What IS the future of Europe?

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 12:34AM #1

Its something you hear all the time, "this could affect the future of Europe", and twenty different variations of it.

But what I have yet to hear is any kind of stated intent on the actual future of Europe.

What is it?

It seems so vague and poorly articulated, all about "now" while ignoring "later".

So where do you think Europe will be in 10 years, what is the actual future you see?

Heres a quicky.......brexit will happen and borders will go up in Ireland. Rather than anything actually happening, Ireland and the UK will begin to stagnate. The rest of Europe will stagnate too, but just take a bit longer to get there.

With the rise and establishment of the far-right, immigration will be completely shut down, and might actually see "deportations" on a large scale. Fortress Europe will come about, and politics sides with growing resentment of people as unemployment rises.

Another big EU member will leave (looking at you tonight, Italy), and the weaker countries will be "coerced" into remaining by a more militarily minded Germany.

Will see an Anglo-American alliance of sorts as protectionism becomes the name of the game for the future world.

Some developing countries will go to war on a large scale (much bigger than Syria), and we'll have proxy wars develop backed by either the Russians, the german-absorbed EU (the German Union?), or the anglo alliance.

We'll stumble along and suffer with the EU, eventually being one of the last to join the anglo American alliance

Or in other words, not too bright an outlook in the next 10 years.

Can anyone give a reasonably bright outlook at all, beyond pure hope, of course?

Outlaw Pete · 05-03-2018 12:37AM

More touring I expect. They play the Olympia Sep 12th.

Ulysses Gaze · 05-03-2018 12:39AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

More touring I expect. They play the Olympia Sep 12th.

Joey Tempest has still got it....

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 12:43AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

More touring I expect. They play the Olympia Sep 12th.

I thought they were long dead! What will all the constant jumping and stuff

professore · 05-03-2018 12:58AM

drillyeye wrote: »

Heres a quicky.......brexit will happen and borders will go up in Ireland. Rather than anything actually happening, Ireland and the UK will begin to stagnate. The rest of Europe will stagnate too, but just take a bit longer to get there.

Most of southern Europe has been stagnant for decades already. I see Germany calling all the shots and imposing ever stricter and bureaucratic laws. Gender and race quotas for everything. Meltdown of the welfare state. The EU will fall apart messily and quickly in the next. 5-10 years. The UK to boom after a recession post brexit by employing less regulation, selective immigration and lower taxes coupled with the EU allowing them de facto access to the single market.

Mezcita · 05-03-2018 01:03AM

professore wrote: »

Most of southern Europe has been stagnant for decades already. I see Germany calling all the shots and imposing ever stricter and bureaucratic laws. Gender and race quotas for everything. Meltdown of the welfare state. The EU will fall apart messily and quickly in the next. 5-10 years. The UK to boom after a recession post brexit by employing less regulation, selective immigration and lower taxes coupled with the EU allowing them de facto access to the single market.

Tell me another story I'm kind of sleepy.

Casualsingby · 05-03-2018 01:08AM

On the subject of illegals coming in to Europe, the main point which is overlooked is western ie USA UK in particular interference in these countries. The illegal war in Iraq destabilised the entire region and left a vacuum for the unrest. Which spread throughout the region, which lead to the "Arab spring“ which lead to the situation in Syria which lead to hundreds of thousands coming to Europe.

On the second front. Interfering in Libya, lead to the downfall of Gaddafi, he ruled with an iron fist, had deals with Europe with stop boats leaving from the Libyan coast. Now its a no man's land, people in central Africa leave in their droves to Libya and up to the coast with no one stopping them.

So America and UK are the culprits for what has transpired, France too for their bombing of Libya. If these countries would stop starting wars, there wouldn't be so many displaced people coming in to Europe. If the Iraq war didn't happen, neither would half of the shyt that transpired since would have.

I'm not saying Saddam or gaddafi were good people but their countries are a lawless bloodbath since they left. Libya never gets a mention on the news since yet it's like the wild wild west. So yeah stop your illegal wars UK and USA and the world will be more stable. They are entirely to blame for the massive crap.

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:09AM

professore wrote: »

Most of southern Europe has been stagnant for decades already. I see Germany calling all the shots and imposing ever stricter and bureaucratic laws. Gender and race quotas for everything. Meltdown of the welfare state. The EU will fall apart messily and quickly in the next. 5-10 years. The UK to boom after a recession post brexit by employing less regulation, selective immigration and lower taxes coupled with the EU allowing them de facto access to the single market.

We're thinking the same time frame anyway. I'll make an additions/changes.

Germany will (is!) call(ing) all the shots for a fractured Europe, but there will be a shift from pure economic power to include more military muscle too. Third times a charm!

And yeah, I can see the UK doing pretty well after a trough, through more lenient economic measures, not based on immigration at all, but based on an alignment with protectionist-driven American alliance.

The german EU will clash more and more the anglo alliance. Again, third times a charm!

The rest of the world will drop into chaos in the middle of it all

Mr. Incognito · 05-03-2018 01:11AM

Britains economy will be destroyed by brexit.

The result will be a tightening European federal state in the next forty years which when integrated will become the next superpower sans britain which will probably become cheap manual labour

Mtx · 05-03-2018 01:12AM

A place plagued by Islamic terrorism on a scale we haven't seen before.

Jim Gazebo · 05-03-2018 01:12AM

Irelandless

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:13AM

Casualsingby wrote: »

On the subject of illegals coming in to Europe, the main point which is overlooked is western ie USA UK in particular interference in these countries. The illegal war in Iraq destabilised the entire region and left a vacuum for the unrest. Which spread throughout the region, which lead to the "Arab spring“ which lead to the situation in Syria which lead to hundreds of thousands coming to Europe.

On the second front. Interfering in Libya, lead to the downfall of Gaddafi, he ruled with an iron fist, had deals with Europe with stop boats leaving from the Libyan coast. Now its a no man's land, people in central Africa leave in their droves to Libya and up to the coast with no one stopping them.

So America and UK are the culprits for what has transpired, France too for their bombing of Libya. If these countries would stop starting wars, there wouldn't be so many displaced people coming in to Europe. If the Iraq war didn't happen, neither would half of the shyt that transpired since would have.

I'm not saying Saddam or gaddafi were good people but their countries are a lawless bloodbath since they left. Libya never gets a mention on the news since yet it's like the wild wild west. So yeah stop your illegal wars UK and USA and the world will be more stable. They are entirely to blame for all the whinging people do about immigrants from the middle east and Africa.

I agree, but theres no point crying over spilled milk. Its a done thing.

The rest of the world, I predict, will begin to seriously deteriorate while the big boys start going at each other. And on immigration, once that is stopped (whatever form that takes), that's the end of it, never happening again. We'll look back on these years as some weird dream, where people could travel freely even on holidays!

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:16AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Britains economy will be destroyed by brexit.

The result will be a tightening European federal state in the next forty years which when integrated will become the next superpower sans britain which will probably become cheap manual labour

The powers that be in Britain aren't stupid enough to allow that to happen, I put good money on them joining with America and making a good go of it. Look at Trumps steel tax being bandied around, its only a matter of time before protectionism kicks in big time.

VERY likely is that we will join that alliance after a while faffing around in the EU clueless. Quite easy to draw a line on the global map then!

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:17AM

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Irelandless

We'll be joined the hip with the UK within 10 years, no doubt. The EU will kick up a stink in the meantime about our intentions, but when the big multinationals "repatriate" to an anglo alliance, we'll be left with our dicks swinging and nothing to lose.

Casualsingby · 05-03-2018 01:22AM

drillyeye wrote: »

The powers that be in Britain aren't stupid enough to allow that to happen, I put good money on them joining with America and making a good go of it. Look at Trumps steel tax being bandied around, its only a matter of time before protectionism kicks in big time.

VERY likely is that we will join that alliance after a while faffing around in the EU clueless. Quite easy to draw a line on the global map then!

The UK isn't a super power anymore and doesn't have the same clout as the USA. What do you mean by join together? USA under trump doesn't care about Britain. And I thought brexit was all about going on their own, why would they want to be America's little friend who follows what they say?

J Mysterio · 05-03-2018 01:24AM

drillyeye wrote: »

The powers that be in Britain aren't stupid enough to allow that to happen, I put good money on them joining with America and making a good go of it. Look at Trumps steel tax being bandied around, its only a matter of time before protectionism kicks in big time.

VERY likely is that we will join that alliance after a while faffing around in the EU clueless. Quite easy to draw a line on the global map then!

What makes you think the US will give the UK favourable trade agreements? They have already told them they must accept substandard food. The steel and aluminium tarrifs are a terrible result for their nearest neighbour and ally, Canada. For the Trump administration, a good deal is you get screwed, I win. It implausible.

More likely Britain goes into economic meltdown and seeks to rejoin the EU in 5-10 years. Also, the powers that be in the UK have proven themselves to be very stupid indeed.

dxhound2005 · 05-03-2018 01:24AM

A few years ago the people on the internet told me to convert my money into Danish and South African currency because the Euro was going to collapse. What am I supposed to do now?

J Mysterio · 05-03-2018 01:26AM

drillyeye wrote: »

We'll be joined the hip with the UK within 10 years, no doubt. The EU will kick up a stink in the meantime about our intentions, but when the big multinationals "repatriate" to an anglo alliance, we'll be left with our dicks swinging and nothing to lose.

0 (zero) chance of this.

Casualsingby · 05-03-2018 01:26AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A few years ago the people on the internet told me to convert my money into Danish and South African currency because the Euro was going to collapse. What am I supposed to do now?

Unrelated to thread but I once worked with a white South African who told me when Nelson Mandela dies it will be start of ww3 and he will return home to fight that day. They are crazy people in rl too lol

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:31AM

J Mysterio wrote: »

What makes you think the US will give the UK favourable trade agreements? They have already told them they must accept substandard food. The steel and aluminium tarrifs are a terrible result for their nearest neighbour and ally, Canada. For the Trump administration, a good deal is you get screwed, I win. It implausible.

More likely Britain goes into economic meltdown and seeks to rejoin the EU in 5-10 years. Also, the powers that be in the UK have proven themselves to be very stupid indeed.

Its only implausible if measured against the CURRENT rules of the game.

Protectionism, such as the proposed steel tax, changes the rules of the game.

In isolation, the united states can weather competing tax tariffs as the game gathers pace, but they will be much more likely to try form alliances, and the uk, new and single and looking for a hookup, will be more than willing.

They'll do well out of it by changing the rules of economic trade, and the german EU will play their own version, bringing them into conflict with each other eventually.

As for Canada, I can see them being absorbed unwillingly into a trade alliance with the americans.

Just think of it as a map, does Canada+ EU make more sense than Canada+united states? And does English speaking, American multinational land (aka Ireland) make more sense +EU, or +UK and United states?

CarlosHarpic · 05-03-2018 01:33AM

Third world islamic ****hole in the west.

Still Europe in the east.

Ones who caused it living in heavily guarded gated communities telling the rest of us to deal with it.

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:34AM

J Mysterio wrote: »

0 (zero) chance of this.

Our economy is based significantly on American companies. America is rumbling about repatriation of said companies. UK and USA are best mates (relatively speaking). There are hints of protectionism all over the shop.

Therefore I say that UK and Ireland will eventually be joined together economically, and that we will leave the EU.

Theres a flow of logic at least.

Whats your logic "0 chance"?

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:36AM

Casualsingby wrote: »

Unrelated to thread but I once worked with a white South African who told me when Nelson Mandela dies it will be start of ww3 and he will return home to fight that day. They are crazy people in rl too lol

Well I wouldn't be too pushed about some guy dying somewhere in africa, versus the largest political blocs in the world getting pissed with each other.

Casualsingby · 05-03-2018 01:41AM

drillyeye wrote: »

The powers that be in Britain aren't stupid enough to allow that to happen, I put good money on them joining with America and making a good go of it. Look at Trumps steel tax being bandied around, its only a matter of time before protectionism kicks in big time.

VERY likely is that we will join that alliance after a while faffing around in the EU clueless. Quite easy to draw a line on the global map then!

The UK isn't a super power anymore and doesn't have the same clout as the USA. What do you mean by join together? USA under trump doesn't care about Britain. And I thought brexit was all about going on their own, why would they want to be America's little friend who follows what they say?

Its Purge Time · 05-03-2018 01:46AM

Casualsingby wrote: »

Unrelated to thread but I once worked with a white South African who told me when Nelson Mandela dies it will be start of ww3 and he will return home to fight that day. They are crazy people in rl too lol

The genius Africans have decided to seize white owned land (worked so well in Zimbabwe). He might be right.

CarlosHarpic wrote: »

Third world islamic ****hole in the west.

Still Europe in the east.

Ones who caused it living in heavily guarded gated communities telling the rest of us to deal with it.

This. And they'll still call us racists for not enjoying the exciting New Europe.

dxhound2005 · 05-03-2018 01:46AM

The EU 27 are pushing for a United Ireland. When it happens, thousands of NI inhabitants will repatriate themselves to the Mainland. Scotland will secede from the UK and rejoin the EU. Interesting times ahead in this part of the world.

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:48AM

Casualsingby wrote: »

The UK isn't a super power anymore and doesn't have the same clout as the USA. What do you mean by join together? USA under trump doesn't care about Britain. And I thought brexit was all about going on their own, why would they want to be America's little friend who follows what they say?

It certainly isn't a military superpower, but the wealth of Britain cant be shooed away, and its not just GDP but the "stored" capital of the old empire. Not to mention its heavy influence in many parts of the world.

They wont go it on their own for the same reason the USA wont go it on their own, they'll forge their own links, and those links will be hardened by the antagonism of competing groups such as the EU.

There is no way the UK are just going to isolate themselves forever, its just not going to happen. The same way we cant distance ourselves from their choices and influence.

In a sequence of events, heres one to consider, that after the UK and USA have their agreements made, there will be a f*ck ton of pressure put on Ireland via the multinationals that our economy subsists upon, and we'll be coerced into joining their new group too. What leverage does the EU have over us??

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:49AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The EU 27 are pushing for a United Ireland. When it happens, thousands of NI inhabitants will repatriate themselves to the Mainland. Scotland will secede from the UK and rejoin the EU. Interesting times ahead in this part of the world.

Don't know about the whole Ireland thing, but these next 10 years are going to bring massive changes to the global map, one way or the other.

Tuco88 · 05-03-2018 01:50AM

The UK will take dip after Brexit but not for long, remember this is pound sterling ol Britannia.

How this a boarder not boarder works will be fun. Keep an eye on Scottish movement (no eu cash brexit bill to be paid) in 5-10 years I think they will go it was very close last time.

Its Purge Time · 05-03-2018 01:50AM

drillyeye wrote: »

In a sequence of events, heres one to consider, that after the UK and USA have their agreements made, there will be a f*ck ton of pressure put on Ireland via the multinationals that our economy subsists upon, and we'll be coerced into joining their new group too. What leverage does the EU have over us??

We will go where the money and jobs are. Fck the EU.

drillyeye · 05-03-2018 01:55AM

Its Purge Time wrote: »

We will go where the money and jobs are. Fck the EU.

And that, at the end of the day, is what its all about. And the EU has far less to "offer" us than the United states/UK.

For all the countless hours of guff we'll suffer on television for years about borders and who said that and what it might entail and blah blah blah.........it really is that fecking simple!

What IS the future of Europe?

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