Women's representation on committees and in clubs

FrannoFan · 10-01-2018 11:41AM #1

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yep. It seems it's still run like a club:

Some collection of blazers :eek:

where is the gender balance!?!

MJohnston · 10-01-2018 01:36PM

FrannoFan wrote: »

where is the gender balance!?!

Where is the "anything but old white men" balance, I'd say. But then I suppose that's most rugby organisations for you.

sydthebeat · 10-01-2018 01:48PM

Sure doesn't Ethel make a great cup of tea, what more do ye want....

prawnsambo · 10-01-2018 01:54PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Sure doesn't Ethel make a great cup of tea, what more do ye want....

Great woman that Ethel. Plays in the back row and then makes the tea at half time.

The Lost Sheep · 10-01-2018 01:58PM

FrannoFan wrote:

where is the gender balance!?!

more women have to look to get involved to be fair. It's same at most levels of committees

MJohnston wrote:

Where is the "anything but old white men" balance, I'd say. But then I suppose that's most rugby organisations for you.

it's most volunteer committees as you generally only get involved once playing days well over and people are into 30/40s before they start on committees and the people on irfu committees will have spent years on club/province oak committees before making the irfu main committees

prawnsambo · 10-01-2018 03:16PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

more women have to look to get involved to be fair. It's same at most levels of committees

This is often the excuse that's trotted out when a lack of female representation is noted. Many of these committee positions are filled by people being approached and asked to join. But when there's no women on them, it's their fault for not putting themselves forward. :rolleyes:

The Lost Sheep · 10-01-2018 03:40PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is often the excuse that's trotted out when a lack of female representation is noted. Many of these committee positions are filled by people being approached and asked to join. But when there's no women on them, it's their fault for not putting themselves forward. :rolleyes:

Many? You sure of that. Parents have been involved in committee level for years and i am on two committees. Club and regional. In different sports. Not approached to do either and it is far from many who are approached. If you really want more women to be involved you need more to look to be involved. Yes acceptance of women in some roles has to be better but you need more women to be involved at club level first. How many clubs have had female presidents/honorary secretaries/honorary treasurers/even many committee members? Its generally from there that people move on to provincial committees. So unless clubs get more females on their committees first and these women then look to go to provincial committees/branch you will get more involved beyond clubs.

prawnsambo · 10-01-2018 03:50PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Many? You sure of that. Parents have been involved in committee level for years and i am on two committees. Club and regional. In different sports. Not approached to do either and it is far from many who are approached. If you really want more women to be involved you need more to look to be involved. Yes acceptance of women in some roles has to be better but you need more women to be involved at club level first. How many clubs have had female presidents/honorary secretaries/honorary treasurers/even many committee members? Its generally from there that people move on to provincial committees. So unless clubs get more females on their committees first and these women then look to go to provincial committees/branch you will get more involved beyond clubs.

I have served and continue to serve on a number of committees. Not one of those positions was canvassed for by myself. In all cases I was approached and asked. One of those committees is a NGB of sport. Less than two months ago, I was asked to stand for a committee position in another sport. I had to turn that down. My only qualification for being asked was having been a member of the club for a couple of years.

I also know many other people who have served and currently serve on committees. To the best of my knowledge, they were asked to volunteer.

That does not mean that they or I did not have to stand and get elected in the normal fashion. But generally there are so few volunteers in sport that these are generally uncontested elections.

The Lost Sheep · 10-01-2018 10:34PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I have served and continue to serve on a number of committees. Not one of those positions was canvassed for by myself. In all cases I was approached and asked. One of those committees is a NGB of sport. Less than two months ago, I was asked to stand for a committee position in another sport. I had to turn that down. My only qualification for being asked was having been a member of the club for a couple of years.

I also know many other people who have served and currently serve on committees. To the best of my knowledge, they were asked to volunteer.

That does not mean that they or I did not have to stand and get elected in the normal fashion. But generally there are so few volunteers in sport that these are generally uncontested elections.

Well that isnt the case for many positions in many clubs. People are not happy with incumbents so offer themselves to go in place and they get the position.
In one case it was a PRO role. I started writing online. Didnt intend on taking position. Was at AGM. No-one proposed so i took the role. I wasnt asked. Yes in some cases the elections are uncontested but that doesnt mean most are uncontested.

Anyway this goes well away from the thread title. The provinces cant copy Leinster's model. No provinces have numbers of Leinster and never will so cant try get same model and have to change/do things differently than leinster.

FrannoFan · 10-01-2018 10:54PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Well that isnt the case for many positions in many clubs. People are not happy with incumbents so offer themselves to go in place and they get the position.
In one case it was a PRO role. I started writing online. Didnt intend on taking position. Was at AGM. No-one proposed so i took the role. I wasnt asked. Yes in some cases the elections are uncontested but that doesnt mean most are uncontested.

Anyway this goes well away from the thread title. The provinces cant copy Leinster's model. No provinces have numbers of Leinster and never will so cant try get same model and have to change/do things differently than leinster.

I think some of the provinces could look at the leinster model for involvement in non traditional rugby areas. Connacht doing well in that also. I felt munster never made hay in the sunshine of 2006/2008 euro glory. Still had same schools competing etc.
Likewise someone posted about ulster traditional areas and the difficulty breaking in. Tommy bowe is the poster boy to crack that. Always excuses for the way things are.

Seems to be more people breaking into leinster from club game/smaller schools than in the past. Michaels / rock might still dominate but contributions coming from across the board making the province stronger.

The Lost Sheep · 10-01-2018 11:04PM

FrannoFan wrote: »

I think some of the provinces could look at the leinster model for involvement in non traditional rugby areas. Connacht doing well in that also. I felt munster never made hay in the sunshine of 2006/2008 euro glory. Still had same schools competing etc.
Likewise someone posted about ulster traditional areas and the difficulty breaking in. Tommy bowe is the poster boy to crack that. Always excuses for the way things are.

Seems to be more people breaking into leinster from club game/smaller schools than in the past. Michaels / rock might still dominate but contributions coming from across the board making the province stronger.

Munster didnt make enough of the success of 2006 and 2008. Yes its the same schools competing but (sorry FrannoFan not being a dick) you havent a notion about youths(clubs) rugby in the province. And in that time frame the number of clubs competing in youths rugby competitions has increased. The standard of play in youths rugby has multiplied several times over. Clubs in youths rugby are now getting far more games against other top sides provincial wide. I played in provincial finals over several years in youths rugby. To do that now in one season is far far harder than it was in my day. Standards are higher and competitions are harder.

In some ways Stephen Ferris is as much the poster boy for Ulster not Tommy Bowe. Ferris did attend a rugby school but also played for Ulster and Ireland under 18 clubs not schools.
There is more breaking through from Leinster and that is down to work the regional coaches, provincial coaches and club coaches as well as academy

prawnsambo · 11-01-2018 09:06AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Well that isnt the case for many positions in many clubs. People are not happy with incumbents so offer themselves to go in place and they get the position.
In one case it was a PRO role. I started writing online. Didnt intend on taking position. Was at AGM. No-one proposed so i took the role. I wasnt asked. Yes in some cases the elections are uncontested but that doesnt mean most are uncontested.

Anyway this goes well away from the thread title. The provinces cant copy Leinster's model. No provinces have numbers of Leinster and never will so cant try get same model and have to change/do things differently than leinster.

So from what you're saying, there's an evident lack of volunteers. Which is pretty much the case across the board. Which means that people need to be asked and persuaded to put their names forward. But for some reason you've decided that it's women's fault for being the same as everyone else.

Or perhaps they look at all male committees and conclude that it's a closed shop. The only way to bridge that gap is to ask them. You might be surprised.

irishbucsfan · 11-01-2018 09:10AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Or perhaps they look at all male committees and conclude that it's a closed shop. The only way to bridge that gap is to ask them. You might be surprised.

This is exactly what is happening. Just need to look at how Railway are being treated. I think The Lost Sheep might be best off asking some people in that club why women are so massively underrepresented.

stephen_n · 11-01-2018 11:11AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is often the excuse that's trotted out when a lack of female representation is noted. Many of these committee positions are filled by people being approached and asked to join. But when there's no women on them, it's their fault for not putting themselves forward. :rolleyes:

Approached? Do you mean begged? In most organizations less than 10% of the membership are willing to do any work, probably half that again who are willing to go on committees.

prawnsambo · 11-01-2018 11:23AM

It's a useful discussion that people seem interested in. Can it be split off?

prawnsambo · 11-01-2018 11:48AM

stephen_n wrote: »

Approached? Do you mean begged? In most organizations less than 10% of the membership are willing to do any work, probably half that again who are willing to go on committees.

Yeah. It's 10% if you're lucky.

Which is why asking/begging women to take up roles is often quite rewarding. Any I have worked with have been massive additions and have brought great energy, commitment and a fresh pov to the job.

FrannoFan · 11-01-2018 12:00PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster didnt make enough of the success of 2006 and 2008. Yes its the same schools competing but (sorry FrannoFan not being a dick) you havent a notion about youths(clubs) rugby in the province. And in that time frame the number of clubs competing in youths rugby competitions has increased. The standard of play in youths rugby has multiplied several times over. Clubs in youths rugby are now getting far more games against other top sides provincial wide. I played in provincial finals over several years in youths rugby. To do that now in one season is far far harder than it was in my day. Standards are higher and competitions are harder.

In some ways Stephen Ferris is as much the poster boy for Ulster not Tommy Bowe. Ferris did attend a rugby school but also played for Ulster and Ireland under 18 clubs not schools.
There is more breaking through from Leinster and that is down to work the regional coaches, provincial coaches and club coaches as well as academy

My point is munster didn't make a success of the 2006/2008 cup wining sides to kick the game on. You are saying they did via the club game. Granted i don't claim to know what is happening with the club game in Munster but if it was a success and we are 10 years on surely the Munster academy should be producing more players for munster? Instead this week we have had 2 18 year olds recruited from SA. Jack power/conor oliver down from Leinster in recent years.

Also I am agreeing with you that the work done by Leisnter RDO's via the clubs is bearing fruit. Club rugby in Leinster is definitely improving to a standard that we have adam byrne/furlong/tom daly all breaking into pro ranks.

The Lost Sheep · 11-01-2018 07:06PM

FrannoFan wrote: »

My point is munster didn't make a success of the 2006/2008 cup wining sides to kick the game on. You are saying they did via the club game. Granted i don't claim to know what is happening with the club game in Munster but if it was a success and we are 10 years on surely the Munster academy should be producing more players for munster? Instead this week we have had 2 18 year olds recruited from SA. Jack power/conor oliver down from Leinster in recent years.

Also I am agreeing with you that the work done by Leisnter RDO's via the clubs is bearing fruit. Club rugby in Leinster is definitely improving to a standard that we have adam byrne/furlong/tom daly all breaking into pro ranks.

There has been major issues in age grade that were in existence then and are still there now in Munster Rugby but....
Munster did and didnt do enough to kick on. The number of age grade sides has increased. Numbers playing has increased and importantly standards have increased. The Munster Academy and the provincial age grade sides from under 18 clubs, under 18 schools and under 19/20 sides have all improved. Winning interpro titles is far from the be all and end all but Munster underage sides are winning interpro titles
But they didnt get IMO enough new clubs created and developed. Some areas were not developed enough.

prawnsambo · 11-01-2018 07:31PM

Lads. Can you not read the thread title?

Women's representation on committees and in clubs

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