Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

Kidchameleon · 18-12-2017 07:51PM

At least they had a chance unlike the baby who was slaughtered by their scumbag mother in Crumlin recently

Bambi985 · 18-12-2017 08:02PM

Speechless after reading about the inquest. Absolutely speechless. How can anyone have such abject horror in them? It's not human on any level.

I really feel for those gardai that were the first on the scene. That's not something they will ever forget or get over.

McCrack · 18-12-2017 08:18PM

Psychosis usually drives people to these type of acts

Unless medically trained and in particular in the area of psychiatry people are naturally unable to understand the behaviour

ANXIOUS · 18-12-2017 08:22PM

It appears to me based in the comment to the mother saying don't be worried if the wife is a bit late that he had this planned and it wasn't just a flipped switch.

kona · 18-12-2017 08:59PM

ANXIOUS wrote: »

It appears to me based in the comment to the mother saying don't be worried if the wife is a bit late that he had this planned and it wasn't just a flipped switch.

Was it not clodagh that said this to the mother?

yerwanthere123 · 18-12-2017 09:21PM

The details of the inquest from today are a very tough read. I'd hoped that in the case of the children that perhaps they were killed in their sleep and possibly they knew nothing, but not to be.

Really hope the families involved will eventually find a way to move on.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-12-2017 09:23PM

McCrack wrote:

Psychosis usually drives people to these type of acts.

Unless medically trained and in particular in the area of psychiatry people are naturally unable to understand the behaviour

This is it. Unfortunately, this type of thing does happen and the fact that there was planning involved doesn't mean it wasn't a psychotic break. I have no desire to defend the man, i don't most people understand what happened or why he did it. The experts who deal with criminals and the criminally insane don't have enough evidence to decide what happened, do the lay person is just speculating about motives etc.

I think most people wouldn't want to know what actually happens in these circumstances so they decide what they believe and there isn't though evidence to dispute it either way.

I'd prefer to wait and hear what the experts actually conclude.

helimachoptor · 18-12-2017 09:38PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The coroner thinks he killed his wife and eldest son first because they might have been able to fight back.

It doesn't bear thinking about the terror they felt in those final moments.

and the mother knowing if she was getting killed, likely that her kids were either dead or shortly would be

18-12-2017 09:41PM

This story is horrific. The poor kids and wife

18-12-2017 09:43PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is it. Unfortunately, this type of thing does happen and the fact that there was planning involved doesn't mean it wasn't a psychotic break. I have no desire to defend the man, i don't most people understand what happened or why he did it. The experts who deal with criminals and the criminally insane don't have enough evidence to decide what happened, do the lay person is just speculating about motives etc.

I think most people wouldn't want to know what actually happens in these circumstances so they decide what they believe and there isn't though evidence to dispute it either way.

I'd prefer to wait and hear what the experts actually conclude.

I'd be more inclined to assume it was a break if it hadn't been established that he was a control freak to begin with. Sometimes losing control of a victim or of their own reputation is enough to spur an evil person into action.

It was so calculated and coldly executed that it appears to be an exercise in absolute control, rather than a loss of all control.

JupiterKid · 18-12-2017 09:59PM

The manner in which Hawe slaughtered his family suggests to me a well planned, cool, calculated act. The murders may have been sparked off by a fight or he just snapped. Hardly the mark of someone going through a psychotic episode who is usually delusional, incoherent and looses touch with reality.

Hawe was a very evil individual.

barneygumble99 · 18-12-2017 10:20PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is it. Unfortunately, this type of thing does happen and the fact that there was planning involved doesn't mean it wasn't a psychotic break. I have no desire to defend the man, i don't most people understand what happened or why he did it. The experts who deal with criminals and the criminally insane don't have enough evidence to decide what happened, do the lay person is just speculating about motives etc.

I think most people wouldn't want to know what actually happens in these circumstances so they decide what they believe and there isn't though evidence to dispute it either way.

I'd prefer to wait and hear what the experts actually conclude.

This is about the most sensible thing that’s been written in the whole thread.

keith_sixteen · 18-12-2017 10:26PM

barneygumble99 wrote: »

[/B]

This is about the most sensible thing that’s been written in the whole thread.

LOL, no it is not.

ANXIOUS · 18-12-2017 10:37PM

Article appears to have been removed from the independent.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-12-2017 10:51PM

Candie wrote:

I'd be more inclined to assume it was a break if it hadn't been established that he was a control freak to begin with. Sometimes losing control of a victim or of their own reputation is enough to spur an evil person into action.

It was so calculated and coldly executed that it appears to be an exercise in absolute control, rather than a loss of all control.

Being controlling doesn't rule out a psychotic break. Nor does him being controlling to the point of evil mean it couldn't have been a psychotic break.

JupiterKid wrote:

The manner in which Hawe slaughtered his family suggests to me a well planned, cool, calculated act. The murders may have been sparked off by a fight or he just snapped. Hardly the mark of someone going through a psychotic episode who is usually delusional, incoherent and looses touch with reality.

Ah, you see this is where these things get complicated and most people's solution is to simply ignore the complexity.

A psychotic break can involve all those elements you mentioned, but doesn't mean he couldn't have done it unless he was in the full of is health.

I just think the reality is that we don't know why he did it. Pretending we do know doesn't solve anything, it just closes is off from finding out the truth if it's ever established

18-12-2017 10:53PM

I'd imagine there's more to come regarding motive.

You don't just snap and murder your whole family.

Dev84 · 18-12-2017 11:02PM

Hawe will burn in hell.

The defensive wounds on the 6 year old were horific.

Say no more.

volchitsa · 18-12-2017 11:02PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Being controlling doesn't rule out a psychotic break. Nor does him being controlling to the point of evil mean it couldn't have been a psychotic break.

Ah, you see this is where these things get complicated and most people's solution is to simply ignore the complexity.

A psychotic break can involve all those elements you mentioned, but doesn't mean he couldn't have done it unless he was in the full of is health.

I just think the reality is that we don't know why he did it. Pretending we do know doesn't solve anything, it just closes is off from finding out the truth if it's ever established

You're not seriously suggesting someone suffering a psychotic break who's just murdered their wife and children in the most brutal way is then going to calmly sit down and transfer all their money into his personal account, so that his family inherited and not hers.

That's not even plausible.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-12-2017 11:05PM

RoboKlopp wrote:

I'd imagine there's more to come regarding motive. You don't just snap and murder your whole family.

You and I don't, but some people do. So it's very hard for us to understand what happened. Familial murder suicide is a known phenomenon.

If his psychological profile was fully understood, most people wouldn't be able to understand it without being a professional psychologist anyway.

There's no point trying to understand his mindset, using your own mindset. The layperson can only speculate wildly.

18-12-2017 11:07PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You and I don't, but some people do. So it's very hard for us to understand what happened. Familial murder suicide is a known phenomenon.

If his psychological profile was fully understood, most people wouldn't be able to understand it without being a professional psychologist anyway.

There's no point trying to understand his mindset, using your own mindset. The layperson can only speculate wildly.

True, but there's probably experts in this case that might have a clue? Hopefully anyway.

Gael23 · 18-12-2017 11:13PM

If theres anything good that can come out of this,I hope its a greater understanding of mental illness. I don't believe for one second that any sane human could be capable of such evil.
Something else I find unusual here is where Clodagh Hawes mother says she knew what had happened. That to me suggests she knew there were issues going on in the house.

BowSideChamp · 18-12-2017 11:17PM

Anyone know what Alan Hawe's impending "fall from grace" was? It was reported that something was gonna come out about him and that is why he murdered his family.

Also, has the contents of his suicide letter been read out yet at the inquest?

biZrb · 18-12-2017 11:20PM

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Anyone know what Alan Hawe's impending "fall from grace" was? It was reported that something was gonna come out about him and that is why he murdered his family.

Its been reported Alan had a meeting at the school that he was dreading that day, has there been any more on this? (Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread). Could this have been the trigger? Maybe he was afraid something was going to happen after that meeting and he would suffer a fall from grace?

Charmeleon · 18-12-2017 11:20PM

volchitsa wrote: »

You're not seriously suggesting someone suffering a psychotic break who's just murdered their wife and children in the most brutal way is then going to calmly sit down and transfer all their money into his personal account, so that his family inherited and not hers.

That's not even plausible.

Still though, it was mentioned before that the pilot of the Germanwings plane who flew it into the side of a mountain was referred by a doctor to a psychiatric hospital as he was experiencing a psychotic episode in the weeks before he killed 150 people. The captain and crew of the plane who flew with him had absolutely no idea he was having severe mental difficulties and it seems he did a dry run on the outward leg of the journey.

It’s not often that a mass murderer leaves a recent, well documented descent into depression and psychosis behind them so I think it is important to realise that no one that worked with him had any idea of how sick his mental state actually was.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-12-2017 11:28PM

volchitsa wrote:

You're not seriously suggesting someone suffering a psychotic break who's just murdered their wife and children in the most brutal way is then going to calmly sit down and transfer all their money into his personal account, so that his family inherited and not hers.That's not even plausible.

Isn't it plausible?

There's speculation that he just did it to save his reputation or something along those lines, then why do something that would completely destroy his reputation? The money is also a factor which would harm his posthumous reputation.

You have to be willing to accept a number of contradictions running in parallel to put the evidence together. That's why I really think it's pointless to even speculate until the experts give their view using the current best understanding

jackboy · 18-12-2017 11:30PM

Gael23 wrote: »

I don't believe for one second that any sane human could be capable of such evil.

Unfortunately, a history of countless millions indicates that you are wrong. What Hawe did is usually rare, except under certain conditions in society where it becomes very common.

....... · 18-12-2017 11:43PM

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Mrs OBumble · 18-12-2017 11:52PM

Gael23 wrote: »

If theres anything good that can come out of this,I hope its a greater understanding of mental illness. I don't believe for one second that any sane human could be capable of such evil.
Something else I find unusual here is where Clodagh Hawes mother says she knew what had happened. That to me suggests she knew there were issues going on in the house.

There's nothing unusual in that: family and whatever friends are left of abused women usually have a fair idea that there's something very wrong, but aren't able to do anything about it unless the victim decides that she wants and needs to get out.

And most domestic abusers are not insane. I've not seen anything to suggest that this one was.

brooke 2 · 19-12-2017 02:51AM

Gael23 wrote: »

If theres anything good that can come out of this,I hope its a greater understanding of mental illness. I don't believe for one second that any sane human could be capable of such evil.
Something else I find unusual here is where Clodagh Hawes mother says she knew what had happened. That to me suggests she knew there were issues going on in the house.

When she arrived at the house and saw the two cars outside and the curtains still drawn, I believe she originally thought the family might have died from carbon monoxide poisoning. But when she went around to the back door and saw the bloodstained note in Alan Hawe's writing, instructing her not to enter, she realised he may have killed his family. Nothing which happened the night before, when the whole family visited her in her house, led her to believe that anything was wrong.
When Alan Hawe remarked that he was not looking forward to returning to school the following day, Mrs. Coll had actually felt sorry for him!

brooke 2 · 19-12-2017 02:58AM

....... wrote: »

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Wasn't the note bloodstained? That might have roused her suspicions, imo.

Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

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