Ireland 2040 plan "will kill rural Ireland"

marno21 · 31-01-2018 5:16pm #1

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ireland-2040-strategy-will-kill-rural-ireland-according-to-coalition-825724.html

Deja vu anyone?

CarlosHarpic · 31-01-2018 5:21pm

These kinds of people are driven by one thing only when you really get down to it. The GAA. It always comes down to making sure that the Parish Games have enough players in each muddy rain-soaked field next to a packed church for sunday mass. I have also long suspected that the GAA is unoffically involved in 'sweetening' these kinds of groups. The Catholic Church too. The weaponised Comley Maidiens faction.

Apart from their own myopia, they only other function they serve is to hold this country back and make it as expensive as possible.

LeinsterDub · 31-01-2018 5:23pm

Ironically rural Ireland is being killed by the one off housing / road frontage brigade. The same people who are complaining about this plan.

draiochtanois · 31-01-2018 5:39pm

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CarlosHarpic · 31-01-2018 6:03pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Dominant Gaelic football team in Ireland?? Dublin... Cop on to yourself, The GAA does far more good than bad. Blaming the GAA for the problems facing rural Ireland is idiotic. It's an amazing association that communities are built around. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If it wasn't for the GAA rural Ireland would be in an even worse place than it is now.

What if you live in rural Ireland and do not play the Parish Games? Suicide?

You are also full of it. I know lots of planning decisions granted based on providing players for local parish clubs. This is a huge aspect of the one off housing ffs.

One player got planning permission for a large house with expansive frontage on a busy new N road (for his tractors) because he said he would play for the next parish if he did not get it. This kind of muppertry goes on constantly.

_Brian · 31-01-2018 6:04pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Of course those of us born and working here deserve local services too.

CarlosHarpic · 31-01-2018 6:17pm

Also, observe the devious tactics of these rural mullahs. A major part of the 2040 plan is to finally make proper cities of Limerick, Cork and Waterford. Which is what makes it really good in my books. Yet what do they mention DUBLIN Airport.

Those of you defending these clowns on here don't be complaining when the Metro is cancelled because of them.

This is why we are the way we are infrastructure wise. The reason why Dublin is never developed begins as culture (GAA clubs and parish halls) in rural Ireland long before it becomes national politics.

You should be very afraid of these clowns. They have more influence over politicians and senior civil servants than the best planning and transportation consultants on the planet.

draiochtanois · 31-01-2018 6:25pm

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LeinsterDub · 31-01-2018 6:36pm

_Brian wrote: »

Of course those of us born and working here deserve local services too.

Where exactly is local when you've kilometers upon kilometers of one off housing?

Reati · 31-01-2018 6:40pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What a sh*tty attitude. Seriously.

They pay taxes for those services just like you. Public services are not a business or profit making exercise. All people who live in this county deserve the necessary public services no matter where they choose to live.

If you don't think the Government of Ireland should provide services to "the blight" then there should be a rural tax refund as they aren't getting services.

I'd take rural Ireland any day over living beside Fintan,Grace Chloe and their 2.3 kids in a 3 bed semi in South Dublin by the Luas line with views of the mountains through the apartment blocks next door.

LeinsterDub · 31-01-2018 6:47pm

Reati wrote: »

What a sh*tty attitude. Seriously.

They pay taxes for those services just like you. Public services are not a business or profit making exercise. All people who live in this county deserve the necessary public services no matter where they choose to live.

If you don't think the Government of Ireland should provide services to "the blight" then there should be a rural tax refund as they aren't getting services.

I'd take rural Ireland any day over living beside Fintan,Grace Chloe and their 2.3 kids in a 3 bed semi in South Dublin by the Luas line with views of the mountains through the apartment blocks next door.

Great I'm off to Rockall. When can I expect my school, hospital, roads, etc?

There is already a rural tax refund its called the subvention of Ireland by Dublin.

31-01-2018 6:52pm

The GAA is great........ if you are on the team.

The higher the level of the team, the more benefit you get from the GAA.

Otherwise, the GAA does nothing for anyone in the community that does not benefit them directly

draiochtanois · 31-01-2018 6:52pm

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MayoSalmon · 31-01-2018 6:54pm

Except Dublin and the greater Leinster region where almost 50% of the population live already heavily subside rural Ireland.

If rural Ireland were to rely on the taxation they pay alone it would look like a region out of a 3rd World country

31-01-2018 6:54pm

Reati wrote: »

What a sh*tty attitude. Seriously.

They pay taxes for those services just like you. Public services are not a business or profit making exercise. All people who live in this county deserve the necessary public services no matter where they choose to live.

If you don't think the Government of Ireland should provide services to "the blight" then there should be a rural tax refund as they aren't getting services.

I'd take rural Ireland any day over living beside Fintan,Grace Chloe and their 2.3 kids in a 3 bed semi in South Dublin by the Luas line with views of the mountains through the apartment blocks next door.

A view of the mountains, you'll pay well for that

draiochtanois · 31-01-2018 6:55pm

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suicide_circus · 31-01-2018 6:55pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Ironically rural Ireland is being killed by the one off housing / road frontage brigade.

Don't forget the stone cladding and Roman pillars!

31-01-2018 6:57pm

The rural > urban move has been going since the industrial revolution.

Short of the technology of the world ceasing to function, its not going to change

spacetweek · 31-01-2018 7:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The rural > urban move has been going since the industrial revolution.

Short of the technology of the world ceasing to function, its not going to change

Agreed. During recessions it’s true that most intra-migration is economically based but rural to urban migration occurs during booms too.

There’s this idea out there that rural young people are forced to move to cities but mostly they want to, it’s not just about jobs. Lifestyle too.

looksee · 31-01-2018 8:53pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Could you expand on that please?

sdanseo · 31-01-2018 9:42pm

Rural Ireland has been destroyed by one off houses for the best part of a century making it difficult to provide services in clusters like towns or villages.

Our larger rural towns are ignored and cities like Cork and Galway are screaming for basic infrastructure (like a road around them; or anything more than the most basic bus service).

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Ironically rural Ireland is being killed by the one off housing / road frontage brigade. The same people who are complaining about this plan.

This, a million times this.

All of this failure, and yet the task force established to draw attention to it begins life by criticising the lack of rural airports.

We don't need rural airports. Airlines are not investing in our rural airports because we a small island nation. One major international airport is enough. Look at the Netherlands - a bit smaller than Ireland but with 17m people and two major aiports, Schipol carrying 68 million (twice that of Dublin) and Eindhoven, which is comparable to Cork.

These guys are doing themselves a disservice by highlighting the wrong things.

Nermal · 31-01-2018 10:40pm

2040 is too far away. How can we speed this up?

CarlosHarpic · 31-01-2018 11:01pm

sdanseo wrote: »

These guys are doing themselves a disservice by highlighting the wrong things.

This is how these creatures are wired. The can't function any other way. Remember WEst On Track? They wanted public transport in the west of Ireland... Great so let's create a fully timetabled rural bus network feeding into Galway, Limerick and Sligo. So instead, they demand some single track linefor the best part of a billion euros to meander three trains a day to cities already rail connected. I was roaring laughing at some WoT hysteric on the radio screaming about 'we are living on the reservation out side the Pale!!!' I stopped laughing when the DoT cut them a cheque for 300 million and the Dart Underground and the Metro was cancelled.

'we want deh train boyo and we have a priest!'

CarlosHarpic · 31-01-2018 11:05pm

looksee wrote: »

Could you expand on that please?

I think he means the overall tax take and the transfer of the income from urban regions like Dublin and Cork into the rest of the country.

D.L.R. · 31-01-2018 11:30pm

And Rural Ireland has been killing Urban Ireland for decades. Progress is a bitch.

marno21 · 31-01-2018 11:32pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

And Rural Ireland has been killing Urban Ireland for decades. Progress is a bitch.

In addition..

Rural Ireland has been holding up rural Ireland for decades. Town centres becoming derelict whilst every approach road gets lined with thousands of one off houses.

31-01-2018 11:40pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

>>> 100% agree <<<

Everyone wants to live in their ugly monstrosity on an acre while simultaneously complaining about the lack of nearby services

I'm quite happy living in my <house designed around the surrounding landscape> on my over an acre without services on my doorstep. But go ahead and generalise, really intelligent way to debate.

sdanseo · 31-01-2018 11:46pm

368100 wrote: »

I'm quite happy living in my <house designed around the surrounding landscape> on my over an acre without services on my doorstep. But go ahead and generalise, really intelligent way to debate.

I'm sure there are many thousands of people very happy in their rural houses each on an acre of land. Wonder how much of it you utilise other than for staring at.

Unfortunately the collective are causing planning to be an uphill struggle and even more unfortunately a quick peek at google maps tells you the damage is done.

31-01-2018 11:51pm

sdanseo wrote: »

I'm sure there are many thousands of people very happy in their rural houses each on an acre of land. Wonder how much of it you utilise other than for staring at.

Unfortunately the collective are causing planning to be an uphill struggle and even more unfortunately a quick peek at google maps tells you the damage is done.

Well its my land, bought and paid for by me so I'm perfectly entitled to utilise it or not as I want.

sdanseo · 31-01-2018 11:54pm

368100 wrote: »

Well its my land, bought and paid for by me so I'm perfectly entitled to utilise it or not as I want.

Within the confines of the Planning Acts, which unfortunately are not restrictive enough.

No one is blaming you, I'm blaming national policy over decades.

01-02-2018 12:02am

sdanseo wrote: »

Within the confines of the Planning Acts, which unfortunately are not restrictive enough.

No one is blaming you, I'm blaming national policy over decades.

Im certainly open to the argument about policy, not argoing it's what it should be. My original point was about the generalisation that all rural dwellers do nothing but complain, which isn't true. I spend 4 hours a day commuting in and out of Dublin, again not complaining as it's the price I pay for living where I do. I also like the balance of being in the city during the day and getting out to the country each evening, best of both worlds (for me)

looksee · 01-02-2018 12:08am

sdanseo wrote: »

I'm sure there are many thousands of people very happy in their rural houses each on an acre of land. Wonder how much of it you utilise other than for staring at.

Unfortunately the collective are causing planning to be an uphill struggle and even more unfortunately a quick peek at google maps tells you the damage is done.

As well as staring at it, there is also the requirement for sufficient space for a septic tank (service paid for by the occupier) and a well (ditto) at regulation distance from each other, and the boundaries, and other premises etc.

And in fact the majority of these houses are not on an acre, they are on a half acre.

This is not a vote for one-off ribbon development, but planning departments are now changing the situation. It is getting staggeringly difficult to obtain planning and pretty much impossible for the kind of one off houses you are discussing. The ones that are already there - and I agree there are some eyesores - were permitted, its hard to blame the people living there for choosing to use the land as they were allowed to.

The implied suggestion in the thread that the entire population should be confined to cities is not very realistic; how is agriculture to be managed, and the services for agriculture, and the services for people engaged in agriculture, schools, shops etc, and the people offering those services, and so on and on.

John_Rambo · 01-02-2018 12:24am

looksee wrote: »

Could you expand on that please?

In terms of income tax, corporation tax, capital gains and VAT, Dublin pays 55pc of the total country with only having 28pc of the population!

In 21 counties, households receive more benifits than they pay in tax in the aggregate! The exceptions are Dublin, three of its adjoining counties, that's Kildare, Meath and Wicklow and then Kilkenny and Cork. The economic powers that make the money for the rest of the country.

01-02-2018 12:41am

John_Rambo wrote: »

In terms of income tax, corporation tax, capital gains and VAT, Dublin pays 55pc of the total country with only having 28pc of the population!

In 21 counties, households receive more benifits than they pay in tax in the aggregate! The exceptions are Dublin, three of its adjoining counties, that's Kildare, Meath and Wicklow and then Kilkenny and Cork. The economic powers that make the money for the rest of the country.

Is that data based on where the taxpayer lives or where the business they work for is based?

CarlosHarpic · 01-02-2018 1:43am

Deedsie wrote: »

Thousands of children playing Gaelic games every year organised by volunteers. GAA clubs up and down the country are opening their facilities to provide a safe place for people to walk and exercise at night.

Talk **** about the GAA all you want, talking rubbish in my opinion. Also forms a community spirit for areas.

*yawn* the GAA are just a (barely) secular version of the Catholic church. The are a huge part of the issue. I am amazed people here can't see this. All them ribbon houses lead to GAA pitches in the end. Any time there is a mention of rural depopulation it always comes down to some townland not having enough players to field a bogball team being the main issue.

This "crisis" eventually becomes the mess we are in now.

Charles Babbage · 01-02-2018 1:51am

CarlosHarpic wrote: »

These kinds of people are driven by one thing only when you really get down to it. The GAA. It always comes down to making sure that the Parish Games have enough players in each muddy rain-soaked field next to a packed church for sunday mass. I have also long suspected that the GAA is unoffically involved in 'sweetening' these kinds of groups. The Catholic Church too. The weaponised Comley Maidiens faction.

Apart from their own myopia, they only other function they serve is to hold this country back and make it as expensive as possible.

Can citizens of the country not expect the government to serve all of the citizens in all places? Why should anyone want the decimation of their own community and if they community has enough spirit to organise a team then they are all the more suitable for dismantling in your view? The increased expense will come when everyone has to move to €500,000 apartments in Dublin which is exactly what the property interests funding the politicians want. Are these property interests funding some shills in this thread? This is about as reasonable a suggestion as the the above. Or perhaps British interests want everyone to move to the Pale.

Tell me how · 01-02-2018 1:54am

CarlosHarpic wrote:

These kinds of people are driven by one thing only when you really get down to it. The GAA. It always comes down to making sure that the Parish Games have enough players in each muddy rain-soaked field next to a packed church for sunday mass. I have also long suspected that the GAA is unoffically involved in 'sweetening' these kinds of groups. The Catholic Church too. The weaponised Comley Maidiens faction.

Apart from their own myopia, they only other function they serve is to hold this country back and make it as expensive as possible.

This. This is nonsense. All of it. Every bit.

ED E · 01-02-2018 2:00am

Reati wrote: »

What a sh*tty attitude. Seriously.

They pay taxes for those services just like you. Public services are not a business or profit making exercise. All people who live in this county deserve the necessary public services no matter where they choose to live.

If you don't think the Government of Ireland should provide services to "the blight" then there should be a rural tax refund as they aren't getting services.

I'd take rural Ireland any day over living beside Fintan,Grace Chloe and their 2.3 kids in a 3 bed semi in South Dublin by the Luas line with views of the mountains through the apartment blocks next door.

Yeah, but everything costs more when you're inefficiently spaced. Take a Dublin postman, he makes a drop ever 40-60 seconds, a rural one makes one every 3-10 minutes maybe. Far less effective for the same wage, so you need more.

Nobody in Europe has dwelling patterns like us (excepting parts of the UK). Know why? 'Cause its bloody stupid.

Del2005 · 01-02-2018 2:25am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Can citizens of the country not expect the government to serve all of the citizens in all places? Why should anyone want the decimation of their own community and if they community has enough spirit to organise a team then they are all the more suitable for dismantling in your view? The increased expense will come when everyone has to move to €500,000 apartments in Dublin which is exactly what the property interests funding the politicians want. Are these property interests funding some shills in this thread? This is about as reasonable a suggestion as the the above. Or perhaps British interests want everyone to move to the Pale.

There's no requirement to move to Dublin, or any city, all that needs to happen is people move to the village or town. Then it's easy to provide facilities for people. The way it is now is that people need cars so skip the local village or town and then complain that the village is dieing as they drive past it.

Doltanian · 01-02-2018 6:34am

We are much closer to America in this policy, Irish love their Space and living in towns and cities is prohibitively expensive because our planners refuse to build upwards. I live in almost 400 acres in our house and farm my great grand parents fought the English for. What rural Ireland needs more than anything else is fibre optic broadband and improved access to the cities for commuting ideally not by car.

Malayalam · 01-02-2018 7:01am

Choices, choices. Live in the city on top of the neighbours drinking recycled sewage or live in the sticks where you can shatter the beautiful quiet with loud love making.....it's a tough one

worded · 01-02-2018 7:55am

Malayalam wrote: »

Choices, choices. Live in the city on top of the neighbours drinking recycled sewage or live in the sticks where you can shatter the beautiful quiet with loud love making.....it's a tough one

Lots of threads about brothels and badly sound proofed apartments where the neighbours might as well be in the sitting room with you. No thanks to Irish no regulation cheap apartments. Funk that

Malayalam · 01-02-2018 8:26am

worded wrote: »

Lots of threads about brothels and badly sound proofed apartments where the neighbours might as well be in the sitting room with you. No thanks to Irish no regulation cheap apartments. Funk that

Yup. Your fridge and their fridge can make beautiful music together.

I guess the embarrassingly-intimate groans of the neighbours getting it on could serve as an erotic encouragement to city dwellers. So, there's that.

LeinsterDub · 01-02-2018 8:29am

Doltanian wrote: »

We are much closer to America in this policy, Irish love their Space and living in towns and cities is prohibitively expensive because our planners refuse to build upwards. I live in almost 400 acres in our house and farm my great grand parents fought the English for. What rural Ireland needs more than anything else is fibre optic broadband and improved access to the cities for commuting ideally not by car.

How can you provide transport from areas with population densities in the single figures per km. The issue of course is you have to get into your car to drive to the bus stop sure at that stage you may be going 15 minutes out of your way on a half an hour journey.

Mickiemcfist · 01-02-2018 9:03am

John_Rambo wrote: »

In terms of income tax, corporation tax, capital gains and VAT, Dublin pays 55pc of the total country with only having 28pc of the population!

In 21 counties, households receive more benifits than they pay in tax in the aggregate! The exceptions are Dublin, three of its adjoining counties, that's Kildare, Meath and Wicklow and then Kilkenny and Cork. The economic powers that make the money for the rest of the country.

As a city dweller, even I think this post is ridiculous. This is a problem caused by unevenly spread FDI, it's hardly that Dublin workers are working harder. It's that the government are using Dublin as a selling point to get Facebook, Google, Microsoft etc. To base themselves here & they're paying corporation tax as a Dublin based business, you'll find a lot of staff there are from outside Ireland, or not from Dublin.

I really think the Govt should be giving further grants for businesses to start in other cities, Kilkenny, Limerick Waterford etc.

LeinsterDub · 01-02-2018 9:09am

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I really think the Govt should be giving further grants for businesses to start in other cities, Kilkenny, Limerick Waterford etc.

If brexit proves anything its that it's hard enough to attract major players to Dublin let alone small provincial towns

Del2005 · 01-02-2018 9:28am

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

As a city dweller, even I think this post is ridiculous. This is a problem caused by unevenly spread FDI, it's hardly that Dublin workers are working harder. It's that the government are using Dublin as a selling point to get Facebook, Google, Microsoft etc. To base themselves here & they're paying corporation tax as a Dublin based business, you'll find a lot of staff there are from outside Ireland, or not from Dublin.

I really think the Govt should be giving further grants for businesses to start in other cities, Kilkenny, Limerick Waterford etc.

There's no grant available for companies to set up in the Greater Dublin area and there are huge grants for the BMW region. The thing is that the companies are not choosing between Dublin or Cork/Limerick they are choosing between Dublin and Paris/Frankfort and on that stage Dublin is a tiny city with crap infrastructure which is being held back by parish pump politics, which are spiting the whole country to make sure that Dublin does not get proper development.

Mickiemcfist · 01-02-2018 9:39am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If brexit proves anything its that it's hard enough to attract major players to Dublin let alone small provincial towns

The majority of FS positions Dublin is getting due to Brexit are pretty basic back office administration jobs, these could be done by anyone with a business degree, they're not 300k a year highly qualified jobs, they're 30-50k. All they need is high quality internet & a pool of basic talent at any of the colleges in the Cities I named. 30-50k isn't as appealing in Dublin as it is in other EU cities as there's exceptionally high cost of living in Dublin. Limerick, Kilkenny & Waterford however don't have as high a cost of living. State Street are down in Kilkenny.

LeinsterDub · 01-02-2018 9:43am

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

The majority of FS positions Dublin is getting due to Brexit are pretty basic back office administration jobs, these could be done by anyone with a business degree, they're not 300k a year highly qualified jobs, they're 30-50k. All they need is high quality internet & a pool of basic talent at any of the colleges in the Cities I named. 30-50k isn't as appealing in Dublin as it is in other EU cities as there's exceptionally high cost of living in Dublin. Limerick, Kilkenny & Waterford however don't have as high a cost of living. State Street are down in Kilkenny.

And yet the fact remains that they aren't in the cities/towns you named. Go figure

tastyt · 01-02-2018 9:56am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Ironically rural Ireland is being killed by the one off housing / road frontage brigade. The same people who are complaining about this plan.

Just on this, I totally agree, its no wonder rural towns and villages are soulless with half the people living a mile or two outside and shopping in retail parks or even bigger towns nearby.

Im just wondering though, does the uk have the same issues?? It seems any time ive been there that the rural towns and villages have much more of a buzz and community feel to them, is it a planning permission issue?

Mickiemcfist · 01-02-2018 9:56am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And yet the fact remains that they aren't in the cities/towns you named. Go figure

Except state street, as I mentioned, and others I didn't. They're not promoted well enough, as was my original point. I've in a previous role abroad been contacted by the IDA looking for FDI & it was Dublin they were pitching.

Ireland 2040 plan "will kill rural Ireland"

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