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Phoenix Park tunnel

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    #332
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,591 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    trellheim wrote: »
    Some good points there. I do think unlocking PPT line trains connection to Sandyford is huge.

    You seem to be oblivious to the physical obstacles that make such a station virtually impossible, or just don’t want to hear that a station at Cabra Road is likely to generate more use - as the poster above this post states, why wouldn’t they just go via Heuston - it doesn’t cost any more and would be as fast if not faster.


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    #333
    Winters
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    A Dublin Zoo station underneath Phoenix Park would be a major trip generator if served by frequent and fast trains from Connolly, Tara and Pearse.


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    #334
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,837 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Winters wrote: »
    A Dublin Zoo station underneath Phoenix Park would be a major trip generator if served by frequent and fast trains from Connolly, Tara and Pearse.

    again, you can't build a station in a tunnel so you'd have to rebuild the entire line and dig out the station from above. For what, the zoo?


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    #335
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Winters wrote: »
    A Dublin Zoo station underneath Phoenix Park would be a major trip generator if served by frequent and fast trains from Connolly, Tara and Pearse.

    How many trips per day would it generate?


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    #336
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,060 ✭✭✭buffalo


    loyatemu wrote: »
    again, you can't build a station in a tunnel so you'd have to rebuild the entire line and dig out the station from above. For what, the zoo?

    The Phoenix Park is crying out for a decent PT link, considering the lack of decent car parking facilities. Though I don't know if it's worth digging out a station.


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    #337
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,591 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    buffalo wrote: »
    The Phoenix Park is crying out for a decent PT link, considering the lack of decent car parking facilities. Though I don't know if it's worth digging out a station.

    Heuston is right beside it, as is the Red Line LUAS, the 25, 26, 37, 46a, 66, 67 and 69 bus routes.


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    #338
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Surely Stoneybatter and the vicinity of NCR would warrant better public transport than it does? It's served by the most frequent bus route in Dublin as it is.


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    #339
    Winters
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    loyatemu wrote: »
    again, you can't build a station in a tunnel so you'd have to rebuild the entire line and dig out the station from above. For what, the zoo?

    Yes, that's what I was advocating. Yes you can build a station in a tunnel albeit its gonna be a hell of a lot more expensive. I can dream..:D
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    How many trips per day would it generate?

    1,105,005 visitors to the Zoo in 2016.


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    #340
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,560 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    buffalo wrote: »
    The Phoenix Park is crying out for a decent PT link, considering the lack of decent car parking facilities. Though I don't know if it's worth digging out a station.

    How about a short luas branch line, up ParkGate St to the Zoo, and perhaps a little further, it would only be about 2km


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    #341
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭trellheim


    You seem to be oblivious to the physical obstacles that make such a station virtually impossible, or just don’t want to hear that a station at Cabra Road is likely to generate more use - as the poster above this post states

    I live currently less than 500m from the Cabra sidings/Cabra Road and I cannot see any reason whatever for a station there. Yes there is room but to what end ? It is faster to cycle most places and there is already a very frequent set of Bus services on the New Cabra Road to take people where they want to go, its a wasted opportunity in my view.


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    #342
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,551 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    trellheim wrote: »
    I live currently less than 500m from the Cabra sidings/Cabra Road and I cannot see any reason whatever for a station there. Yes there is room but to what end ? It is faster to cycle most places and there is already a very frequent set of Bus services on the New Cabra Road to take people where they want to go, its a wasted opportunity in my view.

    The massive new housing development that's going to be built right beside that potential station is one. There are new apartments recently completed on Fassaugh Avenue too, and many more to come in this area in the next few years. It would also act as a half-decent interchange with the Green Line at the Cabra stop.


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    #343
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    trellheim wrote: »
    I live currently less than 500m from the Cabra sidings/Cabra Road and I cannot see any reason whatever for a station there. Yes there is room but to what end ? It is faster to cycle most places and there is already a very frequent set of Bus services on the New Cabra Road to take people where they want to go, its a wasted opportunity in my view.

    I imagine it would be useful for anyone living along the Kildare line who might want to commute to Blanch for work. It would allow them to do the commute by PT without going into the congestion of the city centre


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    #344
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I imagine it would be useful for anyone living along the Kildare line who might want to commute to Blanch for work. It would allow them to do the commute by PT without going into the congestion of the city centre

    Or Sandyford.


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    #345
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,591 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Again though there is no point in going on about a station where there is no physical space for one.

    People can take train to Heuston, Red Line to Abbey and change in the same time it would hypothetically take via PPT at no extra cost if going to Sandyford.


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    #346
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,060 ✭✭✭buffalo


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Heuston is right beside it, as is the Red Line LUAS, the 25, 26, 37, 46a, 66, 67 and 69 bus routes.

    The park is bigger than the zoo. The visitor centre is about an hour's walk with kids from Heuston.


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    #347
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,591 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    buffalo wrote: »
    The park is bigger than the zoo. The visitor centre is about an hour's walk with kids from Heuston.

    That’s why I included the 37 bus which serves Ashtown Gate - it’s a short walk from Heuston station to catch it at Blackhall Place.

    A station on the PPT line would be of zero use for the Visitor Centre either.


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    #348
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Winters wrote: »
    1,105,005 visitors to the Zoo in 2016.

    Doesn’t answer my question.


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    #349
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Has anyone been using the new PPT service? Presumably its busy? Any Red Line users seeing any perceivable change to Red Line uptake outside Heuston?


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    #350
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    I took the 17:38 from Connolly to Parkwest this evening purely out of curiosity ( I had to take a 79A back to Ballyfermot to reach my destination! )

    Only a 4 car ICR but had to stand in the vestibule.

    It's not a bad service though and we got a clear run from Drumcondra to Parkwest. I was surprised to see a couple of dozen passengers getting off at Parkwest. I guess there are quite a few apartments there.

    I'd love to see a station at Kylemore Road. As it's one of the main orbital routes around the city I'm hoping a station there would be built to connect with whatever high frequency bus service replaces/augments the 18. Not to mention the Lucan Luas! It's also an area ripe for development as it straddles under utilised light industrial land and an established residential area.


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    #351
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,302 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    How about a short luas branch line, up ParkGate St to the Zoo, and perhaps a little further, it would only be about 2km
    :eek: and where will trams go when they rejoin the red line? will Tallaght get a reduced frequency as a result.


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    #352
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,302 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    trellheim wrote: »
    I live currently less than 500m from the Cabra sidings/Cabra Road and I cannot see any reason whatever for a station there. Yes there is room but to what end ? It is faster to cycle most places and there is already a very frequent set of Bus services on the New Cabra Road to take people where they want to go, its a wasted opportunity in my view.

    Yes get on the bus and sit there for a half an hour with all the cars.
    It probably isn't feasible right now. In the future when every railway in Dublin is electrified and DART underground is in place we can operate a Circle DART service running from Platform 10/Heuston West via Cabra Drumcondra and Stephen's Green back to Heuston. an Orbital route like that would be great for facilitating suburb-suburb journeys bypassing the City Centre, assuming we have integrated ticketing by then. A Rialto to Drumcondra journey for example would be a breeze compared to the current An Lár set up.


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    #353
    kc56
    Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭kc56


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    I took the 17:38 from Connolly to Parkwest this evening purely out of curiosity ( I had to take a 79A back to Ballyfermot to reach my destination! )

    Only a 4 car ICR but had to stand in the vestibule.

    It's not a bad service though and we got a clear run from Drumcondra to Parkwest. I was surprised to see a couple of dozen passengers getting off at Parkwest. I guess there are quite a few apartments there.
    That was a GCD-Newbridge services. These are the busiest due to the numbers travelling to Sallins since it was added to the Short Hop Zone. Most are 4-car ICRs but the occasional a 3-car is in use. Even the 4-cars get full on the Hazelhatch-GCD services. There has been a noticable increase in the usage of stations like Adamstown and Clondalkin since the PPT started.
    Also, the loadings on the Portlaoise-Heuston trains especially after Sallins are noticably increased.


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    #354
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    kc56 wrote: »
    There has been a noticable increase in the usage of stations like Adamstown and Clondalkin since the PPT started.

    The shock to the transport providers (was CIE, NTA now determine that sort of stuff) that when you provide a useful service people use it

    The huge increase in use of the 67 bus at all times of day since it went to a 30 minute clockface service - which is terrible by international standards but a huge improvement on the random, hourly or worse offpeak - seems to have taken them by surprise to0


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    #355
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,591 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    L1011 wrote: »
    The shock to the transport providers (was CIE, NTA now determine that sort of stuff) that when you provide a useful service people use it

    The huge increase in use of the 67 bus at all times of day since it went to a 30 minute clockface service - which is terrible by international standards but a huge improvement on the random, hourly or worse offpeak - seems to have taken them by surprise to0

    Off-topic, but when the 60 buses transfer from Dublin Bus to Go Ahead later this year, there will be a further 60 brand new buses arriving which should finally deliver meaningful increases in frequencies across the rest of the Dublin Bus network (and 40 additional new buses to Go Ahead). Most of the recent deliveries have unfortunately been used up in maintaining the existing timetable due to bus routes requiring additional running time.

    That’s going to be a major expansion.


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    #356
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Off-topic, but when the 60 buses transfer from Dublin Bus to Go Ahead later this year, there will be a further 60 brand new buses arriving which should finally deliver meaningful increases in frequencies across the rest of the Dublin Bus network (and 40 additional new buses to Go Ahead). Most of the recent deliveries have unfortunately been used up in maintaining the existing timetable due to bus routes requiring additional running time.

    That’s going to be a major expansion.

    Off-topic, why are DB getting the new buses and not Go Ahead (getting 100 buses)?


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    #357
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,591 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Off-topic, why are DB getting the new buses and not Go Ahead (getting 100 buses)?

    So that they both have a mix of ages - doesn’t give one a direct advantage of a brand new fleet over the other.


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    #358
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Has anyone been using the new PPT service? Presumably its busy? Any Red Line users seeing any perceivable change to Red Line uptake outside Heuston?


    Not much, if anything the Luas Red Line is getting busier, maybe the cross city is having an effect. The Tunnel train is getting busier, but is often only 3 carriages. It also getting an uptake of Drumcondra passengers now that they have more regular options.
    To make a real dent in the Real Line you need provide a viable(time wise) option to the commuters using the intercity trains. These intercity trains are heavily reliant of these commuters, so maybe they need to take a hit and stop at Hazelhatch and link with a Tunnel Train.


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    #359
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    FredFunk wrote: »
    These intercity trains are heavily reliant of these commuters, so maybe they need to take a hit and stop at Hazelhatch and link with a Tunnel Train.

    Better yet, going ahead with a surface Inchicore station would be a great little project while we're waiting for DU.

    It could serve as the main Intercity-PPT interchange, and also bring rail services to the local area years ahead of DU.


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    #360
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Better yet, going ahead with a surface Inchicore station would be a great little project while we're waiting for DU.

    It could serve as the main Intercity-PPT interchange, and also bring rail services to the local area years ahead of DU.

    Sounds good as long there is a good balance of services and speed for all.


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    #361
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,591 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Better yet, going ahead with a surface Inchicore station would be a great little project while we're waiting for DU.

    It could serve as the main Intercity-PPT interchange, and also bring rail services to the local area years ahead of DU.

    And slow down Intercity services even more with a stop barely outside Heuston?

    Absolutely not.

    The ideal solution is to recast the timetable and have the hourly PPT service operate to Portlaoise and connect with Waterford services at Kildare, Western services at Portarlington and Cork services at Portlaoise.

    All feasible. The only issue is that the current Heuston/Portlaoise services are used at times to get ICRs to the depot for servicing during the day having arrived up in Heuston on the morning Intercity services.

    By all means have an Inchicore station but not as an Intercity interchange.


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