Another Sinn Fein blunder?

blanch152 · 06-02-2018 12:11AM

Look I'll admit I got this wrong, as I can see from this thread, it is perfectly ok for politicians to use bolt-cutters to remove clamps to avoid paying fines, they are above the law. If they get caught, only then should they pay up, but people should still defend them.

Now, I am with the consensus.

FrancieBrady · 06-02-2018 12:20AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Look I'll admit I got this wrong, as I can see from this thread, it is perfectly ok for politicians to use bolt-cutters to remove clamps to avoid paying fines, they are above the law. If they get caught, only then should they pay up, but people should still defend them.

Now, I am with the consensus.

Why the f*** would he cut it with boltcutters if he had paid the fine?

He couldn't get through to the firm (regular occurrence in my two time clamping experience) needed to be somewhere, would have been pursued for the fine and damage anyway and decided to go ahead.

Cue the snowflaking.

P.S. I would do it myself in a heartbeat coz nobody really loses anything if I pay.

the sheriff is HERE · 06-02-2018 12:23AM

56% of Claire Byrne poll said they would cut a clamp off in the south and you don't have to be a politician to remove, break, cut a clamp off from a private company.

It's just because gerry kelly is gerry kelly, he paid up he's grand now crisis averted.

Just remove all signage the night before and you can't be clamped.

cycle4fun · 06-02-2018 12:29AM

Luckily he tampered with the lock in "the failed statelet" as some SF call it, and not in Dublin.

"A number of successful prosecutions have been carried out by An Garda Síochána in dealing with motorists caught tampering with clamps on their cars, said the report, adding that one such fine resulted in a payment of €1,250."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-500-clamps-illegally-removed-in-dublin-last-year-1.2820863

And sometimes people are lucky to escape jail sentences for cutting off clamps in Dublin.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/student-spared-jail-sentence-after-cutting-clamp-off-car-1.3211639?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fcourts%2Fdistrict-court%2Fstudent-spared-jail-sentence-after-cutting-clamp-off-car-1.3211639

cycle4fun · 06-02-2018 12:32AM

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

56% of Claire Byrne poll said they would cut a clamp off in the south

56% of Claire Byrne poll said they would cut a clamp off in the south if they knew they would get away with it.
(or words to that effect)

Its all how the question is phrased.

the sheriff is HERE · 06-02-2018 12:36AM

cycle4fun wrote: »

56% of Claire Byrne poll said they would cut a clamp off in the south if they knew they would get away with it.
(or words to that effect)

Its all how the question is phrased.

I'd do it even if I knew I couldn't get away with it.angle grinder is in the boot and I never give back clamps, no there was nothing on my car only a sticker. Remove all signage the night before.

They had to word it like that, did you read the link I posted for you.

Also both your above links are council clamps, we are on about private operators

cycle4fun · 06-02-2018 12:39AM

96% of Claire Byrne poll said they would break the speed limit if they were in a hurry and they knew they would get away with it.

"Removing all signage" will only get you in to trouble sooner or later too.

maccored · 06-02-2018 12:43AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another tangent incoming.

naw, just flew completely past it.

maccored · 06-02-2018 12:45AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Look I'll admit I got this wrong, as I can see from this thread, it is perfectly ok for politicians to use bolt-cutters to remove clamps to avoid paying fines, they are above the law. If they get caught, only then should they pay up, but people should still defend them.

Now, I am with the consensus.

i think its a sign that people are fed up with the stupid threads everytime a shinner farts

Brendan Bendar · 06-02-2018 03:10AM

maccored wrote: »

i think its a sign that people are fed up with the stupid threads everytime a shinner farts

I think it’s a sign that people who defend Sinn Fein are getting a little taste of their own medicine , and are not able to swallow it.

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2018 06:58AM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I think it’s a sign that people who defend Sinn Fein are getting a little taste of their own medicine , and are not able to swallow it.

What, genuinely doesn’t make sense? This thread didn’t go as you planned, but I’m sure you’ll be posting about the next SF “outrage” soon.

FrancieBrady · 06-02-2018 07:34AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What, genuinely doesn’t make sense? This thread didn’t go as you planned, but I’m sure you’ll be posting about the next SF “outrage” soon.

There is anger among those who put in a huge shift over the years, that they haven't gotten Gerry.

They are deploying the Gatling gun of faux outrage now in an attempt to disrupt his final weekend.

Clampgate has been fun.

Brendan Bendar · 06-02-2018 08:11AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What, genuinely doesn’t make sense? This thread didn’t go as you planned, but I’m sure you’ll be posting about the next SF “outrage” soon.

Incorrect, my friend, you need to grow a thicker skin,and study the old adage

“What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”.

There is a poster here who delivered circa 550 INDIVIDUAL posts defending SF on a recent issue so I’m afraid I have a long way to go to match that kind of zealous behavior.

FrancieBrady · 06-02-2018 08:15AM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Incorrect, my friend, you need to grow a thicker skin,and study the old adage

“What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”.

There is a poster here who delivered circa 550 INDIVIDUAL posts defending SF on a recent issue so I’m afraid I have a long way to go to match that kind of zealous behavior.

Nothing zealous about it Brendi.
A leg in a cast, boredom and the joy of seeing faux outrage, would explain 550 posts. You kept coming back anyway.

Need to go back and earn a crust now.

You keep watch now, see can you get a Shinner for littering or sumfink.

Jawgap · 06-02-2018 08:17AM

cycle4fun wrote: »

96% of Claire Byrne poll said they would break the speed limit if they were in a hurry and they knew they would get away with it.

"Removing all signage" will only get you in to trouble sooner or later too.

I'd do that, except just before I'd do it I'd ring one of the kids (so a call is logged), snip the clamp and claim a defence of recaption (recovering chattels improperly or illegally detained).....

.....I'm surprised that if Geraldo was heading to an urgent appointment he didn't run that defence

McMurphy · 06-02-2018 08:29AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I'd do that, except just before I'd do it I'd ring one of the kids (so a call is logged), snip the clamp and claim a defence of recaption (recovering chattels improperly or illegally detained).....

.....I'm surprised that if Geraldo was heading to an urgent appointment he didn't run that defence

Didn't Kelly say it was a "spur of the moment decision"? Whereas you have had several days and numerous posts to come up with your defence?

Something c4fun forgot (I'm sure it wasn't on purpose) to mention was that there was either a political or legal editor (can't quite remember) from the sindo on the show [Claire Byrne] who explained that it was entirely legal to remove a clamp from private clampers - so long as you didn't damage it in doing so. She explained that most people wouldn't have the equipment needed to remove said clamp - hence why the clampers rely on those who are clamped paying.

Kelly had the good fortune of being out side a gym who had industrial bolt cutters for members who may have misplaced keys or combination of padlocks for their lockers. But had the misfortune to be filmed removing the clamp.

No doubt the shinners piled the pressure on him to stump up and pay the fine - PR and all that.

Brendan Bendar · 06-02-2018 08:32AM

All this could have been avoided by just parking in a proper space?

Has me baffled to be honest, no need to be cutting anything, no need to ring anyone, remove signage, do interviews ,pay fines!!!

Just forking park where you are meant to park.

It’s so simple

Jawgap · 06-02-2018 08:35AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Didn't Kelly say it was a "spur of the moment decision"? Whereas you have had several days and numerous posts to come up with your defence?

Something c4fun forgot (I'm sure it wasn't on purpose) to mention was that there was either a political or legal editor (can't quite remember) from the sindo on the show [Claire Byrne] who explained that it was entirely legal to remove a clamp from private clampers - so long as you didn't damage it in doing so. She explained that most people wouldn't have the equipment needed to remove said clamp - hence why the clampers rely on those who are clamped paying.

Kelly had the good fortune of being out side a gym who had industrial bolt cutters for members who may have misplaced keys or combination of padlocks for their lockers. But had the misfortune to be filmed removing the clamp.

No doubt the shinners piled the pressure on him to stump up and pay the fine - PR and all that.

Several days? Not at all - that's the usual defence to a car being clamped on private property.

And sure wasn't his legal team dealing with it, and they had just as long, and, I assume, unlike me, they're actually practising.

McMurphy · 06-02-2018 08:42AM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

All this could have been avoided by just parking in a proper space?

Has me baffled to be honest, no need to be cutting anything, no need to ring anyone, remove signage, do interviews ,pay fines!!!

Just forking park where you are meant to park.

It’s so simple

Brenner when all is said and done - and has been explained to you on multiple occasions now - legally Kelly was quite within his rights to remove the clamp.

He said he had meetings to attend and couldn't get through to the clamping firm to try and resolve the matter , so took things into his own hands.

Would it be correct to say you may just have been trying to make a bit of political hay?

McMurphy · 06-02-2018 08:47AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Several days? Not at all - that's the usual defence to a car being clamped on private property.

And sure wasn't his legal team dealing with it, and they had just as long, and, I assume, unlike me, they're actually practising.

Perhaps that's the road the legal team may have taken had push came to shove, but for now we can only go by what Kelly said to the media.

Seems to be a bit of a song and dance over nothing if you ask me. And before I get labelled as a shinners defender, let me point out that from the offset I condemned McElduffs behaviour and called for his immediate resignation - as I believed his actions (intentional or not) where of bad taste.

It would be hypocritical of me to condemn Kelly's actions as I would remove a clamp put on by the scourge of private clampers from any of my vehicles in the blink of an eye.

Jawgap · 06-02-2018 08:49AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Brenner when all is said and done - and has been explained to you on multiple occasions now - legally Kelly was quite within his rights to remove the clamp.

He said he had meetings to attend and couldn't get through to the clamping firm to try and resolve the matter , so took things into his own hands.

Would it be correct to say you may just have been trying to make a bit of political hay?

Then why pay the fine and for the damage?

Mr Kelly said he had agreed to pay a fine to the clamping company and also for the damage to the clamp.

Jawgap · 06-02-2018 08:54AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Perhaps that's the road the legal team may have taken had push came to shove, but for now we can only go by what Kelly said to the media.

Seems to be a bit of a song and dance over nothing if you ask me. And before I get labelled as a shinners defender, let me point out that from the offset I condemned McElduffs behaviour and called for his immediate resignation - as I believed his actions (intentional or not) where of bad taste.

It would be hypocritical of me to condemn Kelly's actions as I would remove a clamp put on by the scourge of private clampers from any of my vehicles in the blink of an eye.

Well, well done you.....let me guess, you're not a member of SF either.....isn't that the usual line taken?

And I would remove the clamp, but I'd do it lawfully - and even if I didn't know the law but was subsequently advised my actions were lawful I'd not be paying any fine - why would you? Even if the other party sued they'd lose and have to cover your costs.

And yes, it is a storm in a thimble - let's face it he's done infinitely worse things than snip a lock and the Shinners still defend him for those actions, and even celebrate him for it.

McMurphy · 06-02-2018 09:14AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Well, well done you.....let me guess, you're not a member of SF either.....isn't that the usual line taken?

You'd be correct on that one. However I have voted for them - prob will again.

And I would remove the clamp, but I'd do it lawfully - and even if I didn't know the law but was subsequently advised my actions were lawful I'd not be paying any fine - why would you? Even if the other party sued they'd lose and have to cover your costs.

I would snip a link on the clamp - in my line of work I'd say that would take me 5 mins tops. Then I would leave clamp against a wall and call the private firm informing them where they could find it. I reckon a lot more people who weren't aware they could do that before this thread might follow suit.

And yes, it is a storm in a thimble - let's face it he's done infinitely worse things than snip a lock and the Shinners still defend him for those actions, and even celebrate him for it.

We'll agree on that.

You only have to look at the threads that covered your man Conlan up in Monaghan - he broke a glass and slashed one of the patrons in a pub (one of his own constituents) funny thing is - a lot of the old familiar posters from this thread where eerily absent from those.

Political hay I said.

Jawgap · 06-02-2018 09:17AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You'd be correct on that one. However I have voted for them - prob will again.

I would snip a link on the clamp - in my line of work I'd say that would take me 5 mins tops. Then I would leave clamp against a wall and call the private firm informing them where they could find it. I reckon a lot more people who weren't aware they could do that before this thread might follow suit.

We'll agree on that.

You only have to look at the threads that covered your man Conlan up in Monaghan - he broke a glass and slashed one of the patrons in a pub (one of his own constituents) funny thing is - a lot of the old familiar posters from this thread where eerily absent from those.

Political hay I said.

Imagine that.....SF being discussed in an SF thread, who'd have thunk it :rolleyes:

Phoebas · 06-02-2018 09:23AM

This thread is gas.
Even after Gerry Kelly himself has admitted he was wrong, regrets what he did and has paid for his transgression, SF supporters still insist that he did no wrong.

Lads, when ye are blindly following the party lead you still need to open your eyes from time to time just to check where they are gone.

VinLieger · 06-02-2018 09:36AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Brenner when all is said and done - and has been explained to you on multiple occasions now - legally Kelly was quite within his rights to remove the clamp.

Indeed but he also caused criminal damage by using the bolt cutters so he also broke the law

Im sure he knows a few good lads with lock picking skills and he should have called them, similarly id be in no doubt most "good republicans" would have on speed dial a name of someone able to remove a cars axle in no time at all for numerous purposes...... which would also have been an entirely legal way to remove the clamp without causing criminal damage

Brendan Bendar · 06-02-2018 09:37AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Imagine that.....SF being discussed in an SF thread, who'd have thunk it :rolleyes:

Jawgap, it's amazing the amount of SF defenders who spring up when legitimate points of view are aired.

They seem to develope a very thin skin when their own lot get in 'a bit of bother'
yet they are like African hunting dogs when anyone in power appears to 'transgress' .

What I can't understand is why Mr Kelly didn't park in a designated parking spot?

Surely that is the easiest,most simple method to avoid all this attention.

Surely he didn't think, like poor Pat, sure it's only me,I can park where I like,haven't I been ignoring these signs for years and getting away with it.

It's that kind of perceived arrogance that gets to people rather than an isolated act itself.

Brendan Bendar · 06-02-2018 09:47AM

Phoebas wrote: »

This thread is gas.
Even after Gerry Kelly himself has admitted he was wrong, regrets what he did and has paid for his transgression, SF supporters still insist that he did no wrong.

Lads, when ye are blindly following the party lead you still need to open your eyes from time to time just to check where they are gone.

It is indeed Phoebas,but is par for the course.

These lads seem to spring out of the woodwork in situations like this, often, very often indeed, flogging a dead horse long long after those involved have either resigned or admitted wrongdoing .

Your advice in your last sentence should be heeded by them.

ohnonotgmail · 06-02-2018 10:28AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Didn't Kelly say it was a "spur of the moment decision"? Whereas you have had several days and numerous posts to come up with your defence?

Something c4fun forgot (I'm sure it wasn't on purpose) to mention was that there was either a political or legal editor (can't quite remember) from the sindo on the show [Claire Byrne] who explained that it was entirely legal to remove a clamp from private clampers - so long as you didn't damage it in doing so. She explained that most people wouldn't have the equipment needed to remove said clamp - hence why the clampers rely on those who are clamped paying.

Kelly had the good fortune of being out side a gym who had industrial bolt cutters for members who may have misplaced keys or combination of padlocks for their lockers. But had the misfortune to be filmed removing the clamp.

No doubt the shinners piled the pressure on him to stump up and pay the fine - PR and all that.

how exactly do you remove a clamp with a pair of bolt cutters without causing damage?

blanch152 · 06-02-2018 10:29AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Brenner when all is said and done - and has been explained to you on multiple occasions now - legally Kelly was quite within his rights to remove the clamp.

He said he had meetings to attend and couldn't get through to the clamping firm to try and resolve the matter , so took things into his own hands.

Would it be correct to say you may just have been trying to make a bit of political hay?

More deflection, just stick to the simple facts.

Legally, he wasn't within his rights to park where he parked.

Unlike McElduff, this is not a resigning matter, however, it does illustrate Sinn Fein's loose approach to legality.

Another Sinn Fein blunder?

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