Affair / Sexual chemistry

professore · 03-03-2018 11:16PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bizarre thread. We've been telling stories of affairs since we as a species have been telling stories. It is a dominant theme throughout every culture and so many major narratives (even the opening scene of the Táin) mention it.

Monogamy has not been the norm for most of human history, and marriage as we know it is only a few centuries old (ie marrying for love). Monogamy makes a lot of sense from a societal point of view but there has always been a push back against it.

While I don't think the OP is necessarily right, it's her life to live. The anger and vehemence of some of the replies are really weird, imo. Why does anyone else care who she has in her bed, her life or her heart? Who makes anyone else her judge?

While I don't agree with her actions, I haven't called her the spawn of Satan either. Having said that people are entitled to their opinions.

In my experience people who say don't be so judgemental are super judgemental themselves.

professore · 03-03-2018 11:18PM

If you struggle with monogamy, don't get married. Bang all you want then. Marriage is literally a promise to be monogamous. It's not rocket science.

Obi_Wan_Kenobi · 03-03-2018 11:18PM

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

For anyone still now sure have a look at the top posts.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/

Dripping with misogyny.

Just clicked on the first link I saw in there
https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/81qxe9/i_****ed_up_royally/?st=jebxhj9m&sh=4d4a60e3

Yeah dripping with misogyny !! what a hateful sexist pig!

Or maybe he gets good advice on how to move on with his life.

dr.fuzzenstein · 03-03-2018 11:53PM

professore wrote: »

If you struggle with monogamy, don't get married. Bang all you want then. Marriage is literally a promise to be monogamous. It's not rocket science.

And yet people sleep around. Whatcha gonna do, ey?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 03-03-2018 11:59PM

Struggle with monogamy doesn't mean fail at monogamy either. If it was that feckin easy they wouldn't have a whole big vow ceremony about it. They don't put in the wedding vows "I promise not to get abducted by aliens, nor murder you with a pencil".

Pluto Planet · 04-03-2018 12:02AM

Avery Flat Sweater wrote: »

Struggle with monogamy doesn't mean fail at monogamy either. If it was that feckin easy they wouldn't have a whole big vow ceremony about it. They don't put in the wedding vows "I promise not to get abducted by aliens, nor murder you with a pencil".

Exactly the point, marriage was invented as people knew it was not natural to people to only have sex with one other person for the rest of there life. They thought a contract was the solution, they even invented Gods and commandments to try and scare people into honouring the contract

professore · 04-03-2018 12:15AM

Pluto Planet wrote: »

Exactly the point, marriage was invented as people knew it was not natural to people to only have sex with one other person for the rest of there life. They thought a contract was the solution, they even invented Gods and commandments to try and scare people into honouring the contract

Yeah like how they lock people away for 20 years for murder. It's a natural human impulse, survival of the fittest, people have been killing each other since the dawn of time.

dr.fuzzenstein · 04-03-2018 12:19AM

professore wrote: »

Yeah like how they lock people away for 20 years for murder. It's a natural human impulse, survival of the fittest, people have been killing each other since the dawn of time.

And yet people sleep around. Whatcha gonna do, ey?

04-03-2018 10:31AM

up for anything wrote: »

The world is full of people who struggle with monogamy. If they say they don't they're either in the first year or so of a new relationship or they're lying.

up for anything wrote: »

I'm going on the experience of a friend and her friends -

No, you're right, it's definitely us and not your post

Pluto Planet · 04-03-2018 10:53AM

I think for most people monogomy kills their spirit slowly but surely. It makes people wilt, people don't even realise it because it's the norm. It's like tying up a dog out the back garden, it's spirit slowly dies. The dog needs to be out in fields running around exploring.

_Kaiser_ · 04-03-2018 11:32AM

This thread is like something from decades ago with some posters outraged at the idea of anything but serial monogamy.. it's just missing yer one from Game of Thrones chanting "shame" :rolleyes:

The reality is that relationships take constant work and effort from both sides. The biggest element to this is communication, but sex and intimacy is a key component too if it's to be anything more than a friendship really.
If any of these are missing, or there's significant differences in priorities, then a relationship is in trouble IMO.

"Just leave then!" is a simplistic answer and doesn't factor in the realities of kids, a mortgage, low incomes, or indeed the desire of some to remain in that relationship regardless (fear of being single, what the family/others may think etc). People also change as they get older and find the person they've been with all those years is not what they want anymore, but again the realities may limit their options. There's also something to be said against the idea of settling down in life too early/young as (like the OP) you may feel like you've "missed out" as you get older, especially with these other day-to-day stresses to deal with.

I'd fully believe that there is a lot more discreet cheating/affairs going on than some might like to think, and while some of these may just be boredom that are harder to justify, there's probably a lot more where one/both are just lonely and/or trapped by circumstance.

Pluto Planet · 04-03-2018 11:53AM

The standard boards doctrine is that one should break up if stuck in a sexless marriage where you have kids, as it has a worse effect on the kids to stay.

These are the type of people who are quick to shout "Generalisation" when it suits, seemingly oblivious to the generalisations they make themselves. In some scenarios it might be worse, in others not so, you have to take each case on it's own merits.

Hiitsme · 04-03-2018 12:43PM

Hi OP, I don't know if you are still reading but I had to reply. I was you 8-10 years ago. I posted a very similar thread on another forum. Like you, I received a few sympathic replies, however, the majority of posters deemed me a troll, called me immature and selfish, a slut and most cruelly, a bad Mum. I quickly realised most posters had absolutely no understanding or didn't want to know, so all they could do was attack me.

I married my first boyfriend and never had another relationship. That was the norm in my family and it was expected of me. After many years of marriage I ended up feeling I had missed out on an important part of life because I never had the experience of other relationships.

Like you, I had a good marriage and my husband was a decent man. I could not understand why I had feelings for another man. Try as I may, these feelings and fantasies would not go away. The sexual chemistry between us was electric - this longing went on for years (he was also married). In the end, nothing happened. We discussed it and through a lot of tears, he was the one who said even though he desired me for years (loved me) he would not cheat on his wife and he would not betray my husband.

I was so distraught I sought counselling. It saved me. It unravelled everything. Counselling highlighted what was wrong in my life/marriage. I was seeking the attention of another man because my marriage was not right. I wasn't aware of this. I thought I had the perfect marriage but I was in denial. Counselling awoke me to what was really going on. My husband and I are now in couple counselling trying to address our issues.

Please consider counselling before you embark on anything. It is the best money you will ever spend on yourself. You will find your true self and you will come out stronger. Seek solo counselling first and you can share all your pain, grief, fantasies, desires - in a safe place without judgement and criticism. Then you can seek couple counselling.

I would urge you to get a recommendation from your GP for a counsellor/psychotherapist - you want someone good and experienced. Or if you PM me I can recommend my counsellor if you live in Dublin.

I have huge empathy for you because I know what you are going through. I wish you all the best. Take care x

Pluto Planet · 04-03-2018 01:04PM

Hiitsme wrote: »

Hi OP, I don't know if you are still reading but I had to reply. I was you 8-10 years ago. I posted a very similar thread on another forum. Like you, I received a few sympathic replies, however, the majority of posters deemed me a troll, called me immature and selfish, a slut and most cruelly, a bad Mum. I quickly realised most posters had absolutely no understanding or didn't want to know, so all they could do was attack me.

I married my first boyfriend and never had another relationship. That was the norm in my family and it was expected of me. After many years of marriage I ended up feeling I had missed out on an important part of life because I never had the experience of other relationships.

Like you, I had a good marriage and my husband was a decent man. I could not understand why I had feelings for another man. Try as I may, these feelings and fantasies would not go away. The sexual chemistry between us was electric - this longing went on for years (he was also married). In the end, nothing happened. We discussed it and through a lot of tears, he was the one who said even though he desired me for years (loved me) he would not cheat on his wife and he would not betray my husband.

I was so distraught I sought counselling. It saved me. It unravelled everything. Counselling highlighted what was wrong in my life/marriage. I was seeking the attention of another man because my marriage was not right. I wasn't aware of this. I thought I had the perfect marriage but I was in denial. Counselling awoke me to what was really going on. My husband and I are now in couple counselling trying to address our issues.

Please consider counselling before you embark on anything. It is the best money you will ever spend on yourself. You will find your true self and you will come out stronger. Seek solo counselling first and you can share all your pain, grief, fantasies, desires - in a safe place without judgement and criticism. Then you can seek couple counselling.

I would urge you to get a recommendation from your GP for a counsellor/psychotherapist - you want someone good and experienced. Or if you PM me I can recommend my counsellor if you live in Dublin.

I have huge empathy for you because I know what you are going through. I wish you all the best. Take care x

Or maybe there was nothing wrong with your marriage, maybe it's simply not normal for two people to maintain sexual attraction and chemistry long term.

There is a good chance in my opinion that you are wasting your time and money in counselling. No amount of talking with a counsellor can bring back sexual attraction. I think many counsellors are simply deluded as to the true nature of sexual attraction.

Your story and millions of others around the world, go untold and are kept hidden. This is the pain caused by trying to artificially engineer society to act and believe that monogomy is normal and to be celebrated.

Hiitsme · 04-03-2018 01:16PM

Thanks for that. I didn't realise the OP had taken that road, the thread is so long I missed it trying to speed read. She might still consider counselling though.

Hiitsme · 04-03-2018 01:28PM

Pluto Planet wrote: »

Or maybe there was nothing wrong with your marriage, maybe it's simply not normal for two people to maintain sexual attraction and chemistry long term.

There is a good chance in my opinion that you are wasting your time and money in counselling. No amount of talking with a counsellor can bring back sexual attraction. I think many counsellors are simply deluded as to the true nature of sexual attraction.

Your story and millions of others around the world, go untold and are kept hidden. This is the pain caused by trying to artificially engineer society to act and believe that monogomy is normal and to be celebrated.

I think counsellors are very much aware, however, they are possibly trying to keep the family unit together, for as long as possible, for the sake of the children involved. That can only be a good thing.

Couple counselling with my husband has brought awareness for both of us, it has brought everything out in the open, everything has been discussed. My husband was totally unaware of what I was going through. We love each other but are we "in love" and still sexually attracted to each other after all these years together ? Sadly no. But we are fighting to keep the family unit and stay together for the sake of our children.

04-03-2018 01:30PM

Hiitsme wrote: »

I think counsellors are very much aware, however, they are possibly trying to keep the family unit together, for as long as possible, for the sake of the children involved. That can only be a good thing.

Couple counselling with my husband has brought awareness for both of us, it has brought everything out in the open, everything has been discussed. My husband was totally unaware of what I was going through. We love each other but are we "in love" and still sexually attracted to each other after all these years together ? Sadly no. But we are fighting to keep the family unit and stay together for the sake of our children.

Good luck, hope it works out for ye. Be kind to yourself and your husband, we are all only human.

Hiitsme · 04-03-2018 01:47PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good luck, hope it works out for ye. Be kind to yourself and your husband, we are all only human.

Thank you. I appreciate that x

professore · 04-03-2018 02:19PM

Hiitsme wrote: »

I think counsellors are very much aware, however, they are possibly trying to keep the family unit together, for as long as possible, for the sake of the children involved. That can only be a good thing.

Couple counselling with my husband has brought awareness for both of us, it has brought everything out in the open, everything has been discussed. My husband was totally unaware of what I was going through. We love each other but are we "in love" and still sexually attracted to each other after all these years together ? Sadly no. But we are fighting to keep the family unit and stay together for the sake of our children.

That's a HUGE problem right there in bold. Why didn't you tell him? I bet you said everything was great. Maybe he was bored silly himself? The narrative nowadays is all about women's happiness. Well guess what, a lot of men are unhappy too.

To be quite honest, your story didn't sound like there was anything particularly wrong with you or him, except you wanted some passion and excitement. Some people don't want that, all they want is stability and predictability. Is that enough reason to go and cheat and break up a family over? In my opinion no.

Would I like more passion and excitement in my life? I sure would. My wife is different in that regard, or at least that's what she tells me.

04-03-2018 02:22PM

professore wrote: »

That's a HUGE problem right there in bold. Why didn't you tell him? I bet you said everything was great. Maybe he was bored silly himself? The narrative nowadays is all about women's happiness. Well guess what, a lot of men are unhappy too.

To be quite honest, your story didn't sound like there was anything particularly wrong with you or him, except you wanted some passion and excitement. Some people don't want that, all they want is stability and predictability. Is that enough reason to go and cheat and break up a family over? In my opinion no.

Would I like more passion and excitement in my life? I sure would. My wife is different in that regard, or at least that's what she tells me.

I think the point of her story was she didn't know herself either

Hiitsme · 04-03-2018 02:37PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I think the point of her story was she didn't know herself either

Yes, exactly. However, I did tell my husband I was desperately unhappy. I told him that on a couple of occasions when I had alcohol consumed. He could see I was engaging in self destructive behaviour (the alcohol was becoming a crutch) but he didn't know how to help me. He wouldn't talk about it, he buried his head in the sand and tried to pretend everything was fine. I didn't know how to help myself either. I knew my mental health was compromised. Seeking professional help was the best decision I made. My wonderful counsellor pulled me back from the brink.

professore · 04-03-2018 03:06PM

Hiitsme wrote: »

Yes, exactly. However, I did tell my husband I was desperately unhappy. I told him that on a couple of occasions when I had alcohol consumed. He could see I was engaging in self destructive behaviour (the alcohol was becoming a crutch) but he didn't know how to help me. He wouldn't talk about it, he buried his head in the sand and tried to pretend everything was fine. I didn't know how to help myself either. I knew my mental health was compromised. Seeking professional help was the best decision I made. My wonderful counsellor pulled me back from the brink.

That's a shame and a missed opportunity on his behalf . I would hope my wife would be as open as you were. Good for you that you did something yourself about it.

Hiitsme · 04-03-2018 03:20PM

professore wrote: »

That's a shame and a missed opportunity on his behalf . I would hope my wife would be as open as you were. Good for you that you did something yourself about it.

Some subjects are SO painful they are incredibly hard to discuss. This was one of those times. I couldn't express myself properly and my husband didn't want to hear it. He wasn't being deliberately cruel, he was afraid I would leave him. In his mind, if it wasn't talked about, it wasn't reality. This is the real benefit of counselling. The counsellor is the facilitator of the hard discussions. When my husband could not speak, our counsellor spoke on his behalf until my husband was able to find his voice and start engaging in the process again.

youtube! · 04-03-2018 04:18PM

OP you should listen on youtube to Jordan Peterson, a clinical Psychologist this guy has incredible insights as to the ways of the human mind and explains stuff really well. One of the things I took from a lecture he did was that when you give in to temptation that you end up becoming the person you don't want to be. It's because you know that it is inherently wrong that you even question it yourself.

The actual physiological manifestation of this process is a hit of dopamine in the brain which once accessed becomes hard-wired and virtually impossible to get rid of, every time you give in to it you are going to be a lot more likely to give in to it again, and even if you could put a little machine or fail safe in there somehow to regulate your response in times of stress that little machine will be over ridden by the hard wired need for that hit of dopamine .

In a sense what you have already done is you have crossed a line, a line that cannot be uncrossed and has now implanted itself deep into you brain. That is what happens . You risk the chance now of needing a bigger hit when things get stressful in life, you run the risk of becoming an addict, so don't practice what you don't want to become, learn to deny your urges , it will not be easy now that you have already crossed that line but it is not impossible either, you must now consider yourself as on the cusp of addiction and always be aware as to what triggers will set you off.

TheAnalyst_ · 04-03-2018 04:40PM

What makes it inherently wrong? And if it is inherently wrong and damaging then surely we should legislate for it.

up for anything · 04-03-2018 04:45PM

Avery Flat Sweater wrote: »

Yeah there's a difference between spouting tired old nonsense and hitting a nerve dude.

You come out with a nonsensical generalisation and more than one person challenges it, shocking.

Like if I said everyone who's ever been on a swinging website has deepseated psychological issues, probably had traumatic sexual experiences early in life and definitely had a drug problem, it'd be defensive of you to contradict that and you'd only be doing it coz I hit a nerve?

er, most of the people on swinging websites are as 'normal' as you or me from what I can make out. However, if you want to say that fair enough. I won't argue with you because I only know a few of them and not all, or enough to loosely use the term 'all'. However, I do know 50 odd years worth of people and yeah, most of them either struggled themselves or were with someone who struggled with monogamy (and succumbed to that struggle) and they were people spread right across every spectrum and strata of different societies. Maybe not all the time but definitely during different parts of their lives and relationships.

bluewolf wrote: »

No, you're right, it's definitely us and not your post

Really, I'm not posting to gain thanks or to persuade people to my opinion and if you think my post was wrong, fair enough. You're entitled to your view. I was giving my opinion on the subject and not searching for cast iron ways to say 'full of people'. I find people get very defensive on the subject but more when they have unspoken doubts about their partner rather than about themselves. It's all a bit like smokers lying to themselves as well as other people. Discreet cheating has saved more relationships in this country then has foundered them.

youtube! · 04-03-2018 04:53PM

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

What makes it inherently wrong? And if it is inherently wrong and damaging then surely we should legislate for it.

Oh I'm not judging so "wrong" may be the wrong word, point taken. However the very fact that OP needed to vent on here and given some of her statements
would indicate that she is struggling herself with the morality of it within her own confines, right wrong doesn't enter into for us peering in from the outside but clearly it does for her otherwise she wouldn't give a toss and this thread would have never existed. My main point was to address the physiological process that takes over when we venture down a road that we ourselves judge to be wrong. The actual physical changes that occur in the brain when this happens are extremely powerful and potentially ruinous.

Cheerful Spring · 04-03-2018 05:04PM

Pluto Planet wrote: »

Exactly the point, marriage was invented as people knew it was not natural to people to only have sex with one other person for the rest of there life. They thought a contract was the solution, they even invented Gods and commandments to try and scare people into honouring the contract

Some women have not have experienced the pleasures of being with other men before settling down and now they feel they missed out. I don't think you can blame the OP husband for that? I guess a lesson for other women in this thread live a little before you commit to one man for the rest of your life.

beefburrito · 04-03-2018 05:09PM

Honesty is the best policy, if one wants the best of both worlds, they're better off having a partner who's allowed to take a bite out of the cake too.

But as I've heard there's nothing worse for a guy or woman seeing or hearing their partner have a better time with another rather than with them...

If one dips their wick they better be prepared to pay for the oil....

Cheerful Spring · 04-03-2018 05:27PM

Hiitsme wrote: »

Thanks for that. I didn't realise the OP had taken that road, the thread is so long I missed it trying to speed read. She might still consider counselling though.

My problem with her she deliberately had sex with another man and never told her husband who I believe has a right to know she out sleeping with other man. This urge she had my return I also think when you do once you bound to go there again. Nobody saying she can't sleep with this other man but it's the lying is what gets me and the unfaithfulness to her husband. I disagree with posters on here this can save a marriage. I don't know any man who is happy their wife shagging someone else to save their marriage. If its sexless marriage and you crave this and your husband has given up your wasting your time and life trying to fix something that never will be fixed. Kids and paying a mortgage is a bad excuse to stay in a marriage you unhappy with.

Affair / Sexual chemistry

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