Do people's parents still get thick about eating meat on Ash Wed/Good Friday?

pilly · 15-02-2018 04:28PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know where your getting this “few” from 78%+ is a pretty big “few”!

I think you missed the word "practicing" from his post because if you genuinely think that there are 78% practicing catholics in Ireland you truly are deranged.

the_syco · 15-02-2018 04:43PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Glad you asked. Alligators are considered fish to Catholics. Just like beavers.

Also, Capybara are considered fish.

the_syco · 15-02-2018 04:45PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Yes. Observing a religious tradition is a fairly normal practice for literally billions of people across the world, and across many religions.

A lot of the whacko believes their version of god tells them to do stupid things, such as violence. Pretty much every religion tells them to love their fellow man, but as they're fckued up in the head, they commit murder in their gods name.

meeeeh · 15-02-2018 04:45PM

housetypeb wrote: »

You seem obsessed with the idea that anybody who doesn't agree with religion is doing it to be "cool".

I'm an atheist and I find people who need to announce to the world that they are eating meat pretty pathetic. And you can tell it's someone who would not normally make steak on Wednesday going out of the way just to prove how atheist they are. We had fish yesterday because the choice of fish in the shop is usually very good around Ash Wednesday. I also added chorizo to cod stew for taste and not to make sure the dinner is atheist enough. Not to mention that some of the same people were celebrating St. Valentine's day which is even more pathetic. (BTW IT had brilliant feature on what restaurateurs think of people who go out for dinner for Valentine's).

branie2 · 15-02-2018 07:05PM

Speaking of steak, I had it for dinner this evening

splinter65 · 15-02-2018 08:45PM

branie2 wrote: »

Speaking of steak, I had it for dinner this evening

Your 24 hours too late.
The cool kids had steak last night.

branie2 · 15-02-2018 09:30PM

I'm a cool kid who likes fish

Sleepy · 16-02-2018 02:50PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know where your getting this “few” from 78%+ is a pretty big “few”!

Do you think that over 78% of our population believe in transubstantiation? Attend mass weekly? Don't use "artificial" contraception? Understand that the immaculate conception relates to Mary rather than Jesus? Don't believe in sex before marriage? Believe gay sex is sinful?

You've worse delusions than your religion if so.

Most Irish "Catholics" are lapsed, non-practicing or more accurately described as some form of Protestant that attends the odd Catholic mass for Christmas, weddings and funerals. Their self-declaration of their religion as being Catholic when entered on census is done more from a sense of cultural association more than out of any faith in the Catholic church or it's teachings.

Lux23 · 16-02-2018 03:26PM

My Dad would have actively encouraged us to eat meat on Ash Wednesday whereas my Mum pretends to be bothered by such things, but she's not really.

Míshásta · 16-02-2018 03:40PM

I eat fish on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday because it's a tradition more than because it's a religious obligation.

In the same way people eat turkey or maybe goose on Christmas even if they're not religious.

Anyway, we're always being told we should have more fish in our diet.

I'd also like to eat fish on a Friday, just because of the tradition, but the missus rules in the kitchen, so I go with whatever she produces.

Will the people who seem to get a juvenile thrill out of deliberately eating mammal muscle on Ash Wednesday, abstain from pancakes on Shrove Tuesday, and chocolate on Easter Sunday, just because of their religious associations.

God bless ye all and Bon Appetit, whatever yere dietary preferences.

Míshásta · 16-02-2018 03:48PM

Sleepy wrote: »

Do you think that over 78% of our population believe in transubstantiation? Attend mass weekly? Don't use "artificial" contraception? Understand that the immaculate conception relates to Mary rather than Jesus? Don't believe in sex before marriage? Believe gay sex is sinful?

You've worse delusions than your religion if so.

Most Irish "Catholics" are lapsed, non-practicing or more accurately described as some form of Protestant that attends the odd Catholic mass for Christmas, weddings and funerals. Their self-declaration of their religion as being Catholic when entered on census is done more from a sense of cultural association more than out of any faith in the Catholic church or it's teachings.

Yeah. You make some compelling arguments. But your post belongs to another thread. Apart form the fact that it refers to Irish Catholicism, it's off topic.

Bob_Marley · 16-02-2018 08:23PM

Sleepy wrote: »

Do you think that over 78% of our population believe in transubstantiation? Attend mass weekly? Don't use "artificial" contraception? Understand that the immaculate conception relates to Mary rather than Jesus? Don't believe in sex before marriage? Believe gay sex is sinful?

You've worse delusions than your religion if so.

Most Irish "Catholics" are lapsed, non-practicing or more accurately described as some form of Protestant that attends the odd Catholic mass for Christmas, weddings and funerals. Their self-declaration of their religion as being Catholic when entered on census is done more from a sense of cultural association more than out of any faith in the Catholic church or it's teachings.

This is true, most of them could not care less what the Church teaches, but it's not up to you or the Church to decide what a person does, or does not do, including inventing their own pick and mix versions of Catholicism/Atheism/Homosexuality/Abortion/Whatever-floats-their-boat, they are one's that are responsible for deciding what they do.

Have you heard of the no true scotsman fallacy ?

branie2 · 16-02-2018 09:59PM

the_syco wrote: »

Also, Capybara are considered fish.

Anacondas like them

Atoms for Peace · 16-02-2018 10:12PM

As a non practicing atheist I didn't eat any pancakes on Shrove Tuesday.

Bob_Marley · 16-02-2018 10:18PM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

As a non practicing atheist I didn't eat any pancakes on Shrove Tuesday.

An actual rebel

"Atheists TM" are supposed to gorge themselves sick on steak on Ash Wednesday and then post about how cool they are , did you abandon that dogmal ?
"Atheists TM"will lynch you.

Sleepy · 19-02-2018 12:47PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

This is true, most of them could not care less what the Church teaches, but it's not up to you or the Church to decide what a person does, or does not do, including inventing their own pick and mix versions of Catholicism/Atheism/Homosexuality/Abortion/Whatever-floats-their-boat, they are one's that are responsible for deciding what they do.

Have you heard of the no true scotsman fallacy ?

They're free to believe in whatever they like. I just ask that they be honest about it.

The bit I have a problem with is the corruption of our education system by "their" church which is "justified" by their lying about their religion on the census form.

splinter65 · 19-02-2018 02:39PM

Sleepy wrote: »

They're free to believe in whatever they like. I just ask that they be honest about it.

The bit I have a problem with is the corruption of our education system by "their" church which is "justified" by their lying about their religion on the census form.

Who on earth would lie about their religion on a census form and why?
That’s some conspiracy theory you have there sleeper, 78%+ of citizens lying...
Also, I’m a Catholic and a citizen so it’s “my” education system too, or is it not?

19-02-2018 02:41PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Who on earth would lie about their religion on a census form and why?
That’s some conspiracy theory you have there sleeper, 78%+ of citizens lying...
Also, I’m a Catholic and a citizen so it’s “my” education system too, or is it not?

A good proportion on the census lie about speaking Irish. People are weird!

Sleepy · 19-02-2018 02:52PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Who on earth would lie about their religion on a census form and why?
That’s some conspiracy theory you have there sleeper, 78%+ of citizens lying...
Also, I’m a Catholic and a citizen so it’s “my” education system too, or is it not?

While I've no doubt there's plenty of Irish Mammys lying about the religious affiliations of their children (whether knowingly or not) the largest number of those marking themselves as Catholic on the census form are lying to themselves about their religious beliefs simply because the word "Protestant" has negative historical associations for many in this country.

As a Catholic would you be happy if your children were being taught to praise Allah as part of their education? Or if they were having weeks of their 6th class year of school preparing for their classmates Bar Mitzvahs? Or if they were being made to memorise passages from Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion"?

If you want to indoctrinate your children into your religion, as much as I'd personally disagree with you that as a parent myself, it is your prerogative and I have no issue with you sending them to Sunday School, arranging after-school lessons for them or whatever. While you, and your fellow church members, however, are arrogant enough to believe you have a divine right to force that indoctrination on the majority of the population's children, however, I take serious issue with it.

Faith is the antithesis of education. It literally means choosing to believe something despite a lack of evidence or in the face of all available evidence suggesting the contrary. It has no place in our education system.

splinter65 · 19-02-2018 03:06PM

Sleepy wrote: »

While I've no doubt there's plenty of Irish Mammys lying about the religious affiliations of their children (whether knowingly or not) the largest number of those marking themselves as Catholic on the census form are lying to themselves about their religious beliefs simply because the word "Protestant" has negative historical associations for many in this country.

As a Catholic would you be happy if your children were being taught to praise Allah as part of their education? Or if they were having weeks of their 6th class year of school preparing for their classmates Bar Mitzvahs? Or if they were being made to memorise passages from Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion"?

If you want to indoctrinate your children into your religion, as much as I'd personally disagree with you that as a parent myself, it is your prerogative and I have no issue with you sending them to Sunday School, arranging after-school lessons for them or whatever. While you, and your fellow church members, however, are arrogant enough to believe you have a divine right to force that indoctrination on the majority of the population's children, however, I take serious issue with it.

Faith is the antithesis of education. It literally means choosing to believe something despite a lack of evidence or in the face of all available evidence suggesting the contrary. It has no place in our education system.

So...it’s not the “church” lying on census forms it’s “Irish mammys” (I’d forgotten that all census forms can only be completed by an Irish mammy) and everyone else who ticked Catholic is actually a Protestant in total denial...78%+ of the population all either in denial or just lying, but you can’t tell us why.....hmmm....let me think about that.
If I went to live in a country where more or less all the schools are owned and were built on land owned by Islam bought with money raised by Islam and run by Islam in a place where 78%+ of citizens identify as Muslims on the national census then I’d be pretty astonished if there wasn’t plenty of Islamic indoctrination going on at school because only an idiot would expect otherwise.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 19-02-2018 03:38PM

It's surprising, with all the indoctrination that went on through the years, that so many people seem to still be able to make their own minds up about their religious affiliations. Obviously the education system doesn't indoctrinate as strongly as the complainants would have us believe.

Sleepy · 19-02-2018 05:00PM

splinter65, maybe if you spent less of your time in school learning about deities you might have learned to read a little better.

Nowhere in my post did I say "all" of the 78% plus were lying on their census form. Just a lot of them. You know, the difference between that number and the numbers actually attending mass weekly (A 2006 Poll conducted by RTE put that at about 48%, as compared to 81% in 1990. A 2011 Dublin based survey found weekly attendance rates to be as low as 14%.)

Also, most of us who object to religious involvement in the Irish education system didn't just "move" here. We were born, and raised here and weren't gullible enough / scared of the unknown enough for the indoctrination attempted on us in our childhoods to work.

Srameen, that's a bit of a strawman: the Catholic indoctrination isn't working on my son or daughter any more than it did on me. It's still depriving them of the chance to be taught something worthwhile however. I'd say 10% of my daughters school hours were wasted last year as her classmates prepared for their communion.

Our schools are open for 183 days (primary), and 167 days (secondary) per year. Lets average the religious education out to about 2 hours per week over the course of that time. That's roughly 74 hours per year primary and 67 hours per year secondary, or 1048 hours over the course of an education (excluding transition year). That's a massive opportunity cost. It's not quite the reputed 10,000 hours required to become an expert in something but it's a hell of a grounding in any subject of study: I think you could expect to be fairly proficient in another European language with that investment of time for instance.

splinter65 · 19-02-2018 05:19PM

Sleepy wrote: »

splinter65, maybe if you spent less of your time in school learning about deities you might have learned to read a little better.

Nowhere in my post did I say "all" of the 78% plus were lying on their census form. Just a lot of them. You know, the difference between that number and the numbers actually attending mass weekly (A 2006 Poll conducted by RTE put that at about 48%, as compared to 81% in 1990. A 2011 Dublin based survey found weekly attendance rates to be as low as 14%.)

Also, most of us who object to religious involvement in the Irish education system didn't just "move" here. We were born, and raised here and weren't gullible enough / scared of the unknown enough for the indoctrination attempted on us in our childhoods to work.

Srameen, that's a bit of a strawman: the Catholic indoctrination isn't working on my son or daughter any more than it did on me. It's still depriving them of the chance to be taught something worthwhile however. I'd say 10% of my daughters school hours were wasted last year as her classmates prepared for their communion.

Our schools are open for 183 days (primary), and 167 days (secondary) per year. Lets average the religious education out to about 2 hours per week over the course of that time. That's roughly 74 hours per year primary and 67 hours per year secondary, or 1048 hours over the course of an education (excluding transition year). That's a massive opportunity cost. It's not quite the reputed 10,000 hours required to become an expert in something but it's a hell of a grounding in any subject of study: I think you could expect to be fairly proficient in another European language with that investment of time for instance.

And yet, staggeringly, despite all the hours in school spent on their knees in supplication before God,our state schools are experiencing a huge surge in numbers of school leavers applying for 3rd level education !!!
How could that be!?!?!
Could it be that the Catholic schools under the control of the Catholic Church are doing, as they always have done, a bang up stupendous job of educating our children?!?!?
...to the point where we are the envy of many other not-Catholic-educated EU countries?
If I didn’t know better, I’d say it was a miracle!

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/education/surge-in-thirdlevel-entry-from-statefunded-schools-36379869.html

Edited to add: I myself, despite spending far more hours in learning how to be a Catholic then modern day children could ever dream of, managed to get a Masters, and my brother aPhD. How very odd.....

Sleepy · 19-02-2018 05:58PM

I think you're falling for IDA marketing if you believe we're doing a "a bang up stupendous job of educating our children" (that wording is so Trumpian it's hard to take seriously) btw. We're doing an adequate job but could be doing far, far better.

You, your brother, and indeed I, may have received decent educations from institutions controlled by the Catholic Church. Others however, weren't so lucky: they were beaten, raped and enslaved.

Did you read the link you posted? I'll point out the key words in it for you: State funded.

The state has no business paying for indoctrination. We're a secular state. Sadly, the greatest opportunity we ever had to wrest control of so much of the educational infrastructure of this state away from the Catholic Church was squandered when Fianna Fail sent an alter boy to negotiate with the various orders responsible for the physical and sexual abuse of generations of Irish children who was unbelievably happy to use taxpayers money to cover the vast majority of the reparations for that abuse (a percentage the orders involved still haven't paid by the way).

splinter65 · 19-02-2018 08:03PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I think you're falling for IDA marketing if you believe we're doing a "a bang up stupendous job of educating our children" (that wording is so Trumpian it's hard to take seriously) btw. We're doing an adequate job but could be doing far, far better.

You, your brother, and indeed I, may have received decent educations from institutions controlled by the Catholic Church. Others however, weren't so lucky: they were beaten, raped and enslaved.

Did you read the link you posted? I'll point out the key words in it for you: State funded.

The state has no business paying for indoctrination. We're a secular state. Sadly, the greatest opportunity we ever had to wrest control of so much of the educational infrastructure of this state away from the Catholic Church was squandered when Fianna Fail sent an alter boy to negotiate with the various orders responsible for the physical and sexual abuse of generations of Irish children who was unbelievably happy to use taxpayers money to cover the vast majority of the reparations for that abuse (a percentage the orders involved still haven't paid by the way).

That article isn’t marketing, it’s an article in a reputable newspaper. Your not facing facts. If you’ve no explanation as to how our our citizens are amongst the best educated in the world of free education despite what you describe as the handicap of being under the all embracing umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church then we will have to agree that it is a miracle a la the Loaves and the Fishes, Matthew 15 :32-39.
God bless. Splinter65.

donegaLroad · 20-02-2018 01:25AM

Alas, I was banished from the church for sampling the blood of Christ when I was an altar boy. I was cast out, and left to wander through swathes of beguiling countryside and moorland, where unto this day I do dwell.

*It tasted like cooking cherry

iguana · 20-02-2018 01:44AM

splinter65 wrote: »

Could it be that the Catholic schools under the control of the Catholic Church are doing, as they always have done, a bang up stupendous job of educating our children?!?!?
...to the point where we are the envy of many other not-Catholic-educated EU countries?
If I didn’t know better, I’d say it was a miracle!

We have close to free third level education which is free with a grant for those from lower income families, so of course we have a high take up rate. That means very little, especially when even our highest ranking universities are no where near the top ranks internationally. (Trinity at 88th is the only one in the top 100.) Irish adults are at or below average EU levels in literacy, numeracy and computer skills. The vast majority of us are mono-lingual. Our education system is little more than adequate an unlikely to be subject of much envy in the EU.

20-02-2018 01:50AM

iguana wrote: »

The vast majority of us are mono-lingual.

We've hundreds of thousands of Irish speakers according to the all reliable, totally accurate census.

rainbow kirby · 20-02-2018 02:14AM

Never even thought about it tbh. Made a big pot of chili con carne that night...

NinetyTwoTeam · 20-02-2018 02:17AM

i went to get the ashes about 8 years ago, the priest was using a piece of cork with a cross shape to stick the ashes on which i didn't like at all since it wasn't like being anointed it was just a stamp being pushed into your head, not even a cross like gesture.

then i saw in the mirror later on he had put it on totally sideways as well, so it was an X instead of a + i was wearing all day.

i considered that maybe this was their way of saying i was no longer welcome, as i happen to be pro choice, non-homophobic, etc. even if not, i figured if the priests can't even be bothered to do Ash Wednesday properly any more, I'll not bother either, so I'll eat whatever i please, and I don't bother with ashes or confession or communion any more. the entire Catholic religion is based on punishment, guilt, and control.

Do people's parents still get thick about eating meat on Ash Wed/Good Friday?

Comments