Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Infini · 13-12-2017 10:21PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

While I am glad that Alabama didn't elect a child molester, predator and am glad that Trump and Bannon have some egg on their faces I can't help but be somewhat disheartened that this was such a close election. Moreover it is appalling that notwithstanding his many failings, white people, men and women still voted overwhelmingly for him.

In fairness its a traditionally republican stronghold state so the fact that a Democrat actually WON the state is an incredible achievement of itself.
This is just the start I think the truth I would say alot of decent Americans who actually arent idiots are basically fed up with the Republican's carryon and will either stay home rather than vote for them while the Democrat's rally the minority and younger voter's to push through.

Could see the mid term elections next year turning into a republican's nightmare for them as their good ol President Troll is an easy target for the Dem's to use against them. President Troll only got in because truthfully it was the Dem voters who stayed at home at election time. Since he got in he's basically toxic enough to make people come out and vote in big numbers against him. Meanwhile more moderate republicans will stay away out of disgust.

Turnabout is fair play it seems.

Professor Moriarty · 13-12-2017 10:53PM

Noel82 wrote: »

It's comes back to Trump clearly, what he should have done was fire Comey Jan 20th. When Sessions recused himself he left himself open to the vultures. It doesn't refute the points I've made as to what was going on in the FBI and justice department prior to the election.

I'd love for someone to explain this text message where high ranking FBI officials are plotting on what to do with Trump, or why the FBI were paying a firm used by an Political opponent known for smear tactics to use that as a foundation to go and spy on associates of the other campaign.

https://twitter.com/BretBaier/status/940952690082885633

All of this is really small potatoes. Meaningless smoke and mirrors and look over there stuff. If that's Trump's lifeline, he's toast.

By the way, Rosenstein said today that he saw no reason to fire Mueller. Should Trump fire Rosenstein so?

mcmoustache · 13-12-2017 11:20PM

Noel82 wrote: »

wall of text

You're a bit naive if you think people who work in law enforcement shouldn't have a political affiliation. Remember that time you raised concerns about the new york field office in 2016? Me neither so please stop with the feigned outrage.

Mueller was appointed with good reason and is delivering results.

You're here repeating all sorts of links between people and getting outraged about them yet see nothing odd about all the Trump, Russia, Wikileaks and Mercer connections.

You're not someone who cares about the truth. You've just hitched your wagon to a conman and are creating your reality around it and at the same time expect people here to fall for the same con that you did.

mcmoustache · 13-12-2017 11:23PM

Noel82 wrote: »

It's comes back to Trump clearly, what he should have done was fire Comey Jan 20th. When Sessions recused himself he left himself open to the vultures. It doesn't refute the points I've made as to what was going on in the FBI and justice department prior to the election.

I'd love for someone to explain this text message where high ranking FBI officials are plotting on what to do with Trump, or why the FBI were paying a firm used by an Political opponent known for smear tactics to use that as a foundation to go and spy on associates of the other campaign.

https://twitter.com/BretBaier/status/940952690082885633

Most likely release the information about Trump's russian connections. Those were already being investigated. They went to Obama, Obama went to McConnell and he threatened to turn it into a partisan issue.

Unless of course, Alex Jones or Hannity have another interpretation of the events.

circadian · 13-12-2017 11:24PM

Anyone fuelling the conspiracy theories about Mueller being some Democrat in place to discredit Trump need from take a good long look at both themselves and the Trump administration.

I'm sure Mueller is well for it but the tripe coming out from the likes of Fox, Breitbart and even the President himself. It's an absolute disgrace that a man that has spent his career working for his country, by the book and with outstanding integrity can be seen as a fair target by those who continue to sink to new lows.

Mueller is a Republican. He is universally highly regarded, except for the Trump administration. Which of course is cooperating, since there's nothing to hide. So why the attacks on Mueller, the investigation and the FBI?

I can smell something, and it isn't pleasant.

aloyisious · 13-12-2017 11:52PM

@Noel82: In fairness, the AG is a political appointee of the President, as is his assistant. The AG is the boss of the FBI Director so there is no escaping the politicizing of the FBI senior levels.

Now, separately on the issue of the Alabama election race result and the turnout from one quarter supporting Mr James, I'm wondering if Don's treatment of the basketball players may have factored into the result. I can't locate the name of the former player who asked people to vote for Mr James and who's appeared on tv news telling the Dem party to pull it's finger out

C14N · 14-12-2017 12:09AM

aloyisious wrote: »

Yeah, John McCain.

I know, he was in the hospital, but that was still something that couldn't be predicted and doesn't happen too often. He also made it back to the Senate in time to vote against the Obamacare repeal.

rossie1977 wrote: »

Nearly two times as many white women voted for Moore despite all the allegations against him. It's pretty clear now that all the time spent trying to shame these candidates by the media and Democratic party simply isn't working. In fact it's a complete waste of time it looks like.

I completely disagree. You aren't going to shame them into voting Democrat, but I do absolutely think you can shame them into staying at home or voting for a write-in, as many did in this election. I should note that the word "shame" sounds very conniving and manipulative here, but the truth is that there are some things you should be ashamed of doing, and voting for someone like Moore is probably one of them.

pitifulgod wrote: »

The desperation to smear Mueller is a good indication that feathers are being ruffled.

I don't understand these attempts at all. Even Nixon had enough sense to publicly praise the investigation, because openly complaining about the person investigating you makes you look exceedingly guilty. Why would you worry if there's nothing bad to be found? I could understand it maybe if Mueller was constantly blabbing to the press and making Trump look like a criminal, but he seems quite good at keeping quiet and minimising leaks.

Even the claims of "the investigation is all Clinton supporters" is a pretty weak one if it were even true. A prosecution or investigation is supposed to be trying to find everything possible about the defendant, they aren't supposed to go soft of them and give them the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, when they make their case, they still have to do it by following procedure and using real evidence. Nobody is going to be convicted just because the prosecution really didn't like the person they were prosecuting.

Mueller is quite frankly Trump's best chance to have his name cleared if he is innocent, because if he finds nothing, we will all know (well most of us at least) that there just wasn't anything there. As a supposedly innocent person, he should be singing his praises and talking about how much he's looking forward to him presenting his findings.

Christy42 · 14-12-2017 12:16AM

C14N wrote: »

I know, he was in the hospital, but that was still something that couldn't be predicted and doesn't happen too often. He also made it back to the Senate in time to vote against the Obamacare repeal.

I completely disagree. You aren't going to shame them into voting Democrat, but I do absolutely think you can shame them into staying at home or voting for a write-in, as many did in this election. I should note that the word "shame" sounds very conniving and manipulative here, but the truth is that there are some things you should be ashamed of doing, and voting for someone like Moore is probably one of them.

I don't understand these attempts at all. Even Nixon had enough sense to publicly praise the investigation, because openly complaining about the person investigating you makes you look exceedingly guilty. Why would you worry if there's nothing bad to be found? I could understand it maybe if Mueller was constantly blabbing to the press and making Trump look like a criminal, but he seems quite good at keeping quiet and minimising leaks.

Even the claims of "the investigation is all Clinton supporters" is a pretty weak one if it were even true. A prosecution or investigation is supposed to be trying to find everything possible about the defendant, they aren't supposed to go soft of them and give them the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, when they make their case, they still have to do it by following procedure and using real evidence. Nobody is going to be convicted just because the prosecution really didn't like the person they were prosecuting.

Mueller is quite frankly Trump's best chance to have his name cleared if he is innocent, because if he finds nothing, we will all know (well most of us at least) that there just wasn't anything there. As a supposedly innocent person, he should be singing his praises and talking about how much he's looking forward to him presenting his findings.

Nixon failed. IF you can discredit the investigation then you can have it slowly replaced and all work done so far thrown away. This can take a while and these investigations normally take time. If he manages to fire Mueller without serious political blow back I expect him to finish out whatever terms he is voted in for before investigations complete.

Itssoeasy · 14-12-2017 12:22AM

aloyisious wrote: »

@Noel82: In fairness, the AG is a political appointee of the President, as is his assistant. The AG is the boss of the FBI Director so there is no escaping the politicizing of the FBI senior levels.

Now, separately on the issue of the Alabama election race result and the turnout from one quarter supporting Mr James, I'm wondering if Don's treatment of the basketball players may have factored into the result. I can't locate the name of the former player who asked people to vote for Mr James and who's appeared on tv news tellig the Dem party to pull it's finger out

Charles Barkley is the basketball players name. I think it's insane that republicans are calling into question the credentials of Robert mueller. The guy was extended in his role as FBI director which has never happened since J Edgar Hoover died. The guy has been FBI director, acting AG briefly, served in Vietnam and was awarded a bronze heart, Purple Heart amongst others.

C14N · 14-12-2017 12:26AM

Christy42 wrote: »

Nixon failed. IF you can discredit the investigation then you can have it slowly replaced and all work done so far thrown away. This can take a while and these investigations normally take time. If he manages to fire Mueller without serious political blow back I expect him to finish out whatever terms he is voted in for before investigations complete.

Nixon failed because he was guilty, and changing his tune to try and cover his tracks by firing the person investigating him contributed to the heat around him, and Nixon was a substantially more successful and popular president than Trump. Firing his investigator caused the public to finally favour his impeachment for the first time. 538 actually has historical polling from the time and within about 6 months of him firing Cox, his approval continuously dropped from about 70% (where it had been growing up to for a long time up to that point) down to about 25%.

He obviously was initially confident enough that they wouldn't find anything on him, but I can't say the same for Trump or his buddies. I'm not saying they're necessarily guilty, but they're behaving in a way consistent with somebody who is and who expects to be caught.

Christy42 · 14-12-2017 12:29AM

C14N wrote: »

Nixon failed because he was guilty, and changing his tune to try and cover his tracks by firing the person investigating him contributed to the heat around him, and Nixon was a substantially more successful and popular president than Trump. Firing his investigator caused the public to finally favour his impeachment for the first time.

He obviously was initially confident enough that they wouldn't find anything on him, but I can't say the same for Trump or his buddies. I'm not saying they're necessarily guilty, but they're behaving in a way consistent with somebody who is and who expects to be caught.

Yeah. My thoughts were on how this discrediting strategy might work and why it would be a good idea if they were guilty. If they are not it is a very risky strategy.

aloyisious · 14-12-2017 12:48AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Charles Barkley is the basketball players name. I think it's insane that republicans are calling into question the credentials of Robert mueller. The guy was extended in his role as FBI director which has never happened since J Edgar Hoover died. The guy has been FBI director, acting AG briefly, served in Vietnam and was awarded a bronze heart, Purple Heart amongst others.

Attack is the line of defence for some and lying to a admiring audience is in line with "tell a lie often enough and people will believe it" dumb them down by repitition. The truth doesn't matter anymore, especially to people consumed with lying.

L1011 · 14-12-2017 01:25AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Also I know Roy Moore hasn't conceded but a concession isn't a legal requirement as far as I know. So Roy Moore can not concede all he wants it doesn't mean anything legally.

He hasn't had much concern for consent in the past...

jooksavage · 14-12-2017 07:36AM

Wow Moore is determined to brazen this out and is stubbornly refusing to concede. Also managed to work in the word "sodomy" into his creepy non-concession statement. Always with the sodomy. Frued would have a field day.

circadian · 14-12-2017 09:15AM

jooksavage wrote: »

Wow Moore is determined to brazen this out and is stubbornly refusing to concede. Also managed to work in the word "sodomy" into his creepy non-concession statement. Always with the sodomy. Frued would have a field day.

It's strange how someone who is fixated with what other men do with their junk is so against it.

Billy86 · 14-12-2017 11:17AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's an interesting point you make about Mueller. Tell me, who appointed Mueller? And who appointed the man who appointed Mueller?

And by 'hired in strange circumstances' is he referring to the strange circumstance where Mueller's boss had to recuse himself from the investigation after lying about it, or was it his bosses boss firing Mueller's predecessor for investigating his ties with Russia?

Billy86 · 14-12-2017 11:24AM

mcmoustache wrote: »

You're a bit naive if you think people who work in law enforcement shouldn't have a political affiliation. Remember that time you raised concerns about the new york field office in 2016? Me neither so please stop with the feigned outrage.

Actually, they do - Mueller and Comey are both Republicans. They don't let it get in the way of them doing their jobs though, yet with how indoctrinated the remaining Trumpeteers are at this point into point blank trying to defend Trump on everything no matter what (even though their 'defense' is typically "hey look over here!"), they simply seem unable to comprehend that others might put their country before their political party/false idol.

Billy86 · 14-12-2017 11:52AM

jooksavage wrote: »

Wow Moore is determined to brazen this out and is stubbornly refusing to concede. Also managed to work in the word "sodomy" into his creepy non-concession statement. Always with the sodomy. Frued would have a field day.

In Roy Moore related news, a Republican Kentucky state Senator (that is, a member of the Kentucky state senate - not a national senator from KY) and who loved some of the old racism, killed himself yesterday while under investigation for molesting children.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dan-johnson-dead-sexual-harassment-allegations-suicide-republicans-kentucky-state-representative-a8109031.html

Dan Johnson, a Republican state lawmaker in Kentucky who defiantly denied allegations that he sexually assaulted a teenage girl in the basement of his home, died in an apparent suicide on Wednesday night, the county coroner said. He was 57.

Bullitt County Coroner Dave Billings said Johnson died of a single gunshot wound on Greenwell Ford Road in Mount Washington, Kentucky. Billings said Johnson stopped his car at the end of a bridge in a secluded area, then got out and walked to the front of the car. He said an autopsy is scheduled for Thursday morning.

“I would say it is probably suicide,” he said.

Johnson was elected to the state legislature in 2016, part of a wave of Republican victories that gave the GOP control of the Kentucky House of Representatives for the first time in nearly 100 years. He won his election despite Republican leaders urging him to drop out of the race after local media reported on some of his Facebook posts comparing Barack and Michelle Obama to monkeys.

mcmoustache · 14-12-2017 12:26PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Actually, they do - Mueller and Comey are both Republicans. They don't let it get in the way of them doing their jobs though, yet with how indoctrinated the remaining Trumpeteers are at this point into point blank trying to defend Trump on everything no matter what (even though their 'defense' is typically "hey look over here!"), they simply seem unable to comprehend that others might put their country before their political party/false idol.

The Trumper republicans have jumped on this like it's a major revelation and their minions, lacking any critical thinking skills, have lapped it up.

Practically everyone in law enforcement has a political affiliation in the states. It's almost inevitable in a 2-party system. Some make donations to their party of choice. It's been going on for years and really isn't a big deal.

This newly found fake outrage is exactly that. The republicans and talking heads at Fox know this but their MAGA minions don't and they're exploiting them to the fullest. This is all just for show. They're just trying to prepare their marks for the inevitable firing.

aloyisious · 14-12-2017 02:04PM

I'm not sure if this is pure chutzpah or Vlad doing a wind-up but his speech is amusing.....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/trump-accusations-have-hurt-us-politics-says-vladimir-putin-818676.html

Igotadose · 14-12-2017 02:18PM

Not specifically Trump related, though it mentions the tax plan. A nice detailed piece by Huffpo on just how bad Millenials have it in the US and how their prospects aren't any good. IMO the story's the same worldwide, though it seems to me there is more of a safety net in the EU countries. A lot of good data on today's prospects vs. a generation ago

http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials/

Warning: lots of imbedded blinky things and animations, might be slow to read through.

spacecoyote · 14-12-2017 04:19PM

https://twitter.com/theforcefuI/status/940927160017195008

Hande hoche! · 14-12-2017 06:09PM

Seems like the push in January will be for infrastructure by Trump and co. The senate numbers will presumably mean a greater need for bipartisanship.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/07/trump-will-start-infrastructure-push-in-january-white-house-officials-say.html

Gbear · 14-12-2017 06:14PM

Sam Harris seems to ruffle a few feathers on the left because he utterly rejects identity politics but I've been enjoying his podcasts of late.

I don't agree with everything he says but he loathes Trump with a fervor and has had some excellent podcasts with guests from both sides of the political aisle in the US (including 1 or 2 Trumpers, although I've heard the quality of those guests is poor, as you would expect from someone trying to defend the indefensible).

His latest one is with Tom Nichols - a lifelong Republican academic, analyst and advisor who's written a book called the Death of Expertise, and it covers the anti-intellectualism and populism that's propelled Trump (and it briefs mentions Brexit as well) into the white house and more broadly, that has infected the Republican party.

There's a few more in there from various people but if you have a gander through them the Trump-focused ones stand out by their names ("The Russia Connection", "We're All Cucks Now", "The Most Powerful Clown", etc).

Well worth a listen IMO,as is the podcast generally.

It's refreshing to be reminded that not all media has to be intellectually bankrupt whether you agree with it or not, that you can have debate and avoid echo chambers without resorting to pure namecalling and that people from different arbitrary groupings don't have to close off all communications because it'd be tantamount to giving succour to the enemy.

Edit: The URL-> https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/defending-the-experts

Water John · 14-12-2017 06:49PM

The leader of Britain First, Paul Golding is arrested. Perhaps Trump will put up the bail money.
http://www.thejournal.ie/british-leader-paul-golding-donald-trump-retweet-3751023-Dec2017/

BabyCheeses · 14-12-2017 06:52PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

The Trumper republicans have jumped on this like it's a major revelation and their minions, lacking any critical thinking skills, have lapped it up.

Practically everyone in law enforcement has a political affiliation in the states. It's almost inevitable in a 2-party system. Some make donations to their party of choice. It's been going on for years and really isn't a big deal.

This newly found fake outrage is exactly that. The republicans and talking heads at Fox know this but their MAGA minions don't and they're exploiting them to the fullest. This is all just for show. They're just trying to prepare their marks for the inevitable firing.

Weren't his supporters even boasting that an ICE, police union or something like that endorsed Trump?

Trump even pardoned one of them!

jobbridge4life · 14-12-2017 07:31PM

There goes net neutrality. America is such a dismal place.

mcmoustache · 14-12-2017 07:44PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

There goes net neutrality. America is such a dismal place.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with this. Imagine the outcry when ISPs start charging extra for Porn.

mcmoustache · 14-12-2017 08:00PM

I just had a look over at the_donald. They're strangely enough all for the removal of net neutrality. Here's a few of their submission titles:

Based regulation slayer Ajit Pai TROLLS THE **** out of snowflake Soros NN shills. ****posting has become an art form! TENDIES EVERYWHERE!

The battle for Net Neutrality is over! The companies that spent hundreds of millions shilling to trick the public into supporting their agenda have LOST! Just like magic all the hysteria will disappear.

While I'm there, the subject of the FBI is trending there too. Expect to see the same nonsense here soon.

FBI: NOW TARNISHED AND STAINED FROM THE PAST 8 (NOW 9) YEARS. I FEEL BAD FOR THE MANY THOUSANDS OF HARD WORKING REAL AMERICAN PATRIOTS OF THE FBI WHO ARRIVE AT WORK EACH DAY JUST SHAKING THEIR HEADS. WTF HAPPENED?

As evidence mounts of a ****in' Conspiracy by Obama the Kenyan and the FBI to Commit a Goddamn Coup D'Etat on US soil, here's another reminder of what the Great Clint Eastwood Warned: "One day we will realize that the Obama presidency was the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American People"

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government. We're going to start hearing a lot about this statute.

BUFFOON STRZOK (TRUMP CURSE STRIKES AGAIN): Imagine. Fake news described him as the best counter intelligence officer in the FBI. Cross between SHERLOCK HOLMES, 007, AND THE BATMAN. SUPPOSE TO BE A REAL GUM-SHOE. IN REALITY, A POLITICAL HACK NOW WITH A DISGRACED CAREER AND FAMILY. TRUMP CURSE.

If the people who post this stuff are real, they're insane and need help.

Captain Obvious · 14-12-2017 08:02PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

I just had a look over at the_donald. They're strangely enough all for the removal of net neutrality. Here's a few of their submission titles:

While I'm there, the subject of the FBI is trending there too. Expect to see the same nonsense here soon.

If the people who post this stuff are real, they're insane and need help.

They're having trouble agreeing on their positions now. Net Neutrality and the Alabama election have split the bots in two.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

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