RAW Superthread

CastorTroy · 18-02-2018 02:18AM

Can't be Roman winning since that would likely mean he would be losing EC unless they change that "rule" to make him look strong

SureYWouldntYa · 18-02-2018 02:20AM

They'll have Braun standing tall so when Roman conquers him on Sunday it's supposed to be all the more amazing and against the odds

Braun and Brock's strong booking is so they're big enough for the big dog to conquer

SlickRic · 19-02-2018 02:57PM

I always remember Punk when it comes to how Vince books anything.

he said that all Vince ever used to care about was what was next for Cena, meaning everything that is booked is ultimately geared towards making Vince's top guy look stronger.

i can't see anything other than Braun killing everyone tonight, so Roman can overcome the odds on Sunday.

Standard.

lycan238 · 19-02-2018 09:29PM

Not liking the ideas posted here of how to make Braun look strong on Sunday but lose. I suppose we could always be surprised by who wins on Sunday and it may not be who we think.

Rock Lesnar · 19-02-2018 09:35PM

I think anybody except Roman will win tonight, probably Balor actually, it'll be Vinces way to fool us into thinking Roman wont win sunday

Mr.Nice Guy · 19-02-2018 09:49PM

Reigns absolutely should overcome the odds on Sunday and then go on to vanquish the big bad beast Brock at Mania. It's wrestling 101 that the babyface overcomes the odds in the end. Sting/Vader, Hogan/Andre, Reigns/Brock. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

And I certainly don't want to see another dreadful Strowman/Brock match like a few months ago at No Mercy, nor do I want to watch Brock lose all credibility by having to sell for a guy like Balor or Rollins. WWE needs more compelling fights and that's what Reigns vs Brock will be. The last Mania match between them I found compelling and I want to see a resolution this time.

Mr. Guappa · 19-02-2018 11:37PM

Heads up for any Sky viewers, Raw has switched channels tonight, my series link didn't catch it.

Lord TSC · 20-02-2018 09:31AM

Not a comment? Not for the longest televised match in WWE history? Or the longest individual performance from Seth Rollins?

That's the best Seth has looked for quite some time. Not being bleak, but the injuries to Dean and Jason might work out very well for him...

GSPfan · 20-02-2018 10:06AM

I thoroughly enjoyed the womens match with Mandy Rose and Alexa Bliss. Special mention for Sasha as always but Rose and Bliss are cheekier.

Lord TSC · 20-02-2018 10:22AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Reigns absolutely should overcome the odds on Sunday and then go on to vanquish the big bad beast Brock at Mania. It's wrestling 101 that the babyface overcomes the odds in the end. Sting/Vader, Hogan/Andre, Reigns/Brock. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

And I certainly don't want to see another dreadful Strowman/Brock match like a few months ago at No Mercy, nor do I want to watch Brock lose all credibility by having to sell for a guy like Balor or Rollins. WWE needs more compelling fights and that's what Reigns vs Brock will be. The last Mania match between them I found compelling and I want to see a resolution this time.

So, I've been mulling this post over in my mind. I accept that this will probably come across as being a Strowman fanboy, or an anti-Reigns smark. I also fully accept that it's been painfully obvious we're getting Reigns vs Lesnar as the main event for a year now, and that obviously isn't changing at all. Brawn vs Miz looks the most likely match now. So this is all hypothetical.

But there's three points you seem to raise about Reigns and why he should get the Brock match.

1. Babyface 101
2. A more compelling match
3. A resolution to their story.

I'll 100% give that Reigns/Lesnar will be the more technically minded match, but "compelling" is utterly in the eye of the beholder. Personally, nothing has happened since their last match to make me massively excited for it. The result is painfully obvious 1 year out, which kills the tension. They're going to go out, have a match, Reigns will win and the crowd will boo. There's literally no tension. I also think it's going to be completely overshadowed by Styles/Nakamura if the Raw duo try to make the match compelling by just being a good wrestling exhibition.

Brawn/Lesnar would be ugly and need to be booked as a short, explosive match. For a proper passing of the torch, I'd argue for Brawn demolishing Brock, ala Goldberg last year. It would be a far worse match, but the reaction would likely be more favorable from the fans in attendance, especially since, again, Styles vs Nakamura will provide the 40 minute clinic, MOTY candidate.

The other two points, however, apply as equally to Brawn as they do Reigns.

Brawn is, by far, the most over babyface on Raw right now. The crowd eat everything he does up. Reigns gets mixed reactions, but on Mania night, you're crazy if you think that smarky crowd won't be 100% behind Brock, especially since they're going in expecting him to lose, and then turn on Reigns every time they see that rocket being strapped back on (rightly or wrongly). If you're argument is that the top babyface should get the top spot at Mania, I don't see how you'd argue Reigns is a bigger one than Brawn. The Mania crowd WILL **** all over Reigns. You can argue they should't, but you really can't deny that they will.

Likewise, resolution applies to both. Brawn has had two matches with Brock; his inexperience at the top level cost him the first, and he didn't get pinned in the second (iirc). Given the two matches are in recent memory, while Brock/Reigns has zero heat currently (as they've made an effort to keep the two completely apart), Brawn's story and its resolution actually could happen and tie together the last year's worth of development for Brawn. If Mania is meant to be the culmination of the last 12 months worth of stories, then that's Brawn Strowman's ascent to the top of Raw and the WWE. Not Reigns, who has floundered around the show for 12 months doing **** all.

Listen, as I said, the match is obviously going to be Brock/Reigns. They got Reigns out of the gauntlet first last night via a lucky pinfall, and overshadowed that loss by having Seth win twice more after it, thus protecting Reigns. Reigns will go into the chamber, win the match, and face Lesnar, fulfilling the prophesy that's been evident for a year. And he'll go to Mania, and they'll have a solid 3 and a half/ 4 star match up, that the crowd will likely **** on out of habit more than anything else, and will be forgotten about within a few weeks.

My point is simply that two of those three criteria towards picking the opponent for Brock apply equally, if not more so, to Brawn than to Reigns. We know it's Reigns, cause we've known it for the last year. But objectively, if you were looking at the last 12 months, and saying "Who is the biggest babyface? Who has developed the furthest? Who do these fans WANT as the top guy we build this show around?", then I don't know how anyone says the answer to those questions is Reigns ahead of Brawn....

Lord TSC · 20-02-2018 10:31AM

Actually. Seth Rollins would have a better match than either, get a better reaction and has the history too. So I'd put him above Reigns as well right now...

Necro · 20-02-2018 12:04PM

Agree with Lord tbh. They should be strapping the rocket to Strowman. Everything he does has the crowds attention. He is THE babyface on Raw. Despite how much Vinnie wants to push Roman as the guy, Roman should be the heel foil to Strowman's dominance as a babyface.

Makes sense, right? The crowd want to boo Roman, they want to to cheer Strowman. Obviously it's too late now, but the RIGHT WM Main Event would be a face Strowman beating a heel Reigns to become the guy. Just my take of course, and obviously not gonna happen.

SlickRic · 20-02-2018 01:13PM

for the story WWE are trying to tell, Reigns overcoming the odds is absolutely what Vince should be booking.

it's just that nobody wants that story.

And that's the problem.

the other problem is that Vince doesn't actually have to give a sh he can happily give in to his private fantasy, knowing that it will have no effect on how much money his company makes, or their standing as the biggest wrestling company in the world. Vince can have the attitude of "I'm going to jam Roman Reigns in their ass until they like it", take the cacophony of boos, and the annoyance of the smarks, and know that in 6 weeks, everything will just go back to normal. Everything will be meh, nobody will care about anything, but it doesn't matter because we still have our TV deal.

Vince doesn't care. Reigns is his last project; his last superstar babyface before he rides off into the sunset I suspect. he's going to jerk off on it whether you like it or not.

PTH2009 · 20-02-2018 01:27PM

poor owl Cena won't have a road to mania if/when he gets eliminated Sunday

wwe takes us as fools if we are to believe that

Agent Coulson · 20-02-2018 01:42PM

Did I just dream that the first two hours of RAW was actual wrestling matches and no real promos or fillers or Steph.

Double J in to the HoF.

Nia Jax beating down Asuka.

A Ronda video package.

A decent tag team match continuing a ongoing storyline.

A Broken/Wyatt promo.

Closing with a half decent women's tag match.

Damm now if they could do that every week people might start tuning back in.

Pinkman · 20-02-2018 01:44PM

Seth was the highlight of the show. Incredible performance. Vince must have big plans for him for Mania for him to go over the two faces of the company clean and wrestle for over an hour.

I was amazed after almost 60 minutes Seth had the strengh to deadlift Cena up and throw him over his head for the AA. Great advert for crossfit.

Lord TSC · 20-02-2018 04:00PM

SlickRic wrote: »

for the story WWE are trying to tell, Reigns overcoming the odds is absolutely what Vince should be booking.

it's just that nobody wants that story.

And that's the problem.

I'd go a step further. It might be the story WWE want to tell, but have they made **** all attempt to tell it?

How has Reign's displayed his desire to fight Brock again at Mania over the last 12 months? What are Reign's motivation, other than to just win whatever match he was put in?

I think Cena's "If I'm not in the title match at Mania, I'll miss my first Mania in 15 years" story is nonsense, BUT at least it's an attempt at character development. Rollin's, in the last two weeks, has shown a genuine desire to be THE top guy and demanded chances. Two lads whoa re cutting promos expressing how desperate they are to be the top guy, and how their world revolves around getting that chance.

What has Reigns done? What is the story they've tried to tell with Reigns over the last 12 months? He beat Taker at Mania and them teased turning heel, but never did. He meandered through the uppermidcard. He got a title match at Summerslam in a Fatal Four Way where HE ATE THE PINFALL! And then meandered his way back into the upper-midcard with a short and uneventful IC title run. And usually just laughed whenever he lost. What odds is he trying to overcome? The deck hasn't been painted as being massively against him tbh. His failures over the last year weren't screwjobs, can't be written off as arrogance he's learned from or inexperience he's gotten over. His losses have all been down to him not getting the job done.

What is the story that supposedly has this great pay off at Mania? If you watched Reigns vs Brock two years ago, what has happened since to make this match mean anything more? What are Reign's motivations? The entireity of the justification for Reign's getting that main event slot seems to be that two years ago, they had a match that got interrupted....which actually would be a ****ing awesome story, but it's not one WWE have actually tried pushing over the last few months....

Bounty Hunter · 20-02-2018 04:16PM

I think Seth is now in the mix with Kurt and a few others to tag with Ronda vs HHH/Steph due to his partners injuries

beakerjoe · 20-02-2018 06:08PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not a comment? Not for the longest televised match in WWE history? Or the longest individual performance from Seth Rollins?

That's the best Seth has looked for quite some time. Not being bleak, but the injuries to Dean and Jason might work out very well for him...

They put him over big, beating Cena and Roman in the same night..... he looked great in both matches.

CastorTroy · 20-02-2018 08:12PM

I don't know if it'll be Cena or Rollins facing Balor at Mania. I mean we still never got any kind of resolution after Seth stomping Balor and making him go loopy. Then the outcome of last week's match. Though fair play to him clapping Seth as he came to the ring.

It's been a long time since someone got away with no-selling moves, yet Braun has done it.
I can see Braun being on his own in the ring at EC and instead of waiting for a chamber to open, just smash a chamber open. But that's unlikely to happen. At most, he'll break out of the chamber in the same way Goldberg did.

Nia looked really awkward against Asuka when she first got in the ring. Maybe Asuka didn't strike quick enough but seeing Nia just standing there ready to take the kicks looked weird.
I forgot Asuka still had to choose an opponent for Mania. Renee said she was going for the Raw title. And I can only assume Kurt doesn't have the power to make the stipulation tha puts Nia in a Smackdown title match.

Mandy was still looking pretty green with a few mistakes.

Overall a good Raw and probably one of the better go home shows in a long time.

Mr.Nice Guy · 20-02-2018 08:35PM

Plenty of people want Reigns in the main event. His merch sales and reactions are strong and he puts on consistently good matches. Don't be fooled by the vocal minority. These same people have hated on Cena since '05 and were chanting him to go away in the Rumble last month. You can't run a wrestling promotion pandering to this fringe group.

It's bizarre to me that people rage on Vince for pushing Reigns and want to see Strowman pushed instead - when Strowman is an even more archetypal Vince project. "Got to keep Roman strong" is the usual lament which overlooks a couple of points - namely that they have booked Strowman even stronger and it has worked out well for them; Reigns has lost several times in 2018 including to The Miz of all people; not to mention the obvious point: YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUSH YOUR TOP GUYS STRONG. That's kind of the point of running a successful wrestling company.

Objectively Roman is better than Strowman in every department and absolutely should be in the main event of Mania. That will be a match that won't stink up the joint like Strowman vs Brock.

I welcome the way they have pushed Strowman but a lot of the love for him is just an anti-Reigns reaction. I said it before but if they turned Reigns heel, and gave Strowman the ball as top face, you would quickly see a role reversal of attitudes from the die-hards: Reigns would be the cool heel a la Batista a decade ago, and Strowman would be loathed for squishing the darlings like Balor and Adam Cole.

JP Liz V1 · 20-02-2018 11:36PM

Monday Night Rollins

and just out in perfect timing

paulie21 · 20-02-2018 11:57PM

https://twitter.com/RobbyTheBrain/status/966031754715975683

21-02-2018 12:17AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Plenty of people want Reigns in the main event. His merch sales and reactions are strong and he puts on consistently good matches. Don't be fooled by the vocal minority. These same people have hated on Cena since '05 and were chanting him to go away in the Rumble last month. You can't run a wrestling promotion pandering to this fringe group.

It's bizarre to me that people rage on Vince for pushing Reigns and want to see Strowman pushed instead - when Strowman is an even more archetypal Vince project. "Got to keep Roman strong" is the usual lament which overlooks a couple of points - namely that they have booked Strowman even stronger and it has worked out well for them; Reigns has lost several times in 2018 including to The Miz of all people; not to mention the obvious point: YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUSH YOUR TOP GUYS STRONG. That's kind of the point of running a successful wrestling company.

Objectively Roman is better than Strowman in every department and absolutely should be in the main event of Mania. That will be a match that won't stink up the joint like Strowman vs Brock.

I welcome the way they have pushed Strowman but a lot of the love for him is just an anti-Reigns reaction. I said it before but if they turned Reigns heel, and gave Strowman the ball as top face, you would quickly see a role reversal of attitudes from the die-hards: Reigns would be the cool heel a la Batista a decade ago, and Strowman would be loathed for squishing the darlings like Balor and Adam Cole.

I was thinking about his since I read it and I agree with most of it (he is good in ring, has a good look etc...) i would argue that his merch sales are high because 1 he' generally given more screen time than most and 2 I have heard rumors (i think here) that in on taping or house shows its 70+% Roman merch so of course his sales numbers will be high.

I have no problem with Reigns being at the top of the card, I just don't see in story-line terms the need for him to face Brock
Like WWE have done nothing in the past year to build to this and as Lord TSC said Brauns story-arch suits that role better

CastorTroy · 21-02-2018 12:30AM

So why is Rollins suddenly using the stomp and buckle bomb again?
And what happened with Akira Tozawa and Titus Worldwide? Did they explain that or did they just suddenly stop appearing together because don;t want main roster mixing with 205?

Hococop · 21-02-2018 01:24AM

Only spotted form here that Jeff jarrett is in the hall of fame, that is mental, him, Shane Douglas and maybe lex are people I thought had fully burned bridges

Especially Jarrett over him forcing Vince to pay him to drop the title

J. Marston · 21-02-2018 01:24AM

CastorTroy wrote: »

So why is Rollins suddenly using the stomp and buckle bomb again?
And what happened with Akira Tozawa and Titus Worldwide? Did they explain that or did they just suddenly stop appearing together because don;t want main roster mixing with 205?

WWE doing their "Forgeddaboudit" thing like with Shane's lockbox and why HHH attacked Kurt at Survivor Series.

HandsomeBob · 21-02-2018 11:37AM

paulie21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RobbyTheBrain/status/966031754715975683

And that sums up nicely why Vince probably doesn't give a sh1t about a wrestlers long term health as long he gets the maximum out of them while they're fit to provide same.

I mean if we take Bryan for example, I always find it a bit rich that they're so concerned about his health now, yet didn't have a problem with him double or even triple jobbing in the one night years ago.

ERG89 · 23-02-2018 09:30AM

Since the Gauntlet match was held this past Monday on Raw (and especially once the big audience number came in for the show yesterday), we've been asked who was responsible for the match taking place, since the length of the bout and even the presentation of the first two hours of Raw were vastly different from the norm.

That person was Vince McMahon, who we are told was the person who suggested the Gauntlet "out of nowhere", which surprised some since, we are told, he is traditionally not very high on such matches.

From there, the match was laid out and McMahon approved the length and presentation of the show.

So, if you enjoyed it, it was a Vince McMahon call.

Would have thought it was someone else tbh. Seemed to pay off too, obviously it's a bit of a once off idea but wouldn't have thought it was Vince

sky88 · 23-02-2018 10:14AM

i honestly think wwe would be much better off if vince became more of a consultant.

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