VW emissions software update - disaster

Casati · 05-03-2018 10:18PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Toyota to stop selling diesel passenger cars across Europe at the end of the year...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/toyota-to-end-production-of-diesel-cars-this-year-1.3415933

That’s a risky move imo, they are cutting themselves out of 40%+ of potential sales. Can’t imagine a Landcruiser hybrid doing great in the sales charts or companies forgoing the vat they can reclaim on diesel to buy fleets of hybrid company cars

Doltanian · 05-03-2018 10:26PM

New Toyota's are Rubbish and VAG have the Irish market effectively sewn up.

colm_mcm · 05-03-2018 10:28PM

Casati wrote: »

That’s a risky move imo, they are cutting themselves out of 40%+ of potential sales. Can’t imagine a Landcruiser hybrid doing great in the sales charts or companies forgoing the vat they can reclaim on diesel to buy fleets of hybrid company cars

I don’t think Ireland features that high in their plans!

Frankie Lee · 05-03-2018 10:29PM

Casati wrote: »

That’s a risky move imo, they are cutting themselves out of 40%+ of potential sales. Can’t imagine a Landcruiser hybrid doing great in the sales charts or companies forgoing the vat they can reclaim on diesel to buy fleets of hybrid company cars

I doubt they are including the Land Cruiser and Hilux in that which both only got new diesel engines last year (Toyota built). Same goes for the Proace.

Diesel sales have diminished quickly enough in their cars apart from that and the CHR has been a relative sales success without diesel. Lexus haven't been able to compete here though.

rex-x · 06-03-2018 12:30AM

PaddyCar wrote: »

I can get the fault turned off before bringing it in. My indy will replace with a 2nd hand egr for €400. Just wondering if I'm better keeping away from the emissions fix altogether and just getting it replaced?

Dont get a 2nd hand egr for it, you will be paying to get it replaced very soon again. Brand new is unfortunately the only way to fix, about 800 - 1k depending

zilog_jones · 06-03-2018 10:31AM

Casati wrote: »

That’s a risky move imo, they are cutting themselves out of 40%+ of potential sales. Can’t imagine a Landcruiser hybrid doing great in the sales charts or companies forgoing the vat they can reclaim on diesel to buy fleets of hybrid company cars

You didn't even make it to the second paragraph? :rolleyes:

While its commercial vehicles such as the Land Cruiser and the Hi-Lux pick-up will retain diesel engines, it means the end of the road for diesel versions of popular passenger cars such as the Corolla, Auris, Avensis and RAV4.

Casati · 06-03-2018 10:40AM

zilog_jones wrote: »

You didn't even make it to the second paragraph? :rolleyes:

There is a 7 seater Landcruiser sitting outside my door at the moment, ie it’s a car and not a commercial. You are probably right though and once they realize that this will kill sales short term they will likely have all sort of exceptions

SmithySeller · 06-03-2018 12:05PM

1jcdub wrote: »

If you get the emission fix done you'll have 2 years warranty on all emission components including egr dpf etc. Something to weigh up..

Is this definitely the case? I have a 2012 1.6 Golf and have pretty much ignored the letter to date. If so does it need a full VW Service history? Thanks

Ignore, Google sorted me out...

zilog_jones · 06-03-2018 03:10PM

Casati wrote: »

There is a 7 seater Landcruiser sitting outside my door at the moment, ie it’s a car and not a commercial. You are probably right though and once they realize that this will kill sales short term they will likely have all sort of exceptions

Oh, I didn't even consider the possibility of a passenger Land Cruiser - sales must be very low in Ireland. There currently is no hybrid version of this in any market, but maybe things will change with the next generation (whenever that happens).

Zubeneschamali · 06-03-2018 05:49PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Toyota to stop selling diesel passenger cars across Europe at the end of the year...

I'm surprised they were able to sell any of their diesels this year, woeful yokes.

Henry Ford III · 13-03-2018 09:13PM

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/92893/vw-emissions-scandal-recalls-compensation-is-your-car-affected-latest-news?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpress_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

Toyotafanboi · 13-03-2018 09:43PM

I often wonder if the fuel effiecency drops after the update are related to the resetting of the ECU. Before the update, many of these cars have had up to 9 years and hundreds of thousands of kms to self learn driving styles etc, where as a freshly "wiped" ECU will be running a factory map until it re-self learns how to optimise itself. It may not be the case but I'd be curious to see does it come back around.

As for being shocked that the update didn't really reduce NoX that much, did anyone actually think the update would fix the issue? If it were that easy they'd never have done it in the first place.

sightband · 13-03-2018 09:48PM

These c*nts are sending me letters every quarter or so offering collection, pick up and courtesy car blah blah. Is there any hope for European customers, obviously I won’t be updating but are there any options or hope of recourse?

colm_mcm · 13-03-2018 09:49PM

Well given that the German government seem to have helped them out, it’s unlikely.

Seth Brundle · 13-03-2018 09:51PM

sightband wrote: »

These c*nts are sending me letters every quarter or so offering collection, pick up and courtesy car blah blah. Is there any hope for European customers, obviously I won’t be updating but are there any options or hope of recourse?

What kind of recourse? Undo the “fix”? Not hope of that!
Fix a broken EGR or something else that happened as a result of the “fix”? A slight maybe.

colm_mcm · 13-03-2018 09:52PM

I think he’s thinking of US style recourse.

sightband · 13-03-2018 09:55PM

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think he’s thinking of US style recourse.

Exactly what I’m thinking. What’s going on with civil suits? You hear about it from time to time, firms taking on a heap of VW owners

CJhaughey · 13-03-2018 10:05PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I often wonder if the fuel effiecency drops after the update are related to the resetting of the ECU. Before the update, many of these cars have had up to 9 years and hundreds of thousands of kms to self learn driving styles etc, where as a freshly "wiped" ECU will be running a factory map until it re-self learns how to optimise itself. It may not be the case but I'd be curious to see does it come back around.

As for being shocked that the update didn't really reduce NoX that much, did anyone actually think the update would fix the issue? If it were that easy they'd never have done it in the first place.

From my understanding the new mapping involves a lot more injection events than previously, in other words the injectors will be doing 6 times as much work as previously.
Not a recipe for longevity despite the 2yr warranty extension on *fixed* vehicles.

Seth Brundle · 13-03-2018 10:20PM

sightband wrote: »

Exactly what I’m thinking. What’s going on with civil suits? You hear about it from time to time, firms taking on a heap of VW owners

In terms of getting compensation, what would you be compensated for? VWs are selling well thanks to the stupid public so resale values would be decent. Fuel consumption increase? Prove it!

Edit: Also we don’t have class actions like in the US.

Seth Brundle · 13-03-2018 10:21PM

CJhaughey wrote: »

From my understanding the new mapping involves a lot more injection events than previously, in other words the injectors will be doing 6 times as much work as previously.
Not a recipe for longevity despite the 2yr warranty extension on *fixed* vehicles.

Wouldn’t that therefore mean six times the fuel is used (approx depending on the mix)?

CJhaughey · 13-03-2018 11:30PM

kbannon wrote: »

Wouldn’t that therefore mean six times the fuel is used (approx depending on the mix)?

No the injection events are times so milliseconds or fractions thereof rather than one long event.

zilog_jones · 14-03-2018 10:44AM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I often wonder if the fuel effiecency drops after the update are related to the resetting of the ECU. Before the update, many of these cars have had up to 9 years and hundreds of thousands of kms to self learn driving styles etc, where as a freshly "wiped" ECU will be running a factory map until it re-self learns how to optimise itself. It may not be the case but I'd be curious to see does it come back around.

Car batteries don't last 9 years, so the ECUs had probably already been reset at some stage on the older examples. Also, the memory on these things is not going to be that big - they will not store years of historical data outside of the fault log (assuming not cleared). They are fairly rudimentary computers. It only takes a day or two for the ECU to re-learn things after a reset.

sightband · 14-03-2018 03:18PM

kbannon wrote: »

In terms of getting compensation, what would you be compensated for? VWs are selling well thanks to the stupid public so resale values would be decent. Fuel consumption increase? Prove it!

Edit: Also we don’t have class actions like in the US.

were the payouts in the US not down to a drop in value? Also, just surmising, but would there not be some grounds for compensation after purchasing something which isn't as advertised?

Found this earlier, wonder how they are getting on, be interesting to know.

http://www.odwyersolicitors.ie/volkswagen-vw-emissions-claims/

Just for the record, I care very little about this at this stage and expect nothing, I'm just curious about the whole European side of things for customers. I might drop them details and see if I get any response.

Seth Brundle · 15-03-2018 10:15AM

sightband wrote: »

were the payouts in the US not down to a drop in value? Also, just surmising, but would there not be some grounds for compensation after purchasing something which isn't as advertised?

Found this earlier, wonder how they are getting on, be interesting to know.

http://www.odwyersolicitors.ie/volkswagen-vw-emissions-claims/

Just for the record, I care very little about this at this stage and expect nothing, I'm just curious about the whole European side of things for customers. I might drop them details and see if I get any response.

But in the US they where they have proper emissions testing, the effect of the fix would potentially mean that owners would not pass the tests, etc so there was a resale impact.
Thanks to the Germans (coincidentally), the tests in the EU aren't as tough and don't test for NOx.
As a result, the resale value of VWs in the EU has remained reasonably strong.
The "fix" has resulted apparently in many owners finding new problems with their cars such as the EGR valve going. VW deny (and we know how honest they are :rolleyes:) that the "fix" caused the new damage but in some cases have offered goodwill repairs.
I can't see how O'Dwyer solicitors can claim for compensation over here (compensate for what exactly?). The line that they paid the American owners so we should get money surely isn't good enough.

Cookie_Monster · 15-03-2018 08:18PM

the repairs, they do nothing...

http://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/diesel-volkswagens-still-breaking-gas-limits-after-being-repaired/
Still way over the Nox limit and now burn more fuel!

Seth Brundle · 15-03-2018 08:51PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the repairs, they do nothing...

I wouldn’t say that they do nothing, just nothing positive.
VW on the whole in Europe survived the storm of lying to their customers and their brands. The lying toerags achieved record sales in 2017. Their “fix” was purely a PR stunt.
And it worked brilliantly!

grogi · 15-03-2018 10:40PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the repairs, they do nothing...

http://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/diesel-volkswagens-still-breaking-gas-limits-after-being-repaired/
Still way over the Nox limit and now burn more fuel!

How much over the limit was the car before the fix?

Would you say that a drop from 5000% to 400% would be a significant improvement...?!

Cookie_Monster · 16-03-2018 12:43AM

grogi wrote: »

Would you say that a drop from 5000% to 400% would be a significant improvement...?!

no, it's still not fixed nor legal so totally pointless... either get a proper fix or don't bother until you have one and try and fool customers again.

grogi · 16-03-2018 12:44AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, it's still not fixed nor legal so totally pointless... either get a proper fix or don't bother until you have one and try and fool customers again.

Originally you claimed the fix does nothing.

What's more, 99% customers didn't and still doesn't care at all about emissions unless the government taxes the hell out of them. So they really weren't fooled at all.

Cookie_Monster · 16-03-2018 12:49AM

grogi wrote: »

Originally you claimed the fix does nothing.

oh, give over :rolleyes:

it's a take on a well known meme...

VW emissions software update - disaster

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