The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

Mountainsandh · 07-01-2018 2:04am

Zaph wrote: »

While I've less of a problem with it within forums, the introduction of multiple pages on the front page of the site is something I argued strongly against when it was introduced for that very reason. All of a sudden there were fewer threads on the front page and let's face it, how many people ever navigate onto page 2, never mind page 3? As a result a lot of people probably miss threads that would be of interest to them, which naturally leads to less traffic on the site.

Even more so when it's a bit busy, the pages keep refreshing and you are looking at the same threads on page 2 as you were looking on page 1 a minute ago.

GreeBo · 07-01-2018 7:55am

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Even more so when it's a bit busy, the pages keep refreshing and you are looking at the same threads on page 2 as you were looking on page 1 a minute ago.

So it's not just me then!

Chorus_suck · 07-01-2018 1:06pm

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5rtytry56 · 07-01-2018 1:45pm

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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The aforementioned community on boards is too small , and dwindling as a result of transforming it "into a business model ".

I wonder is there a vicious cycle here too, seriously.

gandalf · 07-01-2018 2:11pm

Wow just looked at that thread from 2016 and what I said then still holds true. The reply below was in response to someone saying moderation was the biggest problem.

I do not believe that's the issue at all.

The issues imho are as follows.

The problem is that for a content based site search does not work properly, it hasn't worked properly in ages. Now I tend to use Google to search boards myself but to have a content based site without a viable search is unforgivable.

There are too many forums. A cleanup and amalgamation is seriously needed.

The re-organisation of the forums was botched. I still use the legacy skin which thankfully has the old top menu. The latest one before the new site was a disaster and has been a major contributor to the drain of users/traffic.

The mobile apps / site have also been botched. I still use the m.boards.ie on my mobile devices. Touch was ****e and this new site is a disaster on a mobile. For a site that is being flouted as responsive it is anything but. Mobile is the most important area to be looking at if there is a long term future for boards. From what I can see they are botching this as well. I am speculating that an outside "consultant" or "consultants" were brought in to advise and again I would speculate they have limited experience with communities like ours.

Imho one of the biggest strengths of boards is the fact it is moderated. Personally as an ex-mod I think the DRP process has weakened this. I would be oldskool and an advocate of the Judge Dredd line of moderating "I am the Law" .

I still stand by this with the addition that some moderation needs to be audited for "personal vendettas" which from contributions in this thread may be an issue.

Personally I think the way forward for boards.ie is to simplify things. Have a simple forum based site with a condensed number of forums. Kill the current topic based menu and bring back one similar to the legacy menu. Stop trying to cater for everyone, you won't and you will please no one with that attitude. Accept that boards will never make a profit but will drive traffic to the sites that Distilled own that do. Have a mechanism in place where these sites fund boards based on the amount of transfer traffic. Talkto or any other similar ventures won't be a compelling prospect for a paying company to get involved in without the boards.ie traffic stats.

AND FOR GOD'S SAKE TEST ANY FUTURE UPDATES PROPERLY BEFORE INFLECTING THEM ON YOUR USERS!

Edit - added this response from later on in that 2016 thread as well.

KERSPLAT! · 07-01-2018 2:11pm

To quote myself from earlier in the thread. I don't believe feedback isn't wanted but I also don't believe any of it is put to much use either. Whether yhats a lack of resources, ability to put it to use or desire to use it, I don't know. A mix of all three I believe.

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

In fairness Mark we could be here in 10 years and site dev will still be as ignored as it ever was. I made a suggestion in the mod forum that had plenty of support. At a guess that's about 2 years ago now and all I ever got was "we're looking into in", the thread was bumped about 10 times and it's still no further along.

Feedback is constantly given on boards by posters and mods, its rarely taken on board if it's anything more than a simple change.

Edit, just checked and it's 3 years in June... disappointing.

Discodog · 07-01-2018 2:33pm

It's sad that this conjures up an impression of a bunch of Admins saying "here we go again". We will pretend we are listening & then do nothing.

The strange thing is that, as Boards is now a commercial concern, it should get better because we are now customers - we should matter.

hullaballoo · 07-01-2018 2:41pm

Sorry but if we're at a stage where not only are posts from within this very thread are being copy pasta verbatim but posts from previous threads are being given similar treatment, then I cannot see how "ok, were done here..." would be inappropriate.

Perhaps if those who have already provided their feedback could step back to (a) allow others a platform to express their thoughts without getting drowned out by walls of text that have already been aired and (b) avoid unnecessary repetition of what are now well-established points-of-view, then that would be beneficial to the progression of this thread.

KERSPLAT! · 07-01-2018 2:45pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

Sorry but if we're at a stage where not only are posts from within this very thread are being copy pasta verbatim but posts from previous threads are being given similar treatment, then I cannot see how "ok, were done here..." would be inappropriate.

Perhaps if those who have already provided their feedback could step back to (a) allow others a platform to express their thoughts without getting drowned out by walls of text that have already been aired and (b) avoid unnecessary repetition of what are now well-established points-of-view, then that would be beneficial to the progression of this thread.

The poster put together a detailed post, some feedback on it would be nice instead of brushing it aside. Feedback is constantly given on boards but rarely taken on board from what I've seen, as per my above post. I think posters can be forgiven for thinking this will be no different. There are a lot of people who care about boards in this thread but you're losing them quickly and soon enough no one will give a fcuk what happens.

gandalf · 07-01-2018 3:00pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

Sorry but if we're at a stage where not only are posts from within this very thread are being copy pasta verbatim but posts from previous threads are being given similar treatment, then I cannot see how "ok, were done here..." would be inappropriate.

Perhaps if those who have already provided their feedback could step back to (a) allow others a platform to express their thoughts without getting drowned out by walls of text that have already been aired and (b) avoid unnecessary repetition of what are now well-established points-of-view, then that would be beneficial to the progression of this thread.

My point is that using that post of mine from 2016 as an example that an awful lot of what has been said in this thread has been said before multiple times in multiple threads. We have been told that after a lot of effort by the admins, mods and community managers these ideas in all these threads have been collated and are going to be discussed but then nothing is communicated or acted upon?

At this stage we all know what the substantive issues are barring anomalies of specific issues. When can we expect some real responses to the queries and ideas that have been put forward by the community or are we going to treated to more silica grain head planting from the site management?

hullaballoo · 07-01-2018 3:11pm

The points have already been made and it is unfair to everyone contributing to this thread to have that kind of duplication. It is not being brushed aside as you know, every admin who has contributed has said they've taken away all of the points made in this thread. Some have apparently even used spreadsheets.

Your personal dissatisfaction with admins is noted but that you took my post to be an indication that anything posted here was being ignored or disregarded is a bit off the wall notwithstanding that. Every effort is being made by the admins at this stage to communicate our willingness to take on board and discuss and deal with every discrete point raised here.

However, the aggregate benefit of a thread like this starts to dwindle for everyone when certain behaviours start to creep in, such as rehashing points from within this thread and trying to set out that inaction on those points at this stage represents some sort of brushing aside by admins of feedback.

And everyone who has contributed here, as well as many who have been accused openly of indifference or worse, cares in no small way about this site, it's continued well-being and attempting to make improvements to it. It's utterly bizarrely disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 07-01-2018 3:20pm

Protestations of "but we do care, but we are listening, stop hurting our feelings" are all well and good but established users are cynical of them with good reason. Actions speak louder than words.

Chorus_suck · 07-01-2018 3:20pm

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Fr_Dougal · 07-01-2018 3:23pm

Keira Thankful Target wrote: »

Protestations of "but we do care, but we are listening, stop hurting our feelings" are all well and good but established users are cynical of them with good reason. Actions speak louder than words.

Yeah but they’re using spreadsheets now, whole new world.

gandalf · 07-01-2018 3:25pm

I've already said that I appreciated the input of both the admins and mods earlier in this thread hullabaloo but let's not kid ourselves they can in reality do nothing about the issues the community has with the site without the action, input and cooperation of the actual management of the site and their paid agents. Based on previous threads where we were told things would be discussed and acted upon with no real results actually happening it appears as another poster has suggested that the Boards management (not the volunteers who keep the site running) do not welcome feedback at all.

Ewan Hoosarmi · 07-01-2018 3:28pm

Discodog wrote: »

It's sad that this conjures up an impression of a bunch of Admins saying "here we go again". We will pretend we are listening & then do nothing.

The strange thing is that, as Boards is now a commercial concern, it should get better because we are now customers - we should matter.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We're not customers, we are the product. Advertisers are the customers.

gandalf · 07-01-2018 3:31pm

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We're not customers, we are the product. Advertisers are the customers.

We are also content providers whose efforts drive more "product" to the site.

Discodog · 07-01-2018 3:31pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

The points have already been made and it is unfair to everyone contributing to this thread to have that kind of duplication. It is not being brushed aside as you know, every admin who has contributed has said they've taken away all of the points made in this thread. Some have apparently even used spreadsheets.

Your personal dissatisfaction with admins is noted but that you took my post to be an indication that anything posted here was being ignored or disregarded is a bit off the wall notwithstanding that. Every effort is being made by the admins at this stage to communicate our willingness to take on board and discuss and deal with every discrete point raised here.

However, the aggregate benefit of a thread like this starts to dwindle for everyone when certain behaviours start to creep in, such as rehashing points from within this thread and trying to set out that inaction on those points at this stage represents some sort of brushing aside by admins of feedback.

And everyone who has contributed here, as well as many who have been accused openly of indifference or worse, cares in no small way about this site, it's continued well-being and attempting to make improvements to it. It's utterly bizarrely disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Ok so how about giving a timeline as to when the initial discussions will conclude together with a list of requested changes & whether they will be implemented.

Many people have given their thoughts & time to this thread, they deserve to be informed about future decisions.

Discodog · 07-01-2018 3:33pm

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We're not customers, we are the product. Advertisers are the customers.

And they won't be here if we aren't

KERSPLAT! · 07-01-2018 3:42pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

The points have already been made and it is unfair to everyone contributing to this thread to have that kind of duplication. It is not being brushed aside as you know, every admin who has contributed has said they've taken away all of the points made in this thread. Some have apparently even used spreadsheets.

Your personal dissatisfaction with admins is noted but that you took my post to be an indication that anything posted here was being ignored or disregarded is a bit off the wall notwithstanding that. Every effort is being made by the admins at this stage to communicate our willingness to take on board and discuss and deal with every discrete point raised here.

However, the aggregate benefit of a thread like this starts to dwindle for everyone when certain behaviours start to creep in, such as rehashing points from within this thread and trying to set out that inaction on those points at this stage represents some sort of brushing aside by admins of feedback.

And everyone who has contributed here, as well as many who have been accused openly of indifference or worse, cares in no small way about this site, it's continued well-being and attempting to make improvements to it. It's utterly bizarrely disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

My dissatisfaction is not with admin but with the feedback process and implementation of changes as a whole on boards. I think mods, cmods and admin do a fantastic job with the tools they have. I think Mark and Niamh, as well as the lads in the background, all do a fantastic job but more needs to be done with feedback than has happened in the past, in my opinion.

I don't understand the need for your last paragraph, I agree with it. My point was that those giving feedback over and over, throughout the years, and not seeing changes will soon stop providing it and as has been said numerous times across the site, one of the best things boards management get from the posters here is their feedback.

I'll leave it there, no need for me to derail the thread any further.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 07-01-2018 3:52pm

You're not derailing the thread kersplat, it's good to hear that perspective from a cmod.

Beasty · 07-01-2018 4:13pm

Discodog wrote: »

Ok so how about giving a timeline as to when the initial discussions will conclude together with a list of requested changes & whether they will be implemented.

Many people have given their thoughts & time to this thread, they deserve to be informed about future decisions.

I have already indicated I intend listing the points raised before the thread is closed. Alongside that I propose stating where I think responsibility lies to consider things further (Site Development Team, Office, Admins, Mods and indeed regular users)

However it's not my job to come up with solutions. We will work together to do that where we can, and explain those suggestions we have considered and any reason for not taking them forward (and to be clear most of the points raised are not black and white and equally some suggestions made were countered by others so the mere fact we mention something does not mean it will be implanted). Issues for the site development team and office are for them to prioritise. As Admins we can give them a nudge, but we don't pay the salaries

Personally speaking I think there are a number of issues in connection with standardising moderation that should be easy to implement and have been generally supported in this thread, There are other points that require further consideration, and I think the current Feedback format should be subject to an Open discussion, but that is something we indicated was likely when the changes were introduced in the middle of last year. I think Mark from the office has already indicated his support for that in this thread, but we need to take away all the feedback from this thread and prioritise any suggestions we consider worthy of further consideration/implementation.

Chorus_suck · 07-01-2018 4:19pm

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OldMrBrennan83 · 07-01-2018 4:20pm

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ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-01-2018 4:23pm

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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He has answered that as best he can.

Chorus_suck · 07-01-2018 4:27pm

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IvyTheTerrible · 07-01-2018 4:27pm

When technical issues are brought up numerous times and ignored/not resolved (search, problems with the touch site), I'm not filled with confidence that more fundamental changes will be made.

KyussB · 07-01-2018 4:31pm

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

To quote myself from earlier in the thread. I don't believe feedback isn't wanted but I also don't believe any of it is put to much use either. Whether yhats a lack of resources, ability to put it to use or desire to use it, I don't know. A mix of all three I believe.

I agree, it's probably more that they don't know what to do with all the Feedback, and it just gets backlogged on a big 'todo' list.

So, I'd advise moderators/posters alike, to push for concrete effort from site devs, into 1 single thing, for a small amount of hours every week.

Many of the problems with moderation, can be solved/alleviated by technical solutions - so get a consensus among the posters, mods and then admins, to back 2-4 hours from a site dev, into a single task, per week - starting with the 'hide thread' feature - if the office/site-devs respect the communities contribution at all, then they can afford to dedicate 2-4 hours a week for this, it's not asking much...

The trend is that little of anything concrete and constructive happens from feedback - so to change that, everyone should pick 1 single concrete thing, and push for it, hard - and get a commitment from the site to follow through on it, persistently.

Could other posters/mods give feedback, on the idea of a site-dev putting just 2-4 hours a week, into the Hide Thread feature? (and then when that is done, doing the same with another community/mod-decided task, for reducing moderator interference/workload on the forum)

Barry Badrinath · 07-01-2018 4:51pm

Can an Admin, CMod or other Boards rep please outline what sitewide changes have been implimented in the last 5 years.

Can you also include what changes were implimented as part of userbase feedback and what ones were "pet projects".

It would be helpful for further debate and a tangible acknowlegement of successes and failures.

Thank you.

07-01-2018 9:59pm

gandalf wrote: »

the Boards management (not the volunteers who keep the site running) do not welcome feedback at all.

Let's keep that on the front page of this thread and see what they say. I agree, follow the money

The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

Comments

The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18