The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The poll that was released was released at the weekend discussed here and people showed polls of the marriage referendum. Most polls in the marriage referendum were well into the 60% or even 70%. So seeing a poll just in the mid 50% would have me worried.

Were the former after don't knows were distributed? If so the comparable figure for repeal the 8th is round 65%.

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Were the former after don't knows were distributed? If so the comparable figure for repeal the 8th is round 65%.

It could also end up in the high 40% if this isn't handled/debated well!

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You keep making this vague statement. Any evidence?

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Provide proof there are TDs supporting late term abortions please. Otherwise you are just scaremongering.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I find your assertions on this very strange. You claim to be in favour of repeal but you are always undermining it. I'm not sure I believe you are in favour of repeal at all.

To me a repeal is important but I think the most important to people to target now are those on the fence voters is the most important.
It's easy enough to figure out TD's who are against abortion and who have being campaigning in the dail for it with years and those who are middle of the road.(changed there mind over time).
Just note not all TD who have being campaigning for abortion for years are strong as others.
When the debates start's for example I don't think those who are a lot more liberal about the matter comes across well to people who are unsure of the matter or people who might vote for abortion up to twelve weeks but if they hear future governments can legislate on the matter easily and change it easily and that TD admits I'd always support the woman's choice. I think these people won't do the campaign any favors.

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Yes and make people wait another thirty years for this matter to be dealt with. I just think by debating well and not leaving very liberal people debate the mater will do a lot of help for the campaign.

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Yes thirty is a bit extreme but it would be great just to get it done and dusted this year!
I even know somebody who's said there voting to repeal because they'll no the government will just come back with another referendum and there views on abortion wouldn't be taken to kindly here.

RobertKK wrote: »

So is the unborn life inside the woman’s body her life, or a life of a different life whom is not given a choice over it’s own body, but decided upon by someone else?
A bit like a life support machine and being told you have to decide to keep it going or switch it off.
Except in most cases the life in the womb that is switched off isn’t going to die and will be fine if left to live.

That's the woman's decision to make. It's certainly not mine or anyone elses not directly connected to her and will have no impact on the lives of any of the rest of us regardless of what she decides to do.

Apart form the ones unable to travel , abortions are happening , so I don't see how anyone saying they are concerned about life can see any advantage to putting extra pressure, emotional and financial on the women and couples going through it.

RobertKK wrote: »

We all have the potential life to be alive tomorrow but we could be dead before midnight.
It is life rather than potential as the unborn is alive as it is life. Otherwise why would an abortion be used to stop the life from proceeding?
It is like any life that is ended by choice, a life that was alive is ended.

No. It is a potential life. It cannot survive without the incubation of the womb.
You cannot just think of a woman as an incubator, it IS her life. She must be allowed to make the decision for herself.
If I was to have an abortion, how will this affect you? IT WON'T. So why do you believe you have the right to stop me from accessing this service in my home country?

RobertKK wrote: »

A bit like a life support machine and being told you have to decide to keep it going or switch it off.

A bit like it except for the massive differences I guess.

With a life support machine we are speaking of an entity with rights, for whom we should have moral and ethical concern.

With abortion we are talking about a fetus that has not attained ANY attribute that ANYONE on this thread has managed to argue should cause us to afford it rights, or moral and ethical concern.

Do you often use the phrase "a bit like" to simply brush ENORMOUS differences under the carpet?

RobertKK wrote: »

So if a baby that is born is dependent on the mother and has no one else to look after it, infanticide would be ok as it directly impacts the mother’s life and her choices?

Legalised abortion leads to increased abortion rate, abortion should be rare we are told but what the Irish people are being offered is abortion for any reason up to 12 weeks and it will normalise the killing of the unborn as it has in other countries.
What we need is more help in every way for mothers to make their lives easier, rather than having some see new life as a negative and a burden, instead of having them treated as clinical waste which have been used with other rubbish to heat hospitals in the UK.

Quite often a woman just doesn't want to be pregant, end of story. You cannot insist that you should be able to "persuade" a woman not to have an abortion by providing some support for pregnancy and child rearing. If a woman simply doesn't want to go through with a pregnancy, what would she have to do to convince you that she really means it? What would it take to convince you that maybe she should get to make the final decision on what happens?

RobertKK wrote: »

Legalised abortion leads to increased abortion rate

Does it though? Have you figures on this? I would like to see them. Especially given the inherent difficulty of getting accurate figures for abortions by women in a state where it is illegal (as their abortions tend to be done in secret at home and/or in a foreign land). So I doubt your assertion here is on safe ground at all. But I am open to citations on it.

RobertKK wrote: »

What we need is more help in every way for mothers to make their lives easier

The two are NOT mutually exclusive. In fact just about everyone I have worked with in campaigning for pro-choice has also been VERY much Pro every initiative that would reduce the number of people actually having abortions.

Earlier and better sex education for example, despite comical and then abandoned claims on this thread that education in the class room has no effect outside the classroom.

Reduced cost of contraception, I do not think they should be eligible for VAT for example.

Better social welfare and parental support......... despite at least one anti abortion speaker on this thread claiming women should not get child allowance or social welfare.

And much more. We too easily forget the common ground between pro and anti choice groups. WE ALL want less abortions happening. We just disagree that abortion being illegal is the moral, or efficacious, method to attain that agenda.