NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

KOR101 · 31-01-2018 04:59PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

The Department are ploughing ahead with enet apparently.

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/958727512611262464

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/958727892292300800

Enet are at least more biddable.

I think I remember a report that the Department was unhappy about the amount of wireless that Enet were proposing.

There is actually no harm in progressing with Enet and seeing whether they can get it done for an acceptable price and with acceptable technology. I guess things will be held up until the proposed legislation passes and any challenges are dealt with. Eir withdrawing suggests they don't think they face any sort of real threat to their rural monopoly.

turbbo · 31-01-2018 05:01PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

I think its a shame that the only provider that was actually rolling out fibre to rural areas is out.

Whatever you think of Eir and their motives with 300k they have the experience and personnel in place to roll out the NBP.

It was a shame when Siro pulled out too - the idea of a tender process is that you have bidders. Having 2 bidders was just barely acceptable having one bidder is laughable.

purpleisafruit · 31-01-2018 05:07PM

I'm at a point where I don't care who supplies broadband to me as long as it's unlimited/high usage limit and the speed is consistent 24/7.

Gonzo · 31-01-2018 05:08PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

I think its a shame that the only provider that was actually rolling out fibre to rural areas is out.

Whatever you think of Eir and their motives with 300k they have the experience and personnel in place to roll out the NBP.

that's very true. I am not a fan of Eir the retail end of things, but they were the only company doing anything about proper broadband in rural areas. OpenEir with the help of KN were doing a very good job, however it is taking a lot slower than all of us originally hoped.

Now that they have learned how to do FTTH and see many of the problems associated with it, they can proceed to upgrade the urban areas currently left on aging copper. Even their FTTC network is aging and that has been far surpassed by Virgin Media. It is only a matter of time before Virgin offer speeds of 1000 megs and it's going to take Eir years to upgrade urban areas.

Rural areas that currently or soon will have FTTH live, will probably always get looked after too in regard to future speed upgrades, however I'd like to think there would at least be a plan to place to connect new homes along these existing rural fibre routes.

It's a real shame what has happened. Enet are now the only remaining party and there is rumours that they may pull the plug too. If they don't then how are they going to deliver to over 500k rural homes.

The only party who's probably throwing a party right now is Imagine. Their current LTE coverage zones are secured for a long time to come at this stage and can probably comfortably roll out more masts to more rural areas, knowing that Eir and Siro are out of the picture completely.

Johnboy1951 · 31-01-2018 05:10PM

KOR101 wrote: »

Enet are at least more biddable.

I think I remember a report that the Department was unhappy about the amount of wireless that Enet were proposing.

There is actually no harm in progressing with Enet and seeing whether they can get it done for an acceptable price and with acceptable technology. I guess things will be held up until the proposed legislation passes and any challenges are dealt with. Eir withdrawing suggests they don't think they face any sort of real threat to their rural monopoly.

Makes me wonder ....... if eir could sue the gov if they changed their mind about the NBP, for the costs incurred in preparing their (eir) proposal, is there any way the gov could sue eir for pulling out of the process at this late stage, for all the costs incurred by the eir submission? ......... ok wishful thinking on my part, but it would seem that such a withdrawal should be subject to sanctions.
If only life were as simple as that ....

shigllgetcha · 31-01-2018 05:19PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Makes me wonder ....... if eir could sue the gov if they changed their mind about the NBP, for the costs incurred in preparing their (eir) proposal,

Highly unlikely, it was a tendering process, companies bid on tenders every day of the week that dont come to anything

Johnboy1951 · 31-01-2018 05:22PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Highly unlikely, it was a tendering process, companies bid on tenders every day of the week that dont come to anything

I think (though not sure) that having tendered they were then named as one of three on a short list, then they might well have some cause to seek redress.

TimHorton · 31-01-2018 05:23PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Highly unlikely, it was a tendering process, companies bid on tenders every day of the week that dont come to anything

So was giving eir the 300k low hanging fruit now an expensive mistake by the government ?

joe_99 · 31-01-2018 05:26PM

TimHorton wrote: »

So was giving eir the 300k low hanging fruit now an expensive mistake by the government ?

The government didn't give eir the 300k. They had zero way of stopping a licenced network provider building a network.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 31-01-2018 05:26PM

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/eir-has-quit-the-national-broadband-plan-but-government-insists-rollout-will-continue-36552103.html

However, McCourt said that access to Eir infrastructure is “crucial” for the National Broadband Plan to succeed and that “more work has to be done” to make this happen.

This could be the next major stumbling block.

TimHorton · 31-01-2018 05:29PM

joe_99 wrote: »

The government didn't give eir the 300k. They had zero way of stopping a licenced network provider building a network.

Were the 300k not removed form the NBP and thus made the NBP less attractive to Vodafone/SIRO who pulled out soon after.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 31-01-2018 05:32PM

joe_99 wrote: »

The government didn't give eir the 300k. They had zero way of stopping a licenced network provider building a network.

That is true but it is looking likely now that the Department opted for the wrong ownership model. This project should have been built and owned by the State with capacity leased to operators as they required it. This option was turned down on cost reasons and perhaps political ideology. It is now coming back to bite them.

shigllgetcha · 31-01-2018 05:32PM

TimHorton wrote: »

Were they not removed form the NBP and thus made the NBP less attractive to Vodafone/SIRO who pulled out soon after.

Yeh but they couldnt stop eir going ahead and providing fibre if they wanted to. They were in the NBP because no one wanted to give them internet.

I dont know if there was a sweetheart deal or not though or Eir just felt that they could make money on the 300k or if they felt doing it would give them a stronger hand in the NBP tendering.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 31-01-2018 05:33PM

TimHorton wrote: »

Were they not removed form the NBP and thus made the NBP less attractive to Vodafone/SIRO who pulled out soon after.

Yes but under State Aid rules the Government could not subsidise a network build where a commercial entity was operating.

shigllgetcha · 31-01-2018 05:35PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

This project should have been built and owned by the State with capacity leased to operators as they required it. This option was turned down on cost reasons and perhaps political ideology. It is now coming back to bite them.

Was there an issue over government funding this or off balance rubbish? Did they think it would be unattractive for a company to come in and build infrastructure that the government would own?

Edit just saw this

Yes but under State Aid rules the Government could not subsidise a network build where a commercial entity was operating.

Makes sense

adocholiday · 31-01-2018 05:39PM

Jaysis, as someone who was about to bid for a rural house that was outside of the 300k rollout I'm now seriously second guessing. I knew it wasn't something that was going to be resolved in the short term, but now that it may never happen I might pull the plug entirely

Gonzo · 31-01-2018 05:41PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

That is true but it is looking likely now that the Department opted for the wrong ownership model. This project should have been built and owned by the State with capacity leased to operators as they required it. This option was turned down on cost reasons and perhaps political ideology. It is now coming back to bite them.

similar to how the NBN is operated in Australia?

Gonzo · 31-01-2018 05:44PM

adocholiday wrote: »

Jaysis, as someone who was about to bid for a rural house that was outside of the 300k rollout I'm now seriously second guessing. I knew it wasn't something that was going to be resolved in the short term, but now that it may never happen I might pull the plug entirely

that's probably a wise move. If it was me, I could not move into a home that is facing years, possibly a decade or more of dongles or wireless operators. It would be much better to find a home in along the 300k rural scheme that is already passing by eircode for FTTH.

turbbo · 31-01-2018 05:44PM

adocholiday wrote: »

Jaysis, as someone who was about to bid for a rural house that was outside of the 300k rollout I'm now seriously second guessing. I knew it wasn't something that was going to be resolved in the short term, but now that it may never happen I might pull the plug entirely

It would be a major concern for me if I was buying a house.

Robxxx7 · 31-01-2018 05:46PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

That is true but it is looking likely now that the Department opted for the wrong ownership model. This project should have been built and owned by the State with capacity leased to operators as they required it. This option was turned down on cost reasons and perhaps political ideology. It is now coming back to bite them.

Couldn't agree more ..

Forget this state aid rubbish .. important infrastructure should be owned by the state and leased to operators who require access and pay the price

adocholiday · 31-01-2018 05:49PM

Gonzo wrote: »

that's probably a wise move. If it was me, I could not move into a home that is facing years, possibly a decade or more of dongles or wireless operators. It would be much better to find a home in along the 300k rural scheme that is already passing by eircode for FTTH.

I could have put up with 4G or whatever for 3-4 years with the hope of getting a half decent wired connection in the near future. I'm not a heavy broadband user. But the risk of getting nothing for as you say potentially a decade or more is too risky. It's an awful pity because the house was the only one we saw in months of searching that ticked all the boses for us otherwise.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 31-01-2018 05:49PM

Gonzo wrote: »

similar to how the NBN is operated in Australia?

The ownership model yes but the Australian NBN is probably turning out to be a bigger disaster than our own but I'm not sure that can be blamed on the model used.

TomOnBoard · 31-01-2018 05:53PM

Robxxx7 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more ..

Forget this state aid rubbish .. important infrastructure should be owned by the state and leased to operators who require access and pay the price

Too late for that now. Thanks to EU interference and the Government's privatization philosophies of the 1990s, we got rid of our state owned telecoms infrastructure through the Telecom Eireann sale. What do we do now? Buy it back? I don't think so!

We are where we are, and will have to live with those past decisions.

Gonzo · 31-01-2018 05:53PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

The ownership model yes but the Australian NBN is probably turning out to be a bigger disaster than our own but I'm not sure that can be blamed on the model used.

yeah it's a huge mess over there. It was originally meant to be all FTTH, but is now a mix of all technologies. There is huge contention in some areas and not in others. I think the operators their pay the NBN for bandwidth requirements in each area based on what they think an area requires. I know someone who has NBN fixed wireless and it operates really well. They get 50/40 most of the time and I think their data is unlimited. Not bad for wireless.

turbbo · 31-01-2018 05:58PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Too late for that now. Thanks to EU interference and the Government's privatization philosophies of the 1990s, we got rid of our state owned telecoms infrastructure through the Telecom Eireann sale. What do we do now? Buy it back? I don't think so!

We are where we are, and will have to live with those past decisions.

Mary O'Rourke - Fianna Failed.
We will never forget.

turbbo · 31-01-2018 06:02PM

I remember when it was Telecom Eireann and our phone stopped working - my mum rang from my neighbours house to complain - technician out within hours - how often do you see that happen now?

Persiancowboy · 31-01-2018 06:23PM

I don’t believe the wrong ownership model was chosen....it’s actually much more likely companies would have lost interest earlier if a state-owned model was being proposed. Companies like eir who are network owners and operators have a strong preference for owning their own networks as against renting/leasing on others.

However, most of these arguments are irrelevant. The simple fact for the department is that when you lie down with dogs you get fleas and they have basically allowed eir run as eir has done with Comreg and other market players for years). This is what incumbent operators do the world over. Department’s biggest mistake was trusting these charlatans to deliver fiber to rural Ireland.

What we now have is eir in new ownership, senior management awash with personal cash from that sale, SIRO safely dispatched to the sidelines and whoever (enet) who gets NBP contract having to pay eir for access to their poles. Eir wins on all grounds and the department is left looking like a rabbit in the headlights.

grbear · 31-01-2018 06:25PM

I should be raging about this but I'm past the point of being able to work myself up over it.

I've absolutely zero faith in there ever being a worthwhile solution put in place and I fully expect that I'll spend the rest of my days bouncing between different variants of wireless "broadband" and overpaying for the privilege of getting an inferior product.

9726_9726 · 31-01-2018 06:30PM

We all knew the writing was on the wall but to see it in black and white is absolutely shocking. This will result in rural depopulation, no question.

This day will be remembered for a long, long time.

turbbo · 31-01-2018 06:38PM

9726_9726 wrote: »

We all knew the writing was on the wall but to see it in black and white is absolutely shocking. This will result in rural depopulation, no question.

This day will be remembered for a long, long time.

I wouldn't see this as a major stumbling block. The NBP will hobble along at the pace it was going anyways. Nothing to see here etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Siro and Eir show back up in the tendering process.

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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