Have you ever had an unwanted sexual experience? Mod warning in op - updated 6/3/18

Hitman3000 · 21-02-2018 12:26AM

erica74 wrote:

Thanks everyone. I have been going to Counselling since September 2017 and it is a very very slow and difficult process. There are days when I wish I could just suck all the truth back in but then there are days when I feel free in being honest but it's all wavy for now. Anyway, I won't derail the thread.

Christ I can't say how sorry I am for you and I know it is meaningless in any event. Thank you for your bravery in posting and don't feel in anyway you would be derailing the thread. I admire your strength of character and wish you all the best in coming to terms with what you have suffered.

retro:electro · 21-02-2018 12:34AM

Erica, I've never wanted to give someone an internet hug as much as I do you right now. X

Mam of 4 · 21-02-2018 12:52AM

Erica , I hope you realise and can see how brave and strong you truly are . What you went through is unimaginable to so many people , yet your courage in dealing with it and posting here , may give others who have experienced abuse/rape , the courage to deal with it also , no matter how many years may have passed x .

Donald Trump · 21-02-2018 01:10AM

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Ilovethe bonesofyou · 21-02-2018 01:18AM

All the best to you Erica. That's an awful lot of terrible stuff you've been through and it was very brave of you to post.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 21-02-2018 01:22AM

Jesus Erica, I won’t quote just Incase you do want to delete it but I’m so sorry to read what you’ve been through. You’re very brave to share your story and I wish you all the best for the road ahead xx

InfoSponge · 21-02-2018 03:17AM

erica74 wrote: »

Thanks everyone. I have been going to Counselling since September 2017 and it is a very very slow and difficult process. There are days when I wish I could just suck all the truth back in but then there are days when I feel free in being honest but it's all wavy for now. Anyway, I won't derail the thread.

You are so brave Erica and so strong to be able to put it all out there so early on in counselling. I hope you find justice if you are seeking it but mainly peace and healing. You deserve it. Counselling is a very very slow process and don't rush it go at your pace. Talking/Sharing is a great healer as I'm sure you realise now and the more you do it the more it sets you free. You will also have helped so many reading this. I wish you all the happiness in the world.

To all who have posted their experiences or can only read at this stage i wish you all all the happiness and healing in the world. Everyone who has thanked or replied with care to the posters, thank you so much it really does help.

omega man · 21-02-2018 01:41PM

As a male I can honestly say I’ve never ever crossed a line with a girl nor, to the best of my knowledge at least, have any of my close friends. In fact I’ve never seen a guy in public doing anything obviously untoward.

I’ve certainly not lived a sheltered life, far from it but I must say that this thread has absolutely sickened me and has been a real eye opener.

As a father of a young girl coming close to her teens I’m really fearing what she’ll face out there. I admire the bravery of so many of you in sharing such deeply intimate and traumatic events from your lives. I truly hope society is changing for the better of us all, females and males together, as people finally speak out.

Outlaw Pete · 21-02-2018 02:19PM

Alexis Ambitious Wax wrote: »

When I was a young teen I was 'on the hop' from school and hanging out in Stephens Green when a Christian brother got chatting to me, then turned the chat to masterbation and tried touching my leg, I got up and left.

lol. That fcuker tried it on with me one day also. Back around the early 90's or so, never forget it. I was reading a book about Food Combining of all things (The Hay Diet) and he sat down beside me and starting talking away about diet and then oddly segwayed on to girlfriends and boyfriends and did I have either. Hmmm I thought to myself. But it was the hand on the knee that had me jump up and give him the kinda look Eddie Murphy had in Trading Places after he's offered a Jacuzzi.

Often wondered if his seduction technique ever worked for him but sure I guess it must, as nobody would keep fishing in a lake they never got a bite in.

21-02-2018 02:40PM

This thread is a sad and in some ways insightful read. So much hurt caused at the hands of others. I do hope that those of you who have suffered will find peace and healing.

I've been lucky it would seem. I have never been sexually assaulted or experienced unwanted groping. I don't fear walking down the street or wonder if the person behind will rape me. Perhaps it is because I've been lucky that I don't fear men or see them as a threat. In mind they are just people the same as I am a person.

However once something did happen but he never laid a finger on me. It was words that shook me to the core and destroyed so much. Apart from that and a gobshíte who was physically violent with me one night, there has been nothing.

leggo · 21-02-2018 03:13PM

See I think as lads we have to re-evaluate our interactions from the past with new information. I can hand on heart say I’ve wracked my brain through nearly every sexual encounter I’ve had and THINK I’m grand. Like I’d have certain things I’d do around consent that are as much to cover my own arse from crazies as it is to make sure the other person is comfortable, even when I’m drunk this stuff would be muscle memory now. But then you read stuff like the Aziz Ansari story where it’s two different perceptions of the same reality (and we’re only hearing one but I can guess how he saw it from that and believe he never lost sleep until the article, while still remaining for all intents and purposes as ‘good’ a person as he was before) and it really gets you thinking. You just don’t know.

I think all you can do, even as a decent well-meaning man is listen, read and see the other side then pay it forward in any future interactions you have.

freshpopcorn · 21-02-2018 03:23PM

This thread got a lot more replies than I was expecting!

Wibbs · 21-02-2018 03:24PM

omega man wrote: »

In fact I’ve never seen a guy in public doing anything obviously untoward.

I have TBH O. Not often and not any guys I know personally thank christ, but yeah on nights out I've certainly seen overly pushy creepy stuff alright and fairly regularly. At least regularly enough that I can see why some women are seen as on the defensive in pubs etc.

Years ago I was out on the lash with a woman mate of mine and I saw a woman trip and fall over and I moved towards her asking if she was OK and she went ape at me. Really freaked out(and she wasn't drunk from what I could tell) and bear in mind I was with a woman, so not a solitary weirdo. Said mate kinda went for her over it, but afterwards we both agreed that she didn't lick that response from a stone and likely had experiences that informed it. TBH I would be extremely wary of attempting to help in a similar circumstance again. Which is a pity, but...

Again personal experience talking here, but I've seen even more pushy behaviour outside Ireland. Cultural thing? I dunno. The drinking culture here doesn't help that's for sure.

21-02-2018 03:29PM

leggo wrote: »

See I think as lads we have to re-evaluate our interactions from the past with new information.

I cant really get on board with "as lads we should" type of group think. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, past and present. I'll stand over mine and you stand over yours. No we.

Same goes for "as white people we should" etc etc

21-02-2018 03:33PM

leggo wrote: »

See I think as lads we have to re-evaluate our interactions from the past with new information. I can hand on heart say I’ve wracked my brain through nearly every sexual encounter I’ve had and THINK I’m grand. Like I’d have certain things I’d do around consent that are as much to cover my own arse from crazies as it is to make sure the other person is comfortable, even when I’m drunk this stuff would be muscle memory now. But then you read stuff like the Aziz Ansari story where it’s two different perceptions of the same reality (and we’re only hearing one but I can guess how he saw it from that and believe he never lost sleep until the article, while still remaining for all intents and purposes as ‘good’ a person as he was before) and it really gets you thinking. You just don’t know.

I think all you can do, even as a decent well-meaning man is listen, read and see the other side then pay it forward in any future interactions you have.

I know 2 people who in the last year have had someone contact them about something from yeears ago that they've now decided wasn't fine. I can think of a couple of times where I'm like "Was that ok?" and even though I try to put it in terms not just from my point of view anyone I've gone into specifics with said I was fine. But was I?

leggo · 21-02-2018 03:33PM

Omackeral wrote: »

I cant really get on board with "as lads we should" type of group think. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, past and present. I'll stand over mine and you stand over yours. No we.

I’d tend to agree on most issues, but when it comes to consent, the law etc...it kinda does matter if you conform to a certain standard or not.

21-02-2018 03:35PM

leggo wrote: »

I’d tend to agree on most issues, but when it comes to consent, the law etc...it kinda does matter if you conform to a certain standard or not.

Why "we as lads" though? Why not just we in general. Consent can be and is a two way street

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 21-02-2018 03:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been lucky it would seem. I have never been sexually assaulted or experienced unwanted groping. I don't fear walking down the street or wonder if the person behind will rape me. Perhaps it is because I've been lucky that I don't fear men or see them as a threat. In mind they are just people the same as I am a person.

You’re right though the majority of men aren’t a threat. In fact in most situations they would go out of their way to keep you safe. If you ever get in any bother on nights out I’ve noticed than random men will make sure you’re okay, let you skip the que in the chippers or wait with you at the taxi rank til you get into the taxi. Guys for the most part or at least the ones I seem to encounter are decent people. I’ve been on the other side of that too but thankfully out of almost 15 years of being out and about 99% of the time it’s positive interactions with the opposite sex

leggo · 21-02-2018 03:43PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Why "we as lads" though? We not just we in general. Consent can be and is a two way street

See you’re reading something I’m not saying into it. I’m saying “we as lads” because I’m a man and can’t say “we as women or trans people”. I’m not saying that the problem is all men’s either, I’ve specifically gone out of my way to say in this very thread “let’s not make this a #NotAllMen” discussion, pointing fingers or trying to absolve responsibility solves nothing. Also keep in mind I’m a man who has posted stories in this thread about unwanted sexual contact from women.

It’s just let’s also not pretend that men and women are the same and have the same shared experiences and issues. There are, for sure, things that women needs to look at too. It’s just that my penis makes me supremely unqualified to be the one to discuss them with any kind of authority.

Triceratops Ballet · 21-02-2018 03:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This thread is a sad and in some ways insightful read. So much hurt caused at the hands of others. I do hope that those of you who have suffered will find peace and healing.

I've been lucky it would seem. I have never been sexually assaulted or experienced unwanted groping. I don't fear walking down the street or wonder if the person behind will rape me. Perhaps it is because I've been lucky that I don't fear men or see them as a threat. In mind they are just people the same as I am a person.

However once something did happen but he never laid a finger on me. It was words that shook me to the core and destroyed so much. Apart from that and a gobshíte who was physically violent with me one night, there has been nothing.

I do have other experiences that I'm not ready to list out here that are worse then I mentioned before but, I have to say, I don't generally fear men either, I'm not nervous or overly cautious around them. I don't look over my shoulder or cross the street to avoid people, I firmly believe in walking head up with purpose, and making eye contact.

21-02-2018 04:06PM

leggo wrote: »

See you’re reading something I’m not saying into it. I’m saying “we as lads” because I’m a man and can’t say “we as women or trans people”.

You could just say we as people, or simply we. "As lads we should" is very much creating an us and them and telling "us" how "we should" do this or that. I appreciate it's probably just how it's phrased but these days that type of charged language is exactly what you see in these blame game articles and what causes loads of arguments. Guess I was triggered ha!

Hitman3000 · 21-02-2018 04:14PM

leggo wrote:

See I think as lads we have to re-evaluate our interactions from the past with new information.

No I don't need to, I wasn't a creep in the past and certainly not one now. As troublesome as I find the behaviour of members of my sex I certainly don't need anyone trying to tar me with the sexual predator label just because I'm male.

Katgurl · 21-02-2018 04:41PM

@leggo I was only talking to my girlfriends about this the other day.

Each one of us have had experiences mainly down to too much drinking on our part that we regretted, did not give consent for as were not capable and felt entirely responsible for. I am 40 btw to give some idea on timelines. There is so much talk about consent now and to be frank the meaning of it has changed. Experiences we had then may today be considered rape. Can I just add a caveat that none of us have any intention of taking any action, it was just a conversation about how times have changed.

With that said, there must be an equal amount of men who now look back on experiences which could now be considered rape but wouldn't have been anything close to then. And that can't be a comfortable feeling.

A slightly light-hearted example; a male friend of mine once had sex in his house with an insanely drunk girl (I think he met her walking home from nitelink) who halfway through sex sat down on the edge of the bed and urinated everywhere. The next day she didn't know where she was or how she got there and left in a panic to go straight to work (no shower as she presumably had no recollection). Anyway, we all thought this story highly entertaining and he got lots of mileage out of it. I did say after I stopped laughing "what the f were you doing riding someone in that state?" but didn't think much of it.

Her version told today of her last memory being out and about and then waking up in some man's bed are not so hilarious and could possibly get him in trouble.

I don't think my friend is a rapist btw or a threat to women.

leggo · 21-02-2018 04:56PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

No I don't need to, I wasn't a creep in the past and certainly not one now. As troublesome as I find the behaviour of members of my sex I certainly don't need anyone trying to tar me with the sexual predator label just because I'm male.

Yeah see you’re grossly over-simplifying the entire issue by loading up your language with words like ‘creep’ and ‘predator’. Do you think any man or woman who’s been written about in this thread identifies as a creep or predator? Yet here we are 40 pages deep with stories with plenty more likely to come.

The reason I made that post to begin with because I saw the thread was starting to veer towards “well I never done nothing...” territory and, sorry, but how the **** can someone possibly know how your every sexual interaction was perceived by the recipient? Did you (not specifically ‘you’, person I quoted, for the record) stop at every available juncture, even at times you were intoxicated, and specifically ask for consent to physically escalate every single interaction? “May I now touch your bottom?” and so on. Every time you touched a different part of another person’s body right up until penetration? Did you make a grounded determination that every consent was given enthusiastically?

If someone says yes to all of that, I call BS. What makes this a societal problem isn’t the hardcore rapists or predators where it’s black and white. What makes it endemic is the fact that these grey areas and gaps in perception can exist, and in between them major damage can be caused. Lads who think groping is just a bit of a laugh, women who assume that men must be up for sex because we’re all horndogs. People who immediately disbelieve and slate victims despite having zero knowledge of the specifics, causing future victims to fear speaking up. I could go on.

You don’t think you’re a creep? Congratulations, you have that in common with just about everyone on the planet outside of Thom Yorke. That doesn’t make it so. That doesn’t mean you’ve done something, but it also doesn’t mean you won’t do something in the future. It doesn’t mean that you won’t live every day but one of your life as an honest, harmless person and, on that one day, get caught in a miscommunication caused by ignorance and incidentally ruin someone’s life without even realising.

If you want to be responsible for your own behaviour, that’s great. But that means you’re on the clock, always. And saying “oh but I’m a good guy and always have been so I’ve nothing to worry about” on boards is the opposite of that. If only things were that black and white, we wouldn’t be here to begin with.

21-02-2018 04:59PM

Katgurl wrote: »

With that said, there must be an equal amount of men who now look back on experiences which could now be considered rape but wouldn't have been anything close to then. And that can't be a comfortable feeling.

A slightly light-hearted example; a male friend of mine once had sex in his house with an insanely drunk girl (I think he met her walking home from nitelink) who halfway through sex sat down on the edge of the bed and urinated everywhere. The next day she didn't know where she was or how she got there and left in a panic to go straight to work (no shower as she presumably had no recollection). Anyway, we all thought this story highly entertaining and he got lots of mileage out of it. I did say after I stopped laughing "what the f were you doing riding someone in that state?" but didn't think much of it.

Her version told today of her last memory being out and about and then waking up in some man's bed are not so hilarious and could possibly get him in trouble.

I don't think my friend is a rapist btw or a threat to women.

That sounds a bit dodgy and I thought it would have 20 years ago too.

Katgurl · 21-02-2018 05:13PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That sounds a bit dodgy and I thought it would have 20 years ago too.

Ok but honestly it didn't seem to be to me or anyone else. I felt sorry for the girl about the bedwetting incident (and that yet another one had fallen for his charms as he was quite the ladies man) but that's as much thought as I gave it.

21-02-2018 05:15PM

Katgurl wrote: »

Ok but honestly it didn't seem to be to me or anyone else. I felt sorry for the girl about the bedwetting incident (and that yet another one had fallen for his charms as he was quite the ladies man) but that's as much thought as I gave it.

Fair enough, though I find it surprising.

B0jangles · 21-02-2018 05:15PM

Katgurl wrote: »

@leggo I was only talking to my girlfriends about this the other day.

Each one of us have had experiences mainly down to too much drinking on our part that we regretted, did not give consent for as were not capable and felt entirely responsible for. I am 40 btw to give some idea on timelines. There is so much talk about consent now and to be frank the meaning of it has changed. Experiences we had then may today be considered rape. Can I just add a caveat that none of us have any intention of taking any action, it was just a conversation about how times have changed.

With that said, there must be an equal amount of men who now look back on experiences which could now be considered rape but wouldn't have been anything close to then. And that can't be a comfortable feeling.

A slightly light-hearted example; a male friend of mine once had sex in his house with an insanely drunk girl (I think he met her walking home from nitelink) who halfway through sex sat down on the edge of the bed and urinated everywhere. The next day she didn't know where she was or how she got there and left in a panic to go straight to work (no shower as she presumably had no recollection). Anyway, we all thought this story highly entertaining and he got lots of mileage out of it. I did say after I stopped laughing "what the f were you doing riding someone in that state?" but didn't think much of it.

Her version told today of her last memory being out and about and then waking up in some man's bed are not so hilarious and could possibly get him in trouble.

I don't think my friend is a rapist btw or a threat to women.

If I'm reading it right, he met a total stranger who was falling down drunk, brought her to his house and had sex with her? How drunk was he? Because unless he was as drunk as she was, it sounds like he was absolutely taking advantage.

(Not having a go at you btw)

Hitman3000 · 21-02-2018 05:17PM

leggo wrote:

Yeah see youâ€™re grossly over-simplifying the entire issue by loading up your language with words like â€˜creepâ€™ and â€˜predatorâ€™. Do you think any man or woman whoâ€™s been written about in this thread identifies as a creep or predator? Yet here we are 40 pages deep with stories with plenty more likely to come.

It was you who engaged in the 'we lads need to examine' you only get to speak for yourself and your own behaviour. I can feel disgust, anger... etc at the behaviour mentioned in the previous posts but not guilt. So as I have said speak for yourself and your own actions and I will do the same. Here is a gentle reminder " I am not my brothers keeper"

Hitman3000 · 21-02-2018 05:20PM

What unmitigated BS.
I'm engaging no further with you simply because this is thread too important for this crap. I will add this what makes your comment so annoying is I have experienced sexual assault by a woman yet you wish to tar all men. So kindly p*ss off with the generalisation.

Have you ever had an unwanted sexual experience? Mod warning in op - updated 6/3/18

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