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Little Mix sued for failing to provide an interpreter...

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    It's funny that you can't even see the unjust discrimination in your own words.

    "Why can't they just be happy with what they've got? Why should they be entitled to access the same things that us normals can?"
    Out of interest would subtitles displayed somewhere be as good? Because even with an interpretor the only thing about the audio they're accessing is the lyrics.


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    #33
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    seamus wrote: »
    It's funny that you can't even see the unjust discrimination in your own words.

    "Why can't they just be happy with what they've got? Why should they be entitled to access the same things that us normals can?"

    So by that logic, the Hokey-Cokey should be banned at parties, seeing as people with no right leg or left arm won't able to put it in/out/shake it all about?


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    #34
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    seamus wrote: »
    It's funny that you can't even see the unjust discrimination in your own words.

    "Why can't they just be happy with what they've got? Why should they be entitled to access the same things that us normals can?"

    Where access can be provided it should be mandatory to do so. However not using dancefloors because wheelchair access cannot be provided to them seems perverse in circumstances where multiple wheelchair accessible dancefloors exist in the venue.

    On topic the woman seems either opportunistic or a little touched (with her solicitor pushing her along). I can't believe any parents would really feel like they're missing out by not knowing the lyrics of whatever teeny-bopper racket their 8 year olds love.


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    #35
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Hokey cokey should be banned certainly, not for that reason though. Just cos it's a load of shíte!


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    #36
    whoopsadoodles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭whoopsadoodles


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Hokey cokey should be banned certainly, not for that reason though. Just cos it's a load of shíte!

    But that's what it's all about.


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    #37
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    seamus wrote: »
    It's funny that you can't even see the unjust discrimination in your own words.

    "Why can't they just be happy with what they've got? Why should they be entitled to access the same things that us normals can?"

    I dunno Seamus....I very much agree with the fact that reasonable action should be taken to ensure people with disabilities have as full a life experience as possible.

    But when it comes to the attitude of 'if we can't make it safe or accessible for people with disabilities then nobody is allowed (as seems to be the case in the moat example above) then I have to say it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

    I guess my main problem with these things tends to be the ones that end up in the news (like this one) cause one or both sides were being a knob and just couldn't come to a sensible solution together, nicely. EDIT : I'd imagine there are many many examples we never hear about because people sit down together over a cuppa and work out what's feasible and reasonable under the circumstances, or at least that's what I like to think

    I think we should just outlaw being a knob


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    #38
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Out of interest would subtitles displayed somewhere be as good? Because even with an interpretor the only thing about the audio they're accessing is the lyrics.
    Yeah, maybe? Probably need a deaf person to comment on it. There might be something more energetic/interactive in a sign language interpretation, or it may be easier to watch someone sign than read lyrics from a screen.
    CelticRambler wrote: »
    So by that logic, the Hokey-Cokey should be banned at parties, seeing as people with no right leg or left arm won't able to put it in/out/shake it all about?
    :rolleyes:
    I guess my main problem with these things tends to be the ones that end up in the news (like this one) cause one or both sides were being a knob and just couldn't come to a sensible solution together, nicely.
    Aha, but there shouldn't "sides" in the first place. Disabled people shouldn't have to fight for access or point out that they don't have it. Anything designed for public use should be designed from the ground up with disabilities taken into account.

    I can totally understand frustration in the dancefloor example, but ultimately whoever designed it made a mistake. If it failed on health and safety grounds, you wouldn't say, "Anyone who doesn't want to die can go to one of the other dancefloors", you'd acknowledge that you messed up your design and correct it.

    That's basically the point behind the legislation - so that disabled people don't have to spend their lives having to complain and fight their way to equal access. But rather so that equal access comes by default.


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    #39
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    It's always fascinated me how deaf people only watch tv in the wee hours of the morning. That's when the sign language interpreter comes out, must only be available for night shifts.


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    #40
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Also, this is the best thing I've ever seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pagg6qpdkhI


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    #41
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Where access can be provided it should be mandatory to do so. However not using dancefloors because wheelchair access cannot be provided to them seems perverse in circumstances where multiple wheelchair accessible dancefloors exist in the venue.

    On topic the woman seems either opportunistic or a little touched (with her solicitor pushing her along). I can't believe any parents would really feel like their missing out by not knowing the lyrics of whatever teeny-bopper racket their 8 year olds love.

    I think I know her solicitor

    better-call-saul-saul-goodman-esq-800x600.jpg


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    #42
    valoren
    Registered Users Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭valoren


    She seems like the kind of person that when this goes to court for a 'hearing', she will complain about that as well.


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    #43
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    Bob Harris wrote: »
    The kids can hear it's the mothers who were bringing them to the concert who are deaf. Most parents who have to accompany kids to concerts usually wish they were deaf.

    Apologies..I had misread the article...and I agree, not hearing little mix is a blessing


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    Finding it hard to get outraged here, despite the "PC gone mad" slant some would like to put on it.
    ...
    Imagine if a person in a wheelchair asked the promoter if they could provide a ramp to access the venue and somewhere that they could be placed to see the stage, and the promoter's response was basically, "No". This is the same thing.

    Yeah, I did say in the OP I can see her point. Maybe the issue is the whole "newness" of it all, we are used to wheelchair facilities, we are used to accommodation being made for other conditions, why not deaf. For me it sets the bar very high, on all acts and promoters of even the most minor performance, the local drama group etc. But if it's the law, so be it.


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    #45
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Do they want all live performances to provide an interpreter? Would be a problem for smaller bands/promotors/venues. What about instrumental acts?

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #46
    Chrongen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chrongen


    Would it be reasonable for a blind person to expect a cinema to provide those contraptions that plug sensors into your brain so you can "see" some of the images that others are seeing during the movie or would the cinema need to provide a person who could provide a running visual description of the movie scenes. Lawnmower Man and Total Recall could be a challenge or any sci-fi for that matter.....Inception :eek:


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    #47
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    seamus wrote: »
    It's funny that you can't even see the unjust discrimination in your own words.

    "Why can't they just be happy with what they've got? Why should they be entitled to access the same things that us normals can?"

    Imagine visiting a castle and this castle has a tower.
    This tower has a very narrow spiral staircase that able bodied people find challenging.
    Should this tower be closed because the only way to get a wheelchair user up there is either by 4 strong blokes to carry him up (tower would have to be closed for an hour for that one), or by external winch?
    Should the organiser be forced to build an external elevator at a cost of millions at every tower of every castle in the land?

    Imagine a ski slope. It has a blue run, a red run and a black run. I am able to do the blue and the red run, but no way could I do the black run. Should the black run be closed, or should the organiser be forced to drive me down the black run on a Skidoo or should he be forced to build a special lift or gear-driven train so I can also enjoy the black run as well?

    Maybe Mount Everest should be made wheelchair accessible.
    The reality is that not everyone is able to access everything and while reasonable attempts should be made to accomodate evryone, the harsh reality is that not everything can be made accessible for everyone.
    Life is tough.


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    #48
    Bob Harris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Bob Harris


    Will it be the same at cinemas? If you take a tour bus will there be a person signing the recorded audio
    at the front of the bus? Will there be someone signing mass? The practicalities of implementing what this woman wants are quite simply not feasible in the majority of situations.
    Some people have disabilities and the reality is that often they will affect their ability to enjoy and participate in certain activities.


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    #49
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Imagine visiting a castle and this castle has a tower.
    This tower has a very narrow spiral staircase that able bodied people find challenging..

    I was just thinking about Hook light house earlier and trying to remember if there was a lift there or not
    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    The reality is that not everyone is able to access everything and while reasonable attempts should be made to accomodate evryone, the harsh reality is that not everything can be made accessible for everyone.
    Life is tough.

    The way is see it is that yes, reasonable accommodation needs to be made and in many cases probably isn't, or not without some hassle.

    But equally, like you said, it's sometimes just not possible and then there are people who demand 'equality' where there just isn't any to be had. We're not all equal abled, equal bodied, equal minded etc. etc. and while that's not fair it's also not really something anybody can solve.

    Tis not an easy situation


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    #50
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    seamus wrote: »
    "As close as possible". That sounds reasonable to me. It doesn't oblige the organisation to give them VIP treatment, just to make accommodations that can be reasonably met.

    I'm a Chinese deaf person and my deaf friend is from Papua New Guinea. We speak different languages. Can we have sign language interpreters too?

    There's a speed rap music festival on too. Good luck getting someone who can sign to that.


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    #51
    Chrongen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chrongen


    The promotoer should have simply provided her with a pair of cheap binoculars.

    "If you can sign then surely you can lip-read too. Enjoy the show" :pac:


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    #52
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    seamus wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe? Probably need a deaf person to comment on it. There might be something more energetic/interactive in a sign language interpretation, or it may be easier to watch someone sign than read lyrics from a screen.

    :rolleyes:

    Aha, but there shouldn't "sides" in the first place. Disabled people shouldn't have to fight for access or point out that they don't have it. Anything designed for public use should be designed from the ground up with disabilities taken into account.

    I can totally understand frustration in the dancefloor example, but ultimately whoever designed it made a mistake. If it failed on health and safety grounds, you wouldn't say, "Anyone who doesn't want to die can go to one of the other dancefloors", you'd acknowledge that you messed up your design and correct it.

    That's basically the point behind the legislation - so that disabled people don't have to spend their lives having to complain and fight their way to equal access. But rather so that equal access comes by default.

    If only they had a time machine to go back to the 1600s or whenever the castle was built to berate the person who made that "mistake".


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    #53
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Bob Harris wrote: »
    Will it be the same at cinemas? If you take a tour bus will there be a person signing the recorded audio
    at the front of the bus? Will there be someone signing mass? The practicalities of implementing what this woman wants are quite simply not feasible in the majority of situations.
    Some people have disabilities and the reality is that often they will affect their ability to enjoy and participate in certain activities.

    She'll have to have an interpreter follow her around the supermarket to let her know of any announcements made over the tannoy.


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    #54
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    There's a speed rap music festival on too. Good luck getting someone who can sign to that.

    I reckon she could
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOJjiiXZhXc


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    #55
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    seamus wrote: »
    It's funny that you can't even see the unjust discrimination in your own words.

    "Why can't they just be happy with what they've got? Why should they be entitled to access the same things that us normals can?"

    Surely the point is why should everyone have to miss out because a few people can't access it?


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    #56
    Bob Harris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Bob Harris


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    She'll have to have an interpreter follow her around the supermarket to let her know of any announcements made over the tannoy.

    'arsehole in aisle 4'


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    #57
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Chrongen wrote: »
    Would it be reasonable for a blind person to expect a cinema to provide those contraptions that plug sensors into your brain you you can "see" some of the image that others are seeing during the movie or would the cinema need to provide a person who could provide a running visual description of the movie scenes. Lawnmower Man and Total Recall could be a challenge or any sci-fi for that matter.....Inception :eek:

    I would be tempted to make stuff up...Yeah so he is an archaeologist fighting Nazis...with a stripper...on a polar bear...in the future...with pineapples!!


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    #58
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    frag420 wrote: »
    I would be tempted to make stuff up...Yeah so he is an archaeologist fighting Nazis...with a stripper...on a polar bear...in the future...with pineapples!!

    I actually think I watched that on Netflix the other day :p


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    #59
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm a Chinese deaf person and my deaf friend is from Papua New Guinea. We speak different languages. Can we have sign language interpreters too?

    There's a speed rap music festival on too. Good luck getting someone who can sign to that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iDAkEpCmBs


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    #60
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    So by that logic, the Hokey-Cokey should be banned at parties, seeing as people with no right leg or left arm won't able to put it in/out/shake it all about?

    No, but people, provided they supply advanced warning, should be provided with prosthetic arms and legs as appropriate.

    Could they not just have handed the girls a lyrics sheet?

    How do you sign to a song? What about things like...ummm...rhythm, timing?


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    #61
    Chrongen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chrongen


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    She'll have to have an interpreter follow her around the supermarket to let her know of any announcements made over the tannoy.

    Curry's now selling Hi-Fi equipment and for the hearing impaired we provide a "live-in" sign-language interpreter. Some of our sign-language interpreters are disabled so you must make sure your house is wheelchair friendly.


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