The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

pilly · 05-01-2018 3:15pm

GreeBo wrote: »

That was my post that you replied to...so I'm confused.

So I should have been more specific, I don't agree that it's welcoming.

pilly · 05-01-2018 3:17pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Ok so how about 3?

If no one else is posting then they are not impacting on anyone else, why should they have to take it to PM?

My point is not AH specific or indeed related to AH at all, its general feedback on the site.

Also, one thread takes up the same amount of space regardless of how many posts or how many posters are in it...so I dont follow that point?

The more threads, the more work for the moderators I presume? I don't know, you'd have to ask a moderator that one.

GreeBo · 05-01-2018 3:24pm

pilly wrote: »

The more threads, the more work for the moderators I presume? I don't know, you'd have to ask a moderator that one.

More posts = more work, more threads doesnt really make much difference tbh.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 05-01-2018 3:25pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

On that point, of the 1467 posts in this thread 32% of posts are by the top 10 contributors and 47% are by the top 20 contributors.

I imagine most threads would have a similar type of contribution profile over the same level of postings.

Where do you draw the line on what the trigger point is?

The longer this thread goes on, the closer to the chat levels this thread will be going. Those most invested in the subject will continue to contribute and those less invested will either dip in and out or just let it in the hope it will die off as they have no interest in the subject any more

Does that mean this thread would be moved to the chat subforum and, again, at what point is it triggered?

GreeBo · 05-01-2018 3:26pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On that point, of the 1467 posts in this thread 32% of posts are by the top 10 contributors and 47% are by the top 20 contributors.

I imagine most threads would have a similar type of contribution profile over the same level of postings.

Where do you draw the line on what the trigger point is?

The longer this thread goes on, the closer to the chat levels this thread will be going. Those most invested in the subject will continue to contribute and those less invested will either dip in and out or just let it in the hope it will die off as they have no interest in the subject any more

Does that mean this thread would be moved to the chat subforum and, again, at what point is it triggered?

I dont think number of posts is what defines a thread as chat or not.
Its the content and tone of the posts imo.

Fr_Dougal · 05-01-2018 3:30pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On that point, of the 1467 posts in this thread 32% of posts are by the top 10 contributors and 47% are by the top 20 contributors.

I imagine most threads would have a similar type of contribution profile over the same level of postings.

Where do you draw the line on what the trigger point is?

The longer this thread goes on, the closer to the chat levels this thread will be going. Those most invested in the subject will continue to contribute and those less invested will either dip in and out or just let it in the hope it will die off as they have no interest in the subject any more

Does that mean this thread would be moved to the chat subforum and, again, at what point is it triggered?

This thread has a purpose, it’s feedback. It will be closed soon enough.

The other threads are users chatting to each other, there is generally no discussion; it’s like Facebook “u ok hun?”, “no I’m cold lol”. “How was your day, hun”. Fluff, not proper discussion.

retro:electro · 05-01-2018 3:34pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

This thread has a purpose, it’s feedback. It will be closed soon enough.

The other threads are users chatting to each other, there is generally no discussion; it’s like Facebook “u ok hun?”, “no I’m cold lol”. “How was your day, hun”. Fluff, not proper discussion.

I think this is really mean spirited. Have you read the testimonials from the people who actually use those threads and have found them a great resource for friendship and support during crap times? It's getting really boring reading such dismissive summaries of thriving threads by posters who've never even set foot in them, not to mention inaccurate assumptions about cliquey posters and other hogwash to justify their disdain for amassing front page "real estate".

mirrorwall14 · 05-01-2018 3:35pm

NollagShona wrote: »

The ability to “hide” threads would be awesome

I just want to bump this one for emphasis. If it were possible from a coding perspective it would be super, and would eliminate the "chat" problem without moving anything.

Also to give a completely non after hours example I set up the Dec 2017 Pregnancy thread. I later lost the baby. It always seemed to be at the worst moments I saw it on the front page. I have popped in the odd time to wish well but generally only when I'm able for it. Usually I hopped off boards for the evening if I saw it.

gifted · 05-01-2018 3:37pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

This thread has a purpose, it’s feedback. It will be closed soon enough.

The other threads are users chatting to each other, there is generally no discussion; it’s like Facebook “u ok hun?”, “no I’m cold lol”. “How was your day, hun”. Fluff, not proper discussion.

With respect but that's hog wash.....I don't and have never used the term Hun......it's quite obvious you have an issue with chat threads....don't be saying things that are not true......

_Dara_ · 05-01-2018 3:38pm

Keira Thankful Target wrote: »

Could you give an example of the type of threads you would like to see more of?

Sure.

Under this relatively new username, I have one thread in an AH. It was about a Youtube video that showed all the ads that were on during a film on RTÉ in 1984. I'm not bringing up my own thread to promote it, I was happy enough with how the thread did and it sparked a bit of discussion about how things have changed in Ireland in 30 years. I just think it's a good example of a non-serious, non-chat thread.

TBH, I think you're being a tad disingenuous here. Like, you really couldn't think of what I meant by a non-serious thread that isn't a chat thread? I don't believe that. You've been on this site since 2007. Funny Houses/Flats To Rent is a good, long-running, non-serious non-chat thread. IMO, it's an important thread from a state-of-the-nation perspective, simultaneously throwing up awful digs for us all to chuckle at and highlighting the dire state of the dysfunctional rental market in Ireland. A good, solid, classic AH long-runner.

So there's two examples. And I can easily find many more. But so can you.

Fr_Dougal · 05-01-2018 3:38pm

anna080 wrote: »

I think this is really mean spirited. Have you read the testimonials from the people who actually use those threads and have found them a great resource for friendship and support during crap times? It's getting really boring reading such dismissive summaries of thriving threads by posters who've never even set foot in them, not to mention inaccurate assumptions about cliquey posters and other hogwash to justify their disdain for assuming front page "real estate".

I decided to have a look at one of them yesterday, read the last page of posts. When posters on this thread were referred to as ‘****’, I decided that it wasn’t for me.

KyussB · 05-01-2018 3:40pm

If peoples response to over-moderation and restrictions on forums leading to the decline of said forums, is to use moderator powers to move stuff off a forum onto a (dead at birth) sub-forum, then this thread really has lost track of the main problems with the site, and has just started focusing on minor/non-problems, and is proposing solutions to those non-problems which would actually damage the site even more with over-moderation and fucking around with the placement of discussions...

The solution to the problems on the forum, is to stop fucking around with random arbitrary rules and restrictions, and just leave people the fuck alone to chat about whatever they want - in whatever heated/non-heated way they want (without direct abuse), wherever they want (so long as it follows from the previous flow of discussion, not forcing it to follow a strict 'topic' which has been moved past long ago) - and to just stop adding new stupid rules and restrictions - to remove rules/restrictions, instead...

I mean really, the thread is so big now that the main points are already lost to people it seems - and all people can focus on is micromanaging tiny things instead - and this is what the mods/admins are going to end up focused on, too.

If there are so many threads of a particular type/style on the main forum - 'perhaps' rather than being a problem with the main forum, it's actually a sign of problems with the forums where these discussiosn are supposed to be taking place - and that the focus should not be on dicking around with the sites main forum, but fixing what is wrong with the sub-forums where those type/style of posts would otherwise be - so that discussion naturally moves there, instead of being forced there when the problems are unresolved...

Instead of using the stick approach to force people into certain parts of the site all the time, use the carrot approach - draw people into those other areas of the site, by fixing the problems which make people avoid those areas - instead of just ignoring the problems.

For almost every potential 'problem' where there is a moderator solution proposed, there is a simple technical solution which doesn't affect the site as drastically as over-moderation (hide threads, being the main one, here) - I've written entire threads of technical solutions to moderation problems, before in Feedback - so the site owners need to stop making excuses about not implementing fairly simple technical solutions, and just get on with it - it's wasting both moderator and users time/effort, and harming the community, to be indefinitely putting off adding all the previously proposed techical solutions.

I mean, look at how much time/effort was put in by the owners, to add all the Talk To forums and the partial redesign of that part of the site - yet they choose not to prioritize any time to simple technical tweaks that reduce the need for moderator micro-management...stop delaying and making excuses, get it done - the major site redeisgn is dead already, don't use completing that as an excuse to delay these tweaks...

retro:electro · 05-01-2018 3:41pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I decided to have a look at one of them yesterday, read the last page of posts. When posters on this thread were referred to as ‘****’, I decided that it wasn’t for me.

Well when you're over here for days slagging them off, and reducing their considered contributions as "Facebook fluff" and other dismissive jargon, what do you expect?

You've been ridiculing those posters for days now, mocking the tone and giving examples of posts that don't exist. Don't tell me you're suddenly offended at being played by your own game. Because that would be hypocritical.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 05-01-2018 3:43pm

Keira Thankful Target wrote: »

Could you give an example of the type of threads you would like to see more of?

_Dara_ wrote: »

Sure.

Under this relatively new username, I have one thread in an AH. It was about a Youtube video that showed all the ads that were on during a film on RTÉ in 1984. I'm not bringing up my own thread to promote it, I was happy enough with how the thread did and it sparked a bit of discussion about how things have changed in Ireland in 30 years. I just think it's a good example of a non-serious, non-chat thread.

TBH, I think you're being a tad disingenuous here. Like, you really couldn't think of what I meant by a non-serious thread that isn't a chat thread? I don't believe that. Funny Houses/Flats To Rent is a good, long-running, non-serious non-chat thread. IMO, it's an important thread from a state-of-the-nation perspective, simultaneously throwing up awful digs for us all to chuckle at and highlighting the dire state of the dysfunctional of the rental market in Ireland. A good, solid, classic AH long-runner.

So there's two examples. And I can easily find many more. But so can you.

Yeah there's no need to be so hostile, it was a question asked in good faith, big ingenuous head on me. It's been a big long list of I don't want this I don't want that, all I was trying to do was make sure I was properly understanding what you DO want.

Thank you for giving concrete examples, the stroppy attitude is totally unnecessary though.

_Dara_ · 05-01-2018 3:54pm

Keira Thankful Target wrote: »

Yeah there's no need to be so hostile, it was a question asked in good faith, big ingenuous head on me. It's been a big long list of I don't want this I don't want that, all I was trying to do was make sure I was properly understanding what you DO want.

Thank you for giving concrete examples, the stroppy attitude is totally unnecessary though.

I disagree. You know well what kind of threads I meant so feigning innocence of what I mean is very transparent. Unless you thought I had nothing to back up my points? I'm not sure which is worse. I'm not licking my opinions on this matter from the stones. I have given them thought. You've been here a decade. It's not remotely believable that you can't think of what a non-serious thread that isn't a chat thread would entail. A new user? I could forgive them not knowing, especially with the proliferation of chat threads. But not a forum veteran.

Boards.ie: Mark · 05-01-2018 3:55pm

KyussB wrote: »

For almost every potential 'problem' where there is a moderator solution proposed, there is a simple technical solution which doesn't affect the site as drastically as over-moderation (hide threads, being the main one, here) - I've written entire threads of technical solutions to moderation problems, before in Feedback - so the site owners need to stop making excuses about not implementing fairly simple technical solutions, and just get on with it - it's wasting both moderator and users time/effort, and harming the community, to be indefinitely putting off adding all the previously proposed techical solutions.

Unfortunately, "simple" and "technical solution" often don't go hand in hand from our experience. VBulletin throws some...interesting...barriers in the way. I like the idea of being able to hide threads.

Main points aren't getting lost though. Beasty has already pointed out that he's been keeping tabs on things and a few others have been taking notes too.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 05-01-2018 3:57pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

I disagree. You know well what kind of threads I meant so feigning innocence of what I mean is very transparent. Unless you thought I had nothing to back up my points? I'm not sure which is worse. I'm not licking my opinions on this matter from the stones. I have given them thought. You've been here a decade. It's not remotely believable that you can't think of what a non-serious thread that isn't a chat thread would entail. A new user? I could forgive them not knowing, especially with the proliferation of chat threads. But not a forum veteran.

I can think of MY idea of what that is Dara, I was asking you what YOUR idea of it was because I don't presume to know what's inside another person's mind. Because I'm not a mindreader, though you apparently are.

Really couldn't give a crap if you don't believe me, it was an honest attempt to make sure I was clear on the opinion of a poster with whom I disagreed on this particular matter but who I liked and respected. Not an issue anymore, so, there's that.

Esel · 05-01-2018 4:04pm

Boards.ie: Mark wrote: »

Unfortunately, "simple" and "technical solution" often don't go hand in hand from our experience. VBulletin throws some...interesting...barriers in the way. I like the idea of being able to hide threads.

Main points aren't getting lost though. Beasty has already pointed out that he's been keeping tabs on things and a few others have been taking notes too.

+1 on the ignore thread option.

Tom Mann Centuria · 05-01-2018 4:06pm

KyussB wrote: »

If peoples response to over-moderation and restrictions on forums leading to the decline of said forums, is to use moderator powers to move stuff off a forum onto a (dead at birth) sub-forum, then this thread really has lost track of the main problems with the site, and has just started focusing on minor/non-problems, and is proposing solutions to those non-problems which would actually damage the site even more with over-moderation and fucking around with the placement of discussions...

The solution to the problems on the forum, is to stop fucking around with random arbitrary rules and restrictions, and just leave people the fuck alone to chat about whatever they want - in whatever heated/non-heated way they want (without direct abuse), wherever they want (so long as it follows from the previous flow of discussion, not forcing it to follow a strict 'topic' which has been moved past long ago) - and to just stop adding new stupid rules and restrictions - to remove rules/restrictions, instead...

I mean really, the thread is so big now that the main points are already lost to people it seems - and all people can focus on is micromanaging tiny things instead - and this is what the mods/admins are going to end up focused on, too.

If there are so many threads of a particular type/style on the main forum - 'perhaps' rather than being a problem with the main forum, it's actually a sign of problems with the forums where these discussiosn are supposed to be taking place - and that the focus should not be on dicking around with the sites main forum, but fixing what is wrong with the sub-forums where those type/style of posts would otherwise be - so that discussion naturally moves there, instead of being forced there when the problems are unresolved...

Instead of using the stick approach to force people into certain parts of the site all the time, use the carrot approach - draw people into those other areas of the site, by fixing the problems which make people avoid those areas - instead of just ignoring the problems.

For almost every potential 'problem' where there is a moderator solution proposed, there is a simple technical solution which doesn't affect the site as drastically as over-moderation (hide threads, being the main one, here) - I've written entire threads of technical solutions to moderation problems, before in Feedback - so the site owners need to stop making excuses about not implementing fairly simple technical solutions, and just get on with it - it's wasting both moderator and users time/effort, and harming the community, to be indefinitely putting off adding all the previously proposed techical solutions.

I mean, look at how much time/effort was put in by the owners, to add all the Talk To forums and the partial redesign of that part of the site - yet they choose not to prioritize any time to simple technical tweaks that reduce the need for moderator micro-management...stop delaying and making excuses, get it done - the major site redeisgn is dead already, don't use completing that as an excuse to delay these tweaks...

It wasn't suggested by a moderator.

_Dara_ · 05-01-2018 4:06pm

Keira Thankful Target wrote: »

Really couldn't give a crap if you don't believe me, it was an honest attempt to make sure I was clear on the opinion of a poster with whom I disagreed on this particular matter but who I liked and respected. Not an issue anymore, so, there's that.

My aim is to get my points across clearly and, yes, I'll stick up for myself if I feel I need to. If that means someone loses respect for me, so be it. I've already said I don't put much stock in the community side of things on boards.ie so that's a-ok with me.

riffmongous · 05-01-2018 4:07pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On that point, of the 1467 posts in this thread 32% of posts are by the top 10 contributors and 47% are by the top 20 contributors.

I imagine most threads would have a similar type of contribution profile over the same level of postings.

Where do you draw the line on what the trigger point is?

The longer this thread goes on, the closer to the chat levels this thread will be going. Those most invested in the subject will continue to contribute and those less invested will either dip in and out or just let it in the hope it will die off as they have no interest in the subject any more

Does that mean this thread would be moved to the chat subforum and, again, at what point is it triggered?

I've said it a few times now but I'd love to see all the long running threads bumped off to a subforum, focusing on just chat is a tad unfair when the Abortion, Trump, Homeless, North Korea, Weed threads cause the exact same issue for me of just constantly being there and taking up precious front page space. Including the trivial chat ones there are about 15 long running threads and about 10 of them will be present on the front page at any time, that leaves space for only 10 other threads, some of which I'll already have seen that day or be a few days old too, or worse be a rehash of some other thread on travellers or immigrants.

It just makes the place seem so stale. I always come to AH first but more and more often there is just nothing new to see and I'm 'forced' to head to Reddit Ireland where I don't feel a part of the community so much yet but there is constantly new and varied content every single day thanks to the way it works

Buford T. Justice XIX · 05-01-2018 4:07pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont think number of posts is what defines a thread as chat or not.
Its the content and tone of the posts imo.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

This thread has a purpose, it’s feedback. It will be closed soon enough.

The other threads are users chatting to each other, there is generally no discussion; it’s like Facebook “u ok hun?”, “no I’m cold lol”. “How was your day, hun”. Fluff, not proper discussion.

And yet the threads you dismiss as unworthy of merit are thriving in terms of posts, posters and general views.

The reason they are is because people are connecting with them and view them as important, more important than the more 'worthy' threads, the more serious threads that you desire in AH.

The majority of posters seem to view those threads as being more in the spirit of AH than the threads you desire. Perhaps you need to open/contribute more to those threads you desire to become the backbone of AH instead of dismissing others threads?

It would seem to be the easiest way to progress towards where you wish AH to be rather than to move those threads to a subforum.

Or indeed, a counter argument could be to move the serious threads to their own subforum where the serious discussions you desire can be carried out with likeminded posters?

Would that be acceptable to you?

KERSPLAT! · 05-01-2018 4:09pm

In fairness Mark we could be here in 10 years and site dev will still be as ignored as it ever was. I made a suggestion in the mod forum that had plenty of support. At a guess that's about 2 years ago now and all I ever got was "we're looking into in", the thread was bumped about 10 times and it's still no further along.

Feedback is constantly given on boards by posters and mods, its rarely taken on board if it's anything more than a simple change.

Edit, just checked and it's 3 years in June... disappointing.

Barry Badrinath · 05-01-2018 4:09pm

Esel wrote: »

+1 on the ignore thread option.

Also on the desktop site, if you have someone on the ignore list, it would be nice to completely hide that they posted (not just their post) and also anyone who quotes their post on both the desktop and touch site.

Esel · 05-01-2018 4:10pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I've said it a few times now but I'd love to see all the long running threads bumped off to a subforum, focusing on just chat is a tad unfair when the Abortion, Trump, Homeless, North Korea, Weed threads cause the exact same issue for me of just constantly being there and taking up precious front page space. Including the trivial chat ones there are about 15 long running threads and about 10 of them will be present on the front page at any time, that leaves space for only 10 other threads, some of which I'll already have seen that day or be a few days old too, or worse be a rehash of some other thread on travellers or immigrants.

It just makes the place seem so stale. I always come to AH first but more and more often there is just nothing new to see and I'm 'forced' to head to Reddit Ireland where I don't feel a part of the community so much yet but there is constantly new and varied content every single day thanks to the way it works

Would a 'New threads in Forum' be a good option?

Chorus_suck · 05-01-2018 4:11pm

This post has been deleted.

KyussB · 05-01-2018 4:11pm

Boards.ie: Mark wrote: »

Unfortunately, "simple" and "technical solution" often don't go hand in hand from our experience. VBulletin throws some...interesting...barriers in the way. I like the idea of being able to hide threads.

Main points aren't getting lost though. Beasty has already pointed out that he's been keeping tabs on things and a few others have been taking notes too.

I'm a programmer for a living so I can appreciate the complexity of supposedly simple tweaks - but we're talking technical solutions that have been proposed years ago, some probably a decade ago even.

So the complexity excuse doesn't really cut it. The site has had plenty of time to put in the required development efforts, it needs to get on with it and at least start tackling the low-hanging fruit.

Get together a community-suggested list of technical solutions (from the userbase, and talk privately with the mods about a feature-request list, too), prioritize the ones which reduce moderator effort and interference with forums (i.e. putting the power into the hands of individual users, and removing moderator interference, is priority no.1 - like hide-threads), and failing that in the short-term, go for the low-hanging fruit that doesn't require a huge amount of refactoring before implementing, while still giving mods an easier time (so that they can give users an easier time).

NollagShona · 05-01-2018 4:11pm

I really think of an ignore thread option came from this thread it would be worth it.

_Dara_ · 05-01-2018 4:12pm

riffmongous wrote: »

It just makes the place seem so stale. I always come to AH first but more and more often there is just nothing new to see and I'm 'forced' to head to Reddit Ireland where I don't feel a part of the community so much yet but there is constantly new and varied content every single day thanks to the way it works

+1

I've started to look elsewhere for my messageboard fix too. It's a shame because I loved the vibrancy of AH even just a few years back.

NollagShona · 05-01-2018 4:15pm

If you prefer reddit, why not just use it?
Why ask boards to be reddit?
Small fish in big pond?

The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

Comments

The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18