Fine Universities that are denying free speech.

Brian? · 15-02-2018 12:44AM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

They can protest outside the venue if they want. How would it ever be possible to hold talk with your ridiculous philosophy, where anyone can just shout down the speaker.

"Ben Shapiro is a horrible human being. It upsets me that so many people believe in him"

You mean you disagree with him. This is the problem with people like you. You see any political opponent as evil. No wonder you support suppressing their views.

One more question. Who are people like me?

DickSwiveller · 15-02-2018 12:57AM

20Cent wrote: »

Shapiro isn't a political opponent. He's a shock jock cashing in on hatred.

If you say so. I don't agree.

DickSwiveller · 15-02-2018 12:59AM

Brian? wrote: »

One more question. Who are people like me?

People who dislike people because of their political views. Applies to people on the so-called left and so-called right. But, hey, it doesn't seem to apply to you, so my apologies.

VonZan · 15-02-2018 08:48AM

Brian? wrote: »

I’m not twisting what you’re saying. You are not asking that the protesters stay at home. You said the Universities should stop them protesting. You are asking the Universities to silence them. That’s the very definition of censorship.

Define acceptable? I don’t like it. I believe it’s within their rights to do it. And you would also if you actually believed in free speech.

On a side note. Ben Shapiro is a horrible human being. It upsets me that so many people believe in him

The universities shouldn’t be allowing people to interrupt speakers just becuase you don’t agree with them. Usually at these sessions you have a chance at the end to challenge the speaker. The problem is that the protesters people are referring to have absolutely no interest in political dialogue. They just want to shut their perceived opposition down at any cost. What good does that achieve?

If anything the protests have failed spectacularly as they have just drawn more attention to the likes of Milo and Ben Shapiro, who otherwise wouldn’t have such a platform.

Censorship doesn’t work and it’s not someone’s democtatic right to silence others simply because they don’t agree. That’s not how democracy works; yet strangely you will find people supporting shouting down the other side, simply on the basis that they don’t agree with that side.

It’s bizarre trying to fight for equality in society at the same time shouting down any opposition. It’s why these people will never be taken seriously as they are completely devoid of any critical thought.

Brian? · 15-02-2018 09:55AM

VonZan wrote: »

The universities shouldn’t be allowing people to interrupt speakers just becuase you don’t agree with them. Usually at these sessions you have a chance at the end to challenge the speaker. The problem is that the protesters people are referring to have absolutely no interest in political dialogue. They just want to shut their perceived opposition down at any cost. What good does that achieve?

If anything the protests have failed spectacularly as they have just drawn more attention to the likes of Milo and Ben Shapiro, who otherwise wouldn’t have such a platform.

Censorship doesn’t work and it’s not someone’s democtatic right to silence others simply because they don’t agree. That’s not how democracy works; yet strangely you will find people supporting shouting down the other side, simply on the basis that they don’t agree with that side.

It’s bizarre trying to fight for equality in society at the same time shouting down any opposition. It’s why these people will never be taken seriously as they are completely devoid of any critical thought.

What do you want the Universities to do, in order to stop the protesters interrupting?

VonZan · 15-02-2018 10:35AM

Brian? wrote: »

What do you want the Universities to do, in order to stop the protesters interrupting?

I’m not sure what they can do and that’s the sad part. That these people will continue to be allowed to shout people down becuase they don’t agree with them

Geuze · 15-02-2018 10:36AM

Brian? wrote: »

On a side note. Ben Shapiro is a horrible human being. It upsets me that so many people believe in him

From what I have read about him, and heard him say, he is not horrible.

No reasonable person could call him horrible.

Clearly, a socialist would not agree with him.

But he seems a reasonable person, and in terms of support, I would guess that a significant minority of the population in the USA would support his views on the role of the State and identity politics.

Geuze · 15-02-2018 10:37AM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Let me give you an example: Ben Shapiro, a conservative commentator, was giving a talk in some American University and a group of protesters walked up to the stage and started screaming "safety" (I know, it's embarrassing). The security didn't do anything and the hundreds of people who turned up to hear him speak had to wait an hour before they left. Do you think this is acceptable?

Clearly this is unacceptable.

Have a debate, have an opposite speaker after him, or the next week.

Have a protest outside.

But screaming in an invited speaker's face is unacceptable.

20Cent · 15-02-2018 10:40AM

Geuze wrote: »

From what I have read about him, and heard him say, he is not horrible.

No reasonable person could call him horrible.

Clearly, a socialist would not agree with him.

But he seems a reasonable person, and in terms of support, I would guess that a significant minority of the population in the USA would support his views on the role of the State and identity politics.

Charming fella.
He spends hours every week attacking others.

https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/25712847277

Brian? · 15-02-2018 10:40AM

Geuze wrote: »

From what I have read about him, and heard him say, he is not horrible.

No reasonable person could call him horrible.

Clearly, a socialist would not agree with him.

But he seems a reasonable person, and in terms of support, I would guess that a significant minority of the population in the USA would support his views on the role of the State and identity politics.

What about his views on mass deporting the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza into neighbouring countries? What about his rants on the “homosexual mafia”? His views on transgendered people.

Conservatives I can disagree with. Shapiro is a purposefully controversial demagogue.

Geuze · 15-02-2018 10:41AM

From wikipedia, about Ben Shapiro:

As of November 2017, he supported lowering taxes on the very wealthy.He is in favor of privatizing social security, criminalizing abortion, and repealing the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).

I would not agree with much of these proposals.

However, he is not a horrible person for holding these opinions.

And many people in the USA would agree with these proposals.

He is a welcome antidote to the identity politics in the USA.

Brian? · 15-02-2018 10:42AM

VonZan wrote: »

I’m not sure what they can do and that’s the sad part. That these people will continue to be allowed to shout people down becuase they don’t agree with them

What would you like to see done?

I’m trying to understand if you believe their right of free speech is limited.

Geuze · 15-02-2018 10:42AM

He's a bit provocative alright.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-02-2018 10:46AM

He’s a button pusher.

Here he is asking that the Arabs in Israel be deported.

https://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2003/08/27/transfer-is-not-a-dirty-word-n976781

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-02-2018 10:47AM

It’s interesting that he is still working given that rant.

Brian? · 15-02-2018 10:47AM

Geuze wrote: »

From wikipedia, about Ben Shapiro:

As of November 2017, he supported lowering taxes on the very wealthy.He is in favor of privatizing social security, criminalizing abortion, and repealing the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).

I would not agree with much of these proposals.

However, he is not a horrible person for holding these opinions.

But those aren’t the only opinions he holds. But that doesn’t actually matter to me, it’s how he uses his freedom of expression I have an issue with. He fans the flames of hatred. He doesn’t even bother with racist dog whistles.

And many people in the USA would agree with these proposals.

So what?

He is a welcome antidote to the identity politics in the USA.

Not to me. To me, he’s a hate filled, pig ignorant demagogue.

Brian? · 15-02-2018 10:49AM

Geuze wrote: »

He's a bit provocative alright.

A bit ? Brilliant

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-02-2018 10:49AM

Unless Zionism isn’t identity politics he definitely plays identity politics.

Zubeneschamali · 15-02-2018 10:50AM

Geuze wrote: »

He's a bit provocative alright.

So if you invite him to speak and the students are outraged, you have achieved the objective of provoking people.

The louder the protests, the better your invitation has worked.

Because nobody needs to logically debate a loudmouth shock jock who will say anything to provoke a reaction, it's just a Monty Python argument sketch with racism, classism and homophobia.

20Cent · 15-02-2018 10:53AM

Geuze wrote: »

He's a bit provocative alright.

Heard about him about a year ago someone on boards was praising him as an intellectual. So I looked him up. First video starts how to debate a liberal if you can find a sane one. Then proceeds to make an hour long straw man argument.

He talks quickly and refers to studies to back up his points but there is no analysis. For example statistics show that people with a job and married are usually doing well economically. He then claims if black people did the same they wouldn't be socially disadvantages. Totally ignoring all other factors.

The stuff he says about Arabs like the tweet above are the definition of racism. He also goes for a lot of low brow stuff like shows about celebrities, what they said and how stupid they are. This is to get more views and attention, Paul Joseph Watson does this as well.

If you look at his responses to questions from the audience at talks his aim is to humiliate the person, act like he has superior knowledge rather than a sensible reply.

His books titles:
Bullies: How the Left's Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences Americans
Brainwashed: How Universities Indoctrinate America's Youth
How to Debate Leftists and Destroy Them: 11 Rules for Winning the Argument
People Vs. Barack Obama: The Criminal Case Against the Obama Administration
The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam
Porn Generation: How Social Liberalism Is Corrupting Our Future

Not really someone interested in debate.
I put him in the category of people who stupid people think are smart.

20Cent · 15-02-2018 11:04AM

Some of his youtube videos:
Not the actions of an intellectual more like look at me and fake controversy.

I think a lot of these guys discover a niche market and are filling it to cash in.
Fair enough but he's no intellectual.

Ben Shapiro Crushes Cecile Richards Over Mother's Day Tweet | The Ben Shapiro Show
Ben Shapiro RIPS "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" And "The Last Jedi" Trailer
Ben Shapiro Deconstructs Jimmy Kimmel's Healthcare Monologue
Ben Shapiro DEMOLISHES False Narrative Of "Rape Culture"
Ben Shapiro: Planned Parenthood KILLS Babies!
No, We Should Not Remove "Under God" From The Pledge.
Ben Shapiro DESTROYS Transgenderism And Pro-Abortion Arguments

VonZan · 15-02-2018 11:13AM

Brian? wrote: »

What would you like to see done?

I’m trying to understand if you believe their right of free speech is limited.

No you failed to address any of the points I raised and you are now attempting to change the course of conversation so you can argue about the rights of idiots to shout inaudible sounds at people they don’t agree with.

There is no such thing as free speech anyway.

DickSwiveller · 15-02-2018 11:25AM

20Cent wrote: »

Heard about him about a year ago someone on boards was praising him as an intellectual. So I looked him up. First video starts how to debate a liberal if you can find a sane one. Then proceeds to make an hour long straw man argument.

He talks quickly and refers to studies to back up his points but there is no analysis. For example statistics show that people with a job and married are usually doing well economically. He then claims if black people did the same they wouldn't be socially disadvantages. Totally ignoring all other factors.

The stuff he says about Arabs like the tweet above are the definition of racism. He also goes for a lot of low brow stuff like shows about celebrities, what they said and how stupid they are. This is to get more views and attention, Paul Joseph Watson does this as well.

If you look at his responses to questions from the audience at talks his aim is to humiliate the person, act like he has superior knowledge rather than a sensible reply.

His books titles:
Bullies: How the Left's Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences Americans
Brainwashed: How Universities Indoctrinate America's Youth
How to Debate Leftists and Destroy Them: 11 Rules for Winning the Argument
People Vs. Barack Obama: The Criminal Case Against the Obama Administration
The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam
Porn Generation: How Social Liberalism Is Corrupting Our Future

Not really someone interested in debate.
I put him in the category of people who stupid people think are smart.

This is all completely irrelevant. The same could be said for lots of well known commentators, left and right. The question is: should he be free to express his opinion on a University campus without being shouted down. It's very simple.

DickSwiveller · 15-02-2018 11:28AM

Brian? wrote: »

But those aren’t the only opinions he holds. But that doesn’t actually matter to me, it’s how he uses his freedom of expression I have an issue with. He fans the flames of hatred. He doesn’t even bother with racist dog whistles.

So what?

Not to me. To me, he’s a hate filled, pig ignorant demagogue.

There are just as many hate filled individuals on the left but you're not concerned about them of course. This is just typical ideological blindness on your part. Everyone on the right is nasty and everyone who agrees me is a virtuous saint. Get over the fact that people hold different opinions. So that if Shapiro is invited to speak, just don't turn up if you're very sensitive. As far as I know, he hasn't used physical violence, so challenge him on his ideas.

15-02-2018 11:31AM

Ben Shapiro is a straight-up troll. As in most cases I'd be fine with letting him speak, see who goes along.

Brian? · 15-02-2018 11:36AM

VonZan wrote: »

No you failed to address any of the points I raised and you are now attempting to change the course of conversation so you can argue about the rights of idiots to shout inaudible sounds at people they don’t agree with.

I did? I believe I addressed them multiple times over the last few pages. Is there a particular point I didn't address?

I don't like what the protesters are doing. I wish they wouldn't do it. But I want their right to do it remain.

What would you like to see done?

There is no such thing as free speech anyway.

There's a hand grenade. Care to elaborate?

Brian? · 15-02-2018 11:40AM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

There are just as many hate filled individuals on the left but you're not concerned about them of course.

There may well be. But no one has brought them up. If anyrhing I'm more concerned by them, because of the damage they'll do to the cause I support.

This is just classic whataboutery on your part.

This is just typical ideological blindness on your part. Everyone on the right is nasty and everyone who agrees me is a virtuous saint. Get over the fact that people hold different opinions. So that if Shapiro is invited to speak, just don't turn up if you're very sensitive. As far as I know, he hasn't used physical violence, so challenge him on his ideas.

I'm ideologically blind? I actually said that 99% of people on the right were decent people I happy to disagree with. I said this about 10 posts ago. I said this directly to you.

DickSwiveller · 15-02-2018 11:40AM

Brian? wrote: »

I did? I believe I addressed them multiple times over the last few pages. Is there a particular point I didn't address?

I don't like what the protesters are doing. I wish they wouldn't do it. But I want their right to do it remain.

What would you like to see done?

There's a hand grenade. Care to elaborate?

How can you equate free speech - a person's freedom to air their views - with a brainless mob shouting someone down. You really can't see the difference?

Brian? · 15-02-2018 11:41AM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

People who dislike people because of their political views. Applies to people on the so-called left and so-called right. But, hey, it doesn't seem to apply to you, so my apologies.

What happened to this?

20Cent · 15-02-2018 11:41AM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

This is all completely irrelevant. The same could be said for lots of well known commentators, left and right. The question is: should he be free to express his opinion on a University campus without being shouted down. It's very simple.

Freedom of speech means you are free to speak without being censored by the government. It doesn't mean entitlement to a platform with no opposition or criticism.
To confront someone like Shapiro the students would have to pay to attend the talk, hope they get picked to ask a question and then they'd only have a few seconds to ask a question which he will miscontrue and mock them anyway.
He should be allowed speak but so should the students.

A much more disturbing development is the president of the USA constant attacks on the media, calling for critics to be fired. Even kneeling on one knee at a football game is attacked by the president. He only does interviews with sycophantic allies. He said licences to broadcast should be taken from media He disagrees with. He even said democrats not clapping at the state of the union address is treasonous. Don't hear the freedom of speech brigade commenting on that.

Fine Universities that are denying free speech.

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