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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

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    #8972
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    That's because you're gone beyond a parody of yourself at times, still "but Obama'ing" about things like Libya that Trump also supported getting involved in (just as he supported getting involved in Iraq), while keeping your mouth shut and ramming your fingers in your ears about bombing Syria, increased drone strikes across the middle east, dropping the biggest non nuclear bomb in history in Afghanistan, saber rattling China (and getting played like a fiddle in the process), and of course regularly urging for war with North Korea. Yet you're here trying to tell us how all Trump wants for Christmas is "peace".

    Given all your complaining about about US involvement in the middle east, I couldn't help but notice for example that you have not made one single comment on Trump trying to force the UN to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital. You've also gone from having a mild obsession with drones a year back to the point of literally dreaming about them, to only three posts in over 10 months now - one of which was calling Obama 'the drone king' and another of which was about Clinton commenting on droning Assange, the most recent of which was over 8 months ago. It's as if something happened at the start of the year that caused you to do a 180 on how much you care about all of that.

    Basically, this is the kind of stuff that makes it very difficult to take your posts seriously at this point.

    I don’t read what you post as I know you personally do not like me so I won’t waste my time.
    It will help save you time too in replying.


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    #8973
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I don’t read what you post as I know you personally do not like me so I won’t waste my time.
    It will help save you time too in replying.

    Well then feel free to be left wondering why people don't take your posts seriously, because the answer is in the post you seem to have just quoted without reading. Don't take it so personally, and all the best now.


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    #8974
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Well then feel free to be left wondering why people don't take your posts seriously, because the answer is in the post you seem to have just quoted without reading. Don't take it so personally, and all the best now.

    Do you honestly think I would want to discuss things with a person who always looks down their nose at me?


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    #8975
    Jamiekelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Not great debating skills there, you could be referring to your own post which lacks substance.

    aaaaaand....
    RobertKK wrote: »
    I don’t read what you post as I know you personally do not like me so I won’t waste my time.
    It will help save you time too in replying.

    :rolleyes:

    Are you really surprised to find someone doesn't agree with you on a politics forum? It's not an echo chamber.


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    #8976
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    RobertKK wrote: »
    That was not the point.
    The point being why Russia got involved, but people want to ignore why and it has far more to do with Hillary than it has to with Trump in my opinion.

    Where was the Obama policy, the Bush policy and the Clinton policy going with North Korea?
    Under these various US regimes we watched North Korea become a nuclear power even if some are afraid to say it.
    You think Trump speeded up their progression, it was helped by the soft policies of previous regimes who did very little in reality to alter the trajectory of where NK was headed.

    I think Trump was likely the best of a very bad lot.
    Some key relations in the world are less tense than what they were a year ago.

    We still live with the messes of the previous regime, but a lot of people are in denial of the destructive policies of the Obama administration.
    They are like robots, programmed to be gullible and are unable to argue the good and bad side.
    Obama was a PR genius, it allowed him to get away with a lot with the media, the active support of destroying nations by supporting rebels and active military interventions, arming Saudi Arabia for war against Yemen - yes Trump in the case of SA is doing the same disgraceful act of arming them, as the people of Yemen die, starve and suffer illnesses that shouldn’t exist there.
    Europe has the migrant crisis which the Obama administration left us as their main legacy, they continued the Bush administration’s regime change policy and it was a very neocon foreign policy by Obama.
    Trump so far has not reached the level of destruction that Obama brought.
    I will be ready to criticise when he does but will look on in disbelief as people here chose to ignore how bad the Obama presidency really was. The body count in terms of dead people from the Obama administration and the foreign policy they supported is in the hundreds of thousands, supported the destruction of Libya, Syria, Egypt with sectarian extremists before the coup, the war against Yemen.
    People are so blind, and Dublin City Council are the epitome of this by awarding the Obamas the freedom of our capital city.
    The same blindness is very evident on the politics section too.
    But Trump...it is trendy to say he is no good, but let me give my love eyes to Obama...
    Maybe they are all simply useless...


    So hold on, what you are saying is that Russia got involved in the US elections because they didn't want HC to win, and therefore Trump has done a wonderful job by allowing them to do it?

    There is not one POTUS that is anything other than a destroyer of nations, in effect the US has become more and more dependent on the military as its status as the cutting edge of business continues to decline. Would HC have stopped that, no, but Trump has shown no desire to stop it either.

    He has actively increased tensions in the ME with the non-sensical move of the embassy, with nothing in return for the US.
    He was completely and totally embarrased by the UN recent vote. To have the US reduced to crying that the UN keeps taking its money but won't simply agree with it. At least Bush made up some lies to cover the WMD, Trump just threw a tantrum.
    NK is laughing at Trump. Laughing. Not just ignoring him but actively doing what he tells them not to. Now I happen to agree with Trumps stance on NK, but his posturing is achieving nothing.
    That China and Russia agree has nothing to do with respect for Trump. They do not want a nuclear armed madman on their borders. If Obama was still there they would still have the same position.


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    #8977
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think Trump was likely the best of a very bad lot.

    And you have the absolutely gall to declare that other people are gullible?


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    #8978
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    B0jangles wrote: »
    And you have the absolutely gall to declare that other people are gullible?

    I think all the candidates were terrible. Just some were worse...with a record to prove it.


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    #8979
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Jamiekelly wrote: »
    aaaaaand....



    :rolleyes:

    Are you really surprised to find someone doesn't agree with you on a politics forum? It's not an echo chamber.

    Why are you getting involved, do you think Billy needs someone to hold his hand?
    Billy has a history of looking down on me, he doesn’t take people not supporting his opinions very well.
    He activitelt supported the war monger for president and I can at least say Trump did some good things as well as bad things.
    Most here would have one believe it was only bad.


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    #8980
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think all the candidates were terrible. Just some were worse...

    The only way to support your argument that things would be worse if another candidate had won is if you balance all the disastrous and destructive things that the Trump administration has done and is attemping to do against all the terrible things you imagine would have happened if any other candidates, including Clinton had won.

    It's surprisingly easy to downplay Trump's disastrous Presidency when you can simply retreat to comforting fantasies about how much worse Clinton's would have been.

    Totally nonsensical of course, but very easy.


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    #8981
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Why are you getting involved, do you think Billy needs someone to hold his hand?
    Billy has a history of looking down on me, he doesn’t take people not supporting his opinions very well.
    He activitelt supported the war monger for president and I can at least say Trump did some good things as well as bad things.
    Most here would have one believe it was only bad.

    This is a discussion forum, people can join in. Most here see Trump for what he is. That is not a fallacy, he is being judged on his words, and his behaviour.

    You call Hillary a warmonger. More than George Bush and his neo-con cabinet which invaded Iraq because of Bin Laden :confused:
    What do you think of Trumps behaviour with North Korea and his open threats there?
    What do you think of him moving the embassy to Jerusalem?
    What good things do you think Trump has done?


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    #8982
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Do you honestly think I would want to discuss things with a person who always looks down their nose at me?
    Not looking down my nose at anything Robert, that's the second attempt to play the victim now. And not even trying to open a discussion with you either. Just pointing out that the reason people often don't take your posts very seriously, like the "swing and a miss" comment.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    He activitelt supported the war monger for president.
    Robert, I was never a Trump supporter thank you very much.


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    #8983
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    So hold on, what you are saying is that Russia got involved in the US elections because they didn't want HC to win, and therefore Trump has done a wonderful job by allowing them to do it?

    There is not one POTUS that is anything other than a destroyer of nations, in effect the US has become more and more dependent on the military as its status as the cutting edge of business continues to decline. Would HC have stopped that, no, but Trump has shown no desire to stop it either.

    He has actively increased tensions in the ME with the non-sensical move of the embassy, with nothing in return for the US.
    He was completely and totally embarrased by the UN recent vote. To have the US reduced to crying that the UN keeps taking its money but won't simply agree with it. At least Bush made up some lies to cover the WMD, Trump just threw a tantrum.
    NK is laughing at Trump. Laughing. Not just ignoring him but actively doing what he tells them not to. Now I happen to agree with Trumps stance on NK, but his posturing is achieving nothing.
    That China and Russia agree has nothing to do with respect for Trump. They do not want a nuclear armed madman on their borders. If Obama was still there they would still have the same position.


    I didn’t say that, it is amazing that is the conclusion you came to.
    I think the Russians moved against a person who had a history of being a neocon hawk and supporting every war going and being active in regime change: Iraq, Libya, Honduras and the failed attempt in Syria. Her very anti-Russian stance. I believe the Russians saw her as dangerous and moved against the threat.
    It doesn’t make Trump better or worse as I don’t believe he is the reason the Russians likely interfered. I think her warmongering chickens came home to roost if the Russians did interfere as most believe they did.
    Maybe that did lead to the Russians getting involved with the people in the Trump campaign like Manafort and maybe Flynn and maybe others. The Russians are known for taking out people considered dangerous, even speculated they murdered Stalin...

    I don’t support the embassy change at this point, but it is not like peace talks were happening or if the Tel Aviv policy was actually working.
    It basically changed nothing, the Knesset is in Jerusalem, it is the capital and has been agreed in the US since the Clinton administration.
    Guatemala followed suit and other nations are expected to as well.
    It has changed nothing really, where have the people complaining being as there had been no effort to bring about peace from either side.
    No one could ever have called the US an honest broker given their arming and strong financial support to Israel.

    China and Russia sat by as NK became a nuclear power. Obama was getting nowhere, but let’s see if Trump can. Maybe his threats are making China and Russia more proactive than previously.


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    #8984
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Not looking down my nose at anything Robert, that's the second attempt to play the victim now. And not even trying to open a discussion with you either. Just pointing out that the reason people often don't take your posts very seriously, like the "swing and a miss" comment.


    Robert, I was never a Trump supporter thank you very much.


    I am not playing the victim, I am not a victim, just saying what is reality.

    When was Trump in power?
    You supported the woman who actively supported every war going and was involved in a coup in Honduras which led to a lot of murder.


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    #8985
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Tell me how wrote: »
    This is a discussion forum, people can join in. Most here see Trump for what he is. That is not a fallacy, he is being judged on his words, and his behaviour.

    You call Hillary a warmonger. More than George Bush and his neo-con cabinet which invaded Iraq because of Bin Laden :confused:
    What do you think of Trumps behaviour with North Korea and his open threats there?
    What do you think of him moving the embassy to Jerusalem?
    What good things do you think Trump has done?

    Hillary actively supported the invasion of Iraq, voted for it and even wrote a piece for the Irish Mail on Sunday in how the Irish should support the US decision.
    But people prefer to forget these things.


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    #8986
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think all the candidates were terrible. Just some were worse...with a record to prove it.

    Trump is literally escalating any international scenario that he gets involved in...


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    #8987
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am not playing the victim, I am not a victim, just saying what is reality.

    When was Trump in power?

    You supported the woman who actively supported every war going and was involved in a coup in Honduras which led to a lot of murder.
    When you ram your fingers in your ears about Trump supporting Libya and Iraq, that does not mean that the rest of us cannot hear anything. He's been a warmonger by your standards since long before he ever declared running for president in 2015.

    No opinion on Jerusalem? North Korea? China? Drone strikes? Or will you just continue to try and do all you can to ignore them too... Trump told a kid he wants peace for Christmas after all. And when says it, baby you know it's true!


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    #8988
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Trump is literally escalating any international scenario that he gets involved in...

    You mean the Obama administration didn’t with Syria, Libya, Yemen, Honduras, Russia, China etc.
    The Obama administration gave us the migrant crisis in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.
    The rise of ISIS and increased terrorism.


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    #8989
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    Why are we talking about Hilary Clinton and Obama???

    It matters not a jot why the Russians decided to interfere. What matters is whether or not the Trump campaign conspired or attempted to conspire with them.

    If it turns out they did, then the "but they only interfered because of Hilary" is a pretty piss poor defense. Robert, you do understand this is Treason we're talking about... yes?


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    #8990
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    When you ram your fingers in your ears about Trump supporting Libya and Iraq, that does not mean that the rest of us cannot hear anything. He's been a warmonger by your standards since long before he ever declared running for president in 2015.

    No opinion on Jerusalem? North Korea? China? Drone strikes? Or will you just continue to try and do all you can to ignore them too... Trump told a kid he wants peace for Christmas after all. And when says it, baby you know it's true!

    You can twist what I posted to something I didn’t post if you want.
    But it doesn’t make it the truth.


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    #8991
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Btw Billy, which is stronger?
    Words or actions?
    You supported the person who did the actions when an actual politician, but criticise the person who used words instead when they were a reality TV star...
    But you think words speak louder than actions...


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    #8992
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You can twist what I posted to something I didn’t post if you want.
    But it doesn’t make it the truth.
    Again you're continuing to go out of your way to avoid passing any comment on Jerusalem, North Korea, China, drone strikes, bombing Syrian airports, landing the biggest non nuclear bomb in world history on Afghanistan, and on and on.

    As someone with such a huge interest in (or rather against) drone strikes and meddling in the middle east, surely you've got an opinion on this Robert? I mean you used to love posting about drone strikes so much only a year ago... what changed?
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Btw Billy, which is stronger?
    Words or actions?
    You supported the person who did the actions when an actual politician, but criticise the person who used words instead when they were a reality TV star...
    But you think words speak louder than actions...
    Yes, actions. Ok now we're getting somewhere! This is what has been repeatedly put to you... actions, like rapidly increasing drone strikes in the middle east and trying to force the UN into declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel?

    I'll repeat (feel free to continue to ignore)... as someone with such a huge interest in (or rather against) drone strikes and meddling in the middle east, surely you've got an opinion on this Robert? I mean you used to love posting about drone strikes so much only a year ago... what changed?


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    #8993
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Pelvis wrote: »
    Why are we talking about Hilary Clinton and Obama???

    It matters not a jot why the Russians decided to interfere. What matters is whether or not the Trump campaign conspired or attempted to conspire with them.

    If it turns out they did, then the "but they only interfered because of Hilary" is a pretty piss poor defense. Robert, you do understand this is Treason we're talking about... yes?

    Surely it is obvious. Do you want to try defending Trump? It is an impossible task and thus all actual Trump discussions must in fact focus on other people. Note that even the main defense against the Mueller probe has little to do with Trump and whether or not he would do such a thing. The main defense from the right has been to attack Mueller. It is a tactic that is being repeatedly employed. Attack, attack, attack because if people look at where the right is at the moment it is toast.


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    #8994
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Again you're continuing to go out of your way to avoid passing any comment on Jerusalem, North Korea, China, drone strikes, bombing Syrian airports, landing the biggest non nuclear bomb in world history on Afghanistan, and on and on.

    As someone with such a huge interest in (or rather against) drone strikes and meddling in the middle east, surely you've got an opinion on this Robert? I mean you used to love posting about drone strikes so much only a year ago... what changed?


    Yes, actions. Ok now we're getting somewhere! This is what has been repeatedly put to you... actions, like rapidly increasing drone strikes in the middle east and trying to force the UN into declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel?

    I'll repeat (feel free to continue to ignore)... as someone with such a huge interest in (or rather against) drone strikes and meddling in the middle east, surely you've got an opinion on this Robert? I mean you used to love posting about drone strikes so much only a year ago... what changed?

    This is why I don't bother with you for the most part.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105664686&postcount=8983
    Contains Jerusalem, North Korea, I don't know what you want, blood?

    When it came to drones, Obama normalised that in that in military use. What figures have we to use that Trump is worse or better when it comes to drone dtrikes, I will have no problem criticising.
    The thing is Billy, I can see the good and bad side to whatever side, you only post good about those you like and bad about those you don't.
    Trump was totally wrong on Roy Moore, Iran deal, climate change deal, Jerusalem as it was unnecessary, the countries that people are banned from traveling from to the US, wrong in selling more weapons to Saudi Arabia.
    Trump was right in reducing corporation taxes, his approach to Russia and China, his approach to Syria and ISIS were the right ones.

    Anyway tell me the drone figures from 2017 since I am suppose to comment on them, what are that?
    As I said I have no problem in criticisng their overuse.
    Yes you supported actions of a warmonger for president, and made out words were worse...


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    #8995
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Surely it is obvious. Do you want to try defending Trump? It is an impossible task and thus all actual Trump discussions must in fact focus on other people. Note that even the main defense against the Mueller probe has little to do with Trump and whether or not he would do such a thing. The main defense from the right has been to attack Mueller. It is a tactic that is being repeatedly employed. Attack, attack, attack because if people look at where the right is at the moment it is toast.

    It is not about defending, some people only post negative as if there was nothing positive at all.
    If a little balance is added, it has to be wrong.


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    #8996
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is not about defending, some people only post negative as if there was nothing positive at all.
    If a little balance is added, it has to be wrong.

    But what has been positive? I would really struggle to name anything that Trump has achieved that either had nothing much to do with him (Stock Exchange, jobs numbers) or which could not have been done a different way to benefit far more people (the tax plan, healthcare).

    And even if/when he does achieve anything, it appears that it comes a a very big price. I think the attacks on the FBI & CIA are very disturbing (not to say they don't merit review and restructure, but you don't need to tear them down publicly to do that). The continue attack on the press, sorry any news story that doesn't paint him in a favourable light. It has been dressed up as a crusade against fake news, when it is nothing of the sort. Trump is very happy with fake news, once it is the right type. As SHS stated, it doesn't matter if its true or not, once the message gets out.

    As I said, I agree with his position on NK. Unfortunately I think something does need to be done. But he appears totally unable to do it. How is the situation any better now than when he took over? All that has happened is that NK has continued to develop its missiles, and Trump has been shown to be powerless.

    In terms of Russia and China he has been led a merry dance by both. Neither of them care what Trump says or does. The only care they have is that Trump is actively weakening the US from within.

    Trump is trying to load the judiciary with conservative judges, the effect of which will last many years. Quite a few of them have little or no experience. He is putting his own ideology ahead of the good of the nation.

    He has helped stir up the deep divisions in the US. Its not his fault they exist, but he has taken a petrol can to the flames.

    I believe that the US will pay a very heavy price for them dalliance with Trump, and what seemed like a game will turn out to be a very costly and long impactful mistake.


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    #8997
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    This is why I don't bother with you for the most part.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105664686&postcount=8983
    Contains Jerusalem, North Korea, I don't know what you want, blood?
    Cheers as I had missed that - but it does not say a single thing about North Korea.

    Some corrections though - the Russians did not change their stance on Clinton due to being worried about some inevitable war. If you want to try to claim that, you'd need to show how she did a 180 or made huge changes as a politicians from about 2009-2012 as in 2009 they were celebrating what proved to be a failed 'reset' of relations with her. But you're claiming she was always a war monger, certainly at the very least back to 2002, so that's not it. The reason the Russians changed their stance and became so heavily involved was because of sanctions brought about from the Magnitsky Act, pure and simple. That is what changed in that time frame, not Clinton's foreign policy outlook.

    As for Israel - no, Jerusalem is not the capital. They try to claim it is, but it is not internationally recognised. If as you put it "[Jerusalem] is the capital and has been agreed in the US since the Clinton administration" then there would be no need for a UN vote on it. And if the change were not a big one that could cause catastrophic issues in the region, then then you wouldn't have seen as good as every other member of the UN vote against it. Don't try using 'the US and Israel's connection' as an excuse by the way - that relationship has been there for decades, yet it took an idiot of, well, Trumpian proportions to try and force the rest of the world into accepting Jerusalem as the capital.

    "Guatemala followed suit and other nations are expected to as well" - what are you talking about here? Guatemala have no clout, and you won't be seeing world leaders following behind just because 'Guatemala did it too'. If others were going to follow, Trump would have been hosting his party for leaders of places other than Nauru, Micronesia and Togo. It's about as likely to pass through the UN as an Obamacare repeal is likely to get over 70 votes in the Senate.
    When it came to drones, Obama normalised that in that in military use. What figures have we to use that Trump is worse or better when it comes to drone dtrikes, I will have no problem criticising.
    Nope, that was Bush. then it ramped up under Obama as the technology became even more readily available, and is continuing to do so under Trump. Yet not a peep from you on Trump's usage of drones outpacing Obama's by far despite how strongly you felt about it only 12 months ago.
    The thing is Billy, I can see the good and bad side to whatever side, you only post good about those you like and bad about those you don't.
    Wrong there, but it certainly explains why you seem to have the impression I'm a big supporter of Hillary Clinton.
    Trump was totally wrong on Roy Moore, Iran deal, climate change deal, Jerusalem as it was unnecessary, the countries that people are banned from traveling from to the US, wrong in selling more weapons to Saudi Arabia.
    Trump was right in reducing corporation taxes, his approach to Russia and China, his approach to Syria and ISIS were the right ones.
    Here's the problem, and it alludes to the irony in your statement above - if Obama had done exactly what Trump did with China, you'd be unhappy with it. Warmongering and all of that.
    Anyway tell me the drone figures from 2017 since I am suppose to comment on them, what are that?
    As I said I have no problem in criticising their overuse.
    As of late September, he was going at over 4 times the pace Obama had been - http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/loosen-obama-limits-drone-strikes-170922141205178.html

    Also as of September, total bombs dropped surpassed all of 2016 - http://www.newsweek.com/trump-era-record-number-bombs-dropped-middle-east-667505

    And as for targetting, from Jan-Aug this year they had caused more deaths than in the three years combined - http://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-already-killed-more-civilians-obama-us-fight-against-isis-653564 . Don't forget though - that is exactly what Trump said he would do during the campaign while his supporters were busy jumping up and down about isolationism, world peace, etc etc.

    You were extremely interested in drone strikes, impact, civilian casualties, total numbers etc right up until about January... I thought you might have been aware, but you seem to have completely stopped tracking any news on them right around that point in time.


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    #8998
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    But what has been positive? I would really struggle to name anything that Trump has achieved that either had nothing much to do with him (Stock Exchange, jobs numbers) or which could not have been done a different way to benefit far more people (the tax plan, healthcare).

    And even if/when he does achieve anything, it appears that it comes a a very big price. I think the attacks on the FBI & CIA are very disturbing (not to say they don't merit review and restructure, but you don't need to tear them down publicly to do that). The continue attack on the press, sorry any news story that doesn't paint him in a favourable light. It has been dressed up as a crusade against fake news, when it is nothing of the sort. Trump is very happy with fake news, once it is the right type. As SHS stated, it doesn't matter if its true or not, once the message gets out.

    As I said, I agree with his position on NK. Unfortunately I think something does need to be done. But he appears totally unable to do it. How is the situation any better now than when he took over? All that has happened is that NK has continued to develop its missiles, and Trump has been shown to be powerless.

    In terms of Russia and China he has been led a merry dance by both. Neither of them care what Trump says or does. The only care they have is that Trump is actively weakening the US from within.

    Trump is trying to load the judiciary with conservative judges, the effect of which will last many years. Quite a few of them have little or no experience. He is putting his own ideology ahead of the good of the nation.

    He has helped stir up the deep divisions in the US. Its not his fault they exist, but he has taken a petrol can to the flames.

    I believe that the US will pay a very heavy price for them dalliance with Trump, and what seemed like a game will turn out to be a very costly and long impactful mistake.

    I think it would be hypocritical of Irish people to say that reducing corporation tax was a negative thing. It should bring benefits to the US.

    Every president puts people in line with their own ideology on the supreme court. Trump is not re-writing the script book.

    Europe paid a heavy price for it's dalliance with Obama, maybe even enough that it helped make Brexit a reality.


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    #8999
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,789 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    RobertKK wrote: »
    3 years for Trump not to make such a mess of the world that Obama did with Libya, which even Obama admits was a massive mistake:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36013703
    Yet he claims it was the right thing, it wasn't...

    Trump when speaking to children on the phone along with Melania before Christmas was asking children what was Santa bringing them etc, then one child asked Trump what he wanted, and he said he wanted peace.

    The Obama presidency was very destructive with the US and other western nations supporting unknown people in the Arab spring, got rid of Gaddafi and gave the country over to terrorists, the irony being Gaddafi said he was goign to take back Benghazi from terrorists, Hillary and co convinced Obama to intervene, the biggest irony ever is getting rid of Gaddafi and then having terrorists in Benghazi killing those embassy staff. Should never have been an intervention in the first place.
    Then supporting God knows who against Assad...

    Trump has not made things worse in Syria, the alternative to Trump was still talking about her failed regime change policy as if it worked.

    One could argue the failed policies of Bush and Obama combined with the support of successive government in the UK and France in some cases, led to Brexit happening by making things far worse in North Africa and the Middle East and creating a migrant crisis the world hadn't seen for many decades.
    The rise of terrorism in western Europe and the images of people flooding into Europe. Merkel seeing it as an opportunity since the Germans are not producing enough children, saying they were all welcome.

    One could also argue that on an international stage, that Trump has done less harm so far than Obama did during his presidency.
    Plenty of time to be as destructive as Obama's presidency...

    Hold on Rob. Will you please stop coming in here selling this nonsense. I've seen you at it in other forums too. It's the very definition of fake news.

    Under trump drone attack and bombing raids have increased since last year. In fact in Afghanistan there is over 3000 bombing missions to 1000 previously.

    Trump is as destructive if not far more than anyone before him.

    I despise when people peddle absolute lies especially when trying to make comparisons to his predecessors.


    So run along and get your sources correct first.


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    #9000
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You mean the Obama administration didn’t with Syria, Libya, Yemen, Honduras, Russia, China etc.
    The Obama administration gave us the migrant crisis in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.
    The rise of ISIS and increased terrorism.

    Problems in the middle east didn't start with Obama or even bush. American intrusion started well back in the seventies. Blaming isis on Obama. That's an uneducated claim.


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    #9001
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think it would be hypocritical of Irish people to say that reducing corporation tax was a negative thing. It should bring benefits to the US.

    We are completely different nations, with completely different markets and advantages. The US is the biggest market in the world. It has resources, workforce, education etc etc. Having a large presence in the US market practically sells your product in the rest of the world. We need to do something to differentiate ourselves due to the lack of any advantages, US does not have the same issue.

    I am not against the lowering of the CT rate, but to give such a dramatic reduction, whilst at the same time giving such low amounts to the lower/middle classes strikes me as the wrong way around.

    Corporate America is doing just fine (doesn't Trump keep telling us about all the jobs and stock market growth) so why the need for a taxpayer funded handout?
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Every president puts people in line with their own ideology on the supreme court. Trump is not re-writing the script book.

    Of course but they would have done some within some accepted norms, like being qualified. Have you looked at the diversity of Obamas pick as opposed to Trumps?
    So far, 91 percent of Trump's nominees are white, and 81 percent are male, an Associated Press analysis has found. Three of every four are white men, with few African-Americans and Hispanics in the mix. The last president to nominate a similarly homogenous group was George H.W. Bush.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-blacks-judges-20171113-story.html
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Europe paid a heavy price for it's dalliance with Obama, maybe even enough that it helped make Brexit a reality.

    Really, you think UK only started hating EU when Obama was elected? Obama steaded a sinking world economy, a problem that the EU seemed totally unable to solve.

    And wasn't it Trump that openly wanted Brexit, best buds with Farrange?


This discussion has been closed.
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