JCT training day

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 21-01-2018 12:02am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

If all my students fail JC Science, can I put it down to trial and error?

Nobody fails anymore.

Yet to meet expectations!

joebloggs32 · 21-01-2018 4:42pm

My time at jc level is evenly split between two subjects, yet I have only been sent to cluster days on one of them.
I have a vague idea what is coming in that one, but haven't a clue about the other. Both start next september.

All I can remember of my first cluster day was learning to draw a cartoon character....at least the second one was subject specific. I reckon there will be an increased workload for a few years but it should settle down as you get to 're use plans.

Can't wait for the update of the LC!

dory · 21-01-2018 11:27pm

We've one of these tomorrow. Should I do anything to prepare? Feel like I should be reading something or practicing colouring between the lines.

evolving_doors · 21-01-2018 11:46pm

dory wrote: »

We've one of these tomorrow. Should I do anything to prepare? Feel like I should be reading something or practicing colouring between the lines.

You serious!!! Did you not get the brief? I think it goes something like this...

1. Review and summarise all the learning outcomes of the new syllabus.
2. Draft up 3 Year Lesson Plans and accompanying scheme of work.
3. Consider at least 5 different student profiles and identify teaching methodologies suitable for each (bout 4 pages per student).
4. Present your findings to the group.

2xj3hplqgsbkym · 21-01-2018 11:51pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

You serious!!! Did you not get the brief? I think it goes something like this...

1. Review and summarise all the learning outcomes of the new syllabus.
2. Draft up 3 Year Lesson Plans and accompanying scheme of work.
3. Consider at least 5 different student profiles and identify teaching methodologies suitable for each (bout 4 pages per student).
4. Present your findings to the group.

You forgot;
5. Learn the never ending list of acronyms JCT, JCPA, SLAR, CRAP .....

dory · 21-01-2018 11:53pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

You serious!!! Did you not get the brief? I think it goes something like this...

1. Review and summarise all the learning outcomes of the new syllabus.
2. Draft up 3 Year Lesson Plans and accompanying scheme of work.
3. Consider at least 5 different student profiles and identify teaching methodologies suitable for each (bout 4 pages per student).
4. Present your findings to the group.

You serious? I meant to we've the general JCT yoke not the cluster****. That's just playing around isn't it?

mtoutlemonde · 21-01-2018 11:57pm

dory wrote: »

We've one of these tomorrow. Should I do anything to prepare? Feel like I should be reading something or practicing colouring between the lines.

Sharpen your pencils and if you had a nice new pencil case to go with - would be perfect

Enjoy your day!! You can report back (release your anger) if you want

mtoutlemonde · 21-01-2018 11:59pm

Briggs Happy Wisecrack wrote: »

You forgot;
5. Learn the never ending list of acronyms JCT, JCPA, SLAR, CRAP .....

... and don't forget it's specification not curriculum - the amount of time we were corrected on that one.

SligoBrewer · 22-01-2018 12:10am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But what's to try? The science spec is in its second year, I've been to a number of science days now and they haven't done anything remotely useful with the syllabus content or explain anything about how it's going to be examined either in terms of the written exam, or the coursework.

I don't blame the authors of the textbooks, they have tried to produce a book the best interprets the new syllabus. Some are better than others, and we have chosen a book that we feel has the best content. However as we have gone on, we have noticed more stuff that is missing from the book and having a quick look at the vague list of learning outcomes, missing from the syllabus. It's impossible to figure out to what depth we should be teaching a topic, and whether students will be put at a disadvantage if some topics are only given scant treatment. Also given that science has been reduced from a recommended 240 hours to 200 hours, I'd love to know where we are supposed to fit in all this material, because it's impossible to gauge how much extra stuff you should teach in a topic that isn't explicitly listed in the syllabus and may or may not be in a text book depending on which one you have chosen.

From a personal point of view I feel that some strands of science could suffer as teachers tend to have a personal preference for chemistry, physics or biology depending on which is their senior subject. I am the only physics teacher in my school and I rarely have JC science. Will it have a knock on effect in LC physics if JC science teachers (who are mainly biology teachers) give all the extra depth of treatment to the biology sections in the course,and only give physics the bare bones treatment?

I echo every single thing you're saying, I'm also a Physics teacher who is gravely concerned.

evolving_doors · 22-01-2018 1:17am

Briggs Happy Wisecrack wrote: »

You forgot;
5. Learn the never ending list of acronyms JCT, JCPA, SLAR, CRAP .....

Remember in the Travers report they were promoting the ASS!

solerina · 22-01-2018 6:03pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

... and don't forget it's specification not curriculum - the amount of time we were corrected on that one.

I am allergic to this new ‘specification’ and the need to ‘unpack’ it. It’s not called a syllabus because it hasn’t any real substance !!! Am dreading the future fifth and sixth years who have done this JC.

rainbowtrout · 22-01-2018 7:00pm

I'm a science teacher. I see everything in graphs. A decidedly strong negative correlation in my view.

dory · 22-01-2018 8:33pm

It wasn't too awful. Very wishy washy. Lots of subject specific questions thart of course they couldn't answer - that's for cluster meetings. No one had anything in particular they wanted to know about general Junior Cycle stuff. So we just learned about methodologies. Can't say I learned anything new.

Lindy17 · 22-01-2018 10:43pm

happywithlife wrote: »

I agree 're phones etc
They expect every student to have access to a device and Wi-Fi
Our students have neither - school has totally banned phones not to be seen ever and anyway there is no student network

I found the same- the need for a phone/device was referred to consistently throughout the CPD day. Teachers were asked to bring a device with them to the room. I think that they could be tweaked to better suit the context of each individual school i.e if you have no devices perhaps don't spent time on showing us how to use mentimeter to allow students to submit ideas to put on the board in a word cloud.

Similarly, there are no phones allowed in my school school.. we have internet on computers but no staff or student Wi-Fi. Our facilitator suggesting reviewing our acceptable use policy? It was not welcomed by management.

Mardy Bum · 22-01-2018 10:58pm

Lindy17 wrote: »

Similarly, there are no phones allowed in my school school.. we have internet on computers but no staff or student Wi-Fi. Our facilitator suggesting reviewing our acceptable use policy? It was not welcomed by management.

It shouldn't be welcomed by anyone who has done even a tiny bit of research. This push by JCT advisors is nothing short of incompetent.

For some reasons the NAPD and PDST believe tech companies are benevolent organisations who are only interested in the common good.

These organisations are counting the seconds until every child is made get a device and they will become the wholesaler. It is so transparent.

acequion · 25-01-2018 6:12pm

Jesus how did we get to this!! How did we let this farce in! :eek::eek:

We have our day next week and I'm totally dreading it. I've neither the interest nor the inclination to put on an act and go all happy clappy and hee hee hee at infantile tripe like "ghost walks" and writing nonsense on post its. But rest assured lots on my staff will as I bet lots do everywhere. Teachers ALWAYS play ball,that's the whole problem. Plus, the waste of a teaching day just before the mocks, is beyond infuriating.

But,that said, I honestly don't see the point in worrying ourselves about how to teach this new rubbish. I can see waffly stuff like learning outcomes completely falling by the way as they are irrelevant and merit no more than lip service to keep ourselves out of trouble. After that it's basically just cover a course and do our best. I have both second and third year English and that's basically what I'm doing. I use the new methodologies if and where they're useful learning tools but at the end of the day,I'm far more concerned about trying to keep up standards for the LC.

But that's English and it is manageable as there are levels. But my other subject, French,which only started this year, promises to be one huge, very unfunny joke!

mtoutlemonde · 25-01-2018 6:33pm

acequion wrote: »

Jesus how did we get to this!! How did we let this farce in! :eek::eek:

We have our day next week and I'm totally dreading it. I've neither the interest nor the inclination to put on an act and go all happy clappy and hee hee hee at infantile tripe like "ghost walks" and writing nonsense on post its. But rest assured lots on my staff will as I bet lots do everywhere. Teachers ALWAYS play ball,that's the whole problem. Plus, the waste of a teaching day just before the mocks, is beyond infuriating.

But,that said, I honestly don't see the point in worrying ourselves about how to teach this new rubbish. I can see waffly stuff like learning outcomes completely falling by the way as they are irrelevant and merit no more than lip service to keep ourselves out of trouble. After that it's basically just cover a course and do our best. I have both second and third year English and that's basically what I'm doing. I use the new methodologies if and where they're useful learning tools but at the end of the day,I'm far more concerned about trying to keep up standards for the LC.

But that's English and it is manageable as there are levels. But my other subject, French,which only started this year, promises to be one huge, very unfunny joke!

With the weak TUI members accepting all that comes their way and the militant group of ASTI teachers who overturned the fight we had for two years for the sake of an increment.

Yes French is going to be great - less time and more to do. Stay away from your textbook and make things for groupwork. I have a major problem not having levels. It looks like we will be using TY (when we see them) to bring the written expression up to standard. It annoys me as well as the second years have to do a CBA which is worthless - I think an exam is better anytime. I asked about the second CBA and were we going to become English teachers ... it's the SEC that decide that ... yes I correct for the SEC, does that mean we will be English teachers examining an English reflection? No answer to that. I have been teaching the way I always have ... one where students learn and get the results. I would also worry about follow through to leaving cert results. I really like the curriculum as it is as it gives a solid foundation for Leaving cert - even if students are taking ordinary.

acequion · 25-01-2018 8:25pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

With the weak TUI members accepting all that comes their way and the militant group of ASTI teachers who overturned the fight we had for two years for the sake of an increment.

Yes French is going to be great - less time and more to do. Stay away from your textbook and make things for groupwork. I have a major problem not having levels. It looks like we will be using TY (when we see them) to bring the written expression up to standard. It annoys me as well as the second years have to do a CBA which is worthless - I think an exam is better anytime. I asked about the second CBA and were we going to become English teachers ... it's the SEC that decide that ... yes I correct for the SEC, does that mean we will be English teachers examining an English reflection? No answer to that. I have been teaching the way I always have ... one where students learn and get the results. I would also worry about follow through to leaving cert results. I really like the curriculum as it is as it gives a solid foundation for Leaving cert - even if students are taking ordinary.

Do you think I don't know!! I went lock,stock and barrel in the fight against this substandard new JC so I shouldn't be surprised by the general outcry now that the chickens are coming home to roost.But nevertheless,it's awful to read it here in the print. And to realise that with a united approach and determination not to let it in we might have saved our education system.

Because it undoubtedly will go down the tubes, especially in the optional subjects. Standards will plummet,that's a certainty.

But as for working harder, forget that! I just don't intend to. Maybe it's because I've only a few years left before I retire but I'm damned if I'm going to pick up the slack and rescue standards that the Govt of the land have thrown out the window. I will do my best for my students as I always do. But no way am I putting extra work into something that I know is totally useless.

Dark days ahead folks.:(

Icsics · 25-01-2018 8:46pm

Day 1 for us was an exercise in post its, ghost walk, anticipation exercise, diamond 8 ranking, think pair share, controlled groupwork, placement & ranking ladder, dotmocracy & videos.
So a bit like being back in college. I did learn / realise a few things though. Teachers with practical elements in JC are not happy that these will now only count for 10%. The exam paper will look different every year & won't be predictable.
It's all about the process folks, the pressure will be of the 'high stakes exam' but on the CBAs & ATs ie the teacher!

Nellieelephant · 25-01-2018 9:01pm

The strategies took up so much of the day - I am confident in my teaching abilities - I can look these up in my own time. We watched a video of a SLAR meeting which showed teachers disagreeing over level descriptors- it was awful- added nothing to the day. No hard facts like the cutting of maths contact time by a third for the introduction of well-being . We were also told there is no appeal mechanism for CBAs. I cannot believe this is correct. If a parent kicks up enough of a fuss they will be entitled to see the paper trail in my opinion. No mention of summative assessment - all formative... I could go on but I won’t!!

happywithlife · 25-01-2018 10:11pm

Nellieelephant wrote: »

The strategies took up so much of the day - I am confident in my teaching abilities - I can look these up in my own time. We watched a video of a SLAR meeting which showed teachers disagreeing over level descriptors- it was awful- added nothing to the day. No hard facts like the cutting of maths contact time by a third for the introduction of well-being . We were also told there is no appeal mechanism for CBAs. I cannot believe this is correct. If a parent kicks up enough of a fuss they will be entitled to see the paper trail in my opinion. No mention of summative assessment - all formative... I could go on but I won’t!!

I asked about what happens if 1/2 at the SLAR meetings are dominant like that but got no satisfactory answer. Have also asked not at the cluster meeting and the JCT coordinator in my school how is the chair picked for those meetings but again no fixed answer. I am a one teacher dept so will be having a cluster SLARwith teachers from other schools

Lindy17 · 25-01-2018 10:22pm

happywithlife wrote: »

I asked about what happens if 1/2 at the SLAR meetings are dominant like that but got no satisfactory answer. Have also asked not at the cluster meeting and the JCT coordinator in my school how is the chair picked for those meetings but again no fixed answer. I am a one teacher dept so will be having a cluster SLARwith teachers from other schools

We were informed that the class teacher is the one who has final say on the grade descriptor as they will have the best insight into their students. Also the SLAR facilitator role should be rotated. At a cluster day I attended, one piece of work for the English CBA2 was awarded everything from yet to meet expectations to above expectations by different teachers in different schools. I guess we are all influenced by our own school and student context.

happywithlife · 25-01-2018 10:37pm

Lindy17 wrote: »

We were informed that the class teacher is the one who has final say on the grade descriptor as they will have the best insight into their students. Also the SLAR facilitator role should be rotated. At a cluster day I attended, one piece of work for the English CBA2 was awarded everything from yet to meet expectations to above expectations by different teachers in different schools. I guess we are all influenced by our own school and student context.

Sorry yes I understood that about teacher having final say it was more the dominant personalities aspect - such personalities are likely to vie for chair in the first instance so how does a meeting progress then if there are "robust debates" over standards, school context, etc

Lindy17 · 25-01-2018 11:15pm

happywithlife wrote: »

Sorry yes I understood that about teacher having final say it was more the dominant personalities aspect - such personalities are likely to vie for chair in the first instance so how does a meeting progress then if there are "robust debates" over standards, school context, etc

Well in the case of the cluster day we were told the 'right answer' by the facilitators as we were spending too long on the activity- of course this lead to even more uproar and debate!

I think if there's a dominant personality in the group its very hard to have your opinion acknowledged. I attended a SLAR where I felt a teacher was judging some students on the basis of their poor behaviour in class rather than the samples of work that were produced. I did state that I felt student y had done a better job than student x who was being awarded a higher grade descriptor and referred back to the features of quality. We did debate the work of the two students in question again, but I was told class teacher has the final say and the meeting moved swiftly on. I think the jct feel establishing norms for the meetings will ensure it all goes smoothly but as you've stated a dominant personality will always be heard!

mtoutlemonde · 25-01-2018 11:22pm

acequion wrote: »

Do you think I don't know!! I went lock,stock and barrel in the fight against this substandard new JC so I shouldn't be surprised by the general outcry now that the chickens are coming home to roost.But nevertheless,it's awful to read it here in the print. And to realise that with a united approach and determination not to let it in we might have saved our education system.

Because it undoubtedly will go down the tubes, especially in the optional subjects. Standards will plummet,that's a certainty.

But as for working harder, forget that! I just don't intend to. Maybe it's because I've only a few years left before I retire but I'm damned if I'm going to pick up the slack and rescue standards that the Govt of the land have thrown out the window. I will do my best for my students as I always do. But no way am I putting extra work into something that I know is totally useless.

Dark days ahead folks.:(

From what I'm seeing, there is more of an emphasis on groupwork which may be great but it takes a lot of planning in terms of resources and resources that could be abused by students so you have to do it again. I wonder who'll be funding all of these materials e,g, boardmarkers, whiteboards, A3 paper for placemats, the lovely post-its, laminating etc? I provided my own boardmarkers for a class I did group work with but I'm not going to do this for all of my classes. It may be petty but I've heard from primary teachers who are expected to fund these resources themselves.

Yes education in Ireland is on the downward slope - dreading next PISA results. All of these new initiatives are having a serious impact on extra curricular as well - I for one won't be doing anymore than what I'm paid for and a lot of people I feel will take the same opinion. I think I've said it before that there is a big push for wellbeing (which I'm in favour of) but the people in the offices don't think about the wellbeing of teachers.

Nellieelephant · 26-01-2018 1:37am

One more major sticking point for me. There was a lovely, flashy slide saying that international research says that formative assessment is best practice basically. (reason for the whole change).The presenter mentioned NO studies- the slide was not referenced and no list of references at the end of presentation. I waited with baited breath all day. I just find that unbelievable- presenting to fill fellow professionals and not one study mentioned. The research could have been carried out in a one teacher school in Outer Mongolia for all I know.

acequion · 26-01-2018 1:51am

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

From what I'm seeing, there is more of an emphasis on groupwork which may be great but it takes a lot of planning in terms of resources and resources that could be abused by students so you have to do it again. I wonder who'll be funding all of these materials e,g, boardmarkers, whiteboards, A3 paper for placemats, the lovely post-its, laminating etc? I provided my own boardmarkers for a class I did group work with but I'm not going to do this for all of my classes. It may be petty but I've heard from primary teachers who are expected to fund these resources themselves.

Yes education in Ireland is on the downward slope - dreading next PISA results. All of these new initiatives are having a serious impact on extra curricular as well - I for one won't be doing anymore than what I'm paid for and a lot of people I feel will take the same opinion. I think I've said it before that there is a big push for wellbeing (which I'm in favour of) but the people in the offices don't think about the wellbeing of teachers.

I'm not dreading them at all. In fact I'm looking forward to them and I hope they're bad. Because the sooner this shambles is exposed for the farce it is the sooner we'll revert back to a proper system.

Because we will eventually revert back. That's another certainty.

mtoutlemonde · 26-01-2018 11:26am

acequion wrote: »

I'm not dreading them at all. In fact I'm looking forward to them and I hope they're bad. Because the sooner this shambles is exposed for the farce it is the sooner we'll revert back to a proper system.

Because we will eventually revert back. That's another certainty.

Yes I agree, give it one Cycle to Leaving Cert and the universities will be crying out as students won't be meeting the points.

Postgrad10 · 26-01-2018 11:44am

Or they still meet the points as the points are created by demand. So if results fall, points will do the same ?

Icsics · 26-01-2018 1:28pm

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Or they still meet the points as the points are created by demand. So if results fall, points will do the same ?

With the new grading system ie 10% bands our students were getting more points. Colleges will respond by changing the course entry requirements, Irish for primary teaching is going to 60% next yr.
The grading system at JC is now completely disconnected from the LC grades & the JC bands are far too wide

JCT training day

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