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Fine Universities that are denying free speech.

13567…31

Comments

  • #62
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Jeremy Corbyn champions communism, a dangerous ideology which has killed millions, his economics are dangerous to society and would literally starve people to death.

    No. He doesn’t, he’s a democratic socialist.
    Una Mullally hates men and is allowed to voice this through the irish times. She regularly posts hate soeech towards men on her twitter account.

    Can you cite one example? I’d like to see some proof.
    Una is to men what westboro are to gay people.

    I don’t think she is. But I’ll await the proof above.

    You’ve conceded that the Nazis were not socialists? Excellent.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #63
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    This is just cherrypicking and whataboutery to be honest. Your radical, man-hating feminists are a minority being afforded a platform because they generate clicks.

    There's no way that the far right would be waving swastikas around if the Nazis were Socialists.

    And the westboro baptist church are only being afforded a platform because standing on street corners isnt illegal yet.

    The far right similtaniously believe that the holocaust didnt happen but also its the best thing ever , theyre that dumb, sure nazi is short for 'national socialist' . The nazi party most certainly was a socialist party and ran under that very platform.


  • #64
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,928 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    And the westboro baptist church are only being afforded a platform because standing on street corners isnt illegal yet.

    The far right similtaniously believe that the holocaust didnt happen but also its the best thing ever , theyre that dumb, sure nazi is short for 'national socialist' . The nazi party most certainly was a socialist party and ran under that very platform.

    The semantics with the names doesn't prove your point I'm afraid.

    There's lot of legitimate criticism that can easily be hurled at Jeremy Corbyn but the histrionics about communism is just tripe and I say that as a market-liberal.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #65
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    And the westboro baptist church are only being afforded a platform because standing on street corners isnt illegal yet.

    The far right similtaniously believe that the holocaust didnt happen but also its the best thing ever , theyre that dumb, sure nazi is short for 'national socialist' . The nazi party most certainly was a socialist party and ran under that very platform.

    Did you even read this link?

    https://www.snopes.com/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #66
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    And the westboro baptist church are only being afforded a platform because standing on street corners isnt illegal yet.

    The far right similtaniously believe that the holocaust didnt happen but also its the best thing ever , theyre that dumb, sure nazi is short for 'national socialist' . The nazi party most certainly was a socialist party and ran under that very platform.

    By that logic North Korea is a Democratic Peoples Republic. It says it in its name doesn't it?


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  • #67
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    By that logic North Korea is a Democratic Peoples Republic. It says it in its name doesn't it?

    And im sure nationalising rail or building the government run arms factories and volkswagen were such right wing economic decisions. Identity cards , work camps and everything else from the stalinist playbook


  • #68
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,928 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    And im sure nationalising rail or building the government run arms factories and volkswagen were such right wing economic decisions. Identity cards , work camps and everything else from the stalinist playbook

    An engorged army? Secret police? Hatred for anyone different? Mass surveillance?

    Most industries were nationalised at the time. Sure, it took Margaret Thatcher in the UK to privatise rail, water, gas, etc...

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #69
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    And im sure nationalising rail or building the government run arms factories and volkswagen were such right wing economic decisions. Identity cards , work camps and everything else from the stalinist playbook

    Did you read the link? Or are you blindly ignoring it to hold on to your point?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #70
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Brian? wrote: »
    Did you read the link? Or are you blindly ignoring it to hold on to your point?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/

    Snopes has been debunked , they showed their true colours during the 2016 us presidential election and considering that article dives right in to trump-nazi comparissons its doubly likely to be an agenda driven one.


  • #71
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    An engorged army? Secret police? Hatred for anyone different? Mass surveillance?

    Most industries were nationalised at the time. Sure, it took Margaret Thatcher in the UK to privatise rail, water, gas, etc...

    Those are all aspects of a left wing totalitarian regime like the ussr, dprk etc...

    Yeah thatcher was right wing , nobody argued that, economically nazi germany was as far from the free market as you could get


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  • #72
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,928 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Those are all aspects of a left wing totalitarian regime like the ussr, dprk etc...

    No, those are right wing ideas. Did you even read the Snopes link or are you just going to ignore anything that disagrees with your agenda.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #73
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    No, those are right wing ideas. Did you even read the Snopes link or are you just going to ignore anything that disagrees with your agenda.

    So the dprk and ussr with secret police, gulags and mass armys parading through town squares are now right wing....

    I did, up until the point where it started casually putting in donald trump to try muddy the waters, did you read my forbes article about how snopes is not reliable and is biased ?


  • #74
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,928 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So the dprk and ussr with secret police, gulags and mass armys parading through town squares are now right wing....

    I did, up until the point where it started casually putting in donald trump to try muddy the waters, did you read my forbes article about how snopes is not reliable and is biased ?

    I'd a quick skim through. I will when I have time but I saw no links to substantiate their claims so I'm not optimistic.

    Yes, engorging the security services at the expense of the populace is a right wing policy. The Soviets definitely had some left wing characteristics but they also had plenty of far right ones as well.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #75
    LaChatteGitane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 790 ✭✭✭LaChatteGitane


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So the dprk and ussr with secret police, gulags and mass armys parading through town squares are now right wing....

    I did, up until the point where it started casually putting in donald trump to try muddy the waters, did you read my forbes article about how snopes is not reliable and is biased ?

    Well, yes. They started off with the concept of leftwing ideologies, 'for the greater good'. Which is what communism is all about. Unfortunately, it turned very right wing, very quickly as it became apparent that it only served the higher echelons of society and oppressed the rest of the populace, which it was supposed to protect.


  • #76
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Brian? wrote: »
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    And the westboro baptist church are only being afforded a platform because standing on street corners isnt illegal yet.

    The far right similtaniously believe that the holocaust didnt happen but also its the best thing ever , theyre that dumb, sure nazi is short for 'national socialist' . The nazi party most certainly was a socialist party and ran under that very platform.

    Did you even read this link?

    https://www.snopes.com/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/
    I read this. It outlines multiple times how Hitler ran under socialist ideals, and expanded the state. 

    The thrust of its denial of the Nazis being socialist seems to be that the Nazi's couldn't be socialist because they discriminated against jews/other socialists [they bring this us seperately to the fact that Nazis banned all competing political parties, not just the other socialist ones]. Comes across very much as a No True Scotsman fallacy.

    It fails to address how the economic aspects of socialism were followed closely[nationalising industries and general expanding of the state], and seems to hope the reader would be ignorant of these facts, which given the reader is gathering their info from the snopes rather than an historians account, is probably something they can bank on.

    A poor article imo.


  • #77
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/

    Snopes has been debunked , they showed their true colours during the 2016 us presidential election and considering that article dives right in to trump-nazi comparissons its doubly likely to be an agenda driven one.


    Did you read the link? Yes or no? Forget the ad hominem attack on Snopes, did you read the information in the link and make an educated decision? Or are you sticking to your position no matter what?

    Since you don’t believe snopes I’ll provide more links.


    https://www.indy100.com/article/nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001?amp

    https://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/NazismSocialism.html


    Now that I’ve done that. Can you post some examples of Úna Mullaly being a man hater? The WBC of men, I believe you wrote.

    Any evidence of Jeremy Corbyn being a communist?

    Any evidence for anything you post?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #78
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Mutant z wrote: »
    The time has come to uphold democracy and freedom of speech at Universities who are refusing platforms to opposing views. A safe space SJW environment has been created at university campuses where only those with opinions that are pro open borders, pro islam, pro EU, pro feminism, gender neutral, anti Trump, anti Brexit are permitted. Hopefully the recent announcement from the UK about fining universities for deny platforms is enforced because this pathetic SJW childish behaviour has been allowed to continue for far too long. College debating societies are supposed to be places where robust debate of all views and ideas are had not just those that comform to a certain world view, so any university not living up to democratic ideas should be fined and have all funding cut until they uphold the principles of freedom of speech and expression which is a cornerstone in any free democratic society.

    I'd love a good white power rally but those blasted universities keep getting in my way


  • #79
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    I read this. It outlines multiple times how Hitler ran under socialist ideals, and expanded the state. 

    The thrust of its denial of the Nazis being socialist seems to be that the Nazi's couldn't be socialist because they discriminated against jews/other socialists [they bring this us seperately to the fact that Nazis banned all competing political parties, not just the other socialist ones]. Comes across very much as a No True Scotsman fallacy.

    It fails to address how the economic aspects of socialism were followed closely[nationalising industries and general expanding of the state], and seems to hope the reader would be ignorant of these facts, which given the reader is gathering their info from the snopes rather than an historians account, is probably something they can bank on.

    A poor article imo.

    I am fully cognizant of the facts. Unlike Eric Cartman. I wanted a nice summary of the points, which Snopes is handy for.

    Do you believe the Nazis were socialists? Because they certainly didn’t believe they were.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #80
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Brian? wrote: »
    Red_Wake wrote: »
    I read this. It outlines multiple times how Hitler ran under socialist ideals, and expanded the state. 

    The thrust of its denial of the Nazis being socialist seems to be that the Nazi's couldn't be socialist because they discriminated against jews/other socialists [they bring this us seperately to the fact that Nazis banned all competing political parties, not just the other socialist ones]. Comes across very much as a No True Scotsman fallacy.

    It fails to address how the economic aspects of socialism were followed closely[nationalising industries and general expanding of the state], and seems to hope the reader would be ignorant of these facts, which given the reader is gathering their info from the snopes rather than an historians account, is probably something they can bank on.

    A poor article imo.

    I am fully cognizant of the facts. Unlike Eric Cartman. I wanted a nice summary of the points, which Snopes is handy for.

    Do you believe the Nazis were socialists? Because they certainly didn’t believe they were.
    They expanded the state, taking as much of the economy under its control as they could.

    How is this not socialism?


  • #81
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    They expanded the state, taking as much of the economy under its control as they could.

    How is this not socialism?

    Because it was a fascist state.

    Expanding the state is not exclusively a left wing idea. In fact, there are libertarian socialists, right libertarians, anarchists and anarcho-capitalists. That’s the full left-right political spectrum who are anti authoritarian.

    You think all authoritarianism is left wing? Do you believe fascism is a left wing philosophy? If you do, you’re wrong.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



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  • #82
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’ll leave this here:

    Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce,[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I before it spread to other European countries.[4] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism and anarchism, fascism is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #83
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Can Irish people people please stop importing ****in annoying Americanisms like SJW. It's childish in the extreme.


  • #84
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I'd a quick skim through. I will when I have time but I saw no links to substantiate their claims so I'm not optimistic.

    Yes, engorging the security services at the expense of the populace is a right wing policy. The Soviets definitely had some left wing characteristics but they also had plenty of far right ones as well.

    Ok so just to clarify something ive genuinely been wondering for a long time, take the nazis and the USSR :

    Both exterminated millions of people
    Both made use of identity cards, mass surveilance
    Both had wide use of secret police
    Dissent in government office warranted death
    Both ran under the banner of being 'socialist parties'
    Both nationalised businesses and started state run companies
    Both invaded as much of europe as they could have.
    Both put most of their resources into a military.

    They seem very very similar to me, yet the ussr is still regarded as a left wing ideology while the nazis are considered far right, and its for some reason (while still idiotic) acceptable to wave around a hammer and sickle flag while the swastika is correctly regarded as a symbol of oppression.

    Now id genuinely love to hear some input but to me its always just seemed like the soviets just had a better PR machine keeping them out of the limelight as awful.


  • #85
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Brian? wrote: »
    Red_Wake wrote: »
    They expanded the state, taking as much of the economy under its control as they could.

    How is this not socialism?

    Because it was a fascist state.

    Expanding the state is not exclusively a left wing idea. In fact, there are libertarian socialists, right libertarians, anarchists and anarcho-capitalists. That’s the full left-right political spectrum who are anti authoritarian.

    You think all authoritarianism is left wing? Do you believe fascism is a left wing philosophy? If you do, you’re wrong.
    I'm not denying they were fascists. Fascism and Socialism are not mutually exclusive ideologies by any means. Fascism concerns itself more about racial and ethnic identity and attitudes to freedom, while socialism is an economic system. 

    Of course not all authoritarianism is left wing. Authoritarianism is based on a group or individual's vanity and arrogance, something which is not in any way based on political affiliation. Please don't put words in my mouth by implying my opinion is that it is intrinsically left wing.

    Would you consider the USSR as socialist or fascist? The definition you've posted for fascism, "characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce" could apply to the soviets as easily as the Nazis.


  • #86
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    This thread has gone way off topic, which is universities and free speech.

    Thanks.


  • #87
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Can anyone link an example of an Irish University impinging on free speech?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #88
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Brian? wrote: »
    Can anyone link an example of an Irish University impinging on free speech?
    None from the university authorities afaik.

    The closest example we have is this example of a guest speaker getting abused. The individual in question is a known lunatic though, and was thrown out of the university for this, so it's hard to claim it's a representative sample.


  • #89
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    None from the university authorities afaik.

    The closest example we have is this example of a guest speaker getting abused. The individual in question is a known lunatic though, and was thrown out of the university for this, so it's hard to claim it's a representative sample.


    So nothing then? I’m seriously wondering why this thread was started. We haven’t seen any of the tomfoolery that goes on in US Universities.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #90
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Brian? wrote: »
    So nothing then? I’m seriously wondering why this thread was started. We haven’t seen any of the tomfoolery that goes on in US Universities.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irving-speech-to-college-society-cancelled-1.901075

    "Ross Frenett, auditor of the society, blamed the cancellation on violent threats by individuals along with a campaign of intimidation against society members."

    Ye, nothing.


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  • #91
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/activist-pulls-out-of-trinity-college-talk-due-to-restrictions-aimed-at-not-antagonising-muslims-31087977.html

    And another.


This discussion has been closed.
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