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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

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Comments

  • #362
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Yes, silly me trying to project human qualities on to a human being. That kind of thinking will never stick.

    Look, I completely understand your stance and lack of linguistic honesty. Nobody wants to say they support killing human beings. It's much easier to sell when you are not being truthful.


  • #363
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    What do you mean "prohibited from repenting"? There is no such thing. If you sincerely repent, you are forgiven.

    So earlier you said christians could only be forgiven for voting for abortion if they were in ignorance when they voted.

    Just to clarify, what if a christian spends lot's of time reading all the info available, listens to what his priest says on the subject and really educates himself/herself on the matter and then decides to go ahead and vote in favour of abortion, is that person prohibited from genuinely repenting later on or can any christian who voted in favour of abortion whether they are ignorant of the subject matter or not at the dinner they voted later repent and be forgiven by god?

    If forgiveness reserved exclusively for the ignorant?


  • #364
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    When will you ever learn? From the moment of conception to birth abortion is not allowed.

    Not currently allowed except where they life of the pregnant woman is at risk. Correct?


  • #365
    mcfitness20
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 ✭mcfitness20


    no wonder muslims are winning
    turn the other cheek


  • #366
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Yes, silly me trying to project human qualities on to a human being. That kind of thinking will never stick.

    Look, I completely understand your stance and lack of linguistic honesty. Nobody wants to say they support killing human beings. It's much easier to sell when you are not being truthful.

    So in your world a fertilized egg a second after the moment of conception is a human being?

    Fair enough, no point arguing with you on that!!


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  • #367
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    So in your world a fertilized egg a second after the moment of conception is a human being?

    Fair enough, no point arguing with you on that!!

    To quote Dr Matthews-Roth, Professor of Medicine at Harvard: "It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception".

    Give her a shout there and tell her she's wrong. Let us know how you go.


  • #368
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Katie Full Leak wrote: »
    So let's get it over with and kill them up to 39 weeks 6 days.
    There are moves afoot in the BMA to make abortion legal for any reason right up to birth in British Law ... which is the bellweather standard for many in the Irish abortion lobby.

    ... so if we remove the 8th, the very scenario you describe is a very real possibility in a few years time, maybe even sooner.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/27/abortion-should-decriminalised-say-doctors-back-call-law-change/
    Quote:-
    "The UK’s largest doctors union has called for the complete decriminalisation of abortion and for women to have access to terminations on demand.

    The British Medical Association (BMA) formally agreed on Tuesday to lobby the Government to abandon the current legal framework, which requires an expectant mother to convince two doctors an abortion is necessary to protect her long-term health."

    "If the BMA gets its way, medics would not face criminal sanctions for providing, or women for procuring, an abortion in any circumstances, at any stage in a pregnancy."

    Sadly, the slippery slope to death on demand right up to birth is well underway.


  • #369
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    keano_afc wrote: »
    To quote Dr Matthews-Roth, Professor of Medicine at Harvard: "It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception".

    Give her a shout there and tell her she's wrong. Let us know how you go.

    You see that's where the deliberate misuse of valid qualified information just backfires on you.

    Of course human life starts at conception, just as the life of a 200ft oak tree starts with the germination of an acorn but some fertilized cells post conception are no more a human being than freshly germinated acorn is an oak tree.

    Please do show me where
    Dr Matthews-Roth, Professor of Medicine at Harvard states that a newly conceived foetus is actually a human being rather than a foetus which has the potential to become a human being.


  • #370
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Just to clarify, what if a christian spends lot's of time reading all the info available, listens to what his priest says on the subject and really educates himself/herself on the matter and then decides to go ahead and vote in favour of abortion, is that person prohibited from genuinely repenting later on or can any christian who voted in favour of abortion whether they are ignorant of the subject matter or not at the dinner they voted later repent and be forgiven by god?

    Look, those who vote in favour of abortion due to ignorance commit a lesser sin than those who vote for abortion, fully aware of what abortion entails. Nobody is prohibited from the mercy of God. Even the greatest sinner in the world. The key word is repentence.


  • #371
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    You see that's where the deliberate misuse of valid qualified information just backfires on you.

    Of course human life starts at conception, just as the life of a 200ft oak tree starts with the germination of an acorn but some fertilized cells post conception are no more a human being than freshly germinated acorn is an oak tree.

    Please do show me where
    Dr Matthews-Roth, Professor of Medicine at Harvard states that a newly conceived foetus is actually a human being rather than a foetus which has the potential to become a human being.

    Human beings reproduce human beings. That's pretty basic biology. We don't become more human the older we get. You can offer your opinion on when a human life becomes a human being, as far as I'm concerned it's a straw man argument with the sole intention of validating the deliberate killing of the unborn.

    As I've previously stated, I believe that electively ending a human life is wrong. I have no issue with medical termination when the life of the mother is at risk. I don't know anyone that does. But killing a human being purely because it's an inconvenience is morally repugnant.


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  • #372
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Not currently allowed except where they life of the pregnant woman is at risk. Correct?


    Never allowed, even when the life of the mother is in danger. Do you not realise what becomes of the soul after death? It is better to die and receive your eternal reward, than to die and receive eternal death.


  • #373
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Of course human life starts at conception, just as the life of a 200ft oak tree starts with the germination of an acorn but some fertilized cells post conception are no more a human being than freshly germinated acorn is an oak tree.
    ... here is a 12 week old unborn child which the Dail committee on abortion is recommending to be allowed to be aborted on demand immediately the 8th is removed.

    pregnancy-week-12-eyelids_square.jpg,qwidth=384.pagespeed.ce.UxHYPj_04A.jpg

    I'm sure that everyone will agree that this is some 'clump of cells' allright !!!

    ... a beautiful baby girl, as it so happens

    ... does anybody really think that it is OK to kill this child?

    ... does anybody really think this isn't a Human Being?

    ... so who is going 'to cast the first stone' (and vote) to kill this child?


  • #374
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    mcfitness20 wrote:
    no wonder muslims are winning turn the other cheek


    Unfortunately, Muslims follow a false God, and will receive their just reward.


  • #375
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Fair enough, no point arguing with you on that!!

    Obviously no point in talking to you.


  • #376
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Please do show me where Dr Matthews-Roth, Professor of Medicine at Harvard states that a newly conceived foetus is actually a human being rather than a foetus which has the potential to become a human being.


    No conception, no baby.


  • #377
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Do not fear him who can kill the body and then can do no more. Rather fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.


  • #378
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Look, those who vote in favour of abortion due to ignorance commit a lesser sin than those who vote for abortion, fully aware of what abortion entails. Nobody is prohibited from the mercy of God. Even the greatest sinner in the world. The key word is repentence.

    Cool, so if the key word is repentance as you state it why can't both christians who are ignorant of the abortion issue (as if that was actually possible if they go to mass, read a newspaper, know the 10 commandments, watch the tv etc) and christians who are educated fully on the issue vote in favour of unlimited abortion safe in the knowledge that they can genuinely repent later on and all will be rosie in the kingdom of god forever?

    That is what your are saying right? The ignorant voter in favour of abortion commits a lesser sin than the educated voter in favour of abortion but both will receive the mercy of god so long as they truly repent afterwards.

    Have I misunderstood any of that?


  • #379
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Cool, so if the key word is repentance as you state it why can't both christians who are ignorant of the abortion issue (as if that was actually possible if they go to mass, read a newspaper, know the 10 commandments, watch the tv etc) and christians who are educated fully on the issue vote in favour of unlimited abortion safe in the knowledge that they can genuinely repent later on and all will be rosie in the kingdom of god forever?


    How do you know that you can genuinely repent later? The very concept points to a false repentence. God will not be fooled.


  • #380
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    That is what your are saying right? The ignorant voter in favour of abortion commits a lesser sin than the educated voter in favour of abortion but both will receive the mercy of god so long as they truly repent afterwards.


    How could an educated voter, ie. one who knows what abortion entails, vote in favour of it?


  • #381
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Human beings reproduce human beings. That's pretty basic biology. We don't become more human the older we get. You can offer your opinion on when a human life becomes a human being, as far as I'm concerned it's a straw man argument with the sole intention of validating the deliberate killing of the unborn.

    As I've previously stated, I believe that electively ending a human life is wrong. I have no issue with medical termination when the life of the mother is at risk. I don't know anyone that does. But killing a human being purely because it's an inconvenience is morally repugnant.

    So you don't deny you misused the statement from the Harvard professor and you've no rebuttal as to why tadpoles are called tadpoles and not "baby frogs" just as fetuses are fetuses and not human beings.


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  • #382
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    So you don't deny you misused the statement from the Harvard professor and you've no rebuttal as to why tadpoles are called tadpoles and not "baby frogs" just as fetuses are fetuses and not human beings.


    What a load of red herrings and other assorted nonsense.


  • #383
    mach1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Unfortunately, Muslims follow a false God, and will receive their just reward.

    Actual they worship the same God as us the God of Abraham just like the Jews, Jesus is revered as a prophet in Islam(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam), but not the as Son Of God.

    Also, your forgetting the most import commandment "Love Thy Neighbour". If you need to know who is your neighbour reread the story of the Good Samaritan. You'll find out that it is the rest of the human race no matter what God they believe. Jesus did not come to convert, he came to teach us how to respect people.


  • #384
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,846 ✭✭✭54and56


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    How could an educated voter, ie. one who knows what abortion entails, vote in favour of it?

    Why don't you address the question I asked? Can a christian who had educated himself/herself on the issue of abortion and votes in favour of unlimited abortion (for whatever reasons you may not be able to comprehend) but later genuinely respents be forgiven by god or not?

    It's a fairly straightforward question relating to whether or not god will ALWAYS forgive you and welcome you with open arms into the kingdom of glory regardless of what heinous sins you committed providing that before you die you genuinely repent?


  • #385
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    mach1982 wrote:
    Actual they worship the same God as us the God of Abraham just like the Jews, Jesus is revered as a prophet in Islam(


    God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There is no other God.


  • #386
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Why don't you address the question I asked? Can a christian who had educated himself/herself on the issue of abortion and votes in favour of unlimited abortion (for whatever reasons you may not be able to comprehend) but later genuinely respents be forgiven by god or not?

    How could anyone who knows what abortion entails vote in favour of it? It is impossible.


  • #387
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Je_suis_Jean wrote:
    Why don't you address the question I asked? Can a christian who had educated himself/herself on the issue of abortion and votes in favour of unlimited abortion (for whatever reasons you may not be able to comprehend) but later genuinely respents be forgiven by god or not?

    Yes, of course he will be forgiven.


  • #388
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    So you don't deny you misused the statement from the Harvard professor and you've no rebuttal as to why tadpoles are called tadpoles and not "baby frogs" just as fetuses are fetuses and not human beings.

    For crying out loud. There's just no point is there. Tadpoles are called tadpoles and not baby frogs in the same way newborns are called newborns and not "tiny adults".

    I've misused nothing, and engaging with you is tiresome. Here's someone else for you to disagree with:

    "Every human embryologist in the world knows that the life of the new individual HUMAN BEING begins at fertilisation. It is not belief, it is scientific fact". Ward Kishcer, University of Arizona.

    As I've stated, I understand your position when it comes to ignoring basic facts and using dehumanising language. It's imperative to your cause that you do.


  • #389
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There is no other God.
    Owney ... Roman Cathoics don't have a monopoly on opposing abortion ... Moslems also oppose it ... so please stop fighting with your allies ... there are enough pro-abortionists to oppose, without wasting your energies arguing with people who are on your side, on the abortion issue.


  • #390
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    J C wrote:
    Owney ... Roman Cathoics don't have a monopoly on opposing abortion ... Moslems also oppose it ... so please stop fighting with your allies ... there are enough pro-abortionists to oppose, without wasting your energies arguing with people who are on your side, on the abortion issue.


    Everybody must oppose abortion, even those who don't know who Christ is. God's law is written in every heart.


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  • #391
    LeeroyJ.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 713 ✭✭✭LeeroyJ.


    Well good thing i am an atheist and can vote for autonomy and a fundamental human right. And i sincerely hope there are enough other people that can distance themselves from religious BS and make a decision without basing it on fairytales so we can stop exporting our females to other jurisdictions so they can get basic treatment.


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