The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

ohnonotgmail · 01-03-2018 11:56AM

Omackeral wrote: »

I full agree that mods can and should post as normal posters in threads. I think it's a conflict of interest, though when a mod who has taken a side in a debate is the same one that locks a thread. They can't be impartial if they've a dog in the fight, so to speak.

Of course they can.

01-03-2018 11:58AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Of course they can.

They can't be seen as impartial. Same reason you wouldn't get an Irish referee in charge of Ireland in a 6 Nations match vs France.

GreeBo · 01-03-2018 12:15PM

Omackeral wrote: »

I full agree that mods can and should post as normal posters in threads. I think it's a conflict of interest, though when a mod who has taken a side in a debate is the same one that locks a thread. They can't be impartial if they've a dog in the fight, so to speak.

If the thread was only locked for one side you would have a point.
The thread is locked for all, impartially almost

Boom_Bap · 01-03-2018 12:25PM

I haven't looked at these threads other than the opening post, last post and the person that opened the threads. So you'll have to bear with me on that.

In general though, in AH if a mod is heavily invested in a thread in AH, we would always try to bow out and let the other mods take care of anything.
We would always note this in the AH mod forum that someone else needs to take action, or evaluate to see if action is required.

01-03-2018 01:20PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

In general though, in AH if a mod is heavily invested in a thread in AH, we would always try to bow out and let the other mods take care of anything.

That's all I was saying. I think AH has some good posters who happen to be mods of the forum too and that's not an issue at all nor should it be. I think though if a moderator is seen to be on one particular side (ie for or against a topic) then maybe they shouldn't be the one locking it. Even if it's a case that they refer it to another moderator in private. If it's the same person locking it that's been on thread pro or anti the issue, it's easy ammunition to give to people calling bias. It's just a conflict of interest issue more than anything, not necessarily saying there is bias involved.

01-03-2018 01:22PM

GreeBo wrote: »

If the thread was only locked for one side you would have a point.
The thread is locked for all, impartially almost

Or you could argue the thread was locked because the mod doesn't like the topic being discussed at all. Not accusing that, despite two of the threads having similar themes, but merely saying it's a claim that could have merit.

GreeBo · 01-03-2018 01:26PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Or you could argue the thread was locked because the mod doesn't like the topic being discussed at all. Not accusing that, despite two of the threads having similar themes, but merely saying it's a claim that could have merit.

But you a say that about any moderator action....maybe they dont like what a poster said in a thread last year?

I think you need to trust that a moderator is acting impartially and thats why they are a mod. (and hope that if not someone will notice and take action)

Fr_Dougal · 01-03-2018 01:26PM

You might look at shilling over in Bargain Alerts too, what’s going on over there is ridiculous. I know he’s a paid advertiser, but having family shill for you to get more airtime shouldn’t be allowed.

01-03-2018 01:30PM

GreeBo wrote: »

But you a say that about any moderator action....maybe they dont like what a poster said in a thread last year?

I'm talking about specifically on a given thread, nothing else.

See here;

Omackeral wrote: »

If it's the same person locking it that's been on thread pro or anti the issue, it's easy ammunition to give to people calling bias. It's just a conflict of interest issue more than anything, not necessarily saying there is bias involved.

Barry Badrinath · 01-03-2018 01:35PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

4 of them were opened by a rereg troll who has since been banned.
You're right though, there should be an explanation added.

Also, that rereg still has a thread or so open. Either lock them all or none at all. A bit of consistency would be nice.

Also, anyone posting on a blatant rereg thread should be forum banned for a week.

Its only encouraging the fcuktards.

Tom Mann Centuria · 01-03-2018 01:40PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You might look at shilling over in Bargain Alerts too, what’s going on over there is ridiculous. I know he’s a paid advertiser, but having family shill for you to get more airtime shouldn’t be allowed.

Who's that then?

01-03-2018 01:41PM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Also, anyone posting on a blatant rereg thread should be forum banned for a week.

I seldom check who starts the thread much less their register dates or their post history. How do you enforce that one?

the_pen_turner · 01-03-2018 01:59PM

one thing that irritates me is that when a mod deletes a post and says xyz dont post in this thread again. nobody reading later knows what was said or if they are getting close to that line.
i think the mod should have to post a small explination or one line saying why. something like . dont use ofensive language or treat other members with more respect etc.

Oldtree · 01-03-2018 02:37PM

Beasty wrote: »

I'm proposing leaving this thread open for a week to allow posters to further comment on the progress we've made to date, and any other areas they think we should prioritise

Why not sticky this thread for the week then? :P

It is in essence a feedback thread.

Kuva · 01-03-2018 04:25PM

Can't believe ye haven't figured out guidelines on thread locking after all this time.

Boom_Bap · 01-03-2018 05:41PM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Also, that rereg still has a thread or so open. Either lock them all or none at all. A bit of consistency would be nice.

Some of them cannot be left open, they are just magnets for the rereg to return to them, we have to use our judgement here.
Others just cannot be left open, for example there was one about guessing ethnicity, which was clearly a traveller bashing thread.
Others are actually good ideas, so we just remove the troll and let the thread roll.

It's not black and white unfortunately, the resounding calls from feedback is to let threads roll, so if there are some we can, then we will.

Kuva wrote: »

Can't believe ye haven't figured out guidelines on thread locking after all this time.

We are discussing this in the AH mod forum as part of the changes proposed from this thread.
The main thing is that we are trying to not lock threads unless necessary but it's something collectively the mods need to improve on

Beasty · 01-03-2018 06:01PM

Kuva wrote: »

Can't believe ye haven't figured out guidelines on thread locking after all this time.

This only seems to have become a big issue in recent times, and it's part of the ongoing discussions with the mods

I did set out proposed guidelines in my update yesterday. Again though you may be looking at this from an AH perspective. What works in one forum may not work in another, and we should avoid getting too prescriptive in areas that have site-wide relevance

Kuva · 01-03-2018 06:17PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Some of them cannot be left open, they are just magnets for the rereg to return to them, we have to use our judgement here.
Others just cannot be left open, for example there was one about guessing ethnicity, which was clearly a traveller bashing thread.
Others are actually good ideas, so we just remove the troll and let the thread roll.

It's not black and white unfortunately, the resounding calls from feedback is to let threads roll, so if there are some we can, then we will.

We are discussing this in the AH mod forum as part of the changes proposed from this thread.
The main thing is that we are trying to not lock threads unless necessary but it's something collectively the mods need to improve on

Their was a thread last week about biggest mistakes made by previous taoiseachs, good OP, I've zero interest in politics usually but hit follow for the craic but 1 of you guys had already nuked it cuz the poster was a rereger.

1- if that was me, I'd imagine i'd rereg just to be a dick somewhere else.

I seen thread in prison where rereger beared their boardie soul to be allowed access , admin comes on saying they'll look into and get back, days later rereger is back fuking and blinding about no response despite admin being online everyday.

2- maybe you have let some threads roll, seems very very rare if you do.

3- seen a post other day with mod edited title mentioning warning in post somewhere in the thousands.

Must be near a decade people have been asking about that practice to be stopped.

I know the office don't give a damn so anything needing their help is lost cause...I don't how, the artic is melting quicker than change on here.

Kuva · 01-03-2018 06:21PM

Beasty wrote: »

This only seems to have become a big issue in recent times, and it's part of the ongoing discussions with the mods

Years.

Ignored in feedback.

Locking solves nothing.

Kuva · 01-03-2018 06:22PM

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results

Boom_Bap · 01-03-2018 06:28PM

Kuva wrote: »

Their was a thread last week about biggest mistakes made by previous taoiseachs, good OP, I've zero interest in politics usually but hit follow for the craic but 1 of you guys had already nuked it cuz the poster was a rereger.

1- if that was me, I'd imagine i'd rereg just to be a dick somewhere else.

I seen thread in prison where rereger beared their boardie soul to be allowed access , admin comes on saying they'll look into and get back, days later rereger is back fuking and blinding about no response despite admin being online everyday.

2- maybe you have let some threads roll, seems very very rare if you do.

3- seen a post other day with mod edited title mentioning warning in post somewhere in the thousands.

Must be near a decade people have been asking about that practice to be stopped.

I know the office don't give a damn so anything needing their help is lost cause...I don't how, the artic is melting quicker than change on here.

There is no harm in you opening the same thread yourself. But if it's a political thread, I'd advise in the Politics Cafe or, if for serious political discussion, the Politics forum.

2. I think that we have given the feedback....but it's not something that I actively monitor.

3. We should be adding the warning to the Opening Post as well - that's a change I personally want to see happen.

I can't comment on the office, but the feedback from this thread is being noted and the mods are trying to implement what there is a consensus on.

Discodog · 01-03-2018 06:40PM

Beasty wrote: »

I'm proposing leaving this thread open for a week to allow posters to further comment on the progress we've made to date, and any other areas they think we should prioritise

Rules/warnings in OP remain in place, and anyone thread-banned remains so

You have decided that the Mods will decide if there can be feedback on their forum. You have said that some can't have feedback because they are too busy & other because they are two quiet. But we may get a chance to voice an opinion every year or so - if the Mods allow it. So no progress there.

Again it's all about PMing your friendly Mod & keeping things hush hush. So no progress there either.

Consistency can be a good or bad thing. A good Mod & there are some, won't really be noticed. They don't need to warn or card because they set the tone of the forum. I suggest that Boards ask (maybe beg or pay) a few of the greats to come out of retirement.

Beasty · 01-03-2018 07:53PM

Discodog wrote: »

You have decided that the Mods will decide if there can be feedback on their forum. You have said that some can't have feedback because they are too busy & other because they are two quiet. But we may get a chance to voice an opinion every year or so - if the Mods allow it. So no progress there.

And, unsurprisingly I guess, you have decided to misrepresent what I said, so I'll say it again

Feedback stickies
Some forums have already implemented these, but we recognise this does not suit every forum. Indeed some of the more popular forums would probably experience continual comments about modding decisions, distracting the mods and indeed turning discussion away from the underlying topic. We would expect feedback threads in these cases to be run every couple of years or so, and if posters feel one is overdue they can always PM the mods to request one. Equally in some cases forums are quite quiet with few issues and it may be inappropriate to seek feedback that often. Posters should not start feedback threads themselves as it's important that local mods set some ground rules when opening up such threads.

If posters feel a feedback thread is overdue but local mods disagree, please contact CMods and after that feel free to start a thread in Help Desk to discuss the issue

It's quite clear that posters like you will continue to troll threads like this

And yes, I know, there will be a backlash from a few of the "regulars" to this post

BowSideChamp · 01-03-2018 08:22PM

Omackeral wrote: »

2 of those threads were closed by Conspectus.

His post in locking the transgender athlete thread was pathetic. Basically, " here is my sanctimonious viewpoint, now watch me leave with the ball - thread locked".

Ken. · 01-03-2018 08:24PM

BowSideChamp wrote: »

His post in locking the transgender athlete thread was pathetic. Basically, " here is my sanctimonious viewpoint, now watch me leave with the ball - thread locked".

It's opened again.

end of the road · 01-03-2018 08:38PM

STB. wrote: »

The biggest problem Dudara is the re-regs or supposed new regs that post in highly controversial threads. Take for example the abortion/referendum threads (theres one in the last few days right here in AH). Its full of people with low post counts. The source of these is not rocket science.

And that is the huge issue for all fora regardless of what the fora is called. Once you feature in the top 40 websites visited it will be targetted by every nutter group. They simply arent just re-reges. They are organisations with agendas.

That drives normal contributers away. There needs to a zero tolerance to it. How you do it is another thing however.

people sign up to the site to discuss topics. they are going to have a low post count for a while. we all started our posting in one particular topic, so does that mean we all automatically have an agenda, or is it just those who you don't agree with?
if people are going to be accused of having an agenda because they post in a particular topic and disagree with a certain viewpoint and have only registered or have a low post count then what is the point in people bothering to sign up to this site?

Discodog · 01-03-2018 08:40PM

Beasty wrote: »

And, unsurprisingly I guess, you have decided to misrepresent what I said, so I'll say it again

It's quite clear that posters like you will continue to troll threads like this

And yes, I know, there will be a backlash from a few of the "regulars" to this post

I could not & still can't quote your original thread but what part of my post is in conflict with yours ? You are the first person ever to accuse me of Trolling. Clearly if you consider me & the "regulars" to be Trolls you have no intention of listening to our constructive views. We are clearly all wasting our time.

Rjd2 · 01-03-2018 08:43PM

end of the road wrote: »

people sign up to the site to discuss topics. they are going to have a low post count for a while. we all started our posting in one particular topic, so does that mean we all automatically have an agenda, or is it just those who you don't agree with?
if people are going to be accused of having an agenda because they post in a particular topic and disagree with a certain viewpoint and have only registered or have a low post count then what is the point in people bothering to sign up to this site?

Don't really understand the problem of people signing up to debate something as important as the repeal vote. Obviously if they are just here to bait people then ban, but happy to see new people ideally offering another POV no matter what way they intend to vote.

An issue with a lot of the political debate recently its the same people debating and all have the same POV. Boring.

I can't imagine Digital Spy would be that upset if new posters joined up tomorrow to discuss brexit etc.

Beasty · 01-03-2018 09:08PM

Discodog wrote: »

I could not & still can't quote your original thread but what part of my post is in conflict with yours ? You are the first person ever to accuse me of Trolling. Clearly if you consider me & the "regulars" to be Trolls you have no intention of listening to our constructive views. We are clearly all wasting our time.

I have put a lot of effort into this thread and the current Open Feedback thread. Whatever is suggested as a way forward ends up being shot down by a small number of posters. It seems whatever we commit to and indeed deliver on we will still have the whingers wanting to stir things up at every opportunity. Yes I knew it was a "no-win" scenario when I took on the role of Admin, but the approach of some has deteriorated massively, making this place both difficult to help out in, and indeed more toxic for posters who have no interest in stirring things up

Yes I know many would like this site to be a complete free for all, but that's simply not going to happen

Beasty · 01-03-2018 09:15PM

Discodog wrote: »

I could not & still can't quote your original thread but what part of my post is in conflict with yours ?

Have you not read what I said?

I indicated we should have regular forum feedback threads in most forums. However there are maybe 500 forums across this site and the vast majority of them really don't need a feedback thread. They are often posted in by a small number of regulars that get on with each other and are perfectly happy with the way things are. So, for example, what problems have you seen in the Rugby League forum that warrants a feedback thread every couple of years? What about Yoga and Pilates, All Things Retro, Christmas?

I said if posters feel one is warranted approach the mods, and then the CMods. I said that if all that fails start a thread in the Help Desk? I said a number of forums already have a number of feedback stickies

So what more do you want?

The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18