Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stevek101 · 10-11-2017 01:19PM

brokenarms wrote: »

If there is expansion happening. Where are they going to park them? All garages are stuffed full as far as have heard.

Wasn't DB fleet just over 1,200 at its peak. Still 200 more to go to reach that.

bk · 10-11-2017 01:38PM

I think we will have to shift from talking about purely the Dublin Bus fleet and start talking about the "Dublin City Bus Fleet" which will contain buses from both the DB Fleet and the GA Fleet.

As KD345 and devnull point out, there has been increases in the DB fleet, though I suspect over the next few years the DB fleet will remain relatively static and most of the growth in the "Dublin City Bus Fleet" will be in the GA fleet.

Of course from a passenger perspective, they won't care if the bus is coming from DB or GA, extra buses in the overall "Dublin City Bus Fleet" is all they will care about and it is good news for them. Similar to in London.

Having said that, there does seem to be two bits of good news for DB:

1) DB continues to get new buses, allowing them to replace old buses and keep the fleet young, rather then the alternative of all new buses just going to GA and DB's fleet getting older.

2) GA taking over the quieter routes, will mean that DB can reallocate the freed up buses to their remaining busier core routes. This will quite possibly lead to a continued growth in the number of passengers carried by DB, while the fleet remains static, due to better utilisation of buses on bust routes. That could be quiet good news for DB, making their revenue by bus and driver look better.

john boye · 10-11-2017 06:55PM

Stevek101 wrote: »

Wasn't DB fleet just over 1,200 at its peak. Still 200 more to go to reach that.

It was something like that but it's worth remembering that the fleet and the company as a whole was horribly bloated at the time. Merely bringing the fleet up those numbers again is not the answer alone.

Stephen15 · 10-11-2017 07:12PM

L1011 wrote: »

In DB use, they're for one specific route, the 44B which is extremely quiet.

What the rest of the order will be used for looks to be light orbital services.

I do sometimes wonder about that 44b route does it get any use at all for DB to go and buy 2 buses for a service that only runs a few times a day to what is effectively a tiny rural area. If you don't have a car I don't see why you'd buy a house in Glencullen tbh. Also would this service not be better fulfilled by a Local Link service rather than a CIE service.

dfx- · 10-11-2017 07:14PM

brokenarms wrote: »

If there is expansion happening. Where are they going to park them? All garages are stuffed full as far as have heard.

Donnybrook and Harristown have over 200 of the 400+ GT and SGs between them, so probably there.

Can't see much room in Conyngham Road, Ringsend and especially Summerhill.

john boye · 10-11-2017 07:29PM

HSA regulations have reduced the capacity of most garages over the years. As an example, Harristown was built with a capacity of 240 buses (or 220 with 20 artics) but I believe it's much less now.

KD345 · 10-11-2017 08:15PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

I do sometimes wonder about that 44b route does it get any use at all for DB to go and buy 2 buses for a service that only runs a few times a day to what is effectively a tiny rural area. If you don't have a car I don't see why you'd buy a house in Glencullen tbh. Also would this service not be better fulfilled by a Local Link service rather than a CIE service.

You shouldn't judge a PSO service based on it's timetable. I have used the 44b occasionally and it usually carries a small handful of others - schoolchildren, hikers, workers and locals. Remember, it's not just a bus for Glencullen, it passes through Kilcross, Lambs Cross, Barnacullia. Granted, none of these are large areas, but are enough to sustain a low frequency peak service.

Routes like the 40B, 41B, 44B, 59, 185 etc are good examples of rural PSO services. They're not there to make profit or carry high loadings, but they keep small communities connected to amenities and other transport links. Personally, I think it is great to see Dublin Bus and NTA investing in two new vehicles to continue this service.

Stephen15 · 10-11-2017 11:31PM

KD345 wrote: »

You shouldn't judge a PSO service based on it's timetable. I have used the 44b occasionally and it usually carries a small handful of others - schoolchildren, hikers, workers and locals. Remember, it's not just a bus for Glencullen, it passes through Kilcross, Lambs Cross, Barnacullia. Granted, none of these are large areas, but are enough to sustain a low frequency peak service.

Routes like the 40B, 41B, 44B, 59, 185 etc are good examples of rural PSO services. They're not there to make profit or carry high loadings, but they keep small communities connected to amenities and other transport links. Personally, I think it is great to see Dublin Bus and NTA investing in two new vehicles to continue this service.

I get that yeah what I'm saying is that it seems like quite a lot of money to be spending on a specific bus type just to operate a route that doesn't get huge usage. The routes you mentioned above do not have their own special bus allocated to them. The 44b has to be operated by a smaller single decker bus as a regular DB double decker bus would not be able to fit on the roads around Glencullen, the smaller bus even struggles as is from what I believe.

It just seems like more hassle than it really is worth running a full DB bus service which has such low usage. I get the concept of a socially nessecary community service and not all DB services are profit makers but a service running with a bus that had to be specifically ordered to a very small area in the Dublin Mountains seems like a slight overkill in my opinion and I would imagine its not that viable.

I see in many rural areas of the country outside Dublin that rural transport schemes, Local Link being the best known example. Perhaps Glencullen and the rural areas that the 44b serves might be better served by a Local Link bus rather than a full DB service.

KD345 · 11-11-2017 03:21PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

I get that yeah what I'm saying is that it seems like quite a lot of money to be spending on a specific bus type just to operate a route that doesn't get huge usage. The routes you mentioned above do not have their own special bus allocated to them. The 44b has to be operated by a smaller single decker bus as a regular DB double decker bus would not be able to fit on the roads around Glencullen, the smaller bus even struggles as is from what I believe.

I don’t follow your logic. There’s nothing special about these buses being assigned to the 44B, every route has a number of buses specifically assigned to them (PVR). The buses on the 44B are Wright’s single deck midi buses. The buses on the 40b, 41b, 59, 161 etc are Wright’s double deckers. Are you saying if the 44B was assigned two brand new Wrights double deckers you’d be fine with this instead? The midi buses are much cheaper to purchase/operate than a double decker. I don’t see how having a low frequency bus service to Glencullen is any different to having a low frequency service to Rivermeade, Rockbrook or Rolestown.

Stephen15 wrote: »

It just seems like more hassle than it really is worth running a full DB bus service which has such low usage. I get the concept of a socially nessecary community service and not all DB services are profit makers but a service running with a bus that had to be specifically ordered to a very small area in the Dublin Mountains seems like a slight overkill in my opinion and I would imagine its not that viable.

It is not a ‘full Dublin Bus service’. There are 5 return services per day at peak times Monday to Friday. On one hand you say you understand the necessity of having the service, but then dismiss it because there is a different type of vehicle operating it.

I don’t think Local Link is a reasonable alternative. It’s a great service but falls short of what is currently provided by a timetabled bus service.

I quite like the fact that we are putting appropriate size buses on routes. It seems like this is something the NTA are rolling out further with more single deckers apparently in order.

Stephen15 · 11-11-2017 03:35PM

KD345 wrote: »

I don’t follow your logic. There’s nothing special about these buses being assigned to the 44B, every route has a number of buses specifically assigned to them (PVR). The buses on the 44B are Wright’s single deck midi buses. The buses on the 40b, 41b, 59, 161 etc are Wright’s double deckers. Are you saying if the 44B was assigned two brand new Wrights double deckers you’d be fine with this instead? The midi buses are much cheaper to purchase/operate than a double decker. I don’t see how having a low frequency bus service to Glencullen is any different to having a low frequency service to Rivermeade, Rockbrook or Rolestown.

It is not a ‘full Dublin Bus service’. There are 5 return services per day at peak times Monday to Friday. On one hand you say you understand the necessity of having the service, but then dismiss it because there is a different type of vehicle operating it.

I don’t think Local Link is a reasonable alternative. It’s a great service but falls short of what is currently provided by a timetabled bus service.

I quite like the fact that we are putting appropriate size buses on routes. It seems like this is something the NTA are rolling out further with more single deckers apparently in order.

What I am basically saying is that no other similar local route on the DB network 59, 111, 161 etc. gets its own allocated buses. They are usually only operated by 1 or 2 buses. This may change with introduction of the WS class but the WV class currently exclusively operate the 44B only ocassionally venturing onto other routes primarily the 59, 63 and 111.

Other local routes like the ones you mention are operated by buses which over many different routes usually only high usage, high frequency routes get allocations. What I'm basically is if there was no 44b route or if regular DDs could operate it then DB would not buy any single decker buses

If we had 50+ single deckers operating over a wide range of different routes like we once had then I'd say fair enough. BTW I'm all in for smaller buses to operate local routes. I don't knoe why DB withdraw almost all its single deckers in the first tbh.

Its not a case of DB buying single deckers as the route dosen't require double deckers it's a case that DB has to buy as double deckers would be unable to operate this route a the roads are too narrow for double decker service.

At the end of the day if the route was operated by a regular double decker it would be a lot cheaper to run than presently.

dfx- · 11-11-2017 09:16PM

If there were more WVs or similar single deckers, they'd be out all over the place like they used to be. The good thing right now is there's only one of them.

One would be on the 16 probably like it used to be on the 16A and 130 in the morning, totally incompatible routes for low capacity buses at peak morning services. Or the 123 or 150, I had a nightmare journey on one on the 46A of all places. This current Network Direct system cannot operate with single deckers.

I know it's a new bus and all that, but single deckers are not missed by passengers for very good reason...

punisher5112 · 11-11-2017 09:23PM

Reason they never replaced the wv was cost and servicing as it was better to have one type rather then many different.

Look at the 123 where it was all wv and it couldn't cope.

The wv was way too big for 44b.

The new one I heard is so different and has total different set up so not like any bus they have in the fleet.

Stephen15 · 11-11-2017 09:38PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Reason they never replaced the wv was cost and servicing as it was better to have one type rather then many different.

Look at the 123 where it was all wv and it couldn't cope.

The wv was way too big for 44b.

The new one I heard is so different and has total different set up so not like any bus they have in the fleet.

Yeah it was a bit riddiculous having them on the 123. The smaller single decker are grand for lesser used local routes like the 59, 63, 111, 161 etc.

MGWR · 12-11-2017 07:56AM

devnull wrote: »

GoAhead do not set the fares and they do not keep money from the fares, they are paid a set fee from the NTA and this is the model that Dublin Bus will be moving to in the near future as well.

The NTA does not make money. More tax revenue and borrowed money, then.

bk · 13-11-2017 11:14AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yeah it was a bit riddiculous having them on the 123. The smaller single decker are grand for lesser used local routes like the 59, 63, 111, 161 etc.

I'm all for the return of single deckers to routes that only need that at peak time, which I guess we will see a lot more of under BusConnects, with local feeder type services. But god I hope we don't see them back on the 123!

devnull · 20-11-2017 06:10PM

Go-Ahead have now launched their own twitter:
https://twitter.com/GoAheadDublin

Also said to be leasing office accommodation now and have recruited a number of administrative staff in the last few weeks.

Stephen15 · 20-11-2017 06:33PM

devnull wrote: »

Go-Ahead have now launched their own twitter:
https://twitter.com/GoAheadDublin

Also said to be leasing office accommodation now and have recruited a number of administrative staff in the last few weeks.

I hope thats just a promotional page and the NTA will have they're own twitter account up running for when GA start operating the routes so passengers won't be having to tweet both DB and GA for route info/complaints.

dublinman1990 · 15-12-2017 01:24AM

Go-Ahead have updated their careers page of their website to include vacancies for new bus drivers.

Bus Drivers Required

We will be recruiting bus drivers from May 2018 and we are looking forward to offering people an attractive and competitive salary of up to €32,000 per annum. We will be recruiting both existing and non-licence holders, with full training being provided for anyone who does not currently hold a PSV licence.

Anyone wishing to submit an expression of interest at this time should complete the form below or email careers@go-aheaddublin.ie and we will be in touch when we start actively recruiting during 2018.

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/careers/

15-12-2017 11:39AM

32k is ok but I doubt that would tempt any drivers to switch from dublin bus to go ahead. I would say the will struggle to get drivers from rival companies as established drivers say at aircoach or swords express for example won't move for that and may well end up training most of their new drivers and start them on 25k rising to 32k over a few years.

devnull · 15-12-2017 11:41AM

It's not said what the starting wage is, but bear in mind this is likely to be the core salary, not including any premiums and extras for example that as we know are pretty commonplace in the state companies.

The fact they are offering to train up new drivers however is a good sign.

end of the road · 15-12-2017 02:48PM

soundman45 wrote: »

32k is ok but I doubt that would tempt any drivers to switch from dublin bus to go ahead. I would say the will struggle to get drivers from rival companies as established drivers say at aircoach or swords express for example won't move for that and may well end up training most of their new drivers and start them on 25k rising to 32k over a few years.

agreed, the wage itself is unlikely to get people switching to go ahead from other companies. i guess it will depend on perks and other allowences if any that are offered.
however it's possible some starting out or wanting to get in to the industry might take up with them with an aim to eventually get into other companies. go ahead would give them the experience they need to get driving jobs elsewhere.
time will tell.

IE 222 · 16-12-2017 12:08AM

Have they sourced depots yet

Stephen15 · 16-12-2017 12:18AM

I wonder when GA do take over the routes will there be any bitterness towards the Go-Ahead drivers from DB drivers. I also see the possibility for DB drivers to blockade GA buses and depots should there be strike with unions not taking any responsibility for it similar to the wildcat strikes BE did on DB and IE earlier in the year.

end of the road · 16-12-2017 12:26AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder when GA do take over the routes will there be any bitterness towards the Go-Ahead drivers from DB drivers. I also see the possibility for DB drivers to blockade GA buses and depots should there be strike with unions not taking any responsibility for it similar to the wildcat strikes BE did on DB and IE earlier in the year.

neither will happen. go ahead isn't historically part of the 1 company like dublin bus, bus eireann and IE are so go ahead will just be like any other of the privates as far as the union and staff are concerned.

AlekSmart · 16-12-2017 11:22AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder when GA do take over the routes will there be any bitterness towards the Go-Ahead drivers from DB drivers. I also see the possibility for DB drivers to blockade GA buses and depots should there be strike with unions not taking any responsibility for it similar to the wildcat strikes BE did on DB and IE earlier in the year.

Why would you wonder this,Stephen 15 ?

You appear to be in battle mode,when the reality is far from that.

Some of the Go-Ahead drivers will be transferees from Bus Atha Cliath,and will be well known to them.

Some will be transferees from other current Private Sector operators,many of whom will struggle to cope with a large scale recruitment campaign,so soon after losing significant numbers to Bus Atha Cliath already.

The overall effect of the Busconnects plan,combined with the BMO proposals as currently agreed,all allow for the substantial INCREASE in Bus services,which will require substantial INCREASE in Busdriver numbers.

Quite why it is felt necessary now,when a full,legal negotiated agreement underpins the entire process,you would immediately choose to fly off into conjecture and stories of woebegone doom escapes me ?

It is perhaps a rather well regarded Irish trait,always to seek out the worst possible outcome in all things,and then beat a Lambeg Drum to alert everybody else,but,in this case there is nothing to support Stephen15's views that Dublin is preparing for an imminent re-run of the UK Miners Strike.:)

patrickbrophy18 · 16-12-2017 10:36PM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I saw one operating the 59 route yesterday. They are very smart looking.

I wonder what their length is. If I were to hazard a guess, I would put them at between 9 and 10 meters in length.

dfx- · 16-12-2017 10:54PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

The overall effect of the Busconnects plan,combined with the BMO proposals as currently agreed,all allow for the substantial INCREASE in Bus services,which will require substantial INCREASE in Busdriver numbers.

Do bus drivers grow on trees? Where are they going to get them? Didn't Dublin Bus exhaust the supply of D licence holders....

godtabh · 16-12-2017 10:57PM

IE 222 wrote: »

Have they sourced depots yet

check out the south dublin co co website

liger · 16-12-2017 11:29PM

godtabh wrote: »

check out the south dublin co co website

Care to share a link to a specific page?

AlekSmart · 16-12-2017 11:36PM

liger wrote: »

Care to share a link to a specific page?

http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=144&regref=SD17A/0428

Excellent Choice,the DHL compound in Ballymount,change of use and well suited to a rapid conversion.

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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