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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

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Comments

  • #3182
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    That’s a personal story and I’d appreciate no abuse for it. I was called bastard from an early age by certain family members long long long before I knew what it meant both literally and in the Irish vernacular of the time but I understood the tone it was said and it always hurt and still does.


  • #3183
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    david75 wrote: »
    I’m not a commited Christian though?
    I was born in 75 to two 16 year olds who were told by the church I couldn’t be baptised until they were married. They got married. Church still refused to baptise me. Wasn’t until we’d moved away to a different area and communion rolled around at 7, and I *had* to be baptised as I had no baptismal cert that I was.

    So I was being punished by the church as were my parents for them having me out of wedlock. If they’d only had access to contraceptives none of this would have happened. But Ireland is still that place. A redundant church trying to control people’s lives.

    What good can come from that?
    None to my mind. They’re destroying their institution with their own stupidity and hubris.

    If the church was punishing you for your parents not being married, then can you tell us what form this punishment took?
    How were you disadvantaged by this punishment for example?


  • #3184
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    splinter65 wrote: »
    If the church was punishing you for your parents not being married, then can you tell us what form this punishment took?
    How were you disadvantaged by this punishment for example?

    I don’t know you tell me?
    Being excluded from gods shining light and mercy? By his agents on earth? Doesn’t seem like something the god we believe in would do.
    Yet his self appointed mouthpieces are allowed to?

    What are the benefits of Christianity when you’re 7 and poor and living in a totally deprived area? Or anywhere?


  • #3185
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    david75 wrote: »
    I don’t know you tell me?
    Being excluded from gods shining light and mercy? By his agents on earth? Doesn’t seem like something the god we believe in would do.
    Yet his self appointed mouthpieces are allowed to?

    What are the benefits of Christianity when you’re 7 and poor and living in a totally deprived area? Or anywhere?

    It’s a bit odd the bit about your parents being told that they couldn’t have you baptized unless they were married because not only is that not a condition of getting a baby baptized, but it wasn’t (nor isn’t) necessary for parents to actually physically bring the child for baptism themselves.
    And at the time it would have been very common for a granny or an aunt or sister to bring the baby while the mother was “lying in”.
    Do you think at all that the fact that your parents were only children when they had you and quite clearly from what you say weren't in a position to look after you without having a huge struggle affected your childhood very negatively ? How would being baptized have made the situation any different for example?


  • #3186
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    J C wrote:
    Thanks Bob ... they demand actual photos ... and when you show them ... they don't believe their own eyes !!!


    But they're not photos are they? The level of craziness just gets worse and worse.


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  • #3187
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    david75 wrote: »
    I don’t know you tell me?
    Being excluded from gods shining light and mercy? By his agents on earth? Doesn’t seem like something the god we believe in would do.
    Yet his self appointed mouthpieces are allowed to?

    What are the benefits of Christianity when you’re 7 and poor and living in a totally deprived area? Or anywhere?
    You certainly didn't get an easy start in life, that's for sure.
    ... and your parents were only children themselves at the time ... again not the best start for their adult lives either ... but would abortion on demand have helped?

    I think not ... apart from the fact that I would never have met you and had the pleasure of teaching you the finer details of a 12 week old unborn child. :)

    Seriously, I can see that you were hurt by your experiences and those of your parents ... but I would urge you to not let this colour the rest of your life ... or indeed how you perceive Christians.


  • #3188
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    pilly wrote: »
    But they're not photos are they? The level of craziness just gets worse and worse.
    The Getty image is a photo ... my two images are CGI ... but the point is that they are all accurate representations, for all practical purposes, of what a living 12 week old unborn child looks like.

    You look like another candidate for some schooling from Leo ... please repeat after Leo "a 12 week old fetus is a 12 week old unborn baby".


  • #3189
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    railer201 wrote: »
    It means that if you bet 10€ on removal of the 8th you will get €3 back plus the ten if the people win the vote to remove the 8th.

    If you bet 5€ for the 8th to remain, you will get €11 back plus the five if the people win the vote for it to remain unchanged.

    Therefore the first scenario is the more likely.
    ... it is ... but in betting parlance ... only by a whisker.

    If these were two horses ... they would both be right up there with an excellent chance of winning.

    If Paddy Power believed the MSM that 'yes' was a dead cert ... the odds on 'no' ... would be out beyond 20 to 1.


  • #3190
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    J C wrote:
    The Getty image is a photo ... my two images are CGI ... but the point is that they are all accurate representations, for all practical purposes, of what a living 12 week old unborn child looks like.


    No it is NOT a photo. I think it's you sir that needs some schooling. Unless you can explain how someone got a camera into the womb.

    I don't believe anyone is that stupid so I'll just call it what it is. LIES.


  • #3191
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    J C wrote:
    You look like another candidate for some schooling from Leo ... please repeat after Leo "a 12 week old fetus is a 12 week old baby".


    I don't need any schooling. I really couldn't care less what people like to call it.

    I've never insisted it be called a foetus.


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  • #3192
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    splinter65 wrote: »
    It’s a bit odd the bit about your parents being told that they couldn’t have you baptized unless they were married because not only is that not a condition of getting a baby baptized, but it wasn’t (nor isn’t) necessary for parents to actually physically bring the child for baptism themselves.
    And at the time it would have been very common for a granny or an aunt or sister to bring the baby while the mother was “lying in”.
    Do you think at all that the fact that your parents were only children when they had you and quite clearly from what you say weren't in a position to look after you without having a huge struggle affected your childhood very negatively ? How would being baptized have made the situation any different for example?



    It was obviously because they were so young. It was a source of pretty much endless shame for them and both families from within their communities. Don’t pretend you dont know how we were as a communities and how gossip worked.l to blacken people’s names and reputations.

    I got personal abuse from family members in both sides ‘for what I did’ and from the church and it really had a bad effect. I didn’t do anything. I was just born. Isn’t that a big thing within this faith? Why get punished and ostracised for it, both me and my parents and family?

    Somewhere around 9 I joined the altar boys to make up for it after we had moved and of course ended up being sexually abused by a brother who was in charge of the altar boys. (Who is still alive and still being moved parish to parish globally it seems) I wasn’t the only one either. Being made to drink whiskey and coke and then have a man you and your family came to trust, do that to you at 9 years old does kinda stay with you. There’s some mental imagery and abhorrent memories you can’t scrape off that are burned into your head and your entire being.

    That’s a different thing though. I’m in no way anti Christian. But I wouldn’t be a big fan of this church and it’s efforts to hide this stuff. Just don’t think anyone’s hands mouths penises or opinions have any place in anyone else’s bodies or minds.
    That’s where I come from.


  • #3193
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    weird I’ve never told any of my family that. Talking to strangers is easier it seems.


  • #3194
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    pilly wrote: »
    No it is NOT a photo. I think it's you sir that needs some schooling. Unless you can explain how someone got a camera into the womb.

    I don't believe anyone is that stupid so I'll just call it what it is. LIES.
    Try here for a start to your re-education

    http://100photos.time.com/photos/lennart-nilsson-fetus


  • #3195
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    david75 wrote: »
    I Just don’t think anyone’s hands mouths penises or opinions have any place in anyone else’s bodies or minds.
    That’s where I come from.
    Presumably, you'd be OK with it when its consensual.


  • #3196
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    J C wrote: »
    Presumably, you'd be OK with it when its consensual.



    Ehhhhh. What???


  • #3197
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Katie Full Leak wrote:
    Try here for a start to your re-education


    What? Photos of dead fetus?

    Bob is claiming Getty take photos of live ones.


  • #3198
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    What is wrong with You? Seriously. Reported.


  • #3199
    railer201
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭railer201


    david75 wrote: »
    It was obviously because they were so young. It was a source of pretty much endless shame for them and both families from within their communities. Don’t pretend you dont know how we were as a communities and how gossip worked.l to blacken people’s names and reputations.

    I got personal abuse from family members in both sides ‘for what I did’ and eff to Ely from the church and it really had a bad effect. I didn’t do anything. I was just born. Isn’t that a big thing within this faith? Why get punished and ostracised for it, both me and my parents and family?

    Somewhere around 9 I joined the altar boys to make up for it after we had moved and of course ended up being sexually abused by a brother who was in charge of the altar boys. (Who is still alive and still being moved parish to parish globally it seems) I wasn’t the only one either. Being made to drink whiskey and coke and then have a man you and your family came to trust, do that to you at 9 years old does kinda stay with you. There’s some mental imagery and abhorrent memories you can’t scrape off that are burned into your head and your entire being.

    That’s a different thing though. I’m in no way anti Christian. But I wouldn’t be a big fan of this church and it’s efforts to hide this stuff. Just don’t think anyone’s hands mouths penises or opinions have any place in anyone else’s bodies or minds.
    That’s where I come from.

    Jeepers - what a Christian post by you, I doubt I could be that charitable - maybe someone with pastoral experience here can offer you some helpful advice. All I can say is there are plenty of choices of churches out there if you're interested in hooking up with one. I'm a classic church non-attendee but don't consider myself less of a Christian because of it. If you want to be one, just be one - that's it.


  • #3200
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    pilly wrote: »
    No it is NOT a photo. I think it's you sir that needs some schooling. Unless you can explain how someone got a camera into the womb.

    I don't believe anyone is that stupid so I'll just call it what it is. LIES.
    The Getty image is a photo. The story of the unborn child has been captured on camera starting in the 1960's ... this is how it was done then:-

    Quote:-
    When LIFE published Lennart Nilsson’s photo essay “Drama of Life Before Birth” in 1965, the issue was so popular that it sold out within days. And for good reason. Nilsson’s images publicly revealed for the first time what a developing fetus looks like, and in the process raised pointed new questions about when life begins. In the accompanying story, LIFE explained that all but one of the fetuses pictured were photographed outside the womb and had been removed—or aborted—“for a variety of medical reasons.” Nilsson had struck a deal with a hospital in Stockholm, whose doctors called him whenever a fetus was available to photograph. There, in a dedicated room with lights and lenses specially designed for the project, Nilsson arranged the fetuses so they appeared to be floating as if in the womb.


  • #3201
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    pilly wrote: »
    But they're not photos are they? The level of craziness just gets worse and worse.

    Have you no picture of a 12 week/blob/bunch of cells/parasite either pilly.
    It’s amazing what pops up when you Google 12 weeks gestation and Page after page appears but no pro abortion advocates can ever ever find anything that fits their narrative, so they have to pretend that there ARE no pictures... then they say that pro life people are brainwashed...


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  • #3202
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by david75
    I Just don’t think anyone’s hands mouths penises or opinions have any place in anyone else’s bodies or minds.

    Originally Posted by J C
    Presumably, you'd be OK with it when its consensual.

    david75
    Ehhhhh. What???
    I was referring to the fact that consensual sex does precisely what you are referring to.

    ... and the Boards.ie invades people's minds with all kinds of new (and not-so-new) ideas that other people offer.
    ... and everyone is usually all the better for this, as well.


  • #3203
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    railer201 wrote: »
    Jeepers - what a Christian post by you, I doubt I could be that charitable - maybe someone with pastoral experience here can offer you some helpful advice. All I can say is there are plenty of choices of churches out there if you're interested in hooking up with one. I'm a classic church non-attendee but don't consider myself less of a Christian because of it. If you want to be one, just be one - that's it.

    I was definitely and actively moderating my language and descriptions given you can’t even say fart in this thread without getting an infraction as it’s seen as rude offensive language.
    I wouldn’t be now or maybe ever into taking up with any church.

    Just be cool to people and help them when you can and don’t be a prick works best no dogma no judgement.


    *my karma ran Over your dogma was a great sig I saw earlier. It’s funny but yeah.


  • #3204
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    splinter65 wrote:
    Have you no picture of a 12 week/blob/bunch of cells/parasite either pilly. It’s amazing what pops up when you Google 12 weeks gestation and Page after page appears but no pro abortion advocates can ever ever find anything that fits their narrative, so they have to pretend that there ARE no pictures... then they say that pro life people are brainwashed...


    Again, tell me how someone gets a camera into the womb?

    I personally don't care what it looks like. What I do have issue with are LIES.


  • #3205
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    J C wrote: »
    I was referring to the fact that consensual sex does precisely what you are referring to.

    Originally Posted by david75
    I Just don’t think anyone’s hands mouths penises or opinions have any place in anyone else’s bodies or minds.
    That’s where I come from.

    ... and the Boards.ie invades people's minds with all kinds of new (and not-so-new) ideas that other people offer.
    ... and everyone is usually all the better for this.


    And yet your beliefs Re invading women’s bodies personal lives and choices.


    That’s hypocritical

    Completely hypocritical


  • #3206
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    david75 wrote: »
    weird I’ve never told any of my family that. Talking to strangers is easier it seems.

    That’s <snip> disgusting Dav. I’m really sorry that happened you or anyone. Your anger is completely justified and I’m angry as <snip> for you.


  • #3207
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    pilly wrote: »
    What is wrong with You? Seriously. Reported.
    What is wrong with you?
    ... and what are you reporting now?

    If it is Neilsons work, that tatranska linked to, that is itching you, this is classic realistic life-like photos from the 1960s of the stages of development of unborn children from conception to birth. It was a breakthrough in photography, at the time, that was and is lauded by many people.

    They have been looked at and appreciated by everyone from school children to adults.

    ... but the snowflake generation apparently cannot look at them without going into a hissy fit??

    ... and yet they can campaign for abortion ... riddle me that !!!


  • #3208
    railer201
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭railer201


    david75 wrote: »
    I was definitely and actively moderating my language and descriptions given you can’t even say fart in this thread without getting an infraction as it’s seen as rude offensive language.
    I wouldn’t be now or maybe ever into taking up with any church.

    Just be cool to people and help them when you can and don’t be a prick works best no dogma no judgement.


    *my karma ran Over your dogma was a great sig I saw earlier. It’s funny but yeah.

    I totally understand - and that's cool - best wishes. :cool:


  • #3209
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    david75 wrote: »
    And yet your beliefs Re invading women’s bodies personal lives and choices.


    That’s hypocritical

    Completely hypocritical
    Where is the hypocracy, you speak of?


  • #3210
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    splinter65 wrote: »
    That’s ****ing disgusting Dav. I’m really sorry that happened you or anyone. Your anger is completely justified and I’m angry as **** for you.

    Thanks for that. It doesn’t shape my opinions but it has shaped me and nothing I can do. I struggle with this particular topic so much having seen both sides many times.
    Friend in crisis pregnancy only last week. Only this morning another gave birth to a beautiful little fella who is literally smiling in every picture :) (9 lbs 2oz!)
    I was 14lbs 8oz born. Little bugger coming for me crown :)

    A topic I take seriously and listen to both sides, when they’re talking facts and sense rather than cartoons and hysteria.


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  • #3211
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    pilly wrote: »
    Again, tell me how someone gets a camera into the womb?

    I personally don't care what it looks like. What I do have issue with are LIES.
    The question you asked originally is if it was a photo ... as distinct from a CGI ... and we have now told you how photographs of unborn children at various stages of gestation were first taken in the 1960s ... which was outside the womb ... with the unborn child 'staged' to reflect reality within the womb. It would seem that the Getty photo was similarly staged.

    I don't know ... but I would have thought that with micro cameras and keyhole surgery ... that actual colour images and video of live unborn children within the womb are now possible, as well.
    I don't know how clear they would be, though.

    ... and the pro-abortion side is far too quick to resort to name calling ... and in particular calling pro-life people liars ... when they are no such thing.

    ... and then the the pro-abortrion choice advocates hypocritically express they hope that the repeal campaign will be conducted in a civil, reasoned and non-abusive manner .... when the only name-calling on this thread is coming from the pro-abortion side.


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