Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Fighting Tao · 11-02-2018 09:31AM

Anthracite wrote: »

This is what you are up against.

I’m up against nothing different to you. I have the same resources available as you. The difference is that I have been willing to educate myself. You want others to do the work for you. When I started researching I did so with an open mind. You are at the other end of the spectrum and don’t appear to be willing to accept new ideas or learn. Like other nay sayers, your default position is unlikely to move. One thing I have learned from this thread is that I personally do not wish to waste effort on those unwilling to learn because they just keep going back to their default position.

However, while the idea of Blockchain is simple, it is the future even if you don’t see it. The existing ‘coins’ will come and go but the technology will be there changing how many things currently work. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a USD or Euro coin launches in the next couple of years either.

Wanderer78 · 11-02-2018 09:48AM

Fighting Tao wrote:

However, while the idea of Blockchain is simple, it is the future even if you donâ€™t see it. The existing â€˜coinsâ€™ will come and go but the technology will be there changing how many things currently work. I wouldnâ€™t be surprised if there is a USD or Euro coin launches in the next couple of years either.

It does look like central banks are looking into how blockchain can be integrated into their systems

Anthracite · 11-02-2018 09:58AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I’m up against nothing different to you. I have the same resources available as you. The difference is that I have been willing to educate myself. You want others to do the work for you. When I started researching I did so with an open mind. You are at the other end of the spectrum and don’t appear to be willing to accept new ideas or learn. Like other nay sayers, your default position is unlikely to move. One thing I have learned from this thread is that I personally do not wish to waste effort on those unwilling to learn because they just keep going back to their default position.

However, while the idea of Blockchain is simple, it is the future even if you don’t see it. The existing ‘coins’ will come and go but the technology will be there changing how many things currently work. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a USD or Euro coin launches in the next couple of years either.

This is a discussion forum. If everybody is expected to do "all the work", there is nothing to talk about.

And as I've said in my last 3 or so posts, the blockchain is indeed a simple concept, the technology could be important, but cryptocurrency valueless.

How about reading what people say, instead of what you would like them to say?

Fighting Tao · 11-02-2018 10:19AM

Anthracite wrote: »

This is a discussion forum. If everybody is expected to do "all the work", there is nothing to talk about.

And as I've said in my last 3 or so posts, the blockchain is indeed a simple concept, the technology could be important, but cryptocurrency valueless.

How about reading what people say, instead of what you would like them to say?

There is a difference between a person doing some of their own research and those who want others to do it all for them.

You said "there is currently no useful escrow service for crypto that works like VISA or Paypal." Escrow is different to PayPal and VISA. I'll not be the one to explain it to you but before attempting to pick holes in blockchain then you need to know what you are picking a hole about.

Escrow using blockchain: http://bfy.tw/GXeJ Yes, it is the same as I would do myself if I want to know about anything!

VISA: I already told you that MasterCard are hiring people for blockchain work. So you didn't even have to Google it! I'm sure that VISA aren't going to sit back and watch their main competitor develop a new solution. It wouldn't make and business sense.

I already said that different crypto coins will come and go. So that was covered.

Apart from telling you that the is a difference between escrow and services such as VISA and PayPal, I believe all the above was covered already so I really don't know where you get to the question, "How about reading what people say, instead of what you would like them to say?"

Basically, no matter what has been replied to you, you are not willing to take on board or consider the information provided.

grindle · 11-02-2018 10:37AM

Anthracite wrote: »

...the blockchain is indeed a simple concept, the technology could be important, but cryptocurrency valueless.

A simple concept? It's been the subject of ongoing discussion for almost a decade and there's still no ideal blockchain, how can it be a simple concept?
Anyway, this point gets echoed a lot. How or why do you think a blockchain could retain it's value in use if it doesn't create a value?
People who don't understand the value of the network seem to think it can just be forked and used as if it's a database (in which case use a database, it will be cheaper) while ignoring the network aspect - where's the incentive for nodes to run this valueless blockchain? Who's maintaining that software? To what degree can the network or software be trusted? More nodes with as great a spread as possible = greater degree of trust in the network, open source implementation also increases trust through greater levels of scrutiny which brings security.
I'm very confused about what you think the whole point of blockchain tech is, so please elaborate on this point of the tech being useful but also valueless. I'd love to know how or why it could be considered useful enough to be used but not enough to be valued.

Anthracite · 11-02-2018 10:40AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

There is a difference between a person doing some of their own research and those who want others to do it all for them.

You said "there is currently no useful escrow service for crypto that works like VISA or Paypal." Escrow is different to PayPal and VISA. I'll not be the one to explain it to you but before attempting to pick holes in blockchain then you need to know what you are picking a hole about.

Just to make things super simple for you, as it is clear that it is necessary: I did not say that PayPal and VISA are escrow services. I said:"there is currently no useful escrow service for crypto that works like VISA or Paypal."

Read over it as many times as you need to until you see the difference.

Anthracite · 11-02-2018 10:42AM

grindle wrote: »

A simple concept? It's been the subject of ongoing discussion for almost a decade and there's still no ideal blockchain, how can it be a simple concept?

Jim: "Cars are a simple concept."

John: "They have been the subject of ongoing discussion for over a century and there's still no ideal car, how can it be a simple concept? "

Doesn't really work does it?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 11-02-2018 10:43AM

grindle wrote: »

I'm very confused about what you think the whole point of blockchain tech is, so please elaborate on this point of the tech being useful but also valueless. I'd love to know how or why it could be considered useful enough to be used but not enough to be valued.

You quoted someone who said the technology was valuable but the coins valueless and asked him why he thought the technology was valueless.

grindle · 11-02-2018 10:56AM

Anthracite wrote: »

Jim: "Cars are a simple concept."

John: "They have been the subject of ongoing discussion for over a century and there's still no ideal car, how can it be a simple concept? "

Doesn't really work does it?

Cars aren't a simple concept, you'll have to work on the analogies there.
So, without sidestepping (I believe you can do this, come on, walk towards dada!) how does a system which requires massive distribution work without it and/or what's the incentive for the distribution?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You quoted someone who said the technology was valuable but the coins valueless and asked him why he thought the technology was valueless.

He's living in a fantasy land where some tech which is presumably being worked on and validated by someone is somehow separate from the value which keeps that network going.
How does the technology work without a value attached? Don't sidestep, answer to the best of your abilities. You're doing both of us a disservice imagining that the tech can be divorced from value.

Anthracite · 11-02-2018 10:59AM

Sorry Grindle, I'm not willing to engage in discussion without a basic measure of respect between posters. I'm out again. Apologies to the more polite posters here.

Fighting Tao · 11-02-2018 11:00AM

Anthracite wrote: »

Just to make things super simple for you, as it is clear that it is necessary: I did not say that PayPal and VISA are escrow services. I said:"there is currently no useful escrow service for crypto that works like VISA or Paypal."

Read over it as many times as you need to until you see the difference.

I don't think you understand what you are saying yourself and you should reread your statement.

I can only base my replies on what you say. You said "escrow service for crypto that works like VISA or Paypal". Neither VISA or Paypal are escrow. Therefore, you are comparing apples and oranges and you expect a current crypto currency to be both apples and oranges.

PayPal and VISA offer insurance for a price. The seller gets the payment often before you receive the goods if it is distance purchasing. Lets call this apples.

Escrow holds the money until you confirm the goods are received. The seller does not get it if you don't confirm. Lets call this oranges.

So which is it to be? Apples or oranges?

lifeandtimes · 11-02-2018 11:04AM

grindle wrote: »

People who don't understand the value of the network seem to think it can just be forked and used as if it's a database (in which case use a database, it will be cheaper) while ignoring the network aspect - where's the incentive for nodes to run this valueless blockchain? Who's maintaining that software? To what degree can the network or software be trusted? More nodes with as great a spread as possible = greater degree of trust in the network, open source implementation also increases trust through greater levels of scrutiny which brings security.

This part here should have explained it for anthracite but they seem to miss the point.

Simple answer:The block chain needs miners to keep the ledger going, miners get paid in the crypto, if they dont get paid crypto no one will mine it so the block chain will fail

smacl · 11-02-2018 11:36AM

Anthracite wrote: »

And as I've said in my last 3 or so posts, the blockchain is indeed a simple concept, the technology could be important, but cryptocurrency valueless.

It is worth considering that the technology is built around a philosophy of decentralisation. It could be the case that whatever about cryptocurrency, the technology does come to the fore as great fit for the end user but a bad fit for big business, particularly large, lumbering, monolithic financial institutions. In this scenario, the usual reaction of big business is to simply buy up as many small tech companies as they can in order to keep control of the larger picture. I'm not convinced it would work so well in this instance, as I don't think big business could add sufficient value to warrant the profit levels they'd be after.

As for value, surely this is always extrinsic, it is what someone is willing to pay for something. Similarly it is volatile, based on supple and demand, not to mention how fickle and easily swayed the consumer has become. When you say that cryptocurrency is valueless, you're implying that the price paid for other goods is based on some notion of intrinsic worth. This is demonstrably not the case, for example were you to exchange your hoard of bitcoins for that lambo, it is difficult to guess which will depreciate faster but less so guessing which might appreciate. When you say cryptocurrencies are valueless, perhaps you'r be better saying that the value of cryptocurrencies is extremely volatile?

JohnnyFlash · 11-02-2018 06:55PM

Can any of the investors and traders in here explain why Bitcoin trade volumes are so low today? When do the lads over in Tether create more of their coins?

Fighting Tao · 11-02-2018 07:06PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Can any of the investors and traders in here explain why Bitcoin trade volumes are so low today? When do the lads over in Tether create more of their coins?

Isn’t Sunday meant to be a day of rest?

JohnnyFlash · 11-02-2018 07:11PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Isn’t Sunday meant to be a day of rest?

Doubt that is the only reason. Maybe it’s always low on a Sunday - but it does seem very quiet over on GDAX. Seeing plenty of wash trades going in and out, but nothing much apart from that.

Fighting Tao · 11-02-2018 07:48PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Doubt that is the only reason. Maybe it’s always low on a Sunday - but it does seem very quiet over on GDAX. Seeing plenty of wash trades going in and out, but nothing much apart from that.

Maybe we all know something you don’t know.

Dr Bolouswki · 11-02-2018 07:55PM

I just discovered - Boards has an ignore list!! I never knew!! At last - some peace!!

JohnnyFlash · 11-02-2018 08:05PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Maybe we all know something you don’t know.

Ye probably do. I’ll admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed. All I was asking is why the volume of trades is so low today. There’s feck all happening. Is it the Chinese New Year or something/??

grindle · 11-02-2018 08:08PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ye probably do. I’ll admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed. All I was asking is why the volume of trades is so low today. There’s feck all happening. Is it the Chinese New Year or something/??

Chinese new year is on in a few days. Maybe people withholding from trading pre-Valentine's too.
Speculating on volume is much like speculating on price. Before November today's volume had never been seen before.

GreeBo · 11-02-2018 08:10PM

grindle wrote: »

Cars aren't a simple concept, you'll have to work on the analogies there.

With respect, I think you need to go and learn what the word concept means.

You are confusing it with implementation, when by definition it's abstract.

A shared, distributed ledger is a pretty simple concept, somewhat revolutionary, yet simple.

grindle · 11-02-2018 08:20PM

GreeBo wrote: »

With respect, I think you need to go and learn what the word concept means.

You are confusing it with implementation, when by definition it's abstract.

A shared, distributed ledger is a pretty simple concept, somewhat revolutionary, yet simple.

Nicely played.
I think the term used was "blockchain" which adds significant layers of complexity to the distributed ledger concept (testing out my new word!) which are still being tested/learned about.
I'd say blockchain as a concept is not simple seeing as it's still a beta being road-tested on the daily.

JohnnyFlash · 11-02-2018 08:33PM

And are any of these proposed changes to bitcoin i’m Reading about going to change the amount of power the miners are using? Read something recently about the miners using twice as much power as is used in all of Ireland, and we’d have some of those big cloudy data centres here. What would happen if the price fell; could the miners just shutdown?? I probably should read about some of this stuff myself, but i’m Dying of a fücking hangover here.

grindle · 11-02-2018 08:44PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

And are any of these proposed changes to bitcoin i’m Reading about going to change the amount of power the miners are using? Read something recently about the miners using twice as much power as is used in all of Ireland, and we’d have some of those big cloudy data centres here. What would happen if the price fell; could the miners just shutdown??

Lightning Network is independent of BTC miners until the channels close and settlements made to the chain.

As Bitmain produces new machines you'll see the environmental costs jut upwards unless Core figure out a way to reliably remove or reduce the influence of miners on the network.

If the price fell drastically you'd be left with a bunch of idealist miners and a smaller network verifying - it'd be interesting to see how that would unfold.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Dying of a fücking hangover here.

Water. Pizza. GO!

lifeandtimes · 11-02-2018 09:05PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

And are any of these proposed changes to bitcoin i’m Reading about going to change the amount of power the miners are using? Read something recently about the miners using twice as much power as is used in all of Ireland, and we’d have some of those big cloudy data centres here. What would happen if the price fell; could the miners just shutdown?? I probably should read about some of this stuff myself, but i’m Dying of a fücking hangover here.

An actual honest sincere inquisitive question from you, never thought id see the day.

Unfortunately I'm unable to answer it but I'm glad this discussion has vered to a more amicable direction.

But I do have a query for the thread.

Has anyone studied the Wyckoff method and it's applications relating to crytpo?

JohnnyFlash · 11-02-2018 11:06PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

An actual honest sincere inquisitive question from you, never thought id see the day.

Unfortunately I'm unable to answer it but I'm glad this discussion has vered to a more amicable direction.

But I do have a query for the thread.

Has anyone studied the Wyckoff method and it's applications relating to crytpo?

Listen mate, I've never not been amicable. There's just a few sceptics around this space who are entitled to ask questions, and put across opposin' viewpoints.

I'm not tryin' to piss on anyones cornflakes here, and I hope ye all end up turning yer investments into millions - buying yer lambos and mansions in Puerto Rico. I genuinely don't think ye will though as this smells and looks like an enormous scam.

The hackings and stealing of funds, the tether elephant in the room, the genuine questions around the liquidity of these exchanges - where's the money, the amount of power used by those miner bucks in China, the practical application of any of these coins to real world use cases, the scam ICOs, the shady money laundering aspect, the control of most of the coins by lads who just created them out of thin air in most cases, the wash trading.

As I said earlier, I'm not a clever kinda guy, but I do have a nose for a good scam, and this looks like a biggie - the biggest one of all. And all it will require is for small punters likes the ones here and on reddit to stop hodling and investing and the whole thing comes crashin' down. If this forum only wants lads talking about all the positive things they see then I'll gladly holed me whist. Wouldn't be much of a discussion board then though.

lifeandtimes · 11-02-2018 11:46PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Listen mate, I've never not been amicable. There's just a few sceptics around this space who are entitled to ask questions, and put across opposin' viewpoints.

I'm not tryin' to piss on anyones cornflakes here, and I hope ye all end up turning yer investments into millions - buying yer lambos and mansions in Puerto Rico. I genuinely don't think ye will though as this smells and looks like an enormous scam.

The hackings and stealing of funds, the tether elephant in the room, the genuine questions around the liquidity of these exchanges - where's the money, the amount of power used by those miner bucks in China, the practical application of any of these coins to real world use cases, the scam ICOs, the shady money laundering aspect, the control of most of the coins by lads who just created them out of thin air in most cases, the wash trading.

As I said earlier, I'm not a clever kinda guy, but I do have a nose for a good scam, and this looks like a biggie - the biggest one of all. And all it will require is for small punters likes the ones here and on reddit to stop hodling and investing and the whole thing comes crashin' down. If this forum only wants lads talking about all the positive things they see then I'll gladly holed me whist. Wouldn't be much of a discussion board then though.

That's fair enough but you know cryotos have been around for a decade,if this was a scam then it would have been exposed long ago. I'm not saying some coins aren't scams and in it for the money....but there far more in it legitimate one out there than not, people just need to research. I'm mean look at ponzicoin...that has to go down as the biggest WTF were you thinking in investing in it ever!!!
I mean the website told you it was a joke from the beggining.

People are stupid and money parts from stupid people quicker than smart people, it's just a fact

JohnnyFlash · 12-02-2018 12:32AM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

That's fair enough but you know cryotos have been around for a decade,if this was a scam then it would have been exposed long ago. I'm not saying some coins aren't scams and in it for the money....but there far more in it legitimate one out there than not, people just need to research. I'm mean look at ponzicoin...that has to go down as the biggest WTF were you thinking in investing in it ever!!!
I mean the website told you it was a joke from the beggining.

People are stupid and money parts from stupid people quicker than smart people, it's just a fact

There's a pump and dump of a coin called UCash happening at the moment. Became a 2 billion dollar coin by market cap in just over an hour, howver they know seem to be selling it. Glad I'm too stupid to get involved in things like this.

grindle · 12-02-2018 01:05AM

Oh lord, I thought it looked shifty with 260% gains.
Who jumps into a random shítcoin that gets to 1000% gains in a day? And having to create an account on such a crap exchange too.
Blessed be the bagholders, for they shall inherit the scams.

makeorbrake · 12-02-2018 01:20AM

Panorama does Bitcoin

Looks like it's not going to be too complementary

Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

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