and the abusers themselves of course) and they need to be held accountable. Putting the focus on the parents is deflecting from the real issue, that many police forces and local services around the UK are not fit for purpose and are not enforcing the law to prevent the abuse of thousands of girls.

pilly · 13-03-2018 06:16PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's in my post yesterday at 17.38

http://sscb.safeguardingsomerset.org.uk/download/3307/

This is from another case, not Telford btw but it seems to be a similar operation. Look at the missed opportunities section, particularly in relation to "child Q". Her parents asked for help and reported the abuse to police and social services on multiple occasions and nothing was done. Even when the child herself disclosed the abuse to a counselor, the information wasn't passed on to police or social services. Yet when the abuser alleged once that he was being racially abused by his victim, she was charged with a hate crime and brought to court. If that's not sending a message to these girls that they will be punished if they report these crimes then I don't know what is. I'd imagine there are many similar stories.

I agree that yes, there were some girls whose parents were neglectful, but even where they weren't they were actively denied help. Abuse and grooming can happen to any child, even one from a "good family". The main fault here lies with the local police and authorities (and the abusers themselves of course) and they need to be held accountable. Putting the focus on the parents is deflecting from the real issue, that many police forces and local services around the UK are not fit for purpose and are not enforcing the law to prevent the abuse of thousands of girls.

Thanks for that, can't read it now as I'm on the move but I definitely will tomorrow.

I agree with what you're saying too. What I'm trying to say is more or less the same as you. I'm not trying to shift the focus to the parents, what I'm trying to say is that there are many different factors including police failure involved in this.

Ranting and raving about the brown guys all the time is not going to solve this problem.

Procedure has to be followed by police and it looks like here and in other cases it's not being followed.

But also vulnerable children need to be protected by all of us so that these fcukers don't get to take advantage of them.

ceadaoin. · 13-03-2018 06:36PM

pilly wrote: »

Thanks for that, can't read it now as I'm on the move but I definitely will tomorrow.

I agree with what you're saying too. What I'm trying to say is more or less the same as you. I'm not trying to shift the focus to the parents, what I'm trying to say is that there are many different factors including police failure involved in this.

Ranting and raving about the brown guys all the time is not going to solve this problem.

Procedure has to be followed by police and it looks like here and in other cases it's not being followed.

But also vulnerable children need to be protected by all of us so that these fcukers don't get to take advantage of them.

Yes I definitely think we are on the same page here. I haven't been ranting about the brown guys, but I know that some do. The problems come if they are the only people talking about it in the public sphere though and that seems to be the case here. I don't think the BBC have even covered this story yet? Covering stuff up like that can only lead to more people turning to the far right simply because there aren't any other options. We all know they don't actually care about the victims, only pushing their agenda.

It's undeniable that culture is a huge factor in these abuse rings and why they are allowed to continue. There are other factors too and all of them need to discussed to address the problem. Ignoring the elephant in the room can only lead to more problems further down the road.

13-03-2018 07:13PM

pilly wrote: »

I've have 3 grown children who were teenagers once, yes.

Then you must know how difficult it is to keep tabs on them. Hell, mine goes out with her friends on a Saturday afternoon and with a leap card, can get all over town and back in time for tea

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't think the BBC have even covered this story yet? Covering stuff up like that can only lead to more people turning to the far right simply because there aren't any other options. We all know they don't actually care about the victims, only pushing their agenda.

why are people obsessed with this being covered up?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-43385049

If you follow the links in the article, it takes you to numerous stories on the BBC site about this.

Because it isn't front page news on what you see (remember, you see the international version of the BBC website) it doesn't mean it is being covered up.

That said, I do feel the police are scared to act for fear of being branded racist.

UK: Up to 1,000 children ‘drugged, beaten and raped’ in Telford grooming scandal

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