2262 teachers on a career break? For 5 years?

26-01-2018 01:53PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

Plus they get 18 months salary tax free on retirement.

They don't have to work after they retire, don't forget to add that benefit to your calculation.

Tigger · 26-01-2018 02:01PM

enda wasnt o a break he was serving as a TD

he got paid the difference between his teaching wage and the cost of the sub for 30 years including increments

different to teachers going to the AE for 4 yars to get money together for a house

diomed · 26-01-2018 02:36PM

I'm retired for working in industry. I never heard of anyone on a career break. That could only happen (in my opinion) where there is a lot of slack in an organisation. Career breaks are for the benefit of the individual, not the organisation and the service it provides.

diomed · 26-01-2018 02:42PM

The thread says 2,262 teachers on a break.
The Dept of Education says 63,635 teachers.
Or 3.55% on a career break (1 in 28).

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-01-2018 02:48PM

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I know plenty of people working in the public sector who believe that incompetence is rife and many are overpaid.
I do a fair a bit of work with the public sector myself and come across plenty of examples of both, particularly in larger organisations.
Funnily enough I find schools to generally be very competently and efficiently run, much more so than in my schooldays.
Dismissing taxpayers criticisms of how their money is spent as "bitterness and ignorance" exhibits an incredible sense of superiority.
I don't know where I stand on career breaks. They seem to make sense in general but more than 2 years seems excessive, 5 years should be exceptional cases only and 30 years is completely taking the mick.

As does Private Sector workers saying, and I quote another poster on here "the majority of the public sector wouldn’t last 5 Mins in a real job given how useless and incompetent most of them are."

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-01-2018 02:53PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Only asking because there are a heap of stories out there that confirm what I'm saying, just wondering if you've any that back yours?

I used to work in the Civil Service and that's exactly how it worked.

Also, people on career breaks didn't just waltz back into the job they'd left, the minute they wanted to. They had to write to their former HR Department requesting to return and, when a vacancy at the right level arose, they would be assigned to that one. Nowadays I don't think you're even guaranteed that you will be returned to the same Government Department.
The vast majority of those who take career breaks, do so to stay at home with small children. A smaller number do it to travel or to try and set up their own business (which, if successful will provide employment for others). You can't take a career break and obtain paid employment in Ireland.

average_runner · 26-01-2018 02:56PM

griffdaddy wrote: »

It's honestly baffling how people still believe that the majority of public sector workers are both incompetent and overpaid. It really reflects a unique kind of bitterness and ignorance. They've clearly never looked at a modern public sector pay scales. They clearly think the country runs itself. The financial crisis resolved itself. Our stellar diplomatic reputation just occurred accidently overnight. Our notoriously thorough and adept revenue commissioners didn't collect record receipts last year.

Well done on solving the financial crisis that ye bloody caused!!!!!!!!
Now say that to someone who lost a love one because of it or their house!!

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-01-2018 02:57PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well done on solving the financial crisis that ye bloody caused!!!!!!!!
Now say that to someone who lost a love one because of it or their house!!

The Public Sector caused the financial crisis :eek:

Wow, there was me thinking it was Fianna Fail, the banks and global issues out of our control.

Phoebas · 26-01-2018 02:59PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Yep, but that position was still left open for him. That means for 30 years a teaching job had to be filled by a substitute teacher while Enda sat in opposition bencches.

Nice safety net if you can get it.

I don't think so,

During his speech today, Mr Kenny turned directly to the topic saying: 'I have not drawn one cent from my teaching position in over two decades.' He said he had resigned from his post many years ago and it had been filled by a 'full-time' teacher.

CrankyHaus · 26-01-2018 02:59PM

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

As does Private Sector workers saying, and I quote another poster on here "the majority of the public sector wouldn’t last 5 Mins in a real job given how useless and incompetent most of them are."

Fair point.

How you describe public sector career breaks in your other post seems to be a good system to avoid positions being left vacant, or filled by a substitute or temp, for long periods. Is it the same in teaching?

26-01-2018 03:08PM

Typical anti-public sector non sense as usual. This is something people should be looking for to become common across industries instead of crying for it to be taken off the people who have it. As has been said many times, anybody could have chosen a public secotor job when they were starting out (or look at moving to one now) but you didnt so tough luck, there are plenty of private sector workers getting perks that a public sector worker could only dream of.

The career break is an oppertunity for someone to take some time out of a very long working career to travel, work abraod, raise family, try to start a business etc etc. We work hard enough for long enough so it can only be a good thing that people have a chance to persue something different without taking any risk of not having a permenant job again, losing their place on the salary scale etc.

26-01-2018 03:34PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well done on solving the financial crisis that ye bloody caused!!!!!!!!
Now say that to someone who lost a love one because of it or their house!!

sub_average_reasoner

boardie100 · 26-01-2018 04:05PM

married to a teacher (work in private sector myself) so my opinion is probably a bit one skewed but its a fantastic option to have to take time out to have a family and maybe travel a bit....
What i dont agree with is teachers taking 5 years out to work abroad and then come back to an open job...in actual fact they can take two 5 year breaks in their career if they want.... i know of one that went to germany for the guts of a decade and came back(only because she had to to keep the position)... thats totally unfair to substitute teachers..

lemmno · 26-01-2018 04:34PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Only asking because there are a heap of stories out there that confirm what I'm saying, just wondering if you've any that back yours?

That you can leave your job for 30 consecutive years and go back to it whenever you like? Not as far as I’m aware. If anyone can correct me please do but I’ve never heard that can happen. It was was always 5 years than you can take twice in your career but not back to back, and I’ve been teaching for quite a while now, started during the ‘good times’ as it were

cython · 26-01-2018 04:36PM

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

The Public Sector caused the financial crisis :eek:

Wow, there was me thinking it was Fianna Fail, the banks and global issues out of our control.

To be fair, if it can be claimed (as was done in the post that AR replied to) that the Public Sector fixed the crisis, then it's not a massive leap to suggest that they had a hand in causing it as well either by deliberate action, or simple inaction. I.e. if they had the power to fix it after the fact as claimed, they had the power to prevent it, or at least reduce the impact of it.

I'm not advocating either way, for what it's worth, any actions they can be credited with having taken to fix it could have been taken before the excrement met the revolving blades.

McMurphy · 26-01-2018 05:12PM

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't think so,

lemmno wrote: »

That you can leave your job for 30 consecutive years and go back to it whenever you like? Not as far as I’m aware. If anyone can correct me please do but I’ve never heard that can happen. It was was always 5 years than you can take twice in your career but not back to back, and I’ve been teaching for quite a while now, started during the ‘good times’ as it were

My bad

It was "almost" 30 years apparently.

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny only resigned his post 18 months ago, after almost 30 years on leave.

Before his resignation at the end of 2005, he was the longest serving TD still clinging on to his teacher's job

2007 article from the Indo

Belle E. Flops · 26-01-2018 05:20PM

The Career Break Scheme provides employees with an option to avail of a leave of absence from school, without pay, for a minimum period of 1 year.

Some of the main objectives of the scheme include (but are not limited to) education, personal development and childcare.
The maximum duration of any one absence on career break is 5 years.
The overall maximum absence in the course of a teaching career is 10 years.

From Dept Education & Skills
https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Breaks-Leave/Career-Break/

SHOVELLER · 26-01-2018 05:20PM

As an ex civil servant who left due to choking incompetence from management I did take a career break for a little more than 2 years and it was the best decision I made. Arguably it cost me promotion but I didnt care as that experience broadened my horizons no end and I saw there was a better life than working for unqualified, unsuitable management until I was 65.

Just to add career breaks are unpaid so it does save the taxpayer and as said one has to wait for the next available position to pop up. Your exact job is not just kept for you!

At the time I took the career break the limit was 5 years and the general rule was that anyone who was gone that long didnt come back. Now I believe it has been extended to 10 years.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-01-2018 05:23PM

SHOVELLER wrote: »

As an ex civil servant who left due to choking incompetence from management I did take a career break for a little more than 2 years and it was the best decision I made. Arguably it cost me promotion but I didnt care as that experience broadened my horizons no end and I saw there was a better life than working for unqualified, unsuitable management until I was 65.

Just to add career breaks are unpaid so it does save the taxpayer and as said one has to wait for the next available position to pop up. Your exact job is not just kept for you!

At the time I took the career break the limit was 5 years and the general rule was that anyone who was gone that long didnt come back. Now I believe it has been extended to 10 years.

I worked with some poor managers in the Civil Service. I also worked for some excellent ones. Why do people act as if the many thousands of people who populate the public sector are all some homogenous mass? I've witnessed some appalling incompetence from people in the private sector, but I don't assume they're all like that.

average_runner · 26-01-2018 05:52PM

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

The Public Sector caused the financial crisis :eek:

Wow, there was me thinking it was Fianna Fail, the banks and global issues out of our control.

Last i checked elected FF were public sector? Also the regulators and staff that were meant to be monitoring the banks, didn't do their job.

Dept of Finance is that not Public Sector also?
Central Bank staff, what are they?

Also, how can the PS fix something if they didnt create the mess? They must of corrected their own mistakes!!

McTigs · 26-01-2018 05:52PM

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

I worked with some poor managers in the Civil Service. I also worked for some excellent ones. Why do people act as if the many thousands of people who populate the public sector are all some homogenous mass? I've witnessed some appalling incompetence from people in the private sector, but I don't assume they're all like that.

The only time I have witnessed incompetent management in the private sector is in family business where promotions can happen by merit of blood.... outside of that, incompetence never gets as far as management and if it does it doesn't last long, they re either fired or the business fails.

average_runner · 26-01-2018 05:55PM

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

I worked with some poor managers in the Civil Service. I also worked for some excellent ones. Why do people act as if the many thousands of people who populate the public sector are all some homogenous mass? I've witnessed some appalling incompetence from people in the private sector, but I don't assume they're all like that.

People assume it, because all of the services in the sector are inefficient at the cost of the tax payer, which includes the PS paying for it also.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-01-2018 06:03PM

average_runner wrote: »

Last i checked elected FF were public sector? Also the regulators and staff that were meant to be monitoring the banks, didn't do their job.

Dept of Finance is that not Public Sector also?
Central Bank staff, what are they?

Also, how can the PS fix something if they didnt create the mess? They must of corrected their own mistakes!!

Oh right, so FF the Banks and international factors had nothing to do with our economic collapse. It was those pesky Civil Servants again.

Did I not read that Dept of Finance officials tried, many times, to warn Bertie Aherne's Government of the dangers of their fiscal policies but their advice was consistently ignored.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 26-01-2018 06:04PM

average_runner wrote: »

People assume it, because all of the services in the sector are inefficient at the cost of the tax payer, which includes the PS paying for it also.

Yes because the PS has little autonomy and has to go with the policies of the Government of the day, who tend to take a short term approach to everything as they are always looking to the next election.

That does not mean that everything the PS do is bad, or that the PS is populated by mainly inefficient people.

pumpkin4life · 26-01-2018 06:32PM

griffdaddy wrote: »

It's honestly baffling how people still believe that the majority of public sector workers are both incompetent and overpaid. It really reflects a unique kind of bitterness and ignorance. They've clearly never looked at a modern public sector pay scales. They clearly think the country runs itself. The financial crisis resolved itself. Our stellar diplomatic reputation just occurred accidently overnight. Our notoriously thorough and adept revenue commissioners didn't collect record receipts last year.

Right, so here's the problem with the public sector.

The nature of the public sector means a certain kind of person is attracted to work there, personality type wise. Characteristics include:

-More routine based and not being a novelty seeking/creative person than average. The idea of doing the same thing day in and day out out for decades appeals to them. You can quantify this in terms of personality as "openness to experience" as measured by the Big Five. Public sector workers score low in "openness to experience". They dislike new things.

-In relation to the above point, the safety and security aspect of the job appeals to people who are high in neuroticism, and in turn, typically high in agreeableness as well. As a result, public sector organizations tend to be places where "no one will make a decision" and less gets done as a result.

-Take a look at linkedin. Most public sector lads tend to have degrees in useless bumfluff subjects. The really smart lads are elsewhere. The dumb lads don't make the cut. So the public sector tends to attract people who are smart, but not very smart. Hence, more incompetence at higher ends, and more people believing in silly, odd theories;easier to manipulate essentially. Dunning Krueger effect as well is very strong. I've seen the "the country would collapse without us" arrogance in a lot of these lads.

So what does this mean? The average public sector worker is:

Clever but not very clever and has an over-inflated opinion of one's intelligence.
Very routine and not open to new things.
Very stress intolerant.
Very agreeable.
Very prone to manipulation by silly ideologies and more left wing typically.

When your education system is populated with people exclusively like this and your government departments are populated by people with this enitre personality type, bad things start to happen.

I worked in the public sector for a small bit after university. All I will say is that any half decent Python programmer could make a lot of the work and people's jobs in there in there completely redundant.

Roger Hassenforder · 26-01-2018 08:49PM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Right, so here's the problem with the public sector.

The nature of the public sector means a certain kind of person is attracted to work there, personality type wise. Characteristics include:

-More routine based and not being a novelty seeking/creative person than average. The idea of doing the same thing day in and day out out for decades appeals to them. You can quantify this in terms of personality as "openness to experience" as measured by the Big Five. Public sector workers score low in "openness to experience". They dislike new things.

-In relation to the above point, the safety and security aspect of the job appeals to people who are high in neuroticism, and in turn, typically high in agreeableness as well. As a result, public sector organizations tend to be places where "no one will make a decision" and less gets done as a result.

-Take a look at linkedin. Most public sector lads tend to have degrees in useless bumfluff subjects. The really smart lads are elsewhere. The dumb lads don't make the cut. So the public sector tends to attract people who are smart, but not very smart. Hence, more incompetence at higher ends, and more people believing in silly, odd theories;easier to manipulate essentially. Dunning Krueger effect as well is very strong. I've seen the "the country would collapse without us" arrogance in a lot of these lads.

So what does this mean? The average public sector worker is:

Clever but not very clever and has an over-inflated opinion of one's intelligence.
Very routine and not open to new things.
Very stress intolerant.
Very agreeable.
Very prone to manipulation by silly ideologies and more left wing typically.

When your education system is populated with people exclusively like this and your government departments are populated by people with this enitre personality type, bad things start to happen.

I worked in the public sector for a small bit after university. All I will say is that any half decent Python programmer could make a lot of the work and people's jobs in there in there completely redundant.

i've seen some bu11sh1t on boards, but that is absolutely brilliant.
i thought you were serious for a sec, than i realised you were only taking the pi55, then had another realization you're actually serious...

McMurphy · 26-01-2018 09:07PM

Belle E. Flops wrote: »

The Career Break Scheme provides employees with an option to avail of a leave of absence from school, without pay, for a minimum period of 1 year.

Some of the main objectives of the scheme include (but are not limited to) education, personal development and childcare.
The maximum duration of any one absence on career break is 5 years.
The overall maximum absence in the course of a teaching career is 10 years.

From Dept Education & Skills
https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Breaks-Leave/Career-Break/

How are the TDs, ministers and Senators bypassing the terms and conditions of this scheme?

Surely it's not being relaxed because of who they are/might know etc?

Or is there some small print that means these terms and conditions do not apply to public representatives?

Surely no one is trying to suggest that all these stories from different sosources are wrong?

26-01-2018 09:12PM

diomed wrote: »

I'm retired for working in industry. I never heard of anyone on a career break. That could only happen (in my opinion) where there is a lot of slack in an organisation. Career breaks are for the benefit of the individual, not the organisation and the service it provides.

not necessarily- career breaks can bring back new skills and new thinking to the company you're taking the break from.

Odhinn · 26-01-2018 09:13PM

jcorr wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0126/936116-teachers/

Hi all. I was just reading this article. Is it really allowed for a teacher to take a break (5 years apparently! ) and to go work abroad (like Dubai) as a teacher and come back to their old job? Seems a bit unfair. What do you think?

Deadly. Worse than dole fiddlers, single motherers and travellers put together....let the hate flow.......

evolving_doors · 26-01-2018 09:16PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Didn't go back to teaching and won't either.

Enda Got full TEACHERS pension though didn't he?

2262 teachers on a career break? For 5 years?

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