2262 teachers on a career break? For 5 years?

jcorr

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0126/936116-teachers/

Hi all. I was just reading this article. Is it really allowed for a teacher to take a break (5 years apparently! ) and to go work abroad (like Dubai) as a teacher and come back to their old job? Seems a bit unfair. What do you think?

Your Face

I think its tough on the temporary teachers who are stepping in to replace the teachers gone abroad.

salmocab

Some work abroad but I’d imagine plenty take time out to have kids, or become politicians. They get replaced by other younger teachers I’d imagine who gain experience and by the end of the break probably quite a few get full time positions for others who have left in the meantime. It’s a nice perk but I don’t really have a problem with it

Kermit.de.frog

jcorr wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0126/936116-teachers/

Hi all. I was just reading this article. Is it really allowed for a teacher to take a break (5 years apparently! ) and to go work abroad (like Dubai) as a teacher and come back to their old job? Seems a bit unfair. What do you think?

If anyone went to my boss and said "i'm taking a 5 year break to go abroad but i'll be back" I guess they would not be employed for very many seconds after that conversation.

I guess it's different when the taxpayer pays the wages?

IvyTheTerrible

Strange that you can take a career break from teaching to teach.
I'm a teacher in France and we can take career breaks after a certain length of service but we're not allowed to do anything to do with teaching on them.

Blazer

Is it any public sector job?
I know one lad working in IT there bitterly complaining he couldn’t move up a grade as the head dev was in the US for a few years and his job was still being held for him in case he decided to come back before the 5 years were up.
It’s a complete joke really.
You leave your job then tough titty. You decide to run for politics? Then make a decision and if you fail to get voted in then start looking for another job. See how the normal citizen has to get on in life and not be sucking from the taxpayers tits. It’s a major reason why none of these politicians has any real empathy towards the working people and this job holding needs to got rid of. Of course there’s not a hope of it as the public sector would never sign up for it.
Probably as apart from the health /fire sectors the majority of the public sector wouldn’t last 5 Mins in a real job given how useless and incompetent most of them are.

grind gremlin

Allowing teachers take long career breaks helps to increase the number of teachers who don’t have full pension contributions by the end of their teaching career. It will save the state a fortune.

uck51js9zml2yt

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If anyone went to my boss and said "i'm taking a 5 year break to go abroad but i'll be back" I guess they would not be employed for very many seconds after that conversation.

I guess it's different when the taxpayer pays the wages?

They don't get paid !

Fann Linn

Blazer wrote: »

Is it any public sector job?
I know one lad working in IT there bitterly complaining he couldn’t move up a grade as the head dev was in the US for a few years and his job was still being held for him in case he decided to come back before the 5 years were up.
It’s a complete joke really.
You leave your job then tough titty. You decide to run for politics? Then make a decision and if you fail to get voted in then start looking for another job. See how the normal citizen has to get on in life and not be sucking from the taxpayers tits. It’s a major reason why none of these politicians has any real empathy towards the working people and this job holding needs to got rid of. Of course there’s not a hope of it as the public sector would never sign up for it.

Probably as apart from the health /fire sectors the majority of the public sector wouldn’t last 5 Mins in a real job given how useless and incompetent most of them are.

Any links for that last assertion or did you just make it up.

McMurphy

Enda Kenny enjoyed a 30 year break from his teaching job.

wirelessdude01

Johnny Dogs wrote:

Enda Kenny enjoyed a 30 year break from his teaching job.

Didn't go back to teaching and won't either.

KellyXX

I had a public service job years ago.
I took a 5 year career break and loved it.
Eventually I went back but I only stayed 2 years and then went to the private sector.
It was great perk to have , and it really broadens your horizons and I'm so glad I did it.
Everyone should take at least a year out of work in their 20s because the longer you go on the less likely you will be to take it.

McMurphy

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Didn't go back to teaching and won't either.

Yep, but that position was still left open for him. That means for 30 years a teaching job had to be filled by a substitute teacher while Enda sat in opposition bencches.

Nice safety net if you can get it.

griffdaddy

It's honestly baffling how people still believe that the majority of public sector workers are both incompetent and overpaid. It really reflects a unique kind of bitterness and ignorance. They've clearly never looked at a modern public sector pay scales. They clearly think the country runs itself. The financial crisis resolved itself. Our stellar diplomatic reputation just occurred accidently overnight. Our notoriously thorough and adept revenue commissioners didn't collect record receipts last year.

McMurphy

grind gremlin wrote: »

Allowing teachers take long career breaks helps to increase the number of teachers who don’t have full pension contributions by the end of their teaching career. It will save the state a fortune.

I'll just leave this here so

The row erupted following a report that the Fine Gael leader was due a lump sum of €100,000 and an annual pension of €30,000 arising from his four years as a teacher in the 1970s before he became a TD.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kenny-i-wont-accept-teacher-pension-145995.html

Now so far as i understand it Enda never drew down this pension, but he would be the exception to the rule I would imagine. Still though - 100k and 30k pa for 4 years contributing

What the actual fcuk.

Better to let them take a break than force them out of the profession forever.

jester77

A lot of professions offer this.

I can take a career break in my job and it will be there when I come back, albeit 5 years is excessive. Working in IT, in 5 years there in 0 chance that my job would be anything like what it is now. So there is no way I would be coming back to the same job and unless I was uptraining and upskilling during the time I am away then I would be about as valuable to my company as someone coming fresh out of Uni.

What the majority here do is drop their hours to 60% or 70% to work on their private projects. If it works out they leave, if not they come back at 100%.

spurious

Deleted User wrote:

Better to let them take a break than force them out of the profession forever.

This would cover most of the people I know on career break. I don't know even one teacher who took a career break to teach abroad.

That may be because of my age profile, or the fact I was not a primary teacher. Most teachers I knew took their career breaks to care for children or elderly parents, or had been left some money and took the chance to travel for a year.

CrankyHaus

griffdaddy wrote: »

It's honestly baffling how people still believe that the majority of public sector workers are both incompetent and overpaid. It really reflects a unique kind of bitterness and ignorance. They've clearly never looked at a modern public sector pay scales. They clearly think the country runs itself. The financial crisis resolved itself. Our stellar diplomatic reputation just occurred accidently overnight. Our notoriously thorough and adept revenue commissioners didn't collect record receipts last year.

I know plenty of people working in the public sector who believe that incompetence is rife and many are overpaid.
I do a fair a bit of work with the public sector myself and come across plenty of examples of both, particularly in larger organisations.
Funnily enough I find schools to generally be very competently and efficiently run, much more so than in my schooldays.
Dismissing taxpayers criticisms of how their money is spent as "bitterness and ignorance" exhibits an incredible sense of superiority.
I don't know where I stand on career breaks. They seem to make sense in general but more than 2 years seems excessive, 5 years should be exceptional cases only and 30 years is completely taking the mick.

lemmno

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Yep, but that position was still left open for him. That means for 30 years a teaching job had to be filled by a substitute teacher while Enda sat in opposition bencches.

Nice safety net if you can get it.

Not true. If you’re gone for more than the 5 years you give up your job as it’s not kept for you past then. Plus it is up to the school or organisation to decide if you can take it and that’s a decision that’s made every year. You can’t apply for 5 years, you apply yearly and hope you get it, up to a max of 5.

I took a 2 year career break and the young teacher who replaced me was given a CID by default as she had done 2 consecutive years in School on my full hours. So now I have a permanent job and so does she. So my taking a career break worked out quite well for both me and a newly qualified teacher.

Blazer

griffdaddy wrote: »

It's honestly baffling how people still believe that the majority of public sector workers are both incompetent and overpaid. It really reflects a unique kind of bitterness and ignorance. They've clearly never looked at a modern public sector pay scales. They clearly think the country runs itself. The financial crisis resolved itself. Our stellar diplomatic reputation just occurred accidently overnight. Our notoriously thorough and adept revenue commissioners didn't collect record receipts last year.

I’ll give you that for the revenues. They are excellent in all my dealings with them and very professional.
Public sector bodies that are useless? Anything in a regulatory role, HSE administration, solas or whatever the scam merchants at fas are calling themselves these days, the senate where incompetent politicians who’ve been voted out sneak back in to screw more money out of the taxpayer, the central bank, the IDA who constantly ignore small businesses to suck off American companies and we end up in situations where those workers then lose their jobs when that company finds somewhere cheaper to work.
Motor tax offices, another indefensible joke.
I could honestly keep going on and on.
Public workers who deserve pay rises etc? Nurses, Trainee doctors who work illegal hours in a week, ambulance, firefighters, frontline police although they need a massive clearout of top level and scumbags.

McMurphy

lemmno wrote: »

Not true. If you’re gone for more than the 5 years you give up your job as it’s not kept for you past then. Plus it is up to the school or organisation to decide if you can take it and that’s a decision that’s made every year. You can’t apply for 5 years, you apply yearly and hope you get it, up to a max of 5.

I took a 2 year career break and the young teacher who replaced me was given a CID by default as she had done 2 consecutive years in School on my full hours. So now I have a permanent job and so does she. So my taking a career break worked out quite well for both me and a newly qualified teacher.

Are you sure about that?

Only asking because there are a heap of stories out there that confirm what I'm saying, just wondering if you've any that back yours?

Dr_Bill

jester77 wrote: »

A lot of professions offer this.

I can take a career break in my job and it will be there when I come back, albeit 5 years is excessive. Working in IT, in 5 years there in 0 chance that my job would be anything like what it is now. So there is no way I would be coming back to the same job and unless I was uptraining and upskilling during the time I am away then I would be about as valuable to my company as someone coming fresh out of Uni.

What the majority here do is drop their hours to 60% or 70% to work on their private projects. If it works out they leave, if not they come back at 100%.

I'd have to disagree not a lot of professions offer career breaks, I would say they are something that is limited to the Public sector. If I asked my employer for a career break the only thing I would be told is "Sure no problem... Foxtrot Oscar then! leave your resignation letter on the desk in the morning"

Kermit.de.frog

Saanvi Early Trefoil wrote: »

They don't get paid !

Never said they did.

KellyXX

jester77 wrote: »

A lot of professions offer this.

I can take a career break in my job and it will be there when I come back, albeit 5 years is excessive. Working in IT, in 5 years there in 0 chance that my job would be anything like what it is now. So there is no way I would be coming back to the same job and unless I was uptraining and upskilling during the time I am away then I would be about as valuable to my company as someone coming fresh out of Uni.

What the majority here do is drop their hours to 60% or 70% to work on their private projects. If it works out they leave, if not they come back at 100%.

I think everyone in any job should be allowed a year out. I would feel better arguing for that for everyone than having a moan and wanting taken away from some just because I don't have it now.

McMurphy

KellyXX wrote: »

I think everyone in any job should be allowed a year out. I would feel better arguing for that for everyone than having a moan and wanting taken away from some just because I don't have it now.

I'd agree with you.

As I said. Nice perk if you can get it.

spurious

AFAIK, the Australian public service has an optional self-funded long service leave (paid) which public servants can take every ten years.

smurgen

How does it effect the pension of teachers?

Hotblack Desiato

Career breaks in the public sector were brought in in the dark days of the 1980s as a desperate attempt to cut the wage bill. The state was literally near bankrupt then, far worse than anything that happened ten years ago. Public servants who left were not replaced, with the glaring exception of teachers as a classroom with only kids in it would be rather unpopular with voters but a junior teacher at the bottom of the pay scale was still a wage saving, and it "created opportunities for young people" as one of the mantras of the day went.

If the government made them redundant they'd have to make big severance payments and they couldn't afford this.

The hope was that a good proportion of them would emigrate and not come back. That was the thinking in those days. "We can't all live on a small island" - Tanaiste Brian Lenihan Sr.

Hotblack Desiato

smurgen wrote: »

How does it effect the pension of teachers?

It's non pensionable so can cause a significant reduction in pension / the need to work longer to secure a full pension.

Not sure about teachers but the public sector norm is half of final salary after 40 years of pensionable service, with NO social welfare pension on top.

cycle4fun

Plus they get 18 months salary tax free on retirement.

RobbieTheRobber

cycle4fun wrote: »

Plus they get 18 months salary tax free on retirement.

They don't have to work after they retire, don't forget to add that benefit to your calculation.

Tigger

enda wasnt o a break he was serving as a TD

he got paid the difference between his teaching wage and the cost of the sub for 30 years including increments

different to teachers going to the AE for 4 yars to get money together for a house

diomed

I'm retired for working in industry. I never heard of anyone on a career break. That could only happen (in my opinion) where there is a lot of slack in an organisation. Career breaks are for the benefit of the individual, not the organisation and the service it provides.

diomed

The thread says 2,262 teachers on a break.
The Dept of Education says 63,635 teachers.
Or 3.55% on a career break (1 in 28).

c68zapdsm5i1ru

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I know plenty of people working in the public sector who believe that incompetence is rife and many are overpaid.
I do a fair a bit of work with the public sector myself and come across plenty of examples of both, particularly in larger organisations.
Funnily enough I find schools to generally be very competently and efficiently run, much more so than in my schooldays.
Dismissing taxpayers criticisms of how their money is spent as "bitterness and ignorance" exhibits an incredible sense of superiority.
I don't know where I stand on career breaks. They seem to make sense in general but more than 2 years seems excessive, 5 years should be exceptional cases only and 30 years is completely taking the mick.

As does Private Sector workers saying, and I quote another poster on here "the majority of the public sector wouldn’t last 5 Mins in a real job given how useless and incompetent most of them are."

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Only asking because there are a heap of stories out there that confirm what I'm saying, just wondering if you've any that back yours?

I used to work in the Civil Service and that's exactly how it worked.

Also, people on career breaks didn't just waltz back into the job they'd left, the minute they wanted to. They had to write to their former HR Department requesting to return and, when a vacancy at the right level arose, they would be assigned to that one. Nowadays I don't think you're even guaranteed that you will be returned to the same Government Department.
The vast majority of those who take career breaks, do so to stay at home with small children. A smaller number do it to travel or to try and set up their own business (which, if successful will provide employment for others). You can't take a career break and obtain paid employment in Ireland.

average_runner

griffdaddy wrote: »

It's honestly baffling how people still believe that the majority of public sector workers are both incompetent and overpaid. It really reflects a unique kind of bitterness and ignorance. They've clearly never looked at a modern public sector pay scales. They clearly think the country runs itself. The financial crisis resolved itself. Our stellar diplomatic reputation just occurred accidently overnight. Our notoriously thorough and adept revenue commissioners didn't collect record receipts last year.

Well done on solving the financial crisis that ye bloody caused!!!!!!!!
Now say that to someone who lost a love one because of it or their house!!

c68zapdsm5i1ru

average_runner wrote: »

Well done on solving the financial crisis that ye bloody caused!!!!!!!!
Now say that to someone who lost a love one because of it or their house!!

The Public Sector caused the financial crisis :eek:

Wow, there was me thinking it was Fianna Fail, the banks and global issues out of our control.

Phoebas

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Yep, but that position was still left open for him. That means for 30 years a teaching job had to be filled by a substitute teacher while Enda sat in opposition bencches.

Nice safety net if you can get it.

I don't think so,

During his speech today, Mr Kenny turned directly to the topic saying: 'I have not drawn one cent from my teaching position in over two decades.' He said he had resigned from his post many years ago and it had been filled by a 'full-time' teacher.

CrankyHaus

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

As does Private Sector workers saying, and I quote another poster on here "the majority of the public sector wouldn’t last 5 Mins in a real job given how useless and incompetent most of them are."

Fair point.

How you describe public sector career breaks in your other post seems to be a good system to avoid positions being left vacant, or filled by a substitute or temp, for long periods. Is it the same in teaching?

Typical anti-public sector non sense as usual. This is something people should be looking for to become common across industries instead of crying for it to be taken off the people who have it. As has been said many times, anybody could have chosen a public secotor job when they were starting out (or look at moving to one now) but you didnt so tough luck, there are plenty of private sector workers getting perks that a public sector worker could only dream of.

The career break is an oppertunity for someone to take some time out of a very long working career to travel, work abraod, raise family, try to start a business etc etc. We work hard enough for long enough so it can only be a good thing that people have a chance to persue something different without taking any risk of not having a permenant job again, losing their place on the salary scale etc.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Well done on solving the financial crisis that ye bloody caused!!!!!!!!
Now say that to someone who lost a love one because of it or their house!!

sub_average_reasoner

boardie100

married to a teacher (work in private sector myself) so my opinion is probably a bit one skewed but its a fantastic option to have to take time out to have a family and maybe travel a bit....
What i dont agree with is teachers taking 5 years out to work abroad and then come back to an open job...in actual fact they can take two 5 year breaks in their career if they want.... i know of one that went to germany for the guts of a decade and came back(only because she had to to keep the position)... thats totally unfair to substitute teachers..

lemmno

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Only asking because there are a heap of stories out there that confirm what I'm saying, just wondering if you've any that back yours?

That you can leave your job for 30 consecutive years and go back to it whenever you like? Not as far as I’m aware. If anyone can correct me please do but I’ve never heard that can happen. It was was always 5 years than you can take twice in your career but not back to back, and I’ve been teaching for quite a while now, started during the ‘good times’ as it were

cython

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

The Public Sector caused the financial crisis :eek:

Wow, there was me thinking it was Fianna Fail, the banks and global issues out of our control.

To be fair, if it can be claimed (as was done in the post that AR replied to) that the Public Sector fixed the crisis, then it's not a massive leap to suggest that they had a hand in causing it as well either by deliberate action, or simple inaction. I.e. if they had the power to fix it after the fact as claimed, they had the power to prevent it, or at least reduce the impact of it.

I'm not advocating either way, for what it's worth, any actions they can be credited with having taken to fix it could have been taken before the excrement met the revolving blades.

McMurphy

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't think so,

lemmno wrote: »

That you can leave your job for 30 consecutive years and go back to it whenever you like? Not as far as I’m aware. If anyone can correct me please do but I’ve never heard that can happen. It was was always 5 years than you can take twice in your career but not back to back, and I’ve been teaching for quite a while now, started during the ‘good times’ as it were

My bad

It was "almost" 30 years apparently.

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny only resigned his post 18 months ago, after almost 30 years on leave.

Before his resignation at the end of 2005, he was the longest serving TD still clinging on to his teacher's job

2007 article from the Indo

Belle E. Flops

The Career Break Scheme provides employees with an option to avail of a leave of absence from school, without pay, for a minimum period of 1 year.

Some of the main objectives of the scheme include (but are not limited to) education, personal development and childcare.
The maximum duration of any one absence on career break is 5 years.
The overall maximum absence in the course of a teaching career is 10 years.

From Dept Education & Skills
https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Breaks-Leave/Career-Break/

SHOVELLER

As an ex civil servant who left due to choking incompetence from management I did take a career break for a little more than 2 years and it was the best decision I made. Arguably it cost me promotion but I didnt care as that experience broadened my horizons no end and I saw there was a better life than working for unqualified, unsuitable management until I was 65.

Just to add career breaks are unpaid so it does save the taxpayer and as said one has to wait for the next available position to pop up. Your exact job is not just kept for you!

At the time I took the career break the limit was 5 years and the general rule was that anyone who was gone that long didnt come back. Now I believe it has been extended to 10 years.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

SHOVELLER wrote: »

As an ex civil servant who left due to choking incompetence from management I did take a career break for a little more than 2 years and it was the best decision I made. Arguably it cost me promotion but I didnt care as that experience broadened my horizons no end and I saw there was a better life than working for unqualified, unsuitable management until I was 65.

Just to add career breaks are unpaid so it does save the taxpayer and as said one has to wait for the next available position to pop up. Your exact job is not just kept for you!

At the time I took the career break the limit was 5 years and the general rule was that anyone who was gone that long didnt come back. Now I believe it has been extended to 10 years.

I worked with some poor managers in the Civil Service. I also worked for some excellent ones. Why do people act as if the many thousands of people who populate the public sector are all some homogenous mass? I've witnessed some appalling incompetence from people in the private sector, but I don't assume they're all like that.

average_runner

Musa Hallowed Threat wrote: »

The Public Sector caused the financial crisis :eek:

Wow, there was me thinking it was Fianna Fail, the banks and global issues out of our control.

Last i checked elected FF were public sector? Also the regulators and staff that were meant to be monitoring the banks, didn't do their job.

Dept of Finance is that not Public Sector also?
Central Bank staff, what are they?

Also, how can the PS fix something if they didnt create the mess? They must of corrected their own mistakes!!