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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

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Comments

  • #392
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Yes, of course he will be forgiven.

    Cool, that finally answers the OPs question ie "YES" christians can indeed vote in favour of unlimited abortion safe in the knowledge that providing they go to confession or whatever soon after and genuinely repent, including saying the three hail mary's they'll likely get for punishment (I always found the concept of being told to say prayers as a form of punishment a bit odd) then all will be hunky dory all round and a Win Win for everyone.

    Thanks for clarifying, we got there eventually. :-)


  • #393
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    J C wrote: »
    I don't believe that a Christian can morally vote for unlimited abortion.

    The Sixth Commandment is very simple and very clear ... 'Thou shalt not kill'.

    It means that you cannot kill yourself or another Human Being, except in self defence (or the defence of another Human Being) where no other option is available.
    This is the basis for all laws protecting the person and criminalising the killing of other people in Common Law Jurisprudence.

    Induced abortion is ethically and morally wrong ... except where the life of the mother is directly threatened and there is no other option available to save her.

    This is the current law in Ireland.

    Voting to expand Irish Law to allow the unlimited killing of unborn children is not something that any Christian (or other monotheist, indeed) can do in conscience and in clear contravention of the Sixth Commandment of God.

    Plenty of Christians for the death penalty.


  • #394
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    LeeroyJ. wrote:
    Well good thing i am an atheist and can vote for autonomy and a fundamental human right. And i sincerely hope there are enough other people that can distance themselves from religious BS and make a decision without basing it on fairytales so we can stop exporting our females to other jurisdictions so they can get basic treatment.


    You already have made your choice.


  • #395
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Cool, that finally answers the OPs question ie "YES" christians can indeed vote in favour of unlimited abortion safe in the knowledge that providing they go to confession or whatever soon after and genuinely repent, including saying the three hail mary's they'll likely get for punishment (I always found the concept of being told to say prayers as a form of punishment a bit odd) then all will be hunky dory all round and a Win Win for everyone.


    Why would you vote yes and then go to confession soon after? I don't think that would be a genuine confession.


  • #396
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Unfortunately, Muslims follow a false God, and will receive their just reward.

    That's unfortunate for you, as you follow the exact same god. Are you claiming you follow a false god?

    Seek forgiveness now or you will not be allowed enter his kingdom.


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  • #397
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Bubbaclaus wrote:
    That's unfortunate for you, as you follow the exact same god. Are you claiming you follow a false god?

    Bubbaclaus wrote:
    Seek forgiveness now or you will not be allowed enter his kingdom.

    I told you that God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There is no other God. Do you hear me?


  • #398
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Why don't you address the question I asked? Can a christian who had educated himself/herself on the issue of abortion and votes in favour of unlimited abortion (for whatever reasons you may not be able to comprehend) but later genuinely respents be forgiven by god or not?
    They might do so ... but they will have blood on their hands ... and the damage they permit to be done by their actions can never be undone.

    Here is the story of a man who once directed the largest abortion facility in the world ... who stopped and became a pro-life advocate.



    Here is the man himself on his deathbed ... a man Saved by God despite being directly responsible for 75.000 abortions



    There is nobody who can't be Saved ... but the damage they have done cannot be undone ... and they have to live with that.


  • #399
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    YFlyer wrote:
    Plenty of Christians for the death penalty.

    Christians cannot vote for the death penalty.


  • #400
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    keano_afc wrote: »
    "Every human embryologist in the world knows that the life of the new individual HUMAN BEING begins at fertilisation. It is not belief, it is scientific fact". Ward Kishcer, University of Arizona.

    Exactly, I think we're finally making progress here. Fertilisation is off course where human life starts, who could possibly argue that point?

    Can you quote where Ward Kishcer states than a newly fertilized embryo IS a human being rather than the start of something which may eventually become a human being?


  • #401
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Why would you vote yes and then go to confession soon after? I don't think that would be a genuine confession.

    Don't people go to confession shortly after they have sinned all the time?

    Regardless, let's assume they leave it to their death bed to genuinely repent, are they forgiven and welcomed into the glorious kingdom or not?


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  • #402
    mach1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There is no other God.


    I think you need read the Bible again.

    God the Father is the God of Abraham and Issac.(matthew 22 :32)
    God wrote:
    32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”


    He promised the Jews he would send a Massiah, we as Christians believe that Jesus is the promised Massiah. In Islam, Mohomed is a Prophet, not a God, just like if you read my link Jesus is regarded as a Prophet in Islam.


  • #403
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Regardless, let's assume they leave it to their death bed to genuinely repent, are they forgiven and welcomed into the glorious kingdom or not?


    Yes of course.


  • #404
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    mach1982 wrote:
    God the Father is the God of Abraham and Issac.(matthew 22 :32)

    Correct. But in Jesus He revealed His trinitarian nature


  • #405
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Jesus is not a prophet, He is the Son of God.


  • #406
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Plenty of Christians for the death penalty.
    How do you reckon that I'm for the death penalty?

    For the record, I'm not.

    ... but the irony is that just when the state-sanctioned death penalty was removed in western countries (for henious crimes) ... another type of state sanctioned death penalty was introduced in the form of legalised abortion of innocent unborn children.


  • #407
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    No Christian can be for the death penalty, Thou shalt not kill. No exceptions.


  • #408
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    J C wrote: »
    ... here is a 12 week old unborn child which the Dail committee on abortion is recommending to be allowed to be aborted on demand immediately the 8th is removed.

    pregnancy-week-12-eyelids_square.jpg,qwidth=384.pagespeed.ce.UxHYPj_04A.jpg

    I'm sure that everyone will agree that this is some 'clump of cells' allright !!!

    ... a beautiful baby girl, as it so happens

    ... does anybody really think that it is OK to kill this child?

    ... does anybody really think this isn't a Human Being?

    ... so who is going 'to cast the first stone' (and vote) to kill this child?

    I will, without a moments hesitation because you are ignoring the health of the mother, the circumstances of the pregnancy and the health of the foetus and projecting an idealistic version of reality which doesn't reflect real life.

    Have you ever held a new born with triosomy 13 and watch it die in your arms? My sister did and she had no doubt an abortion would have been the humane thing to do for all concerned but she wasn't allowed that option and had to carry the foetus to full term so both the newly born baby and it's parents could experience the full pain of the process for as long as possible.

    You need to get real.


  • #409
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Yes of course.

    So we're sorted on the OPs question then. It is ok for christians to vote for unlimited abortion providing they genuinely repent before they die.

    Cool.


  • #410
    mach1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    J C wrote: »
    Owney ... Roman Cathoics don't have a monopoly on opposing abortion ... Moslems also oppose it ... so please stop fighting with your allies ... there are enough pro-abortionists to oppose, without wasting your energies arguing with people who are on your side, on the abortion issue.

    While my views on the topic might be similar to his, am not an ally. In the end, it's between the individual and God . The Church is only meant to guide us , remember their rules are written by men, not God. You don't answer to the Pope, or any other religious leader the only person you answer to is God, and God will always forgive.


  • #411
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    So we're sorted on the OPs question then. It is ok for christians to vote for unlimited abortion providing they genuinely repent before they die.


    I don't understand this. How can a follower of Christ vote for abortion in the first place?


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  • #412
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    mach1982 wrote:
    While my views on the topic might be similar to his, am not an ally. In the end, it's between the individual and God . The Church is only meant to guide us , remember their rules are written by men, not God. You don't answer to the Pope, or any other religious leader the only person you answer to is God, and God will always forgive.


    The rules of the Catholic Church are written by God.


  • #413
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    I will, without a moments hesitation because you are ignoring the health of the mother, the circumstances of the pregnancy and the health of the foetus and projecting an idealistic version of reality which doesn't reflect real life.

    Have you ever held a new born with triosomy 13 and watch it die in your arms? My sister did and she had no doubt an abortion would have been the humane thing to do for all concerned but she wasn't allowed that option and had to carry the foetus to full term so both the newly born baby and it's parents could experience the full pain of the process for as long as possible.

    You need to get real.
    I'm very real .. and the immediate deaths of beautiful innocent 12 week unborn children exactly like this will be the result of a vote to remove the 8th.

    pregnancy-week-12-eyelids_square.jpg,qwidth=384.pagespeed.ce.UxHYPj_04A.jpg

    This isn't a child with any disease (not that this should be a reason to kill her anyway).
    The welfare of the mother is a 'red herring' ... modern medicine can take care of the health of all pregnant women ... and if there is a risk to her life ... abortion is already available in Ireland to prevent that.

    ... and there is a programme running now on RTE 1 TV on Downs Syndrome testing in the UK ... where 90% of unborn children diagnosed with Downs Syndrome are aborted ... in Iceland the figure is 100%.
    Legally in the UK, a Downs Syndrome child can be killed right up to birth.

    Horrendous and outrageous !!!


  • #414
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    mach1982 wrote:
    While my views on the topic might be similar to his, am not an ally. In the end, it's between the individual and God . The Church is only meant to guide us , remember their rules are written by men, not God. You don't answer to the Pope, or any other religious leader the only person you answer to is God, and God will always forgive.

    God won't always forgive. Don't presume on His mercy. You must be truly repentent from your heart.


  • #415
    mach1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Jesus is not a prophet, He is the Son of God.

    Yes that what I believe Jesus is the Son of God, but Muslins believe he is a Prophet, just like Mohmand. My point is that you said they believe a false God, but they don't.


  • #416
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    mach1982 wrote:
    Yes that what I believe Jesus is the Son of God, but Muslins believe he is a Prophet, just like Mohmand. My point is that you said they believe a false God, but they don't.


    A prophet is not God.


  • #417
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    I don't understand this. How can a follower of Christ vote for abortion in the first place?

    I don't know as I'm not one but given your obvious knowledge of how it all works I was curious to know if god would forgive someone who genuinely repented for voting in favour of abortion and you confirmed god would so that's clarified the OPs question for me.

    Also, I guess a follower of christ can vote for abortion and later be forgiven in the same way a priest for example can force a child to give him a blow job and later be forgiven by god.

    It's a strange old world eh?


  • #418
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    The rules of the Catholic Church are written by God.

    Many believe this is little more than your fkx2nspcw9omhg.


  • #419
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Also, I guess a follower of christ can vote for abortion and later be forgiven in the same way a priest for example can force a child to give him a blow job and later be forgiven by god.


    Why do you write such filth? You have shown your true colours.


  • #420
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    antiskeptic wrote:
    Many believe this is little more than your owenybaloney.


    I am speaking the Truth. Please listen.


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  • #421
    mach1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    A prophet is not God.


    They don't worship Mohmand they worship Allah (their name for the God of Abraham, Isaac Jacob) the same God that you and I worship. We just happen to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and they don't.


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