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Bendy buses? Good, bad or abomination?

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  • 02-01-2018 11:11pm
    #1
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Mod: This thread has been split from Metro North to a new thread as it is off topic for Metro North.
    yer man! wrote: »
    This is basically a bus, a lot more could be achieved for lower cost with a segregated bus lane and using bendy buses.

    No, not bendy buses! They are an abomination. Bouncy, noisy, slow, and smelly. They have no advantage over the double-decker we know so well.

    The six wheeler that is used on the 46A and the 145 is much better.

    The old trolley bus is a good solution still used in Geneva. O/H wires and rubber tyres. Accelerates fast (as it is electric) and quiet for the same reason, with no pollution.


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    #2
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    No, not bendy buses! They are an abomination. Bouncy, noisy, slow, and smelly. They have no advantage over the double-decker we know so well.

    The six wheeler that is used on the 46A and the 145 is much better.

    The old trolley bus is a good solution still used in Geneva. O/H wires and rubber tyres. Accelerates fast (as it is electric) and quiet for the same reason, with no pollution.

    The bendy buses were only bad because no changes were made to road or stop layout to accommodate them. I travelled on them on the continent and they worked very well as the roads and stops were suited towards and the buses had three or four doors allowing swift boarding and alighting. The ones I travelled on were not bouncy either.


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    #3
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    The bendy buses were a nightmare, it often felt like the rear coach had no suspension but the driver never noticed because he was in a different coach. The engine would heat the bejaysus out of the rear seats too.

    They leaked what I assume was hydraulic fluid onto passengers as well, just for good measure


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    #4
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Bambi wrote: »
    The bendy buses were a nightmare, it often felt like the rear coach had no suspension but the driver never noticed because he was in a different coach. The engine would heat the bejaysus out of the rear seats too.

    They leaked what I assume was hydraulic fluid onto passengers as well, just for good measure

    They were a disaster because there no proper planning or thought went into them. It was thought they could operate in the same manner a standard single or double decker would operate. Bendy buses need longer stops to allow passenger board and disembark at multiple doors and drivers should have been given better training to operate them.

    Also Wrighbus were a poor choice as they did not have much prior experience of building Bendy buses as they only manufacture buses for the UK and Irish market where Bendy buses are not common. They should have gone for a continental manufacturer.


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    #5
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Not sure what the bus stops have to do with the yokes death rattling and leaking fluid like a Lancaster bomber coming back from Berlin

    Even if they had the bestest bendy buses driven by the bestest drivers they would still be the wrong model for a city centre like Dublin


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    #6
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Bambi wrote: »
    Not sure what the bus stops have to do with the yokes death rattling and leaking fluid like a Lancaster bomber coming back from Berlin

    Even if they had the bestest bendy buses driven by the bestest drivers they would still be the wrong model for a city centre like Dublin

    QBC's such the Stillorgan Road and the Lucan Road would be perfect for them if the stops were right. The buses they bought were crap not the idea of running bendy buses. The reason they are not suited to Dublin is because Dublin has not adapted itself for their operation with various things like road layout and stop layout if we could change those then they would work fine like they do in other cities.


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    #7
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    QBC's such the Stillorgan Road and the Lucan Road would be perfect for them if the stops were right. The buses they bought were crap not the idea of running bendy buses. The reason they are not suited to Dublin is because Dublin has not adapted itself for their operation with various things like road layout and stop layout if we could change those then they would work fine like they do in other cities.

    So all we have to do is redesign the city for the sake of bendy buses, sounds reasonable :confused:

    I'm trying to think of a single benefit those jalopys actually brought...nope nothing.


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    #8
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Bambi wrote: »
    So all we have to do is redesign the city for the sake of bendy buses, sounds reasonable :confused:

    I'm trying to think of a single benefit those jalopys actually brought...nope nothing.

    No a few twerks to road layout here and there such as better segragated bus lanes, longer bus stops and better segragated cycle lanes and bendy buses could work well these changes would be more a case of proper urban road planning which would benefit all road users rather than designing the roads only for bendybuses.

    Having bendy buses (running properly) as opposed to double deckers would have the benefits of reduced dwell times resulting in buses running to schedule more so than on one or two door double deckers where passengers are boarding and alighting at the same door. Bendy Buses can also carry more people than double deckers as most have the same seated capacity and a much larger standing capacity.


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    #9
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Use them when visiting Zürich. No issues with them and actually quite like them as their dwells times are absolutely minimal.


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    #10
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    In Nice they use very short buses with maybe 20 seats and standing for 67 passengers. They are like mobile sardine tins but very efficient and quick, and very cheap - €1.50 for a 90 minute duration ticket.

    Not a bend in the bus.


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    #11
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    No a few twerks to road layout here and there such as better segragated bus lanes, longer bus stops and better segragated cycle lanes and bendy buses could work well these changes would be more a case of proper urban road planning which would benefit all road users rather than designing the roads only for bendybuses.

    Having bendy buses (running properly) as opposed to double deckers would have the benefits of reduced dwell times resulting in buses running to schedule more so than on one or two door double deckers where passengers are boarding and alighting at the same door. Bendy Buses can also carry more people than double deckers as most have the same seated capacity and a much larger standing capacity.
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Use them when visiting Zürich. No issues with them and actually quite like them as their dwells times are absolutely minimal.


    There are very few routes that would only need a few twerks to run bendy buses. There would be a lot more changes needed. A much more cost-effective solution to delayed bus journeys would be banning cyclists and taxis from bus lanes during morning and evening peak travel.

    The dwell time issue can be solved by having swipe on/swipe off Leap card infrastructure at bus stops rather than single swipe on bus/talk to driver if short distance arrangement as at present.


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    #12
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Use them when visiting Zürich. No issues with them and actually quite like them as their dwells times are absolutely minimal.

    I've used them there too but the Swiss transport system is a model of efficiency and that's not down to them putting an articulated joint in the middle of the buses.


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    #13
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Bambi wrote: »
    I've used them there too but the Swiss transport system is a model of efficiency and that's not down to them putting an articulated joint in the middle of the buses.

    But it is somewhat efficient to run bendy buses as they are larger than normal single deckers and don't have as bad dwell times as double deckers.

    Cities in Europe tend to utilise bendy buses in a similar manner that here in Dublin we utilise the VT class buses. A continental single decker can carry more than a double decker due it having more standing room.


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    #14
    Skedaddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Skedaddle


    I don't understand why the Bendy Busses that Dublin Bus had for a while were so bouncy in the middle. There seemed to be something seriously wrong with them.

    I have travelled on similar bus layouts all over Europe, and also at Dublin Airport and there were no such issues.

    It looked to me like it was a problem specific to the Dublin bus fleet, as there's no way that those kinds of articulated busses can work absolutely everywhere else on the planet except Irish cities. I understand our sense of Irish exceptionalism, but this is really beyond ridiculous.


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    #15
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Skedaddle wrote: »
    I don't understand why the Bendy Busses that Dublin Bus had for a while were so bouncy in the middle. There seemed to be something seriously wrong with them.

    I have travelled on similar bus layouts all over Europe, and also at Dublin Airport and there were no such issues.

    It looked to me like it was a problem specific to the Dublin bus fleet, as there's no way that those kinds of articulated busses can work absolutely everywhere else on the planet except Irish cities. I understand our sense of Irish exceptionalism, but this is really beyond ridiculous.

    Even if you disregard the Dublin bus implementation, articulated buses don't add any benefits to the existing fleet and they bring their own set of fairly substantial problems so there's no point to them.

    The bouncing wasn't just the middle it was often the entire rear carriage, like there was some kind of suspension engagement system that was turned off.


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    #16
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The bendies were used on the number ten route that required a turn from Clare St into Lincon Place and from there onto Westland Road. The latter turn was not possible with oncoming traffic, and the bendy had to take up the whole road to manage it. It caused significant delays.

    I cannot see any advantage over the normal double decker, except that they might be able to fit under a low bridge - not that we have any of those served by buses.


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    #17
    Ashbx
    Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    Bendy buses take up twice the space on roads and carry same amount of passengers as double deckers so I think they should be got rid of.

    Especially with the luas going through the city centre, bendy buses on the luas tracks would be a disaster!


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    #18
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,166 ✭✭✭plodder


    The bendy buses used by the DAA at Dublin airport seem fine to me. They'd be configured differently for public transport though presumably.

    They might make sense if they get rid of cash fares and on board ticket issuing. You could board at the front and tag on, and get off at the rear, tagging off. I don't understand why they got rid of the two door double-deckers. If they still existed you could do the same with them.


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    #19
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    plodder wrote: »
    The bendy buses used by the DAA at Dublin airport seem fine to me. They'd be configured differently for public transport though presumably.

    They might make sense if they get rid of cash fares and on board ticket issuing. You could board at the front and tag on, and get off at the rear, tagging off. I don't understand why they got rid of the two door double-deckers. If they still existed you could do the same with them.

    All the new double deckers are two door, and most drivers now open the rear doors. The buses with only a front door are from 2004, those from 2012 and later all have rear doors.


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    #20
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,823 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    For heavy city traffic getting through junctions they are a bad idea, they either have to block the road up on other traffic or wait for an eternity to get enough space to progress through them.


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    #21
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,166 ✭✭✭plodder


    I think I'd agree, they'd never work in Dublin city centre. Maybe for orbital routes that don't go near city centre.


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    #22
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,106 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Number 4 turning at Griffith Avenue junction onto Ballymun road crashed twice and wrecked two other cars by clipping them never anyway for driver to monitor the full length of the bus neither inside or out.

    They would serve great as shuttle buses but anywhere with corners or roundabouts they're just plain dangerous to even think of using


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    #23
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    They would work absolutely fine along the N11 terminating at SSG. Likewise in from Lucan terminating around Heuston. 

    These routes have no sharp turns and are more or less all bus lane.

    You would have to adjust the lengths of the stops, have less of them, and use all of the doors of course. Something which is beyond the capacity of Dublin Bus to deliver.


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    #24
    Skedaddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Skedaddle


    They seem to work no problem all over France in cities with plenty of turns and roundabouts.


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    #25
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Bambi wrote: »
    I've used them there too but the Swiss transport system is a model of efficiency and that's not down to them putting an articulated joint in the middle of the buses.

    The multiple entry and exits points make a huge difference to dwell times though I’m not for a minute suggesting they’ll solve everything.


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    #26
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,793 ✭✭✭thomasj


    I do remember when they were using bendybuses on the 39s, this was before the James Joyce bridge was built and buses for blanchardstown were using that narrow bridge behind it.

    As a result these 39s had to go down to the bridge at heuston, and head back up.

    Shows that there wasn't enough thought put into planning when they were getting these buses.

    Hopefully there's a bit more forethought when they are planning the BRT


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    #27
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    I don't see any advantage really over double decker. Im guessing they hold similar amount of passengers, and double deckers take up much less road space. And look better (imo)


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    #28
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The multiple entry and exits points make a huge difference to dwell times though I’m not for a minute suggesting they’ll solve everything.

    The bendy buses had the same amount of access points as the other dublin buses..two.

    And when the middle doors were not used (which will happen with the best will in the world) it was a nightmare pushing your way up from the back to use the front doors.


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    #29
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,793 ✭✭✭thomasj


    wakka12 wrote:
    I don't see any advantage really over double decker. Im guessing they hold similar amount of passengers, and double deckers take up much less road space. And look better (imo)

    More buggies, wheelchair users etc

    And you can put more entry/exit points than on double deckers .


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    #30
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    I had read somewhere that double deckers are more common in former British colonies because rail bridges are generally built with a higher standard clearance.

    Is this true?


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    #31
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    thomasj wrote: »
    More buggies, wheelchair users etc

    And you can put more entry/exit points than on double deckers .

    Has no more access points than double deckers and was worse than a double decker for wheelie types, much narrower aisles and (from memory) the wheelchair/buggy space was a single unit behind the articulation point, so you had the wheel the thing down the bus and across the merry go round bendy bit


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